Thai Foreign Minister Tanasak gets nod from diplomats

[rubl]

....

And you are entirely wrong about "normally". Normally, Thailand's foreign minister is a career diplomat from the very excellent ministry of foreign affairs. The most recent government did not do that, which was a very un-normal arrangement. The Yingluck government was widely and often criticised for its choice of an outsider as foreign minister. Thailand's foreign service is quite respected worldwide.

....

The Abhisit cabinet had k. Kasit as MoFA, a career diplomat. The Somchai cabinet had k. Sompong, a lawyer, the Samak cabinet k. Noppadon, a lawyer/politician. Gen. Surayuth had k. Nitya, a career diplomat. Thaksin I and II had k. Surakiart, a lawyer/politician.

So, "normally" means what ?

[wandasloan]

So, "normally" means what ?

Since I already stated the time period clearly, "normally" pretty obviously doesn't mean 10 years. Wan Waithayakon, Luang Wichitwathakan, Direk Chayanama, Nit Pibulsonggram, Surin Pitsuwan... these are the giants of Thai diplomacy and "normally" the class of people Thailand sent out to the world. The deterioration is obvious to a blind woman, but this one plumbs new depths never before seen.

.

[rubl]

So, "normally" means what ?

Since I already stated the time period clearly, "normally" pretty obviously doesn't mean 10 years. Wan Waithayakon, Luang Wichitwathakan, Direk Chayanama, Nit Pibulsonggram, Surin Pitsuwan... these are the giants of Thai diplomacy and "normally" the class of people Thailand sent out to the world. The deterioration is obvious to a blind woman, but this one plumbs new depths never before seen.

Tjeez Ms. Wanda, I hadn't thought you'd go back that far.

BTW might it be that the new MoFA will send his Deputy out. Even as part of a Military selected Cabinet the Dept. MoFA is a career diplomat far enough removed from the 'NCPO cabinet'. Seems a real diplomatic choice.

[wandasloan]

Tjeez Ms. Wanda, I hadn't thought you'd go back that far.

Then you should read the posts before you "reply" (if I may use that term so loosely) since I made it clear a long way up ^^^ there.

I'm well aware that Thaksin's later flawed clones debased the whole foreign ministry, but at least Thaksin himself, when he was in charge, had a reason - he was making Thai embassies into businesses. I thought that was crazy, but at least it was an idea and a policy, and the government in general was involved and contributing and on board. Then it started to go wobbly. Abhisit had the worst "professional" foreign minister ever but he was a professional diplomat and understood how things worked, although he was personally horribly flawed. Thaksin's selection for Yingluck was almost inexplicable but he was also a minder.

The General Sarit clone of today couldn't give a reason for appointing the person he did, and didn't try. It's never, ever been this bad. Ever. It's a total disaster for a coup council, under attack around the world and in all international forums as a jack-booted thug regime, to appoint such a man. No possible good can come of it, but the harm that might be done....

The United Nations condemned Thailand again today for jack-bootery. What's the foreign minister done about it, or what does he intend to do? Do tell.

.

[rubl]

Tjeez Ms. Wanda, I hadn't thought you'd go back that far.

Then you should read the posts before you "reply" (if I may use that term so loosely) since I made it clear a long way up ^^^ there.

I'm well aware that Thaksin's later flawed clones debased the whole foreign ministry, but at least Thaksin himself, when he was in charge, had a reason - he was making Thai embassies into businesses. I thought that was crazy, but at least it was an idea and a policy, and the government in general was involved and contributing and on board. Then it started to go wobbly. Abhisit had the worst "professional" foreign minister ever but he was a professional diplomat and understood how things worked, although he was personally horribly flawed. Thaksin's selection for Yingluck was almost inexplicable but he was also a minder.

The General Sarit clone of today couldn't give a reason for appointing the person he did, and didn't try. It's never, ever been this bad. Ever. It's a total disaster for a coup council, under attack around the world and in all international forums as a jack-booted thug regime, to appoint such a man. No possible good can come of it, but the harm that might be done....

The United Nations condemned Thailand again today for jack-bootery. What's the foreign minister done about it, or what does he intend to do? Do tell.

K. Kasit 'worst' "professional" minister? K. Surapong a "minder"? Your opinion starts to show a clear bias.

The 'giants of Thai diplomacy" you named were interesting figures, even a "coupist" amongst them and the diplomacy of letting Japanese forces pass through Thailand in 1942 was masterly indeed. No wonder he was the right Ambassador to the Japanese Court from 1943 onwards.

BTW "jack-booted thug regime" ? and that in "all international forums"? Even the UN? A pointer to the UN condemnation today, please. Yahoo only seems to give the initial condemnation of the 23rd of May.

Anyway skipping the clearly undiplomatic language of Ms. Wanda, let's remark once more that the world of Diplomacy will have less problems in dealing with Thailand through the career diplomat who happens to be Dept. MoFA as well. It allows diplomatic channels to remain open without 'obviously' dealing with a "jack-booted thug regime"

[wandasloan]

BTW "jack-booted thug regime" ? and that in "all international forums"? Even the UN? A pointer to the UN condemnation today, please. Yahoo only seems to give the initial condemnation of the 23rd of May.

You're not serious. I don't like labelling people but that paragraph was written by a troll. And it's strange, debasing yourself with a claim in 2014 that you do not know how to use Google. You already know this, and I KNOW you already know this, but click here for a real-life demonstration on how YOU use Google in normal circumstances, when you are not trolling:

http://tinyurl.com/lsdfswy

The followinig were written/published in the hours before your post. You are trying to deflect this entire thread by claiming you couldn't find one of them. That is an impossibility for anyone with an internet connection and the ability to find a discussion forum. Your post is only intended to take this thread off topic, for purposes you know:

Thai law on defaming monarchy has ‘chilling effect’ on free expression – UN rights office

UN News Centre, www.un.org

UN expresses human rights concerns over Thailand

Bangkok Post

UN voices 'serious concern' on human rights in Thailand

Channel News Asia

UN Body 'Seriously Concerned' About Human Rights in Thailand

Phuketwan

Concern over NCPO 'request' to call off rights talks

The Nation

Thailand urged to stop locking up children of migrants

The Nation

UN expresses concern over restricted freedom of activists in Thailand

Thailand National News Bureau

Zeid al-Hussein new UN High Commissioner for Human Rights

Deutsche Welle

(Yes, this one too. Read the story)

K. Kasit 'worst' "professional" minister? K. Surapong a "minder"? Your opinion starts to show a clear bias.

The 'giants of Thai diplomacy" you named were interesting figures, even a "coupist" amongst them and the diplomacy of letting Japanese forces pass through Thailand in 1942 was masterly indeed. No wonder he was the right Ambassador to the Japanese Court from 1943 onwards.

BTW "jack-booted thug regime" ? and that in "all international forums"? Even the UN? A pointer to the UN condemnation today, please. Yahoo only seems to give the initial condemnation of the 23rd of May.

Anyway skipping the clearly undiplomatic language of Ms. Wanda, let's remark once more that the world of Diplomacy will have less problems in dealing with Thailand through the career diplomat who happens to be Dept. MoFA as well. It allows diplomatic channels to remain open without 'obviously' dealing with a "jack-booted thug regime"

I can't treat your post seriously, but for your information, the foreign minister of Thailand is General Tanasak. Who is his coffee boy has no bearing on Thailand's international status. The world WOULD have "less problems" with Thailand if the minister was a career diplomat. But he's not. He's a career soldier, four-star general and nominal leader of the junta which seized power and suppressed all civil rights in Thailand. That is the foreign minister of Thailand. The man who gets his coffee and asks permission to hand him papers to sign - THAT is a career diplomat and how the junta treats career diplomats.

Again, despite your trolling and deflections and refusal to face and discuss the facts in the previous posts. I actually ignored internal warnings that you had ulterior motives - hoping you would decide to engage in actual discussion. It turns out you should have left a couple of posts ago, when I couldn't actually prove my misgivings.

To stay on topic for the posters and readers and lurkers who are actually serious about this subject and thread, General Tanasak is a top-tier, four-star general from the regime generally criticised around the world including at the United Nations, who will not be welcomed in many countries, will be barred from some, and who will not get full respect at all international forums. No "coupist" of the past had this baggage.

Of course that is partly, maybe mainly because no foreign minister in history has served in September, 2014 - in an era when expectations of other countries include that they are NOT ruled by a junta and martial law from the 1960s.

Yes. Including the United Nations, which has already criticised Thailand's junta many times for serious and unaccepted (in 2014) human rights and civil rights violations. General Tanasak is the supreme commander of that junta. It's not a good idea to make him the face of the country throughout the world - even if the man who gets his coffee and carries his briefcase is a terrific diplomat - which he is.

Discussion of the above welcomed except the part claiming that a TVF regular is unable to use Google. No discussion of that ridiculous claim is necessary.

I have an idea!

Why not post YOUR ideas on the capabilities of the man? Fine to be a polling machine asking everyone else three or four times if they are SURE about their opinions - but have you no knowledge of the subject whatsoever?

.

[wandasloan]

BTW "jack-booted thug regime" ? and that in "all international forums"? Even the UN? A pointer to the UN condemnation today, please. Yahoo only seems to give the initial condemnation of the 23rd of May.

I didn't at first understand why you would make such a ridiculous claim. After several nanoseconds, I realised why. But anyway, I forgot to put this Yahoo link in the above post. And yes, it is a Yahoo search link.

http://goo.gl/j7fpmj

.

[Lupatria]

I think it is none of our (farang) business to comment on the appointment of politicians in Thailand and if you see, what mess the recent "democratically elected" governments produced ..........

I happen to know Deputy Foreign Minister Don Pramudwinai quite well. I came across him when he was appointed Ambassador of Thailand to Switzerland, he then moved on to other Head of Mission posts in Washington and Beijing apart from being the spokesman for the Foreign Minister. All these postings happened under different governments and nobody sends a fool to such (for Thailand important) countries like the US or PR China. He is an absolute top notch diplomat and Thailand can be nothing short but proud of having such excellent experts, professional, unbiased and uncorrupt.

His posting as Deputy is absolutely spot on; proves of leadership qualities by the PM and will be a fantastic back-up help for the Foreign Minister.

Give them a chance - they certainly deserve it!

I think it is none of our (farang) business to comment on the appointment of politicians in Thailand...

Hm, then why didn't you stop here?

..... to give everybody a chance to pinpoint the contradiction 8-)

…or was it more not to miss the chance to tell the rest of the world that you know a Deputy Foreign Minister quite well? Now I’m so excited and curious. I almost like to know: does it feel good?

[Sydebolle]

I think it is none of our (farang) business to comment on the appointment of politicians in Thailand and if you see, what mess the recent "democratically elected" governments produced ..........

I happen to know Deputy Foreign Minister Don Pramudwinai quite well. I came across him when he was appointed Ambassador of Thailand to Switzerland, he then moved on to other Head of Mission posts in Washington and Beijing apart from being the spokesman for the Foreign Minister. All these postings happened under different governments and nobody sends a fool to such (for Thailand important) countries like the US or PR China. He is an absolute top notch diplomat and Thailand can be nothing short but proud of having such excellent experts, professional, unbiased and uncorrupt.

His posting as Deputy is absolutely spot on; proves of leadership qualities by the PM and will be a fantastic back-up help for the Foreign Minister.

Give them a chance - they certainly deserve it!

I think it is none of our (farang) business to comment on the appointment of politicians in Thailand...

Hm, then why didn't you stop here?

..... to give everybody a chance to pinpoint the contradiction 8-)

…or was it more not to miss the chance to tell the rest of the world that you know a Deputy Foreign Minister quite well? Now I’m so excited and curious. I almost like to know: does it feel good?

Hi 5 - you got it.

Always knew that there are some really, really smart fellas out there. I am though more realistic; in all honesty, who cares who I know and who not?

Resting my case

[Sydebolle]

His posting as Deputy is absolutely spot on; proves of leadership qualities by the PM and will be a fantastic back-up help for the Foreign Minister.

Give them a chance - they certainly deserve it!

So you think pushing this brilliant, excellent diplomat down to second place under a four-star general and coup-maker without a shred of diplomatic, international experience — shunting aside an excellent diplomat with rafts of experience - someone you personally known and admire - is proof of excellent leadership. The logic of that escapes me even further than the actual goofiness of the action itself, which appalls me.

Just wondering what you would have thought if Don had been appointed as minister of foreign affairs, instead of Briefcase Holder of the Minister of Foreign Affairs. I think it would have been a good idea. You seem to think he's not really qualified for the job, compared with this actual appointee who has no experience at all and who is weighed down by guns, medals and dress greens. I think Don would have actually got respect.

Excellent post on a very foolish one.I have no reason to doubt this particular bureaucrat's professional skills but he will wrestle with having a dimbulb general as his boss - as welcome to the rest of the civilised world as a fart in a phone box.Anyway that ludicrous and rather sinister little dumpling Kasit was Head of Mission in his time, so that fact doesn't exactly guarantee quality control.

"dimbulb general" ?

As in the slang word originating in the USA putting "dim" and "bulb" together meaning "a stupid person", "dimwit" ?

Brave sir Robin, any proof the new MoFA is as you claim ?

As mentioned earlier on; I don't know and never met the FM - the future will tell. But usually the Number 2 behind the Number 1 is ...... second to the best; there is hope - IMHO.

[Sydebolle]

....

And you are entirely wrong about "normally". Normally, Thailand's foreign minister is a career diplomat from the very excellent ministry of foreign affairs. The most recent government did not do that, which was a very un-normal arrangement. The Yingluck government was widely and often criticised for its choice of an outsider as foreign minister. Thailand's foreign service is quite respected worldwide.

....

The Abhisit cabinet had k. Kasit as MoFA, a career diplomat. The Somchai cabinet had k. Sompong, a lawyer, the Samak cabinet k. Noppadon, a lawyer/politician. Gen. Surayuth had k. Nitya, a career diplomat. Thaksin I and II had k. Surakiart, a lawyer/politician.

So, "normally" means what ?

Well, don't forget Dr. Thaksin was Foreign Minister from 25 October 1994 until 10 February 1995

[rubl]

BTW "jack-booted thug regime" ? and that in "all international forums"? Even the UN? A pointer to the UN condemnation today, please. Yahoo only seems to give the initial condemnation of the 23rd of May.

You're not serious. I don't like labelling people but that paragraph was written by a troll. And it's strange, debasing yourself with a claim in 2014 that you do not know how to use Google. You already know this, and I KNOW you already know this, but click here for a real-life demonstration on how YOU use Google in normal circumstances, when you are not trolling:

http://tinyurl.com/lsdfswy

The followinig were written/published in the hours before your post. You are trying to deflect this entire thread by claiming you couldn't find one of them. That is an impossibility for anyone with an internet connection and the ability to find a discussion forum. Your post is only intended to take this thread off topic, for purposes you know:

...

Wanda, my dear, try to behave will you.

You wrote

"The United Nations condemned Thailand again today for jack-bootery. What's the foreign minister done about it, or what does he intend to do? Do tell."

as this is on Foreign Affairs and diplomats I thought I'd rather search for 'condemn' instead of 'jack-bootery'. That didn't give the result I expect after your claim. Now with your explanation I understand I should have searched for the much more serious charge of "expresses concern" and "voices serious concern".

PS none of your business, but I started with search engines in 1994/5. DEC AltaVista, used internally at first. I do know how to search. I do know how people can put you off by giving the wrong search criteria. Of course, if I didn't have anything else to do, I might have made a few different searches which would have given me all the concern required.

[rubl]

I can't treat your post seriously, but for your information, the foreign minister of Thailand is General Tanasak. Who is his coffee boy has no bearing on Thailand's international status. The world WOULD have "less problems" with Thailand if the minister was a career diplomat. But he's not. He's a career soldier, four-star general and nominal leader of the junta which seized power and suppressed all civil rights in Thailand. That is the foreign minister of Thailand. The man who gets his coffee and asks permission to hand him papers to sign - THAT is a career diplomat and how the junta treats career diplomats.

Again, despite your trolling and deflections and refusal to face and discuss the facts in the previous posts. I actually ignored internal warnings that you had ulterior motives - hoping you would decide to engage in actual discussion. It turns out you should have left a couple of posts ago, when I couldn't actually prove my misgivings.

To stay on topic for the posters and readers and lurkers who are actually serious about this subject and thread, General Tanasak is a top-tier, four-star general from the regime generally criticised around the world including at the United Nations, who will not be welcomed in many countries, will be barred from some, and who will not get full respect at all international forums. No "coupist" of the past had this baggage.

Of course that is partly, maybe mainly because no foreign minister in history has served in September, 2014 - in an era when expectations of other countries include that they are NOT ruled by a junta and martial law from the 1960s.

Yes. Including the United Nations, which has already criticised Thailand's junta many times for serious and unaccepted (in 2014) human rights and civil rights violations. General Tanasak is the supreme commander of that junta. It's not a good idea to make him the face of the country throughout the world - even if the man who gets his coffee and carries his briefcase is a terrific diplomat - which he is.

...

Wanda, why would 'the world' have less problems with a career diplomat appointed as MoFA directly reporting to the PM?

In the world of diplomacy the idea is to avoid talking to straight, in order to be able to discuss and negotiate. If 'the world' starts a discussion "well, first of all we see you as tool of the junta" the discussion is over.

To have a career diplomat as Dept. MoFA allows all kind of diplomatic talks without too much give or take. Of course the general public will not be told of this because diplomacy doesn't work like that.

The question now would be how activities will be 'shared' between MoFA and Dept. MoFA. IMHO