Immigration Bureau told to be flexible with 'visa runners'

[ukrules]

So, the stupidity of the 'crack down' has become apparrent: pissed of hotelliers and tourist workers, Thai schools, $, and immig coppers absent tips. So now, after months of uncertainty and wasted effort, we will slowly drift back to the former, informal system? Great. Good job.

The people at the top making all of these decisions literally have no idea what they are doing, anybody with a logical and functioning brain could see the results of the rules and reinforced laws that were put in place. It begs belief how they even got to their positions in the first place

if you are a teacher then relax - if you are not then you are still shafted

Not a teacher, quite the opposite I study Thai. I'm leaving this place in a couple of months anyway considering how things have become, there's better places close by

If they make it hard to stay in Thailand then there's no real reason to learn Thai in the first place. Why bother learning at all if you have to go straight home after learning it.

[surfinglife]

So all the criminals on the run can relax again....business as usual...

[smedly]

So, the stupidity of the 'crack down' has become apparrent: pissed of hotelliers and tourist workers, Thai schools, $, and immig coppers absent tips. So now, after months of uncertainty and wasted effort, we will slowly drift back to the former, informal system? Great. Good job.

The people at the top making all of these decisions literally have no idea what they are doing, anybody with a logical and functioning brain could see the results of the rules and reinforced laws that were put in place. It begs belief how they even got to their positions in the first place

if you are a teacher then relax - if you are not then you are still shafted

Not a teacher, quite the opposite I study Thai. I'm leaving this place in a couple of months anyway considering how things have become, there's better places close by

The problem is that there are people who claim they have been learning Thai for years and can just about manage to say hello

[ScotBkk]

Feels like this topic has been dogged to death now....... time to get out of this virtual place and face reality with a nice pint of LAGER .......... Might bump into some Teachers and can resume this sorry saga

Cheers !!

[cacruden]

Not a teacher, quite the opposite I study Thai. I'm leaving this place in a couple of months anyway considering how things have become, there's better places close by

The problem is that there are people who claim they have been learning Thai for years and can just about manage to say hello

Quickest way to solve that problem is to allow for private schools but after a "year's" worth of lessons you have to take a public exam at a qualified testing centre. This is then marked on your immigration record and is used as the basis of your renewal.

[easyas]

S... me Sherlock fancy, by screwing down hard on teachers doing boarder runs you run short of English teachers. Up side the ones here might now be in greater demand and Demand = more money Happy happy oh happy days.

How about learning how to spell - "boarder"!

[davidstipek]

you claiming visa runners and overstayers dont have accidents? what I was referring to was the claim made above, to wit: : " Here in Thailand there is no system to milk" and I simply provided evidence of a system that is milked: The health care system.

In my humble understanding, and referring to the article that you provided, the public health system seems to be milked mainly by a majority of 'genuine tourists' without a health insurance, as well as the increasing number of retirees, no one blames overstayers (who are btw. not at all part of the original thread) and visa runners (the original thread is all about) for being a burden to Thailand by milking the public health system!

Anyway, this entire discussion on the visa situation is gone crazy, a fact is that there is no proper visa available to help a growing number of GOOD and contributing people to help them staying legally in Thailand, longer than the max. of 180 days, in a row. That is the main, real issue here and inspecting visa runners more individually will not solve anything. Period!

nowhere did i claim to know which class of farang was milking the system more than any other. I merely pointed out there was a system available for milking. it was you who jumped to conclusions. and does your home country allow just anyone to decide they are good and contributing folks and just come and stay permanently?

Land of the FREE FREE FREE

Our COUNTRY does …. The UK, which is practically open to anyone wanting an easy system with benefits thrown in – free health system and much more free assistances for all and sundry.. hence the reason people leave in their droves …………

Like I said before... 80% of the Thai who go to America... stay (Illegally!!)! Disappear and never return to Thailand... Do they think they are good folks and deserve to stay? I can't read minds... But like Baseball 3 strikes and you are out... "Strike 1 !!!!"

Edited August 23, 2014 by davidstipek

[belg]

oh no, no english teachers on illegal visa's, what a disaster for all the schools ...

why not make the rules a bit more easy for people wanting to teach or even to volenteer , the ones with aready legal "long-stay" visa's here but not working ATM

[2fishin2]

Why do all the white people expect, demand, want Thailand to bend over and let anybody into the country for any reason??? I'm extremely befuddled at this attitude. Why in the hell do you think your are entitled to anything in this country? Its not your country its theirs and you are a GUEST. You get the square root of zero say-so in the matter, quit your GD bitching and whining all the time. Do your home countries allow foreigners in your country as easy as here? NO! Most of the time you people make me sick with expecting Thailand to bend over to your foreign desires. Give it a faaking break.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[davidstipek]

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

If I would have the power to change, well then Be It! i did not made the rules...and the political faults, stupid rules and some outdated laws of the country I have been born and lived in, and that is just one of the many reasons why I did not wanted to live there and contribute to and left many years ago, at a quite young age and ever since have lived and contributing to other countries... and continue doing so over the last 10 years in Thailand...

???? Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

????

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

????

Before you spout off!!! Know your facts!!!! You think Thai go to Western Countries and need to do alot of Paperwork??? Maybe it because 80% of them disappear after Visa is expired and stay illegally it what ever Country they are in. This is a Fact! Want a List? Better yet just take my word for it! I do not want to be visited by some Fat, Drunk, Hitman elects Wanta-be's.

We have no trouble completing the stacks of paperwork and verifying "Loads of money" in the Bank (Seems like Thailand is assigning some one to try and Siphon if they can while we are here) Even to stay here, we have to do over and over again. If we are retired we need to do this every 90 days! Thai in Foreign Country subject to this??? No! Do they need to retain massive funds in a Bank Account to stay there?? No!

Working in one direction, Democracy?? I think your compass is faulty, or you holding 180 degrees wrong!! What normal Thai goes as example US/EU and has 800 thousand plus baht in Bank? and retains it? Are they even asked to show proof every year that it still available??? No (Because, contrary to what Thai Face shows, They would spend it! New Car, Lease, Rental, Spouse sponsered Bank Loan. Same with House, Business usually if they plan to stay illegaly in someone elses name...

Now don't missunderstand me... I love Thailand! All my Thai Friends love and protect me as I do them. If they need money or anything else and I can provide... They get without any need to repay! I think of it as a Gift! Those of you who have known me for years understand my reasoning here on this, I my whole life I could not repay....

So before you drag any Western Countries to the toilet to harass them... Get your words correct!!! You think Thai only one to have Face? "Boy... are you in Dark Ages!!!!"

are you saying anyone can just decide they want to retire in america and show up and get a visa?

I am saying that 80% of those who get Visa to visit, never return to Thailand, I have lisits from Many West Coast Temples.... I will keep private!!! that are families who asked for help... Medial...housing...SSI number... etc. Many I could not help... some we could. But it is a farse they No way does anyone check entry and exits to match.... Get the picture??

[davidstipek]

Good news! I knew this wouldn't come to anything.

Good news for illegally working English teachers, you mean?

Like I said before, Thailand does not want or need anymore western dropout who come here to teach.

Sure they may lose a few good teachers who had no degree but not many. Most with no degree are not as great as they think they are. There are good and bad teachers with and without degrees, but you need to have a minimum of qualifications.

The teachers I met always running to the border will be of no loss.

You make your speech with so much Clarity as if your the mouthpiece for the entire Teachng profession..... tell me where you get ALL your inside information to predict the outcome for Thailand ...... If ALL you say is bona-fide ship shape and correct ...

We might be anytime seeing another FARANG running the country ... namely: YOU ............

Scott... Did you ever get your Bike??

[Chiangmai1]

IF this is serious it means, they will kinda register the runners and let them stay (probably with limits)

They did similarly with illegal cambodians. They first cracked down, but then allowed them back and WORKING!. but they got to register somehow (not familiar with the details).

This is Thailand. Procedure and law is not an issue. If they want to allow, then mai pai rai, no problem, forget the letter of the law.

Many responders here seem to be stuck in farang technicalities. No offence it is just different here.....

[Soi Sauce]

Best teachers anyone on has had are their Mothers and Fathers.

Did they have degrees in parenthhod< or did you reject them because they did not?

[alanrchase]

After 35 pages of posts about a very ambiguous report my only conclusion is that Thailand's immigration policy should be based on what English language teachers require. No offence to people that probably try to do a good job under bad circumstances but surely it has more to do than that?

[Gutterboy]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

That would be a good idea if only the process for getting a work permit wasn't so ridiculously complicated and expensive! Maybe an overhaul of the whole system followed by such an enforcement would be a better solution.

Getting a work permit is not difficult nor expensive. The reason schools don't get work permits is one of two reasons, either they don't qualify or they don't want to pay the taxes on the teachers salary. Schools give excuses it's expensive and difficult. More or less the teachers are working under the table and no taxes are being paid. The cost for a work permit is a little less than 3000B.

True that the fees for work permit are 3,000 B, and true that some places are concerned with dodging taxes, but the costs and difficulties associated with this ridiculous system are huge indeed. I'm not making it up: I have just received my own work permit and the total cost was close to 40,000 B, and that figure does not take into account all the time, hassle and stress involved!

[JesseFrank]

Getting a work permit is not difficult nor expensive. The reason schools don't get work permits is one of two reasons, either they don't qualify or they don't want to pay the taxes on the teachers salary. Schools give excuses it's expensive and difficult. More or less the teachers are working under the table and no taxes are being paid. The cost for a work permit is a little less than 3000B.

True that the fees for work permit are 3,000 B, and true that some places are concerned with dodging taxes, but the costs and difficulties associated with this ridiculous system are huge indeed. I'm not making it up: I have just received my own work permit and the total cost was close to 40,000 B, and that figure does not take into account all the time, hassle and stress involved!

Please elaborate why a WP that is supposed to cost 3000 Baht at once cost 40.000 Baht.

[Jokke66]

As I can see that it will probably be a great thing for a native english to teach for a year in Thailand, I think its also great that they doesnt get permanent visa's to easily.

A young westerner should not work in Thailand for a long time if they do not receieve a decent pension saving plan (it should probably be worth twice the salary)

Age sneak up on people faster then they think, and westerners should realy work in theyre homecountries, or countries that have pension plans!!

Sure a stay in south east asia is interresting and fun, but dont forget your pension plans young guys and girls!

[easybullet3]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Good news! I knew this wouldn't come to anything.

actually no you didn't, like everyone else you made a guess.........and by chance the result has coincided with your guess.

don't confuse co-incidence with good reasoning.

Why r u so critical of j8k when the gist of what he says is correct? It is not coincidence but quite logical given the way things happen in Thailand. But I would have said: 'I thought' not 'I knew'.

its fairly typical of thai government (or people in power) to make a new rule and then go back on it later.

they kind of do something without thinking it through!! kind of like an ex gf of mine!! make a terrible decision (without giving it any thought) and then going back on their words later !

this is fairly typical of some people out here.

i would expect MORE thought process into decisions from the "apparently educated" MAIN GOVERNMENT !!

just look at ANY new piece of immigration legislation,, and it NEVER gives the FULL info. it just gives a general idea.. but NEVER covers the in's and out's.

they are so awful here at making rules.

Kind of like "Lord of the Flies".. (kids trying to come up with rules).

[SaamBaht]

We're cracking down on visa runners--well no.

[ericthai]

Getting a work permit is not difficult nor expensive. The reason schools don't get work permits is one of two reasons, either they don't qualify or they don't want to pay the taxes on the teachers salary. Schools give excuses it's expensive and difficult. More or less the teachers are working under the table and no taxes are being paid. The cost for a work permit is a little less than 3000B.

True that the fees for work permit are 3,000 B, and true that some places are concerned with dodging taxes, but the costs and difficulties associated with this ridiculous system are huge indeed. I'm not making it up: I have just received my own work permit and the total cost was close to 40,000 B, and that figure does not take into account all the time, hassle and stress involved!

Why did it cost you 40,000B? Did you pay someone to get it for you? Your company is suppose to pay the fees for it. Dont know why it cost you 40K my staff have been taking care of mine for years and the cost is 2700B. To get the WP you need to have you B visa which you need to show you paid your taxes.

[Rumpole]

And that's the whole point of the discussion. Teachers who are good at what they do and are passionate and have experience should get the visas and work permits.

Get rid of the ones who aren't good whether they meet the degree requirements or not.

The only fly in this ointment is that the majority of Thais, including so-called educators and particularly educational administrators, are pretty much incapable of recognizing a "good" teacher, even when one jumps up and bites them on the derrière. Foreign teachers who are proficient at brown-nosing and/or indulging the national penchant for edutainment and lackadaisical standards, will likely be retained over those who actually know what they are doing.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Rumpole

[paz]

.. national penchant for edutainment and lackadaisical standards...

Fantastic, after "sexpats" we've got here the new novel concealed Thai teacher hate word.. "edutainment". Making a new word out of two sounds so 90ish, thank you for giving me a good laugh today!

[Jools]

I've never understood the requirement for a police report. No convicted felon can travel internationally since their passport would be cancelled immediately upon conviction. Thoughts?

[AYJAYDEE]

I've never understood the requirement for a police report. No convicted felon can travel internationally since their passport would be cancelled immediately upon conviction. Thoughts?

who told you that?

[Schimi]

Hello, I am retired not looking for work in Thailand, trying to spend winters somewhere warm by the beach, and spending my Money to keep the Thai economy going.

Thailand is the only place with those annoying Visa Runs, I can get a 5 months Thai Visa right here in Canada, why border runs ?

Might have to spend my Money somewhere else, Schimi

Edited August 24, 2014 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal.

[ukrules]

I've never understood the requirement for a police report. No convicted felon can travel internationally since their passport would be cancelled immediately upon conviction. Thoughts?

I believe they only do that in the US.

[BKKSnowBird]

I've never understood the requirement for a police report. No convicted felon can travel internationally since their passport would be cancelled immediately upon conviction. Thoughts?

Not true. Where are you from? I bet there are many wanted fugitives in Thailand.

I think all teachers should have a police check. I got one before I came to Thailand to teach but was never asked for it.

[BKKSnowBird]

I've never understood the requirement for a police report. No convicted felon can travel internationally since their passport would be cancelled immediately upon conviction. Thoughts?

I believe they only do that in the US.

No. They would only take your passport if you were out on bail waiting for trial and expected to be a flight risk. Very rare.

[paz]

Hello, I am retired not looking for work in Thailand, trying to spend winters somewhere warm by the beach, and spending my Money to keep the Thai economy going.

Thailand is the only place with those annoying Visa Runs, I can get a 5 months Thai Visa right here in Canada, why border runs ?

Might have to spend my Money somewhere else, Schimi

Right on dude, we'll miss your smoking and and 5 months game changing money.

[In Search of Space]

After 12 years here, I feel in addition to the slogan "Land of Smiles", we should add the slogan "Land of Announcements".

The land of crackdowns