Retirees, are you worried that the rules might change?

[bertty]

A wife beater is a garment with no arms that is worn on the upper torso.

As for people sitting in bars from 10am till 12pm, is there a law that says they cant do that ?

And I'm pretty sure any bar owner Thai or other is more than happy for that sort of tourist to visit.

Do tell me the difference between the old man having a drink in his local, and the city whizz kid who spends everyday getting drunk whilst meant to be working?

[Bernard Flint]

Ubonjoe, I am optimistic but also realistic. I am not talking about possible changes to the visa rules in the next year or so, but perhaps 20 years in the future, and none of us can know what will happen.

But based on the history of 'retirement' visas, and the general rules regarding issue of visas to foreigners, do you really think it is likely that there will be no changes to the rules, or that the requirements will be eased?

IMHO,, I do not think for 1 second that the visa rules will remain unchanged or will be eased.in the future. The logical assumption is that they will be made stricter, to what degree or how is unknown.

I can understand your concerns, especialy with a new PM, who wants to impress, but i do think that Thailand prefers old uns like me

In 2 years i will be 65, so i only have to show my government pension, and nothing else, a bit silly, i know,so i will not need an extension for retirement, and show 800,000 baht

does that mean your government pension is 65,000 Baht (USD 2,040, GBP 1,230, €UR 1,540, AUD 2,200, NZD 2,440)?

BF is talking about visas not extensions.

From Hull site, march 2014, i had to check as kopite confused me.

4) Visiting Thailand as Pensioner aged 65 and over.

Evidence required:

a) Current “DWP Pension Statement” showing receipt of UK State Pension (no minimum

necessary).

Either a single or multiple entry visa may be granted in these circumstances.

[nicolas18]

I personally think Thailand should require from all retirees proof of income of at least 65,000 baht/month (which is about 800,000 baht/year) and get rid of the 800,000 baht in a bank account rule. Right now, there are way too many people on a tiny pension who choose to live here and do not significantly contribute to the economy.

what's wrong with a retiree who spends his "tiny pension" in Thailand without being a burden on Thai public spending?

Because they are usually the ones you see either walking around in a wifebeater or glued to a barstool from 10AM til midnight. Not really the type of quality tourists/foreigners Thailand wants to attract.

Must be my eyesight, I see more younger people than older, sitting around the bars, you really seem to have issues that need attention...remember, if it wasn't for an older man, you wouldn't be here.. By the way, what the hell is a "wifebeater?"

I think it's your eyesight, yes.

A wifebeater is a type of sleeveless shirt: https://blackthai.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/fat-farang.jpg

[bushwacker]

Nothing stays the same forever. While the brain is still working, I have a few back up plans that could be implemented if needed. Now on to enjoying life. No need to worry or be concerned.

And besides after 6 years, I might kick myself out long before they even think about doing it. And in 10 years, this might not be the country that we/I want to live in due to the 10 years of changes or maybe even no change.

Just saying.

[larsjohnsson]

No

[abrahamzvi]

Nope!

My unequivocal answer is NO. Quite frankly in the world we are living in, nobody can know what is going to happen in 1,2, 10 or 20 years, here in Thailand or anywhere else in the world. Social Security Laws, Immigration laws change permanently all over the world and so do financial markets. So why worry what will happen to retirement visas? They may even be improved! Who knows?

[jpinx]

From Hull site, march 2014, i had to check as kopite confused me.

I can understand your concerns, especialy with a new PM, who wants to impress, but i do think that Thailand prefers old uns like me

Ubonjoe, I a

In 2 years i will be 65, so i only have to show my government pension, and nothing else, a bit silly, i know,so i will not need an extension for retirement, and show 800,000 baht

does that mean your government pension is 65,000 Baht (USD 2,040, GBP 1,230, €UR 1,540, AUD 2,200, NZD 2,440)?

BF is talking about visas not extensions.

4) Visiting Thailand as Pensioner aged 65 and over.

Evidence required:

a) Current “DWP Pension Statement” showing receipt of UK State Pension (no minimum

necessary).

Either a single or multiple entry visa may be granted in these circumstances.

---------------->

That is not a one year visa/extension - which is what this thread is about. What you get from Hull is a visa for 60days - maybe x2.

[Bernard Flint]

From Hull site, march 2014, i had to check as kopite confused me.

I can understand your concerns, especialy with a new PM, who wants to impress, but i do think that Thailand prefers old uns like me

Ubonjoe, I a

In 2 years i will be 65, so i only have to show my government pension, and nothing else, a bit silly, i know,so i will not need an extension for retirement, and show 800,000 baht

does that mean your government pension is 65,000 Baht (USD 2,040, GBP 1,230, €UR 1,540, AUD 2,200, NZD 2,440)?

BF is talking about visas not extensions.

4) Visiting Thailand as Pensioner aged 65 and over.

Evidence required:

a) Current “DWP Pension Statement” showing receipt of UK State Pension (no minimum

necessary).

Either a single or multiple entry visa may be granted in these circumstances.

---------------->

That is not a one year visa/extension - which is what this thread is about. What you get from Hull is a visa for 60days - maybe x2.

Read it again

this is a 1 year single or multiple 0 based on being 65 years or older

[nithisa78]

nothing to be concerned . . . wake up call. no worries.

[Jip99]

From Hull site, march 2014, i had to check as kopite confused me.

I can understand your concerns, especialy with a new PM, who wants to impress, but i do think that Thailand prefers old uns like me

Ubonjoe, I a

In 2 years i will be 65, so i only have to show my government pension, and nothing else, a bit silly, i know,so i will not need an extension for retirement, and show 800,000 baht

does that mean your government pension is 65,000 Baht (USD 2,040, GBP 1,230, €UR 1,540, AUD 2,200, NZD 2,440)?

BF is talking about visas not extensions.

4) Visiting Thailand as Pensioner aged 65 and over.

Evidence required:

a) Current “DWP Pension Statement” showing receipt of UK State Pension (no minimum

necessary).

Either a single or multiple entry visa may be granted in these circumstances.

---------------->

That is not a one year visa/extension - which is what this thread is about. What you get from Hull is a visa for 60days - maybe x2.

No - it is a 12m Non Imm 'O' based on being an OAP.

Specific and simple rules for this category.

Not fair, or consistent, but that is the current rules. A friend obtained his 12m visa on the strength of 28,000 Baht p.m. (equivalent) state pension.

[1FinickyOne]

Wow, other people i know are worried about dementia and cancer and things that they probably can't change either…

Me, no, I am not worried. I expect there will be changes in my life and that I will be able to deal with them when they come. As to this one, since you are all worried about it, then I guess I am free to worry about other things. So thanks.

[Naam]

I personally think Thailand should require from all retirees proof of income of at least 65,000 baht/month (which is about 800,000 baht/year) and get rid of the 800,000 baht in a bank account rule. Right now, there are way too many people on a tiny pension who choose to live here and do not significantly contribute to the economy.

what's wrong with a retiree who spends his "tiny pension" in Thailand without being a burden on Thai public spending?

Because they are usually the ones you see either walking around in a wifebeater or glued to a barstool from 10AM til midnight. Not really the type of quality tourists/foreigners Thailand wants to attract.

please forgive my uneducated question. being a total ignorant i had no idea that you are one of the Thai policy makers who decide what kind of tourists Thailand wants to attract.

[jpinx]

Read it again

this is a 1 year single or multiple 0 based on being 65 years or older

------------>

Do you have the link ?

[Jip99]

I personally think Thailand should require from all retirees proof of income of at least 65,000 baht/month (which is about 800,000 baht/year) and get rid of the 800,000 baht in a bank account rule. Right now, there are way too many people on a tiny pension who choose to live here and do not significantly contribute to the economy.

what's wrong with a retiree who spends his "tiny pension" in Thailand without being a burden on Thai public spending?

Because they are usually the ones you see either walking around in a wifebeater or glued to a barstool from 10AM til midnight. Not really the type of quality tourists/foreigners Thailand wants to attract.

Have you actually been to Thailand........ ever ?

[NoshowJones]

Simon, that is an excellent post you have written. I fully expect to stay here for the rest of my life, and your concerns are understandable. I do believe however, that Thailand needs us expats, I won't go through all the reasons, but one is that there are thousands of Thai wives and girlfriends getting financial support for their families and children from Westerners.

Thais are very good at looking after there own as there are no benefits like there are in countries like the UK, and I can't see them sending their families into poverty by getting rid of retirees and other Westerners. The rules will keep changing as they always do, but I don't think to the extent of forcing Westerners to go back home.

[Naam]

From Hull site, march 2014, i had to check as kopite confused me.

I can understand your concerns, especialy with a new PM, who wants to impress, but i do think that Thailand prefers old uns like me

Ubonjoe, I a

In 2 years i will be 65, so i only have to show my government pension, and nothing else, a bit silly, i know,so i will not need an extension for retirement, and show 800,000 baht

does that mean your government pension is 65,000 Baht (USD 2,040, GBP 1,230, €UR 1,540, AUD 2,200, NZD 2,440)?

BF is talking about visas not extensions.

4) Visiting Thailand as Pensioner aged 65 and over.

Evidence required:

a) Current “DWP Pension Statement” showing receipt of UK State Pension (no minimum

necessary).

Either a single or multiple entry visa may be granted in these circumstances.

---------------->

That is not a one year visa/extension - which is what this thread is about. What you get from Hull is a visa for 60days - maybe x2.

Read it again

this is a 1 year single or multiple 0 based on being 65 years or older

read again

Visiting Thailand as Pensioner aged 65 and over

this thread is about living in Thailand and not temporarily visiting with a visa that requires visa runs.

[INV]

Well I don't give much for the thought that there have not been any changes for a long time or they would not do that as there is no sign of that. That is totally unimportant as the Thai Immigration show several times lately that they do what they want in a blink and don't give a rats ass what will happens to our wifes,children etc, so I 100% sure there will be some changes soon. Like we have to do a new visa every year same as Student and most likely put up the age as 50 is low. Money is already high but can't see they give a shit so will go up to minimum 1-1,5 mil.There will be taxes on your money, they will make you buy a useless insurance even if you have your own good one, and all other stuff they can think of .For sure there will be changes and soon. why not????????Any one really think they care what we think and what it would mean? Wake up and feel the love.

[whiteman]

no + 4

[bertty]

Well I don't give much for the thought that there have not been any changes for a long time or they would not do that as there is no sign of that. That is totally unimportant as the Thai Immigration show several times lately that they do what they want in a blink and don't give a rats ass what will happens to our wifes,children etc, so I 100% sure there will be some changes soon. Like we have to do a new visa every year same as Student and most likely put up the age as 50 is low. Money is already high but can't see they give a shit so will go up to minimum 1-1,5 mil.There will be taxes on your money, they will make you buy a useless insurance even if you have your own good one, and all other stuff they can think of .For sure there will be changes and soon. why not????????Any one really think they care what we think and what it would mean? Wake up and feel the love.

And you love Thailand so much you want to spend the rest of your life there ?

Maybe you should be elsewhere already.

[JLCrab]

My big concern if the rules for retirement changed to be implausible for me that I would have to marry a Thai girl to stay in Thailand and then I would have to decide which one to marry.

[chiang mai]

Cambodia as I recall, did enact a law whereby foreigners could not marry native woman below a certain age. I can imagine a scenario whereby limits are imposed on the extent of the age gap, that would be a show stopper for some..

[INV]

Well I don't give much for the thought that there have not been any changes for a long time or they would not do that as there is no sign of that. That is totally unimportant as the Thai Immigration show several times lately that they do what they want in a blink and don't give a rats ass what will happens to our wifes,children etc, so I 100% sure there will be some changes soon. Like we have to do a new visa every year same as Student and most likely put up the age as 50 is low. Money is already high but can't see they give a shit so will go up to minimum 1-1,5 mil.There will be taxes on your money, they will make you buy a useless insurance even if you have your own good one, and all other stuff they can think of .For sure there will be changes and soon. why not????????Any one really think they care what we think and what it would mean? Wake up and feel the love.

And you love Thailand so much you want to spend the rest of your life there ?

Maybe you should be elsewhere already.

Can't see that I write want to spend the rest of my life here? And don't love Thailand at all but its convenient for a while more, never loved it and will never do. It use to have a good and friendly atmosphere but that's all gone the last 5-6years but let's stay on topic, will there be changes and my answer is YES and for sure not to make things better

[wwest5829]

No concern. I checked with folks retired here already before I decided to move to Chiang Mai. That and reading the history reflected that through previous trials and tribulations, it appears retired farangs are little affected. I also think medical tourism will have an increasing role in Thailand's future, including increased nursing homes.

[NoshowJones]

I think things stay as it is now but all retirees should have medical insurance before the extension is given.

Went last week to a hospital and saw an old Australian chap with serious hard conditions. When I asked him if he has any savings to get in to a private hospital he told the Mrs from Pattaya took all his money.

That might be OK if the insurance companies played fair, but they don't, they are just like the thieving banks, and will take as much money from you as they can.

You reach seventy, then as you are getting older, they realise they will soon have to pay out, and the older you get, the more your contributions will increase.

I suppose I can be wrong here, but are any insurance companies guaranteeing their premiums won't go up as you get older?

[Don Aleman]

Not to worry as 3 -4 other nations, with far better handling of ex pats, are providing incentives to relocate - some already have and more will do so as stupid rules like 90 reporting continue and ,maybe , worsen. Many of the freedoms ex pats came here for are either limited, banned or, a crime ! Other nations act as adults !

[simon43]

Well. with the exception of a couple of posters who generally agree with me, I am very heartened to see the optimism and lack of concern about this subject.

But perhaps the words 'ostrich', 'head' and 'sand' spring to mind.....

One reason why I've been thinking about this topic are the changing demographics and spheres of political interest/influence in Thailand.

Thailand, IMHO, is looking fairly and squarely towards ASEAN and China for it's future. The influence and importance of 'western' powers is diminishing. The revenue contributed by western retirees is completely insignificant to the equation, (you might think your financial contributions are an important consideration, but I can assure you that retiree financial 'muscle' and influence is a mere knat's whisker).

Foreign retirees are tolerated, but there is no comparision to eg My Second Home programme from Malaysia. A one-year visa-extension is all you get.

A plan B is always a good idea - I have a proven plan B. I suspect that many retirees have no plan B, and would be in serious trouble if the retirement visa rules were tightened up.

[smotherb]

Well, Simon, no problem and I have a plan B.

"What if the sum required to show in the bank/monthly pension was increased by 20%"--no problem, as several have said, I have the money.

"What if you were required to actually spend your 800,000 baht every year, not just show the same amount in your bank account?'--no problem, already do spend more than that every year here.

"What is the age of eligibility for this visa type were raised to 65 years old?"--no problem, I am well past 65.

"What if you need to make a visa-run at 90 years old???"--no problem, if I am able; if not, I can hire someone to wheel me through.

Oh yeah, plan B. As a life-long expat, always on temporary assignment, I saw no reason to change in retirement. I have no ties (no pun intended) to Thailand, so I would simply go somewhere else. My wife is not Thai and the only things I own here that are worth much are vehicles--and I could leave them if I could not sell them. As a matter of fact, I would have quite a nice time deciding to which sweet things to give them.

It's called planning and scheduling my friend. You need to practice it all your life, and if you haven't learned it by retirement age, you are stuck.

[Globalist]

The main thing that would make me leave would be if Thailand started taxing me on my worldwide income as opposed to just my Thai income (which is zero). If that happened I would probably be gone long before the dust settled anyway.

Anyone who stays in Thailand more than 180 days in a calendar year is a tax resident in Thailand in that calendar year, and is eligible to pay tax on all his/her income, wherever it is generated. There may be double-taxation agreements that come into play, but that is the general rule.

You may be rather be referring to enforcement, which is a different matter.

[bertty]

Well. with the exception of a couple of posters who generally agree with me, I am very heartened to see the optimism and lack of concern about this subject.

But perhaps the words 'ostrich', 'head' and 'sand' spring to mind.....

One reason why I've been thinking about this topic are the changing demographics and spheres of political interest/influence in Thailand.

Thailand, IMHO, is looking fairly and squarely towards ASEAN and China for it's future. The influence and importance of 'western' powers is diminishing. The revenue contributed by western retirees is completely insignificant to the equation, (you might think your financial contributions are an important consideration, but I can assure you that retiree financial 'muscle' and influence is a mere knat's whisker).

Foreign retirees are tolerated, but there is no comparision to eg My Second Home programme from Malaysia. A one-year visa-extension is all you get.

A plan B is always a good idea - I have a proven plan B. I suspect that many retirees have no plan B, and would be in serious trouble if the retirement visa rules were tightened up.

Where does all the money in Thailand come from ?

We are told retirees contribute next to nothing.

Tourist contribute next to nothing.

Expat business contribute next to nothing.

Do these rice farmers really put so much into the economy that no outsider is needed?

P.S. What is the difference between a western and a Chinese retiree?

Edited August 24, 2014 by bertty

[Naam]

The main thing that would make me leave would be if Thailand started taxing me on my worldwide income as opposed to just my Thai income (which is zero). If that happened I would probably be gone long before the dust settled anyway.

Anyone who stays in Thailand more than 180 days in a calendar year is a tax resident in Thailand in that calendar year, and is eligible to pay tax on all his/her income, wherever it is generated. There may be double-taxation agreements that come into play, but that is the general rule.

You may be rather be referring to enforcement, which is a different matter.

you Sir,

have no idea!