How long must you stay out to avoid being accused of being a visa runner.

[dg1980]

Seems like many people are now trying to skirt the rules, which they are now supposed to be enforcing. Yes, that means what you are attempting to do is illegal. This must be the umpteenth post for clarification, seeking some technicality by which they can continue to stay in Thailand longer than their circumstances allow for.

To avoid interpretation problems, perhaps it may be clearer for you to ignore the various interpretations of the letter of the law floating around on this forum, and focus more on the spirit of the law (since that is likely how the immigration officer will be evaluating whether or not you are a border runner). The spirit of the law means to prevent people from using tourist visas (or visa-on-arrival) to live or work here illegally. If it is your intention to live or work here, you must obtain the correct visa, or risk the consequences.

So ask yourself (and be honest now), are you trying to live or work here illegally using tourist visas (or visa-on-arrival) to do so. If you answered yes to that question, then you will likely have a hard time convincing the border guard otherwise, given the number of, and dates of the stamps in your passport. Absence of onward ticket, or hotel vouchers and other things common to tourists on holiday will further weaken your case.

[TheSpade]

If it is your intention to live or work here, you must obtain the correct visa, or risk the consequences.

The problem is though for those people who don't want to work in Thailand but would like to live there and aren't old enough to qualify for the retirement visa there's not a visa they can use to "live" there.

They can either come as "long term" tourists on back to back visas or get an education visa and study for a period of time. Or waste money on an elite card that may or may not be valid in the future.

But there's no visa that will allow them to live there. The current visa options only allow for temporary stay.

[JLCrab]

Matters of long-term stay in any country do not just reflect economic policy but also reflect social policy.

[jacksam]

Seems lot of people think that can live in any country indefinitely. Which of course is not the case. They need to satisfy certain criteria.

Take AU for example and this is where i am from. We do not give 30 visa exempt stamps and many other liberal visa options that Thailand does.

There are good visa options to obtain suitable visas for Thailand. Get one that suits your needs and is issued under thai rules

[dg1980]

If it is your intention to live or work here, you must obtain the correct visa, or risk the consequences.

The problem is though for those people who don't want to work in Thailand but would like to live there and aren't old enough to qualify for the retirement visa there's not a visa they can use to "live" there.

They can either come as "long term" tourists on back to back visas or get an education visa and study for a period of time. Or waste money on an elite card that may or may not be valid in the future.

But there's no visa that will allow them to live there. The current visa options only allow for temporary stay.

Correct, that is a problem for people of those circumstances, however- they do not possess some divine right to live in Thailand. They are subject to the laws of the Kingdom. Choosing to become a "long term" tourist is cleary an attempt to circumvent the rules, and therefore illegal, and punishable by the authorities.

You seem to frame your response with the idea that these people are being deprived of a right they should be entitled to, and therefore their flouting of the rules is justified.

[paz]

Correct, that is a problem for people of those circumstances, however- they do not possess some divine right to live in Thailand. They are subject to the laws of the Kingdom. Choosing to become a "long term" tourist is cleary an attempt to circumvent the rules, and therefore illegal, and punishable by the authorities.

You seem to frame your response with the idea that these people are being deprived of a right they should be entitled to, and therefore their flouting of the rules is justified.

There are no rules against being a long term tourist in Thailand.

You seem to frame your response with uncalled judgement about other's actions.

[paz]

Seems lot of people think that can live in any country indefinitely. Which of course is not the case. They need to satisfy certain criteria.

Take AU for example and this is where i am from. We do not give 30 visa exempt stamps and many other liberal visa options that Thailand does.

There are good visa options to obtain suitable visas for Thailand. Get one that suits your needs and is issued under thai rules

I wonder why people often feel the urge to take their country as a comparison to Thailand, when really no comparison is appropriate.

Beside, I traveled various times to Australia visa exempt (eVisitor). Each entry is granted for three months, and is free.

[jacksam]

Seems lot of people think that can live in any country indefinitely. Which of course is not the case. They need to satisfy certain criteria.

Take AU for example and this is where i am from. We do not give 30 visa exempt stamps and many other liberal visa options that Thailand does.

There are good visa options to obtain suitable visas for Thailand. Get one that suits your needs and is issued under thai rules

I wonder why people often feel the urge to take their country as a comparison to Thailand, when really no comparison is appropriate.

Beside, I traveled various times to Australia visa exempt (eVisitor). Each entry is granted for three months, and is free.

thats because your farang. Meaning from a "special country" lets just compare Thailand to Thailand, its their country and their laws. We all should try and follow them and not whinge

[dg1980]

Correct, that is a problem for people of those circumstances, however- they do not possess some divine right to live in Thailand. They are subject to the laws of the Kingdom. Choosing to become a "long term" tourist is cleary an attempt to circumvent the rules, and therefore illegal, and punishable by the authorities.

You seem to frame your response with the idea that these people are being deprived of a right they should be entitled to, and therefore their flouting of the rules is justified.

There are no rules against being a long term tourist in Thailand.

You seem to frame your response with uncalled judgement about other's actions.

Actually, there are rules against being a "long term" tourist, which is the topic of discussion here, and the Thai immigration authorities, according to the existing laws, have expressed the desire to crack down on. I use the term long-term tourist to mean to refer to people using tourist visas (or visa exemptions) for the purpose of living or working in Thailand illegally.

If you are referring to people coming for 60 or 90 day holidays, as tourists, in a single stay and not returning immediately (or shortly thereafter) for another, or trying to circumvent the existing immigration laws with tourist visas, then we are speaking of different things, and by your definition of long-term tourist, your post may be correct.

Last time I checked, this was a public forum designed for open discussion and expression facts, views and opinions. The fact that my post does not suit your particular taste or speaks directly to the difficulty you or anyone else may be having in finding legitimate means to stay in Thailand does not make it an uncalled for judgement, sir.

[jacksam]

You traveled to au on that visa because you are farang. Lets just compare Thailand to Thailand. Its their rules and their laws. Obey them.

[paz]

Last time I checked, this was a public forum designed for open discussion and expression facts, views and opinions. The fact that my post does not suit your particular taste or speaks directly to the difficulty you or anyone else may be having in finding legitimate means to stay in Thailand does not make it an uncalled for judgement, sir.

Precisely because this is an open forum I stand my opinion that your monotonous postings filled by misplace righteousness are uncalled judgement on matters about which, fortunately, you have little weight in deciding.

[jacksam]

Ok Newbie I accept your point however its a fine line. I have lived here 2 years. Only left every month for 5 days or so.clearly I am not a tourist.....im living here. Hence now i go down the non imm o with extension based on retirement. No problem. If I was under 50 I would look at other options for a visa. Certainly stamps every 30 days wont cut it. Not should continual tourist visa renewls, but thats up to thai imm not me.

[dg1980]

Last time I checked, this was a public forum designed for open discussion and expression facts, views and opinions. The fact that my post does not suit your particular taste or speaks directly to the difficulty you or anyone else may be having in finding legitimate means to stay in Thailand does not make it an uncalled for judgement, sir.

Precisely because this is an open forum I stand my opinion that your monotonous postings filled by misplace righteousness are uncalled judgement on matters about which, fortunately, you have little weight in deciding.

Your reasoning is seriously wanting. My weight in deciding on these matters (none) has no bearing on the existence/enforcement of the laws, or how immigration officials will decide on cases involving "long term tourists".

I made no judgements, simply stated the facts. I leave the judgement to the immigration officials, charged with that duty by the Thai government.

[paz]

You traveled to au on that visa because you are farang. Lets just compare Thailand to Thailand. Its their rules and their laws. Obey them.

If you (that aren't Thai) like to define someone 'farang' please restrict that to yourself and your friends, thanks.

Edited August 27, 2014 by paz

[TheSpade]

Correct, that is a problem for people of those circumstances, however- they do not possess some divine right to live in Thailand. They are subject to the laws of the Kingdom. Choosing to become a "long term" tourist is cleary an attempt to circumvent the rules, and therefore illegal, and punishable by the authorities.

You seem to frame your response with the idea that these people are being deprived of a right they should be entitled to, and therefore their flouting of the rules is justified.

No I don't think myself or anyone else i entitled to the right to stay in Thailand. It's up to Thailand to decide even if they do make silly decisions that make little sense.

But you said..

"If it is your intention to live or work here, you must obtain the correct visa, or risk the consequences."

That sort of implies that if you want to live there that there is a "correct visa" one can obtain when in many circumstances there isn't.

There are no rules against being a long term tourist in Thailand.

Indeed.

Thailand issues triple entry tourist visas allowing visitors to stay for up to 9 months then leave the country and come right back in again on another tourist visa

I don't think they've said they aren't allowing this in the future but in fact that people not on any sort of visa and doing back to back border runs should get a visa instead,

Take AU for example and this is where i am from. We do not give 30 visa exempt stamps and many other liberal visa options that Thailand does.

Your country allowed me to spend 30 seconds applying for a visa online and then stay there for a year without leaving.

Two if I'd wanted to stay longer.

It even allowed me the option to work if I chose to.

Not as strict as you're making out.

I can't legally stay in Thailand for a year as a tourist without leaving and coming back and I certainly can't work there.

There are good visa options to obtain suitable visas for Thailand. Get one that suits your needs and is issued under thai rules

Again though for some people NONE of the visas are suitable so they can't get a visa that suits their needs and is issued under Thai rules...there isn't one.

So don't make out Thailand has visas for all situations because it seems as if you're implying people just don't want to get the visa or are too lazy to?

In some cases there just isn't a suitable visa.

[Ling Kae]

Why should they say allow someone with ONE exempt stamp exit the country and re enter obtain another.

Because a lot of people are geniune tourists who travel quite a bit and are in the country only a short time. For example some young backpackers are on South East Asia tours to multiple countries. They start off in BKK and then head off to Laos. Then go to Vietnam and Cambodia and back into Thailand. They spend only a few days in at the beggining and the end in Thailand. This is where the 30 stamp comes in very handy and it is not worthwhile them getting tourist visas just for a couple of days. I think the targeting of back to back same day in/out free stamps is a good idea, it stops the abusers but doesn't hinder the genuine travellers.

[jacksam]

Why should they say allow someone with ONE exempt stamp exit the country and re enter obtain another.

Because a lot of people are geniune tourists who travel quite a bit and are in the country only a short time. For example some young backpackers are on South East Asia tours to multiple countries. They start off in BKK and then head off to Laos. Then go to Vietnam and Cambodia and back into Thailand. They spend only a few days in at the beggining and the end in Thailand. This is where the 30 stamp comes in very handy and it is not worthwhile them getting tourist visas just for a couple of days. I think the targeting of back to back same day in/out free stamps is a good idea, it stops the abusers but doesn't hinder the genuine travellers.

I was referring to people using a visa exempt stamp to stay virtually in thailand on a continuous basis, except for brief visa runs. Aften an hour.

This was the implied intention of the posts.

[jacksam]

The OP said " how long do you have to stay out to avoid...."

Clearly he is asking how long can he stay in Thailand using stamps.

He should get a tourist visa or other visa

[Ling Kae]

The OP said " how long do you have to stay out to avoid...."

Clearly he is asking how long can he stay in Thailand using stamps.

He should get a tourist visa or other visa

OK, cheers, sorry for any misunderstanding.

[jspill]

Actually, there are rules against being a "long term" tourist, which is the topic of discussion here, and the Thai immigration authorities, according to the existing laws, have expressed the desire to crack down on. I use the term long-term tourist to mean to refer to people using tourist visas (or visa exemptions) for the purpose of living or working in Thailand illegally.

There are no rules against or crackdown on people using tourist visas for the purpose of living in Thailand LEGALLY, i.e. not engaged in criminal activities or breaking the laws. A long term tourist who isn't dealing drugs or stealing jobs from Thais has little to be concerned about.

To quote Ubonjoe, there is no limit on the number of successive tourist visas you can use to stay here, it's just that some consulates are less friendly than others. That's the only minor concern for the under 50 crowd.

If one gets a note 'this is your last visa' at Vientiane after several double entry visas, they can try their home country for a triple entry. Or renew their passport for a fresh one, it'll be mostly full by then anyway. Or take a few months off outside Thailand. Or simply switch to an Ed visa.

Some of these 'forever tourists' / students stay here decades before turning 50, at which point it just goes from manageable to easy.

[jacksam]

Ummm above post mentions "simply switch to an ed visa" ....maybe no so simple and cheap in future. Ubone gives expert advice and we all appreciate it......having said that ...he does not have a crystal ball. First targeted was abuse of stamp with visa runs. They have softened crackdown on that by allowing 30 day extension.

What next....crackdown on ad infinitum tourists visas. Yep this would be in line with most countries polices.

Good luck being smug about future of abused tourist visas.

I live here like many of us......im not visiting as a tourist. I need appropriate visa. WE ALL DO . Under 50 or over is irrelevant