Alleged gunman dies in custody

[chooka]

Why would the Junta want to kill this man (what you are obviously insinuating) when his testimony could possibly lead to the identification of other suspects?

Wrong question. One. He didn't die in junta hands. But of course, the police have reported that he died of that well-known killer disease asthma, and the police have absolutely no reason to lie.

Two. There are lots of people who are happy to see this man right where he is now - reds, yellows and men in brown included. Why you bring in the red herring of the army, only you could know. But the list of suspects, not including the junta, is quite long. And it certainly includes lack of health care (not asthma) which kills a lot of people in prison/jail.

.

Actually he did die in Junta hands. The country is currently under Martial Law and they arrested him, locked him up. The Military is in control of everything in Thailand at the moment, the police follow orders from the Junta as do every other government agency including the prison system.

Actually he didn't die in junta hands nor has martial law anything to do with this incident. He was arrested by the police (who, admittedly, did need prodding in this case as they attempted to frame a friend of the original victim) and held in the Bangkok Remand centre - the same place that Sondhi was held.

Criminal law has not been changed in any way. The health aspect does leave room for concern but we'll have to leave that until the autopsy.

When he was arrested all praise was placed on the Junta for their work and leading the police, when he dies in custody it is wash the junta's hands. The Junta are in charge of the Police and give orders to the police. Police command has been taken over by the Junta.

Can't have your cake and eat it also. If the Junta lead the push to arrest him and take all the credit for the arrest and locking him up then they are responsible 100% for his death. Duty of care. They Junta are in full control of all facilities and all government agencies.

[tomyummer]

That prison ebola can get you fast.

[rubl]

If he was suffering chronic health problems then why was he in the general population and not in a medical wing? The authorities have a total 100% duty of care to everyone they are intrusted with. They neglected that duty of care and are partially responsible for the guys death. The Junta is in charge of everything so the buck stops with them.

Do prisons in Thailand have a medical wing?

Umm fair question, I just assumed that they would because when you lock someone up they become your responsibility 100% I know prisons in Aust have a hospital wing but I may have assumed/expected a little to much for Thailand. Was just giving them the benefit of doubt and thought they may be civilised to a degree.

I must admit not to have an answer either. I try to avoid prisons in general and Thai ones in particular.

A Dutch national "van L." was arrested in Pattaya a few weeks ago. As alleged 'coffeeshop owner' in the Netherlands Dutch MoJ had asked the Thai authorities to detain him for questioning about "membership of a criminal organisation', 'money laundering', etc. Just today on a Dutch news site I saw a short article with his Dutch lawyer mentioning that the detention is "hell on Earth" with his client only having a 60cm rubber matrass, a fellow inmate having TB and for personel hygiene his client gets a cup of water twice a day to wash himself. Medicins for his high bloodpressure he hasn't received yet (rough translation by yours truly).

Try to stay on the straight and narrow,

uncle rubl

PS my understanding is that he receives the normal treatment any other Thai National would.

Edited August 30, 2014 by rubl

[winstonc]

If he was suffering chronic health problems then why was he in the general population and not in a medical wing? The authorities have a total 100% duty of care to everyone they are intrusted with. They neglected that duty of care and are partially responsible for the guys death. The Junta is in charge of everything so the buck stops with them.

your a lad chooks..its thailand ...medical wing....anadin..now bugger off.im having lunch...1 less to worry about...he was a wrongun anyway..no loss to humanity..

[tbthailand]

""Since he was detained, he never had any conflict with his fellow inmates," he said, adding that records also showed Sukrit had diabetes and asthma as chronic health problems."

Another report states that the director of the Bangkok Remand Prison said that the prisoner had no history of asthma.

[than]

It is to be hoped that there will be an international observer at the autopsy.

What do you insinuate ? That military kill this man ?

This death not profit to military but only one group people, red terrorist group.

The Gunman now dead cannot give the name of red leaders who order to assassinate Sutin Taratin.

Only reds group can profit of this death......

[chooka]

@khunken at post 36

Take a chill pill, relax.

The Junta arrested the guy and did an excellent job.

They as the rulers of every single government agency in Thailand are responsible for the welfare of the people they arrest.

If the Junta arrest someone tell me true they are not responsible for that persons welfare. The Junta are the police and correctional services, they appointed their people in charge of these departments.

An example;

A local cop arrests a guy and locks him up, then he goes off duty. His responsibility has not left him even after he goes home and passes the baton to the next watch house keeper who has been given the responsibility. They guy detained hangs himself in the cell or dies from a medical condition. Everyone from the arresting officer right up to the Chief Commissioner of Police is held responsible and then the Minister of Police and the premier of the State.

The arresting officer must make inquiries into their physical and mental health before lodging them in a cell. Medications and ongoing treatment etc.

In Thailand there are at least 10 - 20 arresting officers as depicted in evidence in the photo opportunities. At least one can make an assessment or have an assessment done and ensure that the prisoners welfare is taken care of. (The prisoner is not guilty of anything yet, only a suspect) This assessment may have done but was pushed aside and nothing done to look after his welfare. Got the photo op and pic on the family wall at home. Care factor went out the door after he was locked in a cage.

I know my organization if there is a death in custody it is automatically a homicide investigation, no if no butts. The Homicide Squad are then heavily monitored by Ethical Standards in regard to the investigation and they are heavily monitored by the Office of Police Integrity.

If the Junta did not put in place serious protocols to protect this and other political prisoners then where I come from the General would be facing serious charges. Yes I know it is Military Law and law does not apply to the General and his people.

[tbthailand]

It is to be hoped that there will be an international observer at the autopsy.

What do you insinuate ? That military kill this man ?

This death not profit to military but only one group people, red terrorist group.

The Gunman now dead cannot give the name of red leaders who order to assassinate Sutin Taratin.

Only reds group can profit of this death......

that theory seems to be very popular on this forum.

but the probability of that being true is extremely small - just take the simple fact that if the people who 'ordered' the shooting could have more easily killed the man right after the shooting - or at any time during the last 6 months.

[chooka]

If he was suffering chronic health problems then why was he in the general population and not in a medical wing? The authorities have a total 100% duty of care to everyone they are intrusted with. They neglected that duty of care and are partially responsible for the guys death. The Junta is in charge of everything so the buck stops with them.

your a lad chooks..its thailand ...medical wing....anadin..now bugger off.im having lunch...1 less to worry about...he was a wrongun anyway..no loss to humanity..

[rubl]

If the Junta did not put in place serious protocols to protect this and other political prisoners then where I come from the General would be facing serious charges. Yes I know it is Military Law and law does not apply to the General and his people.

This and other "political" prisoners?

Aren't you stretching things a wee bit here?

[chooka]

If the Junta did not put in place serious protocols to protect this and other political prisoners then where I come from the General would be facing serious charges. Yes I know it is Military Law and law does not apply to the General and his people.

This and other "political" prisoners?

Aren't you stretching things a wee bit here?

Actually my post consist of approximately another 700 words. Show the whole post

[rubl]

@khunken at post 36

Take a chill pill, relax.

The Junta arrested the guy and did an excellent job.

They as the rulers of every single government agency in Thailand are responsible for the welfare of the people they arrest.

If the Junta arrest someone tell me true they are not responsible for that persons welfare. The Junta are the police and correctional services, they appointed their people in charge of these departments.

An example;

A local cop arrests a guy and locks him up, then he goes off duty. His responsibility has not left him even after he goes home and passes the baton to the next watch house keeper who has been given the responsibility. They guy detained hangs himself in the cell or dies from a medical condition. Everyone from the arresting officer right up to the Chief Commissioner of Police is held responsible and then the Minister of Police and the premier of the State.

The arresting officer must make inquiries into their physical and mental health before lodging them in a cell. Medications and ongoing treatment etc.

In Thailand there are at least 10 - 20 arresting officers as depicted in evidence in the photo opportunities. At least one can make an assessment or have an assessment done and ensure that the prisoners welfare is taken care of. (The prisoner is not guilty of anything yet, only a suspect) This assessment may have done but was pushed aside and nothing done to look after his welfare. Got the photo op and pic on the family wall at home. Care factor went out the door after he was locked in a cage.

I know my organization if there is a death in custody it is automatically a homicide investigation, no if no butts. The Homicide Squad are then heavily monitored by Ethical Standards in regard to the investigation and they are heavily monitored by the Office of Police Integrity.

If the Junta did not put in place serious protocols to protect this and other political prisoners then where I come from the General would be facing serious charges. Yes I know it is Military Law and law does not apply to the General and his people.

As requested:

'political' prisoners', aren't you stretching things a wee bit?

The paragraph on 'homicide' I accept. The RTP seems a bit behind in what by now is normal in most Western countries.

BTW now that I'm on it, the NCPO simply let the existing organisations run things. Maybe replacing the head of some. If the existing Justice or Police department didn't have proper procedures and guidelines how to handle prisoners, than I don't think you should expect the NCPO to immediately impose whatever in rules and regulations. If they did everyone here might call them dictatorial, imagine. Also the NCPO has been a bit busy the last three months. Not easy to correct all wrongs in such a span of time.

Edited August 30, 2014 by rubl

[bangrak]

I (honestly) don't know the name of the, several, totalitarian regimes and 'special services' which used 'techniques' creating internal bleedings to 'eliminate' dissidents or 'competitors'. But I remember some of those 'techniques', an, immediate 'mechanical' one using shockwaves created in a closed volume of water, f.i., not letting any mark on the skin, or f.i. longer 'chemical' ones, using very basic non-poisonous products present in most homes, or even a totally 'natural' one, using a specific combination of nutrients, with in both cases bleedings located in the digestive system, the basic aim of the 'techniques' being to make the origin of the death to be natural causes. When they were available, and not advised to 'look elsewhere', qualified forensic experts knew where to look for evidence of murder though, because each 'technique', still, leaves its own tiny 'signature' in the specificity of the leathal damage it caused. I don't say this is the case here, but I would like to be 100% sure it is NOT the case, as this death is so very 'convenient' for some people, and the reports we've got are though extremely 'vague' (on purpose), containing some contradictional elements making serious questions arise about a possible cover-up...

[rubl]

I (honestly) don't know the name of the, several, totalitarian regimes and 'special services' which used 'techniques' creating internal bleedings to 'eliminate' dissidents or 'competitors'. But I remember some of those 'techniques', an, immediate 'mechanical' one using shockwaves created in a closed volume of water, f.i., not letting any mark on the skin, or f.i. longer 'chemical' ones, using very basic non-poisonous products present in most homes, or even a totally 'natural' one, using a specific combination of nutrients, with in both cases bleedings located in the digestive system, the basic aim of the 'techniques' being to make the origin of the death to be natural causes. When they were available, and not advised to 'look elsewhere', qualified forensic experts knew where to look for evidence of murder though, because each 'technique', still, leaves its own tiny 'signature' in the specificity of the leathal damage it caused. I don't say this is the case here, but I would like to be 100% sure it is NOT the case, as this death is so very 'convenient' for some people, and the reports we've got are though extremely 'vague' (on purpose), containing some contradictional elements making serious questions arise about a possible cover-up...

Of course anything might be possible. Still with the somewhat 'crude' attitude of the Thai Correction System it doesn't take much to die.

The problem lays in conspiracy theories, what people want to believe anyway and money for following a procedure as common in most Western countries.

Would a Death Certificate signed by Dr. Pornthip satisfy doubters? I would guess NO.

Should Thailand invite some foreign expert and pay for his/her consultancy because some easily like to accuse?

Would Thais agree within a single year on who to elect in the ad-hoc commission which will come with recommendations on which foreign expert to invite?

IMHO.

Edited August 30, 2014 by rubl

[Wombat6]

It is to be hoped that there will be an international observer at the autopsy.

A strange Post ?? Who would appoint such a person....who would that person report to ?? and really ....why ??

[Benmart]

I wasn't there and any comments about a coverup, collusion, plot, etc. would be conjecture.

Such stories do seem activate the experts, fortune-tellers, mind readers and other assorted mystics.

RIP.

[Benmart]

I (honestly) don't know the name of the, several, totalitarian regimes and 'special services' which used 'techniques' creating internal bleedings to 'eliminate' dissidents or 'competitors'. But I remember some of those 'techniques', an, immediate 'mechanical' one using shockwaves created in a closed volume of water, f.i., not letting any mark on the skin, or f.i. longer 'chemical' ones, using very basic non-poisonous products present in most homes, or even a totally 'natural' one, using a specific combination of nutrients, with in both cases bleedings located in the digestive system, the basic aim of the 'techniques' being to make the origin of the death to be natural causes. When they were available, and not advised to 'look elsewhere', qualified forensic experts knew where to look for evidence of murder though, because each 'technique', still, leaves its own tiny 'signature' in the specificity of the leathal damage it caused. I don't say this is the case here, but I would like to be 100% sure it is NOT the case, as this death is so very 'convenient' for some people, and the reports we've got are though extremely 'vague' (on purpose), containing some contradictional elements making serious questions arise about a possible cover-up...

I live in a world where "anything" is possible.

While I enjoy reading lengthy posts, breaking them into paragraphs makes the reading much easier.

Thanks.

[ukrules]

I wonder if this guy was actually guilty and did the shooting or maybe he's just someone on his 'last legs' who was 'persuaded' to take the rap on behalf of the guilty in exchange for some benefit.

It's very convenient for all sides involved as the case can now be closed.

[gk10002000]

"He had difficulty breathing". Yeah, seven people sitting on your chest can cause problems like that.

[Doc46]

If he was suffering chronic health problems then why was he in the general population and not in a medical wing? The authorities have a total 100% duty of care to everyone they are intrusted with. They neglected that duty of care and are partially responsible for the guys death. The Junta is in charge of everything so the buck stops with them.

100 % duty of care???? I think you mean don't care.Have you ever seen the inside of an detention centre or an prison? Wake up, they don't give a Faq about your health or anything else.

[chooka]

If he was suffering chronic health problems then why was he in the general population and not in a medical wing? The authorities have a total 100% duty of care to everyone they are intrusted with. They neglected that duty of care and are partially responsible for the guys death. The Junta is in charge of everything so the buck stops with them.

100 % duty of care???? I think you mean don't care.Have you ever seen the inside of an detention centre or an prison? Wake up, they don't give a Faq about your health or anything else.

Yep seen the inside of both many times and actually cared for prisoners.

[dcsw53]

How can somebody with 6 policemen sitting on his chest have breathing difficulties ?

[tbthailand]

autopsy did not point to any problem with asthma. Internal bleeding was present in his digestive track.

[rubl]

autopsy did not point to any problem with asthma. Internal bleeding was present in his digestive track.

Maybe the wrong diet while in prison?

Waiting for a autopsy report from dr. Pornthip. I'm sure all conspiracy theories can be laid to rest then.