Retirees, are you worried that the rules might change?

[simon43]

This is a question for those foreigners who intend to live in Thailand until their dying day.

As I edge closer to 'mature' years, I am getting a little concerned about the long-term viability of a visa extension based on retirement, the visa type that most of us older expats use to legally stay in this country.

Right now, this type of visa extension allows a mere 365 days of stay, based on proof of finances/pension etc.

I don't think it is outside the realms of possibility that the regulations concerning this visa extension type may change in the future, and very likely not for the better.

- What if the sum required to show in the bank/monthly pension was increased by 20%

- What if you were required to actually spend your 800,000 baht every year, not just show the same amount in your bank account?

- What is the age of eligibility for this visa type were raised to 65 years old?

- What if you need to make a visa-run at 90 years old???

I'm not scare-mongering, but considering very possible situations, especially considering the fact that Thailand is a lot closer (socially/economically etc) to China and ASEAN. In the future years, being an old 'whitey' in Thailand might not carry much weight....

For myself, I would jump at the chance to obtain Thai citizenship, to assure my future in Thailand. Unfortunately, being divorced from my Thai wife seems to remove the opportunity to apply for citizenship, even though I have a Thai child born within wedlock. (Yes, PR is a route to citizenship for single male foreigners, but I think some who applied more than 6 years ago are still waiting......)

Does anyone share the same concerns about 'retirement visas' as I?

[chiang mai]

Nope!

[ubonjoe]

I have seen nothing to make me think there is any impending changes. In fact the new police order that goes into effect on the 29th has no changes for retirement extensions.

In my opinion there will never be another change to the age to qualify. Nor a requirement to spend the money here.

I cannot see them raising the financial requirements any time soon. It is already well above what is needed to live here.

[schlog]

No.

[simon43]

Ubonjoe, I am optimistic but also realistic. I am not talking about possible changes to the visa rules in the next year or so, but perhaps 20 years in the future, and none of us can know what will happen.

But based on the history of 'retirement' visas, and the general rules regarding issue of visas to foreigners, do you really think it is likely that there will be no changes to the rules, or that the requirements will be eased?

IMHO,, I do not think for 1 second that the visa rules will remain unchanged or will be eased.in the future. The logical assumption is that they will be made stricter, to what degree or how is unknown.

[KittenKong]

The retirement extension has been around for quite a long time, with no significant changes to the way it works. It has many economic advantages for Thailand and no obvious disadvantages. Therefore I see no real reason why it should be made more difficult to obtain.

Would I care if the financial requirement was increased by 20% (or 50% or 100%)? No. I can afford it and it isn't a fee anyway, just a deposit.

Would I care if I had to spend the 800K every year and not just deposit it? Not really because it would be very easy to sidestep such a requirement.

Would I care if the age requirement was increased to 65? Maybe, but in the past when requirements have changed there have been "grandfather" arrangements for those already under the old regime. As mentioned above, Thailand is a net beneficiary of the retirement extension, so why make it harder?

Would I jump at getting PR or citizenship? Would it bother me to leave Thailand and move somewhere else? No. I'm not married to anyone or anything or anywhere. Thailand is nice enough (though it has many faults) but it isn't the only apple on the tree and in many respects some other places are much better than here. It would be tedious to move, but that's all.

The main thing that would make me leave would be if Thailand started taxing me on my worldwide income as opposed to just my Thai income (which is zero). If that happened I would probably be gone long before the dust settled anyway.

Edited August 24, 2014 by KittenKong

[chiang mai]

How can a person live their life worrying about what may happen in 20 years, that doesn't seem like you Simon!

[JLCrab]

No problem for you Simon -- Even though you have no experience with the retirement extension you can always get married again at which you have lots of experience.

[simon43]

How can a person live their life worrying about what may happen in 20 years, that doesn't seem like you Simon!

Perhaps 'concerned' would be a better word, instead of 'worrying'.

At my age (55), I still have some time to take the necessary steps (eg PR or citizenship) to head off a situation where the retirement visa rules are tightened up, Once I am say 65 years old, those options really are no longer available...

@JLCrab, indeed I have lots of experience with marriage.... and divorce..... I'm trying to avoid going down that route again

Edited August 24, 2014 by simon43

[kurnell]

How is a som tam vendor and a motorcycle taxi driver gonna give you a receipt?

[Naam]

How can a person live their life worrying about what may happen in 20 years, that doesn't seem like you Simon!

there are days when Simon is very bored. that applies especially to weekends and periods when he is not busy building the umpteenth minihotel.

[harrry]

How can a person live their life worrying about what may happen in 20 years, that doesn't seem like you Simon!

there are days when Simon is very bored. that applies especially to weekends and periods when he is not busy building the umpteenth minihotel.

Good thing our hotel chain founder Simon does not have a daughter called Paris then he really would have something to worry about.

[PattayaPhom]

Maybe wrong but when the financials were increased many years ago was Grandfathering brought into play? Possibly an issue for future retirees but not existing

[ATF]

How can a person live their life worrying about what may happen in 20 years, that doesn't seem like you Simon!

Perhaps 'concerned' would be a better word, instead of 'worrying'.

At my age (55), I still have some time to take the necessary steps (eg PR or citizenship) to head off a situation where the retirement visa rules are tightened up, Once I am say 65 years old, those options really are no longer available...

@JLCrab, indeed I have lots of experience with marriage.... and divorce..... I'm trying to avoid going down that route again

As Mr. Crab said you can marry again or get a family support EOS or get a EOS based on your kid supporting you.

You can even register a company and get a "B" visa or maybe there will be something similar to the ED visa around then.

If you're 90 years old and stuck in a wheelchair just overstay and tell everyone to !#!$@ themselves.

[chiang mai]

If you are concerned then perhaps you should hedge your bets, perhaps make a retirement visa your Plan A, just decide what your Plan B is. FWIW my plan A is continued retirement in Thailand but I've just bought a small flat in Somerset which I will use as a base for two or three months each year. The holding cost of the flat is negligible, community charge and lease/ground rent charges, about £140 a month which is offset by other gains - it offers a fallback in case the Thailand wheel falls off but also provides for new experiences and travel opportunities.

[iancnx]

Only slightly off topic.

Under the new rules, unless I am mistaken, your Thai child can elect to have you become his dependent in your old age and I believe this would be treated the same as other non O annual extensions. This might be an option (in extremis) if the relationship with your son is a close one? and would free up the 800k on deposit to cover any medical costs which might crop up.

Certainly for me if I ever get to the ripe old age of, say, 80+ then my 400k might well provide a reasonable contribution for my healthcare.

Edited August 24, 2014 by iancnx

[JLCrab]

One might then consider then going on the retirement extension ASAP so if there is some change -- and as with prior changes to Police Order provisions -- those already on such extension via retirement before X date are exempted from the new changes.

(I am trying to avoid using the word 'grandfather'' if possible)

[villagefarang]

In my 37 years living in Thailand I have gone through a variety of visa types and witnessed many changes along the way but experience has taught me that things work out and worry is a waste of time. I do remember worrying a bit during the first ten years or so, when I was still young and inexperienced, but I got over that phase.

Edited August 24, 2014 by villagefarang

[mahjongguy]

No, not worried. Old rules might be grandfathered. If not, I'm already old and sufficiently well endowed - financially.

There are much more likely things to worry about. Over two decades the odds of getting whacked by a crazed motosai driver are close to 100%.

Edited August 24, 2014 by mahjongguy

[bertty]

I have a cunning plan. I will put 800,000 baht into my bank as needed, then after 2 months take it all out. 2 days later I will put it all back in again. If i do this 4 or 5 times a year I may get a bonus !!!

The OP is 55 I am 52, I don't really worry to much about next year let alone 20 years time. And I really see no point in getting all het up about something you can do nothing about.

Go have a lay down dear.

Edited August 24, 2014 by ubonjoe
Changed to default font. Please do not use bold font.

[Spoonman]

The 800k in the bank, if you are not spending it already what money are you living on ?

[AYJAYDEE]

If you are concerned then perhaps you should hedge your bets, perhaps make a retirement visa your Plan A, just decide what your Plan B is. FWIW my plan A is continued retirement in Thailand but I've just bought a small flat in Somerset which I will use as a base for two or three months each year. The holding cost of the flat is negligible, community charge and lease/ground rent charges, about £140 a month which is offset by other gains - it offers a fallback in case the Thailand wheel falls off but also provides for new experiences and travel opportunities.

I'd have trouble limiting myself to only 2 months in Somerset!!

[phutoie2]

If you are concerned then perhaps you should hedge your bets, perhaps make a retirement visa your Plan A, just decide what your Plan B is. FWIW my plan A is continued retirement in Thailand but I've just bought a small flat in Somerset which I will use as a base for two or three months each year. The holding cost of the flat is negligible, community charge and lease/ground rent charges, about £140 a month which is offset by other gains - it offers a fallback in case the Thailand wheel falls off but also provides for new experiences and travel opportunities.

I'd have trouble limiting myself to only 2 months in Somerset!!

last time I visited it was a bit wet.

[Mister Fixit]

I think you should find a hobby and not waste your time with nonsense bandwidth wasting non-posts

[chiang mai]

If you are concerned then perhaps you should hedge your bets, perhaps make a retirement visa your Plan A, just decide what your Plan B is. FWIW my plan A is continued retirement in Thailand but I've just bought a small flat in Somerset which I will use as a base for two or three months each year. The holding cost of the flat is negligible, community charge and lease/ground rent charges, about £140 a month which is offset by other gains - it offers a fallback in case the Thailand wheel falls off but also provides for new experiences and travel opportunities.

I'd have trouble limiting myself to only 2 months in Somerset!!

last time I visited it was a bit wet.

Last time I visited the place was under two feet of water, good job it's a first floor flat!

[moe666]

Changes in immigration law is the last thing I worry about,what I am going to have for breakfast and where is a bigger worry

[ttthailand]

I am not concerned but I do see some possible situations that could be a concern. Unlike in our own countries where there are people or NPOs who can assist you here we tend to relay on our wife's or girlfriends who may or may not be the best suited to address our problems.

Example: health related issues that keep you from going to immigration for your extensions. Will you be on overstay and thrown out of country or will they understand and say not a problem?

How about Alzheimer's and you lack the ability to keep your affairs in order, will they deport you if you are unable to sign you name or even remember who you are ?

The 800,000 rule for retirement has been in place for a long time, when will they increase the requirement? Will you be able to cover the required increase?

Perhaps always best to have a plan B just in case, even if you are 80 and feeling good.

After you have put all your eggs in one basket if something happened it would be difficult when you are old and not healthy to try to put everything back in order and start new again back in your home country.

[chiang mai]

I am not concerned but I do see some possible situations that could be a concern. Unlike in our own countries where there are people or NPOs who can assist you here we tend to relay on our wife's or girlfriends who may or may not be the best suited to address our problems.

Example: health related issues that keep you from going to immigration for your extensions. Will you be on overstay and thrown out of country or will they understand and say not a problem?

How about Alzheimer's and you lack the ability to keep your affairs in order, will they deport you if you are unable to sign you name or even remember who you are ?

The 800,000 rule for retirement has been in place for a long time, when will they increase the requirement? Will you be able to cover the required increase?

Perhaps always best to have a plan B just in case, even if you are 80 and feeling good.

After you have put all your eggs in one basket if something happened it would be difficult when you are old and not healthy to try to put everything back in order and start new again back in your home country.

You can always use a visa agent as a fall back and of course, if you are hospitalized then the hospital will manage your visa/immigration needs..

As for the 800K: like others, I don't believe the amount will be increased any time soon, if it were to be so I believe existing visa holders would be grandfathered, there I said it, the GF word!

Finally, I seem to be hearing more and more about protected care facilities for people with the likes of Alzheimer's, I met a Dutch lady in Sriphat two years ago who had committed her husband to one such establishment and she spoke really highly of it. I also met a farang recently in Doi Saket who was in the process of opening such a home, sorry I don't have any more details but facilities like that are now becoming more common.

[bertty]

You don't have anymore details, or you cant remember them ?

[Suradit69]

Nope!

Nope also.