Chiang Mai 1967

[kerryk]

I am writing an article on Chiang Mai and a 100 mule caravan that was supposed to have arrived here in 1967 and was guarded by KMT soldiers. Does anyone know any Farang who lived here that long ago. I was here in 1968 briefly and only heard rumors about it.

[Blinky Bill]

I am writing an article on Chiang Mai and a 100 mule caravan that was supposed to have arrived here in 1967 and was guarded by KMT soldiers. Does anyone know any Farang who lived here that long ago. I was here in 1968 briefly and only heard rumors about it.

Try Roy Hudson. I think he is still with us. British Consul should have his contact details.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

I am writing an article on Chiang Mai and a 100 mule caravan that was supposed to have arrived here in 1967 and was guarded by KMT soldiers. Does anyone know any Farang who lived here that long ago. I was here in 1968 briefly and only heard rumors about it.

The lady who makes the Molly-Made jam that they sell in some of the supermarkets has been here for about 50 years. Her name is Molly

She lives on Ratchapakinai Road. If you head up Ratchamankaand go left onto Ratchapakinai her's is the first townhouse on the left-hand side of the road.

PS. If she does know anything about it, be prepared to buy a few jars of jam first!

Edited July 11, 2006 by The Dan Sai Kid

[SamSipEt]

I am writing an article on Chiang Mai and a 100 mule caravan that was supposed to have arrived here in 1967 and was guarded by KMT soldiers. Does anyone know any Farang who lived here that long ago. I was here in 1968 briefly and only heard rumors about it.

Try Roy Hudson. I think he is still with us. British Consul should have his contact details.

Or try The Pub he goes there sometimes. Also have some other rather crusty (in the nicest possible way) drinkers visitng occasionally

[Luna]

I am writing an article on Chiang Mai and a 100 mule caravan that was supposed to have arrived here in 1967 and was guarded by KMT soldiers. Does anyone know any Farang who lived here that long ago. I was here in 1968 briefly and only heard rumors about it.

Sorry to be naive, but what is this all about, you have me intrigued!

[SamSipEt]

I am writing an article on Chiang Mai and a 100 mule caravan that was supposed to have arrived here in 1967 and was guarded by KMT soldiers. Does anyone know any Farang who lived here that long ago. I was here in 1968 briefly and only heard rumors about it.

Sorry to be naive, but what is this all about, you have me intrigued!

Good question! Perhaps the article could be posted here in all its glory for us to read? Please

[kerryk]

I don’t know how much detail you want me to go into but I will try a short synopsis. At the end of WW II there were two Chinese divisions left in Burma or thereabouts that reported to the Chinese national government and Chang Kai Shek.

They were in Burma to attack the Japanese and more importantly to invade China and attack the Communists. They were supplied by air from China. These are the KMT.

After the war for a variety of reasons they left Burma and marched into Thailand. The supplies grew less and less from China and they supported themselves in a variety of ways one having to do with poppies. They became one of the three major poppy players in the region at the time.

At one time they guarded the borders of Northern Thailand collecting a tax for all of the poppy products that came into Thailand from Burma sharing the proceeds of the tax with the Thais.

In 1968 there were 50,000 American troops in Thailand tasked with stopping the movement of supplies on the Ho Chi Minh trail mainly by bombing and recruiting any indigenous forces that were available.

I was a low ranking member of the US armed forces stationed in Vietnam and responsible for aviation safety of helicopters and fixed wing aircraft in a variety of areas in SEA and in addition I wrote for a couple of Army publications.

One of the stories I wrote dealt with R&R in Taipei. While writing that story I had the opportunity to meet Chang Kai Shek and Madame Chang Kai Shek. Madam Chang Kai Shek had been educated at the University of Georgia in the US and spoke English with a Southern accent. For one reason or another (it is a long story) she requested my temporary duty be extended a couple of weeks so I could show her cooks how to cure and smoke a ham. I was given quarters in the palace which was really a lot of fun.

Later in the scheme of things I was assigned to Thailand to assist in some technical details of aircraft flight checks.

Upon my arrival in LOS some idiot looked at my Army file and noticed I had a personal relationship with the Generalissimo Chang Kai Shek, which was of course not accurate.

The US at the time was dissatisfied with the existing relationship with the KMT and I was ordered to Chiang Mai to establish contact.

Chiang Mai at the time was the playground for the people involved in the poppy business and was supposed to be flourishing with gambling and dens of ill repute among other things.

I never found the KMT nor the other things which is probably just as well because I only spoke 20 words of Chinese and most of them had to do with anatomy (the two weeks in the palace in Taipei was really a lot of fun). I did however hear many rumors about large mule caravans filled with poppy products arriving in Chiang Mai, the last one being in 1967.

In any event, I thought it would be interesting to put my personal experiences in a historical context and write a article about the times in Northern Thailand in 1968.

[sabaijai]

Sounds like the event you describe may have been related to the infamous 1967 Opium War (between Khun Sa and the KMT), well covered in Alfred McCoy's Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia. There are also exhibits related to the war at the Opium Exhibition Hall near Chiang Saen/Sop Ruak in Chiang Rai Province.

Three films by UK filmmaker Adrian Cowell may also shed some light: The Opium Trail (1966), The Opium Warlords (1974) and Opium (1978).

Adrian Cowell interview

[jomama]

There is also the book Lords of the Rim, which deals with overseas Chinese, and in Thailand, particularly the Teochu group. At any rate, there is a recounting of a an armed standoff between the Thai police and the Thai army over opium shipments, complete with tanks -- not over who got to sieze them, but who got to transport the stuff once in Thailand.

The book does cover the KMT and the various groups controlling and transporting opium in Thailand and Laos.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

My father's a history buff, is retired and loves to talk about Thai history, you can contact him, John Shaw, at 053 222571. I am sure that he will be more than happy to help. He has been in Thailand for 40 years.

[Ulysses G.]

My father's a history buff, is retired and loves to talk about Thai history, you can contact him, John Shaw, at 053 222571. I am sure that he will be more than happy to help. He has been in Thailand for 40 years.

Pim Shaw wrote an interesting book about growing up in the Chiang Mai area as a luk krung if you can find it.

[Luna]

Interesting stuff! I really like reading things like this. Sounds like you had an interesting time. I think i'll check out these books that have been mentioned as well.

Thank-you for explaining.

Edited July 12, 2006 by Luna

[SamSipEt]

Interesting stuff! I really like reading things like this. Sounds like you had an interesting time. I think i'll check out these books that have been mentioned as well.

Thank-you for explaining.

Seconded - thanks Kerryk

[kerryk]

Thank you very much for the information. I wrote a lot during the time I was in the service because I had two columns per week to turn out and edit one magazine but the writing was technical and completely boring. I wrote about things like rotor hubs and hover checks, not the stuff of adventure novels. Plus I was too darn young to realize what was going on around me. I met some very interesting people but it never occurred to me to keep a journal or do any interviews.

BTW is Pim Shaw and John Shaw the same person?

[SamSipEt]

BTW is Pim Shaw and John Shaw the same person?

Almost – Father and Daughter (but not in that order)

[Roadman]

Hi Kerry

I can put you in touch with a farang friend here in New Zealand that was in Chiangmai in the early 60's. He is a Kiwi and was working as an engineer, in the area. He (Alex) married a local Chiangmai girl, Pat. Together they opened the first farang bar (Pat's Bar) in Chiangmai in I think about 1966. I can recall him saying that at the time there was a large RAF presence in the area, and the bar was opened in order to cash in on that. They were there until selling the bar in about the mid 70's.

[Loaded]

BTW is Pim Shaw and John Shaw the same person?

Almost – Father and Daughter (but not in that order)

John Shaw MBE former Honorary British Consul to Chiang Mai.

[Johpa]

I too have read the reports of large caravans in some of the books previously listed, such as McCoy's most excellent book. But I think the reference to Chiang Mai refers to the province and not the city, so I doubt local residents of that time would know of details of the caravans that were staged to the far north of the province. If you can find a Thai or Chinese translator you might head up to the KMT villages to the west of Fang and try to interview some of the old timers there who might have been directly involved.

Another ex-pat who you might track down familar with this facet of local history is Lintner.

[Mali_in_CM]

Kerryk,

Interesting stuff.

I have an Australian friend who's arriving this evening [nice timing] and who worked in CM for several years starting about 1967. I'll ask him.

If you need contact details for Roy Hudson, email or PM.

Also, nothing to do with that. You may recall the comic strip character "Sally Forth" who appeared in military rags roughly between the two Tet offensives. I'm interested in any Sally Forth JPGs.

I was a low ranking sailor in 1967; how come I didn't get to go to the palace? Closest I got was Kaoshung between the evacuation of Saigon and the evacuation of Pnim Pen. LOL

[JRingo]

I am writing an article on Chiang Mai and a 100 mule caravan that was supposed to have arrived here in 1967 and was guarded by KMT soldiers. Does anyone know any Farang who lived here that long ago. I was here in 1968 briefly and only heard rumors about it.

My ex-wife from Fang remembers caravans when she was a child. Her memory was that it was Khun Sa and his men.

If they were in need of food when they came through her village they took half of

the livestock. ie..If you had 6 chickens they would take 3.

She also had tales of a neighboring village that decided to sell their opium crop to someone else and

Khun Sa killed all the men there as an example to others.

There are probably lots of Thais around who remember such things, why do you need a falang?

Get an interpreter and head north. Probably any local above 60 years old around Doi Angkhang knows plenty.

[sabaijai]

I am writing an article on Chiang Mai and a 100 mule caravan that was supposed to have arrived here in 1967 and was guarded by KMT soldiers. Does anyone know any Farang who lived here that long ago. I was here in 1968 briefly and only heard rumors about it.

My ex-wife from Fang remembers caravans when she was a child. Her memory was that it was Khun Sa and his men.

If they were in need of food when they came through her village they took half of

the livestock. ie..If you had 6 chickens they would take 3.

She also had tales of a neighboring village that decided to sell their opium crop to someone else and

Khun Sa killed all the men there as an example to others.

There are probably lots of Thais around who remember such things, why do you need a falang?

Get an interpreter and head north. Probably any local above 60 years old around Doi Angkhang knows plenty.

Good point.