Without proper energy plan, power bill could double in seven years

[SlackJawChef]

Eazy way to fix this without changing the power stations ... invest in biogas production from all the chicken cow and pig farms in thailand ... this would go along way to supplementing the LNG and create local jobs and economic growth ... instead of importing coal and gas... My friend has a small methane digester set up at his dairy farm and that he has used for the past 4 years to produce all his own cooking fuel ... he all so has a compressor and stores it in propane tanks to use later .... if he over produces .... in december he is upgrading to a huge digester and plans on running a generator from it ... Im trying to get the small one ... but might have to buy a new kit ... as he might want to keep the small one for his home cooking and just not feed it as much... small kit is about 5,000thb and you just feed it a bucket of dung every day,

just think with all the B.S on this forum Thai visa, could power half the city...

[Baerboxer]

There's no mention of sustainable energy sources. In some European countries solar and wind energy are big business now. Windmillparks in the sea and more and more homes pushing electricity from solar panels on the roofs of homes into the net and even make some money with it while having a zero electricity bill. Thailand sure has much sun to exploit.

The problem is all those sustainable projects rely on some of subsidy to make them viable. Without that they are not financially viable.

I worked on the first solar power project for a data center in California. We had to rush things to meet a date when the generous state subsidy rules changed. Without that subsidy we would not have gone ahead. It was considered a big success, but to put into perspective generated 20% of the power used. Masdar City in the UAE is another example, Even with all the money being pumped in by the wealthy Abu Dhabi government it still isn't achieving anything like its original objectives.

Much more needs to be done to develop sustainable energy but at present it is a small contributor.

[EricBerg]

There's no mention of sustainable energy sources. In some European countries solar and wind energy are big business now. Windmillparks in the sea and more and more homes pushing electricity from solar panels on the roofs of homes into the net and even make some money with it while having a zero electricity bill. Thailand sure has much sun to exploit.

While solar in Europe brings the energy exactly at that time when no one needs it, in Thailand it would be much better.

When all airconditions run full speed during the day, the solar cells brings the most electric.

"While solar in Europe brings the energy exactly at that time when no one needs it,"...

Our Dutch home has zero electricity costs. We even push electricity into the net and get some money for it. When we are not in Thailand in a relatively warm period in Holland (now for instance) we still use quite a lot of electricity with two pc's and a laptop, tv's two fridges a freezer and lights and other devices. All that energy comes from the sun. In wintertime we even can afford two small electrical heaters, and still have a zero electricity bill. Thus we need less of the bloody russian gas.

Solar energy is booming in Holland in some ten years we will not get paid anymore for pushing electricity into the net simply because there then in summertime are too many homes doing that and unfortunately that energy cannot be stored (yet). Still most of those many homes will not use non-solar electricity.

[EricBerg]

There's no mention of sustainable energy sources. In some European countries solar and wind energy are big business now. Windmillparks in the sea and more and more homes pushing electricity from solar panels on the roofs of homes into the net and even make some money with it while having a zero electricity bill. Thailand sure has much sun to exploit.

The problem is all those sustainable projects rely on some of subsidy to make them viable. Without that they are not financially viable.

I worked on the first solar power project for a data center in California. We had to rush things to meet a date when the generous state subsidy rules changed. Without that subsidy we would not have gone ahead. It was considered a big success, but to put into perspective generated 20% of the power used. Masdar City in the UAE is another example, Even with all the money being pumped in by the wealthy Abu Dhabi government it still isn't achieving anything like its original objectives.

Much more needs to be done to develop sustainable energy but at present it is a small contributor.

Things are different now. The chinese solar panels dropped in price since subsidies in Holland stopped. Do look at my reply to h90. Solar power works in Holland. It cannot replace very much of the fossile resources but it is working.

[Cheops]

My electric bill went up 10% from same period last year

and the year before,nothing extra added,so at this rate

a doubling in prices maybe conservative.

regards Worgeordie

I think you bought more electrical stuff every year Edited August 30, 2014 by Cheops

[Soutpeel]

There's no mention of sustainable energy sources. In some European countries solar and wind energy are big business now. Windmillparks in the sea and more and more homes pushing electricity from solar panels on the roofs of homes into the net and even make some money with it while having a zero electricity bill. Thailand sure has much sun to exploit.

"Areepong said the second-most-important item on the agenda concerned rebalancing the country's fuel-supply options to reduce its dependence on natural gas from 65 per cent at present to about 20-30 per cent, substituting it with clean coal and renewable energy."

Is that not the same thing ?

Does Thailand have coal ? I'd think it should. I also thin Thailand should take back the lower portion of Myanmar before they make friends with China. There is more than enough gas/oil out there in the Andaman sea that rightfully belongs to Thailand, not Burma. Those UK brigands stole it but it is still Siam.

or of course, dependent on how back you want to go, one could say that just everything this is now Thailand, once belonged to the Burmese anyway...

[buddy]

If they want to cut down on consumption, adjust aircon settings in govt offices, banks etc. Far too cold.

I agree, however because Human beings have different metabolisms so peoples comfort level is different that is why their is never 1 temperature setpoint on your air conditioning controller.

[BSJ]

No such thing as clean coal. Maybe 25 (50) years from now!

What every country with sunlight should be looking at is electricity generated from MSES.

"The Gemasolar plant in Spain is the world's first baseload (24-hour) solar plant using molten salt energy storage. Image courtesy of Torresol Energy."

[The Deerhunter]

I read in the UK Press a week or so ago that a spray on solar system is being developed and should be available commercially quite soon and at much lower costs than the current panels (when you can get them) are. I think we all need to watch out for this interesting innovation coming on to the market and then perhaps for relatively low costs, we could all become self sufficient for electricity - maybe time to buy that electric car too!!

There is no end of new solar & wind technology coming on stream. Subscribe to free daily Gizmag newsletters & read about it. It is all indexed to follow. The world renewable energy situation will be hugely different in 10 years with new forms of batteries, new PV (solar) panels & coatings & new wind turbines including wind turbines with zero maintenance & friction free magnetic bearings. This renewable energy thing went through a loony fad stage but now there are serious people investing serious money into good technologies.

[halloween]

Hydro-electricity is also renewable energy, and much more desirable in nearly all considerations (cost, availability, energy return ratio, responsiveness to load demand, longevity, maintenance costs) but is usually ignored or derided by those pushing the renewable supply wagon, mostly due to technical ignorance IMO.

[belg]

if i were thailand, why not invade quatar ... big thai army sitting on their asses

[halloween]

No such thing as clean coal. Maybe 25 (50) years from now!

What every country with sunlight should be looking at is electricity generated from MSES.

"The Gemasolar plant in Spain is the world's first baseload (24-hour) solar plant using molten salt energy storage. Image courtesy of Torresol Energy."

CropperCapture41.jpg

Well there are base load stations and base load stations. Bayswater coal fired in Australia has 4 x 660 MW units, would produce more than 200 times the energy (allowing for maintenance down-time), and the price of supply would be FAR lower.

And for a bit of perspective, Oz has enough coal to supply its energy needs for millennia, but instead builds solar plants at ridiculous cost, while exporting coal to anybody willing to buy it - the biggest coal loader in the southern hemisphere is in Newcastle NSW. Meanwhile the cost of energy to consumers spirals far worse than is predicted here, partially because of the subsidies paid to domestic solar producers.

[masuk]

There's no mention of sustainable energy sources. In some European countries solar and wind energy are big business now. Windmillparks in the sea and more and more homes pushing electricity from solar panels on the roofs of homes into the net and even make some money with it while having a zero electricity bill. Thailand sure has much sun to exploit.

"Areepong said the second-most-important item on the agenda concerned rebalancing the country's fuel-supply options to reduce its dependence on natural gas from 65 per cent at present to about 20-30 per cent, substituting it with clean coal and renewable energy."

Is that not the same thing ?

"Clean" coal is not a substitute for renewable energy.

I haven't seen too many solar hot water heaters on houses here, but a great many air conditioners where there is obviously no insulation.

Solar electricity installations are far cheaper now than just a few years back, and again, not too many about in Thailand.

Once power charges start to bite, people will start looking at cheaper ways of obtaining power.

[khunken]

There's no mention of sustainable energy sources. In some European countries solar and wind energy are big business now. Windmillparks in the sea and more and more homes pushing electricity from solar panels on the roofs of homes into the net and even make some money with it while having a zero electricity bill. Thailand sure has much sun to exploit.

"Areepong said the second-most-important item on the agenda concerned rebalancing the country's fuel-supply options to reduce its dependence on natural gas from 65 per cent at present to about 20-30 per cent, substituting it with clean coal and renewable energy."

Is that not the same thing ?

"Clean" coal is not a substitute for renewable energy.

I haven't seen too many solar hot water heaters on houses here, but a great many air conditioners where there is obviously no insulation.

Solar electricity installations are far cheaper now than just a few years back, and again, not too many about in Thailand.

Once power charges start to bite, people will start looking at cheaper ways of obtaining power.

Agree.

The laws surrounding solar energy for individuals is a minefield here. It's virtually impossible for them to connect up to the grid. I suspect EGAT is the main culprit as it doesn't like to give up any of its power (pun intended).

As usual with energy conferences here the 'clean coal' oxymoron is included. There is a major conflict in Krabi with EGAT wanting to build an 800mw coal-fired generating station and the locals, predictably, against it. They already have had to put up with a much smaller plant for years. All coal has to be imported & that's another environmental hazard.

There is also the deliberately enhanced future consumption estimates which is another way of attempting to get dirty energy imposed on unwilling locals. A combination of solar, biomass and tackling excessive consumption would be a better policy for sustainable development of energy here.

[masuk]

There's no mention of sustainable energy sources. In some European countries solar and wind energy are big business now. Windmillparks in the sea and more and more homes pushing electricity from solar panels on the roofs of homes into the net and even make some money with it while having a zero electricity bill. Thailand sure has much sun to exploit.

"Areepong said the second-most-important item on the agenda concerned rebalancing the country's fuel-supply options to reduce its dependence on natural gas from 65 per cent at present to about 20-30 per cent, substituting it with clean coal and renewable energy."

Is that not the same thing ?

"Clean" coal is not a substitute for renewable energy.

I haven't seen too many solar hot water heaters on houses here, but a great many air conditioners where there is obviously no insulation.

Solar electricity installations are far cheaper now than just a few years back, and again, not too many about in Thailand.

Once power charges start to bite, people will start looking at cheaper ways of obtaining power.

Agree.

The laws surrounding solar energy for individuals is a minefield here. It's virtually impossible for them to connect up to the grid. I suspect EGAT is the main culprit as it doesn't like to give up any of its power (pun intended).

As usual with energy conferences here the 'clean coal' oxymoron is included. There is a major conflict in Krabi with EGAT wanting to build an 800mw coal-fired generating station and the locals, predictably, against it. They already have had to put up with a much smaller plant for years. All coal has to be imported & that's another environmental hazard.

There is also the deliberately enhanced future consumption estimates which is another way of attempting to get dirty energy imposed on unwilling locals. A combination of solar, biomass and tackling excessive consumption would be a better policy for sustainable development of energy here.

I should have mentioned that I was in China recently, and hostels and hotels all had the latest technology on their roofs, supplying hot water.

Now if only they cleaned the collecting panels once in a while and removed the pollution, they'd have been even more efficient.

[SunsetT]

"Electricity tariffs SET to double" is false and has a totally different meaning to the truth which is that:

"power bill(s) COULD double in seven years"

This website is becoming truly Thai in the way that it is written !

[Thakkar]

Conservation provides immediate, cheapest and easiest resolution to the problem posed. Appealing to peoples' civic mindedness will only go so far. Experience, studies and plain old horse sense shows that nothing works better at delivering efficiencies than pricing.

Increasing prices will affect those least fortunate immediately and severely. For households, this can be ameliorated by no increase for, say, the first 200 units of consumption and progressive increases for each additional 50 units. For businesses, rebate that progressively decreases over, say, 10/15 years. This ensures they don't pass on costs to consumers and have time to adjust their energy use over a predictable period by improving efficiencies, upgrading machinery, switching to renewables, etc

Any policy that does not include price increases will only ensure that more supply, however achieved, will immediately be sucked up by more demand.

T

Edit: inserted "sense" after "horse"

Edited August 30, 2014 by Thakkar

[Robespiere]

It's looking more and more likely that the Energy / PTT issues are what's going to blow apart the right wing coalition running the country.

A house divided....

[RPCVguy]

Technology shifts for supplying energy are shifting rapidly. Solar is constantly dropping in price and is ideally suited to mirroring the daily peak demand cycle - being in peak production just as air conditioners cause a peak in demand. Solar is also the easiest renewable energy that can be installed near where it is needed... as solar PV. What large mirror arrays are suited for are solar-thermal electricity.

What I had not realized until looking into it was the seasonal ability to design into many of the diversion canals for supplying water to rice fields a water turbine for hydro-electricity. Off shore and a few hilly regions are also suited for wind turbines, though multiple designs now exist to use the higher elevations of tall buildings to supply wind energy to buildings. Even the lands near the Thai Hot Springs are suitable for Geothermal Energy

A global forecast of how new technology can replace diminishing fossil fuel access with renewable sources is attached. It is marked to show which options are possible for Thailand in the likely future.


There is an Alternative Energy Plan site I found last year... and had stored a report from. Not sure what will come of the plan besides someone having drawn it up, but here it is - available to discuss.

[Otis]

The whole idea of clean and free energy is silly. There are no free lunches.

Anytime energy is changed and moved from its place in nature, there is a cost. Solar and wind are sources of energy that can be tapped but, there will be a cost. We just don't seem to think the cause and effect through.

For instance, has anyone considered what happens if the earth's wind energy is redirected into electricity? Say on a massive scale, such as 50% of a global economy. It will reduce planet wind production by an opposite factor. The law of unintended consequences will most certainly slap the planet with a severe penalty.

The earth will stop spinning and all the people will fall off. Not bad for earth, but pretty rough on humanity. And soon, in geologic time, the cycle will start over minus the idiots and the innocents.

In conclusion; Don't mess with Mother Nature without consulting her. oc

[RBOP]

My electric bill has doubled in the last 4 years.

[Krataiboy]

Our children's bedroom is like an igloo. Every time I walk across the ice-cold tiled floor to say goodnight (and turn up the aircon from its Arctic setting), I sprout a new crop of goosebumps - not just from the cold but also from the impact on my wallet.

It's not just the electricity that strains the budget. In their refrigerated sleeping quarters, our-would be Eskimos insist on pajamas, duvets, blankets and a mass of pillows and bolsters to prevent them succumbing to frostbite as they slumber.

And I just know, no matter how many times I turn up the thermostat, that as soon as I close the bedroom door, little fingers will be busy twirling it back to the obligatory therm-gulping 18 degree setting.

Kids!

[attrayant]

The fourth option sounds like prayers?

It is. Thailand: the land of magical thinking.

[attrayant]

Clean coal. I hear the term all the time. Total RUBBISH!!No such thing.

The whole idea of clean and free energy is silly.

The balance of your post reads like satire, so perhaps I'm being wooshed. But when people refer to clean coal, they're talking about technologies such as gasification and recovery that can reduce the amount of oxides and other pollutants in the exhaust of coal-fired power plants.

And nobody except you has mentioned free energy.

As others have said, it's truly amazing what has been going on with advances in pv and battery technology lately. And the goal is not to completely eliminate our need for fossil fuels, but to reduce the demand to whatever extent is possible.

Edited August 31, 2014 by attrayant

[daveAustin]

There's no mention of sustainable energy sources. In some European countries solar and wind energy are big business now. Windmillparks in the sea and more and more homes pushing electricity from solar panels on the roofs of homes into the net and even make some money with it while having a zero electricity bill. Thailand sure has much sun to exploit.

"Areepong said the second-most-important item on the agenda concerned rebalancing the country's fuel-supply options to reduce its dependence on natural gas from 65 per cent at present to about 20-30 per cent, substituting it with clean coal and renewable energy."

Is that not the same thing ?

Does Thailand have coal ? I'd think it should. I also thin Thailand should take back the lower portion of Myanmar before they make friends with China. There is more than enough gas/oil out there in the Andaman sea that rightfully belongs to Thailand, not Burma. Those UK brigands stole it but it is still Siam.

what ever are you talking about?

[daveAustin]

If they want to cut down on consumption, adjust aircon settings in govt offices, banks etc. Far too cold.

If they changed the setting from 0 to 25 in cinemas it'd make a massive difference.