Retirees, are you worried that the rules might change?

[smedly]

I see no point in this thread

[Eneukman]

Not worried at all about any changes to requirements for extensions based on retirement. A small increase in the funds required wouldn't hurt though a large increase might but probably only in the first year that it was implemented.

Alan

[Bernard Flint]

Ubonjoe, I am optimistic but also realistic. I am not talking about possible changes to the visa rules in the next year or so, but perhaps 20 years in the future, and none of us can know what will happen.

But based on the history of 'retirement' visas, and the general rules regarding issue of visas to foreigners, do you really think it is likely that there will be no changes to the rules, or that the requirements will be eased?

IMHO,, I do not think for 1 second that the visa rules will remain unchanged or will be eased.in the future. The logical assumption is that they will be made stricter, to what degree or how is unknown.

I can understand your concerns, especialy with a new PM, who wants to impress, but i do think that Thailand prefers old uns like me

In 2 years i will be 65, so i only have to show my government pension, and nothing else, a bit silly, i know,so i will not need an extension for retirement, and show 800,000 baht

[jpinx]

The only thing I can imagine them introducing is some kind of compulsory health care insurance. The current government has already tried to tighten other aspects of immigration rules only to relax them again as soon as they actually realised what they were doing and it was hurting. Retirees might not be a huge source of revenue for Thailand, but it's a steady earner and no hassle for them.

[nicolas18]

I personally think Thailand should require from all retirees proof of income of at least 65,000 baht/month (which is about 800,000 baht/year) and get rid of the 800,000 baht in a bank account rule. Right now, there are way too many people on a tiny pension who choose to live here and do not significantly contribute to the economy.

[Suradit69]

Ubonjoe, I am optimistic but also realistic. I am not talking about possible changes to the visa rules in the next year or so, but perhaps 20 years in the future, and none of us can know what will happen.

But based on the history of 'retirement' visas, and the general rules regarding issue of visas to foreigners, do you really think it is likely that there will be no changes to the rules, or that the requirements will be eased?

IMHO,, I do not think for 1 second that the visa rules will remain unchanged or will be eased.in the future. The logical assumption is that they will be made stricter, to what degree or how is unknown.

"But based on the history of 'retirement' visas, and the general rules regarding issue of visas to foreigners ..."

Presumably you are speaking of extensions of stay based on retirement since no sensible person would expect to stay here in retirement by getting a series of visas and those attempting to do that using tourist visas or visa exempt entries were not following the path for retirees but gaming the system.

Care to share your "history" of retirement visas ... um, I mean extensions of stay? Aside from a few tweaks regarding such things as seasoning of money in the bank brought about by retirees playing games with their bank balances, what historical cataclysms are your speaking of?

I am optimistic but also realistic.

Imagining ghosts in the shadows is not being realistic. It's being paranoid.

[grantbkk]

For me the answer no I'm not worried. I received my Retirement Visa (O-A) in Los Angeles in 2003 and have no problem qualifying for the extension every year based on the Baht 800K in the bank for the 90 days prior to "the process". I spend down the money after my extension is issued and never had a problem with the bank or immigration. Now that I'm 65 this year has begun to feel different. I try to reduce all stress as much as possible and now I've been considering the "PE" visa through Thai Elite that simply reduces the trip to Bangkok immigration every year. I realize that I have the time and ability to do what I do every year but for a moderate amount of cash I can eliminate all thought about this visa stuff for half a decade. I would use the car trips to the airport and the multi-entry feature often as well as the convenience of fast track at the airports here. I have a month to decide but I'm leaning towards biting the bullet and buying the visa.

Everyone should have a Plan B. The politics, a wave of Ebola, crackdowns, unforeseen hearth problems, wanderlust, angry spouse or girlfriend are just a few of the reasons you may have or want to move from the Land of Smiles. Right now I have no intention of leaving but I do have a Plan B that changes from year to year as I constantly reassess my circumstances. I can probably adjust to anything the government throws at me but I am in a position to do the talking with my feet if I'm pushed too far.

[crazykopite]

This is Thailand anything goes do I worry yes and that is every time I renew my extension of stay once I have the new one it is forgotten for another year. What I have never understood is why the rules in savings or monthly income are so different , both my wife and I are farang however we have to show a monthly income of 65,000 or money in the bank of 800,000 if my wife were Thai I would only be required to show a monthly income of 40,000 baht or 400,000 in the bank having lived in the Kingdom for more than 8 years no one has been able to give me a satisfactory answer indeed friends of mine married to a Thai often remark how there wives are always overspending with one friend losing everything he had except for the clothes he had on her back.

[Bernard Flint]

The only thing I can imagine them introducing is some kind of compulsory health care insurance. The current government has already tried to tighten other aspects of immigration rules only to relax them again as soon as they actually realised what they were doing and it was hurting. Retirees might not be a huge source of revenue for Thailand, but it's a steady earner and no hassle for them.

SIR

I agree

Too many farangs with no medical insurance cover,and not enough income for major medical treatment.

[WhizBang]

<snip>

The main thing that would make me leave would be if Thailand started taxing me on my worldwide income as opposed to just my Thai income (which is zero). If that happened I would probably be gone long before the dust settled anyway.

Absolutely. If they should decide to start taxing the money I bring into Thailand for living, I would be gone in a heartbeat.

[Jip99]

I am not concerned but I do see some possible situations that could be a concern. Unlike in our own countries where there are people or NPOs who can assist you here we tend to relay on our wife's or girlfriends who may or may not be the best suited to address our problems.

Example: health related issues that keep you from going to immigration for your extensions. Will you be on overstay and thrown out of country or will they understand and say not a problem?

How about Alzheimer's and you lack the ability to keep your affairs in order, will they deport you if you are unable to sign you name or even remember who you are ?

The 800,000 rule for retirement has been in place for a long time, when will they increase the requirement? Will you be able to cover the required increase?

Perhaps always best to have a plan B just in case, even if you are 80 and feeling good.

After you have put all your eggs in one basket if something happened it would be difficult when you are old and not healthy to try to put everything back in order and start new again back in your home country.

I have no concerns but I agree that it is good to have a plan B in mind.

For that reason I am more concerned about what neighbouring countries are doing with their immigration rules.

[MediaWatcher]

If the OP lives on "what if's" then he will surely die, of brain haemorrhaging, long before he retires.

[MobileContent]

I think things stay as it is now but all retirees should have medical insurance before the extension is given.

Went last week to a hospital and saw an old Australian chap with serious hard conditions. When I asked him if he has any savings to get in to a private hospital he told the Mrs from Pattaya took all his money.

[MediaWatcher]

simon43, on 24 Aug 2014 - 08:24, said:

Quote

How can a person live their life worrying about what may happen in 20 years, that doesn't seem like you Simon!

Perhaps 'concerned' would be a better word, instead of 'worrying'.

At my age (55), I still have some time to take the necessary steps (eg PR or citizenship) to head off a situation where the retirement visa rules are tightened up, Once I am say 65 years old, those options really are no longer available...

@JLCrab, indeed I have lots of experience with marriage.... and divorce..... I'm trying to avoid going down that route again

Then take those "precautions" and stop worrying. You might not even be alive.

[Naam]

I personally think Thailand should require from all retirees proof of income of at least 65,000 baht/month (which is about 800,000 baht/year) and get rid of the 800,000 baht in a bank account rule. Right now, there are way too many people on a tiny pension who choose to live here and do not significantly contribute to the economy.

what's wrong with a retiree who spends his "tiny pension" in Thailand without being a burden on Thai public spending?

[BKKSnowBird]

The only thing I can imagine them introducing is some kind of compulsory health care insurance. The current government has already tried to tighten other aspects of immigration rules only to relax them again as soon as they actually realised what they were doing and it was hurting. Retirees might not be a huge source of revenue for Thailand, but it's a steady earner and no hassle for them.

+1. You can count on this happening. Most others countries already require it in order to get a visa.

I also think it is a good thing.

[MediaWatcher]

nicolas18, on 24 Aug 2014 - 11:03, said:

I personally think Thailand should require from all retirees proof of income of at least 65,000 baht/month (which is about 800,000 baht/year) and get rid of the 800,000 baht in a bank account rule. Right now, there are way too many people on a tiny pension who choose to live here and do not significantly contribute to the economy.

So, just how much does a person need to "contribute" before getting your approval, besides, there are many other ways to "contribute" besides monetarily. My issue is with a#seholes like you, does any country need them.

[nicolas18]

I personally think Thailand should require from all retirees proof of income of at least 65,000 baht/month (which is about 800,000 baht/year) and get rid of the 800,000 baht in a bank account rule. Right now, there are way too many people on a tiny pension who choose to live here and do not significantly contribute to the economy.

what's wrong with a retiree who spends his "tiny pension" in Thailand without being a burden on Thai public spending?

Because they are usually the ones you see either walking around in a wifebeater or glued to a barstool from 10AM til midnight. Not really the type of quality tourists/foreigners Thailand wants to attract.

[crazykopite]

Ubonjoe, I am optimistic but also realistic. I am not talking about possible changes to the visa rules in the next year or so, but perhaps 20 years in the future, and none of us can know what will happen.

But based on the history of 'retirement' visas, and the general rules regarding issue of visas to foreigners, do you really think it is likely that there will be no changes to the rules, or that the requirements will be eased?

IMHO,, I do not think for 1 second that the visa rules will remain unchanged or will be eased.in the future. The logical assumption is that they will be made stricter, to what degree or how is unknown.[/

I can understand your concerns, especialy with a new PM, who wants to impress, but i do think that Thailand prefers old uns like me

In 2 years i will be 65, so i only have to show my government pension, and nothing else, a bit silly, i know,so i will not need an extension for retirement, and show 800,000 baht

I do not know where you get the idea that on reaching 65 you will only have to show your government pension , if you are from the UK you would be required to purchase a proof of income letter from the British Embassy in Bangkok in order that you can still get your extension of stay visa from your local immigration office, I would also be very surprised if your UK OAP payments would be 65,000 per month it is proposed in April 2016 that all qualifying pensioners will be given a weekly pension in the region of £148 per week this would fall well short of the 65,000 required per month at today's currency exchange , you should also remember that the UK does not have an agreement with Thailand regarding pensions therefore your pension will be frozen from day one unless you return back to the UK or mainland Europe ,you could move to the Philippines where they have an agreement that would see your UK pension increase each year.

[dom4biz]

Sounds like a chicken little sky is falling scenario.. good for discussion on what if's:)

[phuketrichard]

i think if we are here on retirement extensions and they change the rules

they will grandfather all in on the previous rules as they did before

and if not,

well, will move over to the house I have in Cambodia LOL

[Naam]

Ubonjoe, I am optimistic but also realistic. I am not talking about possible changes to the visa rules in the next year or so, but perhaps 20 years in the future, and none of us can know what will happen.

But based on the history of 'retirement' visas, and the general rules regarding issue of visas to foreigners, do you really think it is likely that there will be no changes to the rules, or that the requirements will be eased?

IMHO,, I do not think for 1 second that the visa rules will remain unchanged or will be eased.in the future. The logical assumption is that they will be made stricter, to what degree or how is unknown.

I can understand your concerns, especialy with a new PM, who wants to impress, but i do think that Thailand prefers old uns like me

In 2 years i will be 65, so i only have to show my government pension, and nothing else, a bit silly, i know,so i will not need an extension for retirement, and show 800,000 baht

does that mean your government pension is 65,000 Baht (USD 2,040, GBP 1,230, €UR 1,540, AUD 2,200, NZD 2,440)?

[jigagee]

Hey , why worry

whatever you worry about , something different always happens ...

Edited August 24, 2014 by metisdead
Font reset to default forum font.

[GeorgeO]

...what reason would the authorities have to change the terms of a retirement extension?

Retirees are, generally, a trouble-free group of people who simply spend money on their choice of pursuits, in my case, golf. I bring sufficient funds in from the UK each year to meet the requirements (which, as we know, are about ten times the average expenditure of mainstream Thais) and always do the 90-day report on time.

If anything, the authorities might decide to look at us as a valuable group and decide to drop the need for the 90-day reporting, given that we still have to go through the hoops of renewal each year.

To make any negative changes to a very substantial source of spending in Thailand would be tantamount to economic suicide on the part of the authorities.

[Jip99]

Ubonjoe, I am optimistic but also realistic. I am not talking about possible changes to the visa rules in the next year or so, but perhaps 20 years in the future, and none of us can know what will happen.

But based on the history of 'retirement' visas, and the general rules regarding issue of visas to foreigners, do you really think it is likely that there will be no changes to the rules, or that the requirements will be eased?

IMHO,, I do not think for 1 second that the visa rules will remain unchanged or will be eased.in the future. The logical assumption is that they will be made stricter, to what degree or how is unknown.[/

I can understand your concerns, especialy with a new PM, who wants to impress, but i do think that Thailand prefers old uns like me

In 2 years i will be 65, so i only have to show my government pension, and nothing else, a bit silly, i know,so i will not need an extension for retirement, and show 800,000 baht

I do not know where you get the idea that on reaching 65 you will only have to show your government pension , if you are from the UK you would be required to purchase a proof of income letter from the British Embassy in Bangkok in order that you can still get your extension of stay visa from your local immigration office, I would also be very surprised if your UK OAP payments would be 65,000 per month it is proposed in April 2016 that all qualifying pensioners will be given a weekly pension in the region of £148 per week this would fall well short of the 65,000 required per month at today's currency exchange , you should also remember that the UK does not have an agreement with Thailand regarding pensions therefore your pension will be frozen from day one unless you return back to the UK or mainland Europe ,you could move to the Philippines where they have an agreement that would see your UK pension increase each year.

You have misunderstood completely.

Bernard Flint is talking about acquiring a Non Imm 'O' visa just by evidenced receipt of the state pension into a bank account for 3 months. There is no minimum requirement.

The pension will only be frozen if he advises DWP of a move to Thailand.

[Bernard Flint]

Ubonjoe, I am optimistic but also realistic. I am not talking about possible changes to the visa rules in the next year or so, but perhaps 20 years in the future, and none of us can know what will happen.

But based on the history of 'retirement' visas, and the general rules regarding issue of visas to foreigners, do you really think it is likely that there will be no changes to the rules, or that the requirements will be eased?

IMHO,, I do not think for 1 second that the visa rules will remain unchanged or will be eased.in the future. The logical assumption is that they will be made stricter, to what degree or how is unknown.[/

I can understand your concerns, especialy with a new PM, who wants to impress, but i do think that Thailand prefers old uns like me

In 2 years i will be 65, so i only have to show my government pension, and nothing else, a bit silly, i know,so i will not need an extension for retirement, and show 800,000 baht

I do not know where you get the idea that on reaching 65 you will only have to show your government pension , if you are from the UK you would be required to purchase a proof of income letter from the British Embassy in Bangkok in order that you can still get your extension of stay visa from your local immigration office, I would also be very surprised if your UK OAP payments would be 65,000 per month it is proposed in April 2016 that all qualifying pensioners will be given a weekly pension in the region of £148 per week this would fall well short of the 65,000 required per month at today's currency exchange , you should also remember that the UK does not have an agreement with Thailand regarding pensions therefore your pension will be frozen from day one unless you return back to the UK or mainland Europe ,you could move to the Philippines where they have an agreement that would see your UK pension increase each year.

Yes, i do know all that,and its more like 155gbp per week. However i think i am refering to multi 0 visa when 65, sorry about the confusion if i mis quoted.At 65 the only requirement is a government pension, not matter how much/ little, seems strange to me also.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Bernard Flint

[Jip99]

Ubonjoe, I am optimistic but also realistic. I am not talking about possible changes to the visa rules in the next year or so, but perhaps 20 years in the future, and none of us can know what will happen.

But based on the history of 'retirement' visas, and the general rules regarding issue of visas to foreigners, do you really think it is likely that there will be no changes to the rules, or that the requirements will be eased?

IMHO,, I do not think for 1 second that the visa rules will remain unchanged or will be eased.in the future. The logical assumption is that they will be made stricter, to what degree or how is unknown.

I can understand your concerns, especialy with a new PM, who wants to impress, but i do think that Thailand prefers old uns like me

In 2 years i will be 65, so i only have to show my government pension, and nothing else, a bit silly, i know,so i will not need an extension for retirement, and show 800,000 baht

does that mean your government pension is 65,000 Baht (USD 2,040, GBP 1,230, €UR 1,540, AUD 2,200, NZD 2,440)?

BF is talking about visas not extensions.

[stevehaigh]

what if a big rock falls from the sky and hits me on the head? i'm not going to spend all day worrying about it.

[MediaWatcher]

I personally think Thailand should require from all retirees proof of income of at least 65,000 baht/month (which is about 800,000 baht/year) and get rid of the 800,000 baht in a bank account rule. Right now, there are way too many people on a tiny pension who choose to live here and do not significantly contribute to the economy.

what's wrong with a retiree who spends his "tiny pension" in Thailand without being a burden on Thai public spending?

Because they are usually the ones you see either walking around in a wifebeater or glued to a barstool from 10AM til midnight. Not really the type of quality tourists/foreigners Thailand wants to attract.

Must be my eyesight, I see more younger people than older, sitting around the bars, you really seem to have issues that need attention...remember, if it wasn't for an older man, you wouldn't be here.. By the way, what the hell is a "wifebeater?"

[maxjay]

simon43 wrote:

This is a question for those foreigners who intend to live in Thailand until their dying day.

As I edge closer to 'mature' years, I am getting a little concerned about the long-term viability of a visa extension based on retirement, the visa type that most of us older expats use to legally stay in this country.

Right now, this type of visa extension allows a mere 365 days of stay, based on proof of finances/pension etc.

I don't think it is outside the realms of possibility that the regulations concerning this visa extension type may change in the future, and very likely not for the better.

- What if the sum required to show in the bank/monthly pension was increased by 20%

- What if you were required to actually spend your 800,000 baht every year, not just show the same amount in your bank account?

- What is the age of eligibility for this visa type were raised to 65 years old?

- What if you need to make a visa-run at 90 years old???

I'm not scare-mongering, but considering very possible situations, especially considering the fact that Thailand is a lot closer (socially/economically etc) to China and ASEAN. In the future years, being an old 'whitey' in Thailand might not carry much weight....

Does anyone share the same concerns about 'retirement visas' as I?

I think what simon43 wrote in his OP are valid concerns. IMO, there is a big difference between "concerns" and "worrying".

For me, two thing come to mind:

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst: have a "plan B".

Always remember, the #1 rule for ex-pats: "never invest or buy more in Thailand than you can comfortably walk away from".