Retirees, are you worried that the rules might change?

[SPALAX]

To obtain Thai citizenship is almost impossible, particularly for a man. Aprrox. 10 obtain it each year.

However, you can get a Resident Permit, 200 000 THB for life plus about 50 000 THB for the lawyer. Not easy to get but possible. You can find information about that on TVF.

Increases of deposit/income are highly possible, but should be quite reasonable.

Don't worry, be happy

[Bernard Flint]

The main thing that would make me leave would be if Thailand started taxing me on my worldwide income as opposed to just my Thai income (which is zero). If that happened I would probably be gone long before the dust settled anyway.

Anyone who stays in Thailand more than 180 days in a calendar year is a tax resident in Thailand in that calendar year, and is eligible to pay tax on all his/her income, wherever it is generated. There may be double-taxation agreements that come into play, but that is the general rule.

You may be rather be referring to enforcement, which is a different matter.

Where did you dig that from

[Farang99]

I have seen nothing to make me think there is any impending changes. In fact the new police order that goes into effect on the 29th has no changes for retirement extensions.

In my opinion there will never be another change to the age to qualify. Nor a requirement to spend the money here.

I cannot see them raising the financial requirements any time soon. It is already well above what is needed to live here.

I have a concern that the finacial qualifications might well change in line with inflation. The last time was quite a shock when it was raised from 200,000 to 800,000.. If a similar rise were to be enforced now, I and, I suspect many others would be in trouble.

[jpinx]

Well. with the exception of a couple of posters who generally agree with me, I am very heartened to see the optimism and lack of concern about this subject.

But perhaps the words 'ostrich', 'head' and 'sand' spring to mind.....

One reason why I've been thinking about this topic are the changing demographics and spheres of political interest/influence in Thailand.

Thailand, IMHO, is looking fairly and squarely towards ASEAN and China for it's future. The influence and importance of 'western' powers is diminishing. The revenue contributed by western retirees is completely insignificant to the equation, (you might think your financial contributions are an important consideration, but I can assure you that retiree financial 'muscle' and influence is a mere knat's whisker).

Foreign retirees are tolerated, but there is no comparision to eg My Second Home programme from Malaysia. A one-year visa-extension is all you get.

A plan B is always a good idea - I have a proven plan B. I suspect that many retirees have no plan B, and would be in serious trouble if the retirement visa rules were tightened up.

Everyone's circumstances are different, so everyone views the situation differently. Finances are not going to change much given that the current requirement is easily enough to fund a non-alcoholic pensioners life here. The 800k requirement is a bit of a joke given that it can be used to get the visa and then spent the next day. The proof of regular income makes much more sense. I think healthcare might well become the biggest factor, but given that most farangs appear to use private hospitals the impact on the governments purse is not great.

Yes - Thailand is looking to be a member of ASEAN, but that's a very young organisation and they have many big issues to deal with. It's nothing like how the establishment of the EU went.

You mention incentives, and indeed there are several, but there's no reason why a new government in Thailand might not introduce one too -- aimed at the high-end pensioners.

[JLCrab]

Sure -- but someone who has continuously been on extension via retirement since the 200,000 per year deposit or 20,000 baht per month income was in effect still has only to comply with that provision as in the new police order it states at 2.22:

(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been

consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following

criteria: (etc.)

Edited August 24, 2014 by JLCrab

[bertty]

Well. with the exception of a couple of posters who generally agree with me, I am very heartened to see the optimism and lack of concern about this subject.

But perhaps the words 'ostrich', 'head' and 'sand' spring to mind.....

One reason why I've been thinking about this topic are the changing demographics and spheres of political interest/influence in Thailand.

Thailand, IMHO, is looking fairly and squarely towards ASEAN and China for it's future. The influence and importance of 'western' powers is diminishing. The revenue contributed by western retirees is completely insignificant to the equation, (you might think your financial contributions are an important consideration, but I can assure you that retiree financial 'muscle' and influence is a mere knat's whisker).

Foreign retirees are tolerated, but there is no comparision to eg My Second Home programme from Malaysia. A one-year visa-extension is all you get.

A plan B is always a good idea - I have a proven plan B. I suspect that many retirees have no plan B, and would be in serious trouble if the retirement visa rules were tightened up.

Everyone's circumstances are different, so everyone views the situation differently. Finances are not going to change much given that the current requirement is easily enough to fund a non-alcoholic pensioners life here. The 800k requirement is a bit of a joke given that it can be used to get the visa and then spent the next day. The proof of regular income makes much more sense. I think healthcare might well become the biggest factor, but given that most farangs appear to use private hospitals the impact on the governments purse is not great.

Yes - Thailand is looking to be a member of ASEAN, but that's a very young organisation and they have many big issues to deal with. It's nothing like how the establishment of the EU went.

You mention incentives, and indeed there are several, but there's no reason why a new government in Thailand might not introduce one too -- aimed at the high-end pensioners.

A high end pensioner, is that someone that doesn't dribble?

[JockPieandBeans]

I have seen nothing to make me think there is any impending changes. In fact the new police order that goes into effect on the 29th has no changes for retirement extensions.

In my opinion there will never be another change to the age to qualify. Nor a requirement to spend the money here.

I cannot see them raising the financial requirements any time soon. It is already well above what is needed to live here.

I have a concern that the finacial qualifications might well change in line with inflation. The last time was quite a shock when it was raised from 200,000 to 800,000.. If a similar rise were to be enforced now, I and, I suspect many others would be in trouble.

Why would they be in trouble ?

If they have the 800k sitting in the bank, and the money was raised drastically, 500k for Elite card and then you have 5 years planning space.

[ttthailand]

I see no point in this thread

I see no point to your post

[smedly]

Where does all the money in Thailand come from ?

We are told retirees contribute next to nothing.

Tourist contribute next to nothing.

Expat business contribute next to nothing.

Do these rice farmers really put so much into the economy that no outsider is needed?

P.S. What is the difference between a western and a Chinese retiree?

I have several friends come here twice a year on holiday, add the expenditure of all of them into a 12 month period wouldn't even be a fraction of what I spend and I am by no means any sort of big spender - probably about 50k baht per month x12 600k baht a year and that does not include my 2x a year trip home, I don't include that as it is not income to Thailand

I also know many other expats living here who must be spending the same or more than me, there are many businesses that rely on the expat community for survival

The message here is - do not underestimate the income Thailand earns from it's expat community - it is steady reliable and sizeable

[enuff said]

.

Not to worry as 3 -4 other nations, with far better handling of ex pats, are providing incentives to relocate - some already have and more will do so as stupid rules like 90 reporting continue and ,maybe , worsen. Many of the freedoms ex pats came here for are either limited, banned or, a crime ! Other nations act as adults !

True. But no matter what; people are scratching and clawing and jumping how high to live here. Whyzat? Ten thousand posts on this ONE forum can't be wrong.

For every sombish who jumps ship and goes to Cambodia, he meets another sombish coming back to Thailand 'cause HE's had it with THAT place. It's all on here. Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Malaysia, S'pore, Phil., China: they all come back. And they write about it on here. There must be 100s more who don't post on TVF.

So go live in an "adult nation" Gees, sounds like bales of fun already.

'nuff said

~

[SiggiCM]

all your questions are sorry but very stupid, as by law you cant change the requirements what are set up already,

you can change only for future retirements, people who are here cant be forced to make visa runs or have more money,

some of the retire people who came here in the 90´th or before they have only mto show 200000 Baht,

if your time is so bouring over weekend, may be you should start playing golf or online poker

and not ask something what cant happend

[Globalist]

The main thing that would make me leave would be if Thailand started taxing me on my worldwide income as opposed to just my Thai income (which is zero). If that happened I would probably be gone long before the dust settled anyway.

Anyone who stays in Thailand more than 180 days in a calendar year is a tax resident in Thailand in that calendar year, and is eligible to pay tax on all his/her income, wherever it is generated. There may be double-taxation agreements that come into play, but that is the general rule.

You may be rather be referring to enforcement, which is a different matter.

Where did you dig that from

Sorry, that assumes that you are not domiciled in your country of citizenship of course. If you are, then your worldwide income, including income in Thailand (subject to double-taxation agreements), is taxable in your country of citizenship as a rule.

Also, US citizens are always taxed by the US for all their income worldwide, no matter what.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Globalist

[jpinx]

How many retirement extensions are currently valid x 65,000 x 12 = a considerable input into the Thai economy

[jpinx]

The main thing that would make me leave would be if Thailand started taxing me on my worldwide income as opposed to just my Thai income (which is zero). If that happened I would probably be gone long before the dust settled anyway.

Anyone who stays in Thailand more than 180 days in a calendar year is a tax resident in Thailand in that calendar year, and is eligible to pay tax on all his/her income, wherever it is generated. There may be double-taxation agreements that come into play, but that is the general rule.

You may be rather be referring to enforcement, which is a different matter.

Where did you dig that from

Sorry, that assumes that you are not domiciled in your country of citizenship of course. If you are, then your worldwide income, including income in Thailand (subject to double-taxation agreements), is taxable in your country of citizenship as a rule.

Also, US citizens are always taxed by the US for all their income worldwide, no matter what.

You only speak for USA people.. Every country has it's own rules and for sure you don't know them

[SoFarAndNear]

The 800k in the bank, if you are not spending it already what money are you living on ?

I am sure there are some retirees who have 800k THB in a bank account but can't afford it too spend so much money. If they will start to add a new regulation that you have to show proof that you will send every year 800k THB from abroad to get another year extension this will probably break the neck of many old fellas.

[bertty]

The 800k in the bank, if you are not spending it already what money are you living on ?

I am sure there are some retirees who have 800k THB in a bank account but can't afford it too spend so much money. If they will start to add a new regulation that you have to show proof that you will send every year 800k THB from abroad to get another year extension this will probably break the neck of many old fellas.

Please explain how someone could prove spending 800,000 a year? Would I need to start asking for a receipt for the 2 baht pee or poo I took ?

[Saan]

If you are concerned then perhaps you should hedge your bets, perhaps make a retirement visa your Plan A, just decide what your Plan B is. FWIW my plan A is continued retirement in Thailand but I've just bought a small flat in Somerset which I will use as a base for two or three months each year. The holding cost of the flat is negligible, community charge and lease/ground rent charges, about £140 a month which is offset by other gains - it offers a fallback in case the Thailand wheel falls off but also provides for new experiences and travel opportunities.

I'd have trouble limiting myself to only 2 months in Somerset!!

My favourite place in England apart from having to a bit wary of the scrumpy.

[simon43]

people who are here cant be forced to make visa runs or have more money,

Ha ha!! Ostrich, head and sand are shouting at me!!

Anything can change - don't be so naive to think otherwise.

[bangkoklasse]

No I'm not worried. And it's also easy to get a non O or non O-A visa in my homecountry. I could live here with any of thse. Especially the O-A would give me 2 years in Thailand with one border run

[oneday]

Nothing at all in the current changes of visas have even hinted at any changes to the "Retirement Visa".

Not in the least bit worried.

[SoFarAndNear]

The 800k in the bank, if you are not spending it already what money are you living on ?

I am sure there are some retirees who have 800k THB in a bank account but can't afford it too spend so much money. If they will start to add a new regulation that you have to show proof that you will send every year 800k THB from abroad to get another year extension this will probably break the neck of many old fellas.

Please explain how someone could prove spending 800,000 a year? Would I need to start asking for a receipt for the 2 baht pee or poo I took ?

I don't say proof of spending. I mean proof of bringing another 800k from abroad after the first year when you apply for the second year.

[evadgib]

If anything it might go down if a gaggle of Thai wives sue the state for discrimination once ASEAN kicks in:)

(Why are Thai males with foreign wives exempt from financial hurdles?)

[JLCrab]

people who are here cant be forced to make visa runs or have more money,

Ha ha!! Ostrich, head and sand are shouting at me!!

Anything can change - don't be so naive to think otherwise.

So Simon about the best you can do to counter any future changes (if any) is to get on a extension of stay via retirement ASAP and do not let it lapse as on the last revision those 'consecutively' on such extension since a few years earlier were exempted from the new regs.

Edited August 24, 2014 by JLCrab

[jongunnar]

No, I'm not worried. I do think about the future but see no need to conjure up any bad news. I will follow the rules and live by them as best I can.

If they gets to complicated and makes me jump to much around, well then I will have to make adjustments. Move back, or find a new quiet spot to settle down.

So in short, I really don't worry.

[bertty]

The 800k in the bank, if you are not spending it already what money are you living on ?

I am sure there are some retirees who have 800k THB in a bank account but can't afford it too spend so much money. If they will start to add a new regulation that you have to show proof that you will send every year 800k THB from abroad to get another year extension this will probably break the neck of many old fellas.

Please explain how someone could prove spending 800,000 a year? Would I need to start asking for a receipt for the 2 baht pee or poo I took ?

I don't say proof of spending. I mean proof of bringing another 800k from abroad after the first year when you apply for the second year.

Just as easy. Send the 800,000 back to your home bank, then resubmit it when needed. No proof of spending, no proof of where it went.

[NoshowJones]

The only thing I can imagine them introducing is some kind of compulsory health care insurance. The current government has already tried to tighten other aspects of immigration rules only to relax them again as soon as they actually realised what they were doing and it was hurting. Retirees might not be a huge source of revenue for Thailand, but it's a steady earner and no hassle for them.

+1. You can count on this happening. Most others countries already require it in order to get a visa.

I also think it is a good thing.

It is not a good thing, and never will be as long as insurance companies, like banks, keep squeezing as much as they can from you.

[NoshowJones]

I personally think Thailand should require from all retirees proof of income of at least 65,000 baht/month (which is about 800,000 baht/year) and get rid of the 800,000 baht in a bank account rule. Right now, there are way too many people on a tiny pension who choose to live here and do not significantly contribute to the economy.

what's wrong with a retiree who spends his "tiny pension" in Thailand without being a burden on Thai public spending?

Because they are usually the ones you see either walking around in a wifebeater or glued to a barstool from 10AM til midnight. Not really the type of quality tourists/foreigners Thailand wants to attract.

You talk a load of nonsense, how can a retiree on a small pension afford to be glued to a barstool from 10am till midnight?

[JLCrab]

If there were compulsory medical insurance required it would have to be done on some group policy basis as too many post-50 (and maybe pre-50) individuals would have to answer YES to too many Medical History questions on an individual policy basis.

Edited August 24, 2014 by JLCrab

[Johnniey]

I personally think Thailand should require from all retirees proof of income of at least 65,000 baht/month (which is about 800,000 baht/year) and get rid of the 800,000 baht in a bank account rule. Right now, there are way too many people on a tiny pension who choose to live here and do not significantly contribute to the economy.

OMG. When I retire in 7 years, I'll have been living and working here for 35 years.Ill get around 20k baht a month and you want to kick me out; are you demented?

Are you saying you should be able to walk in just because you have money?

[jpinx]

If there were compulsory medical insurance required it would have to be done on some group policy basis as too many post-50 (and maybe pre-50) individuals would have to answer YES to too many Medical History questions on an individual policy basis.

I have to agree with you, but the insurance might be only for basic care to get you on a plane and off to your own country. The other possibility - admittedly a long shot - is that Thailand sets up a reciprocity agreement with farang countries for basic healthcare.