Your First Time In Thailand

[bkkmadness]

The implication seems to be there

absolutely brilliant. not only do you say it is now an 'implication' you also say the implication 'seems' to be there.

so i didn't write what you said then.

pay attention please.

Perhaps you need to be a little clearer when writing down your wife's thoughts.

So, are you a snob? Lets have your opinion on the matter. Is gold for the poor, the peasants, the dregs of Thai society? Is eating roadside food? Is eating bugs?

[tourleadersi]

The implication seems to be there

absolutely brilliant. not only do you say it is now an 'implication' you also say the implication 'seems' to be there.

so i didn't write what you said then.

pay attention please.

Leftcross. The implication was most definately there if my response and others is to be taken in to consideration. The fact that people reacted to what you said can only mean one thing, that your statements were inflamatory.

It may well be the case that we did not interpret your wording correctly, or that you somehow failed to explain yourself clearly. Either way, the fact still stands that the statements that you did make implied that people who street food are in the lower echelons of soceity.

[leftcross]

Perhaps you need to be a little clearer when writing down your wife's thoughts.

So, are you a snob? Lets have your opinion on the matter. Is gold for the poor, the peasants, the dregs of Thai society? Is eating roadside food? Is eating bugs?

what are you trying to hide/defend Bkkmadness? i have a good idea.

my opinion - people draped in gold are chavs, people who eat insects are peasants.

am i a snob? if thinking you are higher up the ladder in society than the dirt poor in a third world country makes a person a snob then yes i am. i would say it is accepting the social order. i am nowhere near the top of that order, but i am nowhere near the bottom either.

tourleadersi - shouldn't you be starting another thread about how great bargirls are (snigger). that shows just where you're coming from eh pal??

Edited July 15, 2006 by leftcross

[tourleadersi]

Perhaps you need to be a little clearer when writing down your wife's thoughts.

So, are you a snob? Lets have your opinion on the matter. Is gold for the poor, the peasants, the dregs of Thai society? Is eating roadside food? Is eating bugs?

what are you trying to hide/defend Bkkmadness? i have a good idea.

my opinion - people draped in gold are chavs, people who eat insects are peasants.

am i a snob? if thinking you are higher up the ladder in society than the dirt poor in a third world country makes a person a snob then yes i am. i would say it is accepting the social order. i am nowhere near the top of that order, but i am nowhere near the bottom either.

tourleadersi - shouldn't you be starting another thread about how great bargirls are (snigger). that shows just where you're coming from eh pal??

Honestly mate, I won't go away. So I started (in complete error and have reported myself to the mods) a thread about some bargirls that have actually shown heart and bucked the trend and done good. Please everyone do not comment on that as it is not what this forum is about). I am not ashamed to count some of them as good friends just as you are not ashamed to call people less fortunate than you 'peasants'. I am sure all of your friends are not complete stuck up snobs as much as mine are not all ........... (I'm sure you have better words to describe them than I do) The fact that you dragged my error across to this thread so that you could 'snigger' speaks volumes.

Perhaps before this spirals out of control and we both get sin binned we should just agree to disagree? I cannot and will not ever accept your outlook on life. Yes you are better off financially than a lot of people in this country, but to be honest mate, that appears to be it.

[bkkmadness]

what are you trying to hide/defend Bkkmadness? i have a good idea.

A world full of poor people from pricks like yourself.

But I'm sure you'll try to take some cheap shot at my gf or something here so do explain yourself if you must.

my opinion - people draped in gold are chavs, people who eat insects are peasants.

Interesting link that might help expand your mind.

am i a snob? if thinking you are higher up the ladder in society than the dirt poor in a third world country makes a person a snob then yes i am.

Ah, another one who has come to Thailand to beat the poor natives with a stick. Is it their fault they are poor? For some yes, for others no, it's part of the state of the country you live in.

We were lucky to have been born in the west with its great education and work opportunities, not all were as fortunate (in fact a large amount of the world's population wasn't). Should we use our obvious advantages in life to sneer at the other less fortunate? Is that what your education has taught you?

i would say it is accepting the social order. i am nowhere near the top of that order, but i am nowhere near the bottom either.

So I would imagine the people above you would also be right to call you and your wife the dregs of society? Do you consider that acceptable?

Edited July 15, 2006 by bkkmadness

[Martin]

I am a peasant, and very pleased to be one.

For dozens of generations my forbears were peasants, but twelve generations ago, when factory-based industrialisation started, one of my forbears saw that his family would be better off in agri-business than peasantry. So he moved them from far up in the Yorkshire Dales to a small farm just outside Bradford, and specialised in producing milk and retailing it.

Some of the family took up other urban occupations, but most of them maintained some self-sufficient peasantry alongside; in the form of having a substantial vegetable garden, pigs and poultry and so on. Or an allotment, if they were council-house tenants.

I was brought up to understand that land-holding, self-sufficient peasantry was the primary elite, as its members had a security that wage-earners didn't, even if they were getting a big income in one of the 'posh' professions. Those could only be members of secondary elites, providing services to the primary elite. Or, as the curriculum-delivery operatives in education, members of a tertiary elite.

Now I watch our rice grow, and don't worry if the dollar does collapse and take all the other currencies with it (as many fear) because we have our savings in physical gold.

If this makes me a dreg at the bottom, then so be it. Better than being froth, or something else, on the top.

[leftcross]

A world full of poor people from pricks like yourself.

But I'm sure you'll try to take some cheap shot at my gf or something here so do explain yourself if you must.

i don't take cheap shots at easy targets, it's a waste of time.

Interesting link that might help expand your mind.

boring

Ah, another one who has come to Thailand to beat the poor natives with a stick. Is it their fault they are poor? For some yes, for others no, it's part of the state of the country you live in.

We were lucky to have been born in the west with its great education and work opportunities, not all were as fortunate (in fact a large amount of the world's population wasn't). Should we use our obvious advantages in life to sneer at the other less fortunate? Is that what your education has taught you?

there you go again, fighting an imaginary argument. how do you get the ludicrous notion i 'beat the poor natives with a stick'???? take your politically correct nonsense, sir, and shove it right up your harris. there are divides in every society, live with it. everybody isn't equal, people have different status.

it isn't wrong to comment on it or point it out.

So I would imagine the people above you would also be right to call you and your wife the dregs of society? Do you consider that acceptable?

i'd have to ask my wife about that

[bkkmadness]

take your politically correct nonsense, sir, and shove it right up your harris. there are divides in every society, live with it. everybody isn't equal, people have different status.

it isn't wrong to comment on it or point it out.

A status decided by whom? And are you sure it's accepted by all? I consider my status equal to any person, not above or below another person on the basis on how wealthy a family/country I was born in. Why should I?

There's no political nonsense, but to consider people who were born much poorer with you as the dregs of society is plainly wrong, don't you think?

i'd have to ask my wife about that

Well don't forget to get back us when you have.

Would you really be happy if someone called your wife the dregs of society because in your mind they hold a higher status than you?

How could you accept that opinion of your wife or yourself from someone just because they have more money/education than you? And why do you have that opinion of others that have less?

I fear your education was wasted.

[leftcross]

A status decided by whom? And are you sure it's accepted by all? I consider my status equal to any person, not above or below another person on the basis on how wealthy a family/country I was born in. Why should I?

There's no political nonsense, but to consider people who were born much poorer with you as the dregs of society is plainly wrong, don't you think?

what a beautiful world you describe, just don't open your curtains and have a look at the real thing, you may be shocked.

you may find it eases your guilt to consider yourself equal to the beggar on the street but i deal in facts. i am not equal and i live in a heirachical society.

Would you really be happy if someone called your wife the dregs of society because in your mind they hold a higher status than you?

my wife's position in society would not be considered as the dregs in any country in the world. she is as middle class as they come. however, i cannot speak for the status of your wife and so the issue becomes clouded.

I fear your education was wasted.

evidence would point to the contrary old bean. awafully sorry about that.

[bkkmadness]

A status decided by whom? And are you sure it's accepted by all? I consider my status equal to any person, not above or below another person on the basis on how wealthy a family/country I was born in. Why should I?

There's no political nonsense, but to consider people who were born much poorer with you as the dregs of society is plainly wrong, don't you think?

what a beautiful world you describe, just don't open your curtains and have a look at the real thing, you may be shocked.

Oh I do understand the way the majority think and the way the world is, but I don't personally agree with it or think that way myself. It's called having individual free thought, something I'm blessed with. Are you the Borg or something?

you may find it eases your guilt to consider yourself equal to the beggar on the street but i deal in facts. i am not equal and i live in a heirachical society.

Would you really be happy if someone called your wife the dregs of society because in your mind they hold a higher status than you?

my wife's position in society would not be considered as the dregs in any country in the world. she is as middle class as they come. however, i cannot speak for the status of your wife and so the issue becomes clouded.

Incorrect. Many would consider your wife a whore just because she married a farang. Many would consider her of lower status just because she was born Thai. Prejudices are rife in this world we live in, and its people like you that help these prejudices thrive. Can you imagine if she was born into a poorer family, you yourself would consider her the dregs of society for that horrific mistake.

I fear your education was wasted.

evidence would point to the contrary old bean. awafully sorry about that.

The irony of the spelling mistake whilst boasting of your education is almost too funny too comment on.

[Simbo]

A status decided by whom? And are you sure it's accepted by all? I consider my status equal to any person, not above or below another person on the basis on how wealthy a family/country I was born in. Why should I?

There's no political nonsense, but to consider people who were born much poorer with you as the dregs of society is plainly wrong, don't you think?

what a beautiful world you describe, just don't open your curtains and have a look at the real thing, you may be shocked.

you may find it eases your guilt to consider yourself equal to the beggar on the street but i deal in facts. i am not equal and i live in a heirachical society.

Would you really be happy if someone called your wife the dregs of society because in your mind they hold a higher status than you?

my wife's position in society would not be considered as the dregs in any country in the world. she is as middle class as they come. however, i cannot speak for the status of your wife and so the issue becomes clouded.

I fear your education was wasted.

evidence would point to the contrary old bean. awafully sorry about that.

Spelling correction. AwaFully------- Awfully

[leftcross]

Incorrect. Many would consider your wife a whore just because she married a farang. Many would consider her of lower status just because she was born Thai. Prejudices are rife in this world we live in, and its people like you that help these prejudices thrive. Can you imagine if she was born into a poorer family, you yourself would consider her the dregs of society for that horrific mistake.

i wouldn't have married my wife if she was from the poorest section of society as we wouldnt have had anything in common. perhaps back at home you toured the salvation army hostels looking for potential partners just to show the world what a great person you are?

thanks for drawing attention to the spelling mistake, it merely shows that you cannot argue the basic points in an intelligent manner.

will you start swearing now too? (oh, you already have)

[Lacoste]

I think that was actualy done intentionaly to give it an accent of the way someone in England would say this in jest.

IMHO

[bkkmadness]

i cannot speak for the status of your wife and so the issue becomes clouded.

I'm guessing this is the attempt of the cheap shot leftcross said he wouldn't take.

What a bore to make this a 'battle of who has highest status wife'.

[bkkmadness]

Incorrect. Many would consider your wife a whore just because she married a farang. Many would consider her of lower status just because she was born Thai. Prejudices are rife in this world we live in, and its people like you that help these prejudices thrive. Can you imagine if she was born into a poorer family, you yourself would consider her the dregs of society for that horrific mistake.

i wouldn't have married my wife if she was from the poorest section of society as we wouldnt have had anything in common.

I understand that point totally, congratulations, you've done well for yourself.

But we are not talking about looking for potential partners, we are talking about your previous comment that...

am i a snob? if thinking you are higher up the ladder in society than the dirt poor in a third world country makes a person a snob then yes i am.

Are you managing to keep up with this conversation of is your love for your wife's status clouding the issue further for you?

We aren't talking about wives, we are talking about your comments towards people from the poorer sector of Thai society being the dregs of society. Is that clear yet? Has your education and status prepared you for a discussion on an internet forum?

Ok, in the interest of keeping the real discussion going...

Does eating insects mean you are the dregs of society?

Does having no education mean you are the dregs of society?

Does wearing gold or having gold bought you for you mean you are the dregs of society?

You might be shocked to know that the highest member of Thai society has eaten insects and wears gold. But I expect you know better.

[leftcross]

I'm guessing this is the attempt of the cheap shot leftcross said he wouldn't take.

is this like a comical aside to the audience with a knowing wink??? bizarre.

the thread was actually about what thai women had got western men to do for them when they first arrived in thailand. that's why wives have been mentioned.

if you wish to talk about insect eating etc etc then i suggest you start another thread (exeunts stage left, followed by a bear)

[bkkmadness]

I'm guessing this is the attempt of the cheap shot leftcross said he wouldn't take.

is this like a comical aside to the audience with a knowing wink??? bizarre.

the thread was actually about what thai women had got western men to do for them when they first arrived in thailand. that's why wives have been mentioned.

if you wish to talk about insect eating etc etc then i suggest you start another thread (exeunts stage left, followed by a bear)

It was indeed, well done, you're following the conversation. I found it quite amusing myself (cue for leftcross to make a 'small minds, small pleasures joke').

I haven't the time to make another thread, but if you do I'd be sincerely pleased to discuss it with you. I actually like a discussion, if we could get past the snipes at each other then perhaps it'll be a decent one.

Perhaps a poll : Are Thai people that eat insects the dregs of Thailand society?

bkkmadness exits the stage to powder his nose

[bkkmadness]

In fact I'll set it up myself, but in the interest of fairness confirm that poll title for me and I'll do it now.

[lannarebirth]

the gold buying, bug eating, house building for mum caper only really applies if you are involved in relationships with the peasants of thailand.

my wife hates gold (says it makes you look like a poor person), would never dream of eating insects (or food from a roadside stall) and her parents already have a fantastic house.

you people should really try mixing in a better class of thai instead of giving all your money to the dregs.

Hmmm, my Thai girlfriend has a college education and speaks english and french very well, her sister living in Spain has a college education and speaks english and spanish very well, her other sister living in Germany has a college education and speaks english and German very well. Her brother living in Singapore has a college education and speaks english and chinese very well. Her mother has a college education and speaks english very well. And you know what? They all love eating bugs. I have to admit those worms that live in the bamboo are pretty tasty.

Edited July 15, 2006 by lannarebirth

[OlRedEyes]

This burning desire to have 'status', does it spring from an earlier or current inferiority complex, or a lack of self-respect I wonder. Or something else. There are a few possibilities, but none of them seem positive.

And who would really be the dregs of any society... those who are poor or those that exploit the poor's labour to get rich. Or those that start wars and kill thousands. Or those that just stand by and watch.

[thaiknot]

Insects have more protein per ounce than any other source including beef,fish,etc.At least that was what my instructors told me as they made me eat a worm in Outward Bound as part of the wilderness survival training.But once was enough and would only eat bugs if I was lost in the woods and really really hungry.

And gold is gold.Only know the rich can afford it and hold it and one day those with the gold will be the only ones who are rich when fiat paper money becomes worthless paper.I like gold better than cash and buy more every time the price goes down.

And I've dated really rich girls and really poor girls and they were all equally cute,soft,and huggable.

[leftcross]

In fact I'll set it up myself, but in the interest of fairness confirm that poll title for me and I'll do it now.

I think your title of ''Are Thai people that eat insects the dregs of Thailand society?'' is loaded too much towards the liberal do-gooders among us.

Perhaps ''Do hi-so Thais eat insects? If so, where is the best restuarant in Emporium to sample them while rubbing shoulders with the creme de la creme?''

[cooL_guY_corY]

i've read a lot of this thread so far and i am visibly sober too, and there is a (not?) shocking, recurring theme of extreme reactionism by multiple parties.

my condolences.

Also back to the original theme / stuff of this thread.. a lot of people in thailand who are farangs seem to be middle aged, single (or coming with out their partner) males. These people often seem to be in relationships with huge age gaps, maybe a lot of it (majority?) of this starts at "lady bars" obviously everyone has their own story etc about how this type of stuff happens and some people do get taken advantage of and some people do not. Anyway i think that to be in a relationship (not just in the tropics for that matter, could be anywhere) you should really pay attention to the themes of the relationship (ie shopping gold cash money?). A lot of people seem to be living in a dream world, maybe an abundance of bahtz or just plain hallucinating, hard to say. What i seem to notice is that people who are similar ages or age groups seem to have more honest, realistic things going on. My self, when i first came here a few years ago when i was 19 ( 21 now..) I had a few different girlfriends and they would usually help me out with money, phones, teach me how to cook extreme food and that type of stuff, and things just seemed a lot more clearer and upfront when you know someone is not interested in you for monetary gain. Obviously some girls are willing to maybe take advantage of you for their own (physical kind of thing) needs but thats human nature and young people will be young people. Anyways buying gifts for someone should'nt be a mistake ( if you bought a girlfriend or boyfriend a gift and then later brokeup with them, would giving them a birthday present or something be a mistake?) but it seems that so many people are involved and obsessed with paying for girls (or boys) in the sex tourism sort of way, that ugly stereotypes of farangs and Thailand and the people of Thailand get created. Offside abbreviations like "tg" and other variations of that type of stuff are so common on this forum and all the other thailand forums too that it is rather sad. Thailand gets exploited enough already without all these people doing all their messed up stuff. Things seem to be getting off track here. I recently obtained a house up north, (obviously farangs can not own land here) with some help of a close friend of mine, who i go way back with, and i can not get my mind around people who buy there partneres families free houses ? What gives, just use that money for magic liqour ( special cognac perhaps?) instead.

[bkkmadness]

In fact I'll set it up myself, but in the interest of fairness confirm that poll title for me and I'll do it now.

I think your title of ''Are Thai people that eat insects the dregs of Thailand society?'' is loaded too much towards the liberal do-gooders among us.

Perhaps ''Do hi-so Thais eat insects? If so, where is the best restuarant in Emporium to sample them while rubbing shoulders with the creme de la creme?''

Ok in fairness I think we might have to leave out the Emporium, not that I know of many hi so restaurants there.

I think the first option probably seems better and more in tune with what we are arguing out. I'm sure we can sort out the liberal do gooders from the free thinkers whilst we are there.

I'll set it up now leftcross and perhaps some more opinions from people like lannarebirth will help you broaden your views on Thailand a little.

[leftcross]

i look forward to being patronised further, thanks.

[bkkmadness]

i look forward to being patronised further, thanks.

If your happy to patronise others, then you should expect that yourself don't you think? Never been told that you should 'treat others as you wish to be treated yourself'?

[bkkmadness]

To get back on topic.

Obviously some girls are willing to maybe take advantage of you for their own (physical kind of thing) needs but thats human nature and young people will be young people.

What a terrible thing.

Anyways buying gifts for someone should'nt be a mistake ( if you bought a girlfriend or boyfriend a gift and then later brokeup with them, would giving them a birthday present or something be a mistake?) but it seems that so many people are involved and obsessed with paying for girls (or boys) in the sex tourism sort of way, that ugly stereotypes of farangs and Thailand and the people of Thailand get created.

Totally agree. I'd love to buy my gfs grandma a house, never been asked for it but I'm up there a lot of the time and since it wouldn't cost much and she's helped me out many a time if I had the cash I'd just do it. I imagine many a person would consider me a sucker for it, precisely for the reason that you stated.

and i can not get my mind around people who buy there partneres families free houses ? What gives, just use that money for magic liqour

Some people have lots of cash, and a gift of a house in a part of Thailand is akin to you buying a gift of a bottle of Sang Som for someone. Easy to do, and since it is their 'family', why not?

As I say, going back to the point of my gfs grandmas house, I've never been asked to buy her one, in fact never asked for a baht of cash, but if I was earning big bucks and the house cost me a months of my earnings to buy then I'd happily make a nice present of it. End of the day if I break with my gf then I've still gave a great person a great gift and I don't think I'd ever regret that. I would never consider it a classic mistake.

[kayo]

i look forward to being patronised further, thanks.

If your happy to patronise others, then you should expect that yourself don't you think? Never been told that you should 'treat others as you wish to be treated yourself'?

now, Maddy...

if you´re happy to patronise others, then you .... Have you never been told....

I mean, honestly.... How can you go around patronising others if you can´t do it properly....

[chonabot]

That is my opinion.

As I said, back home I did not mix with the dregs off the council estates as my world was completely different to theirs.

I worked, they didn't. I was educated, they weren't. I supported myself without looking for handouts, they didn't. Do you see the connection?

Still, you sound happy with your lot so I'm happy for you.

I generally enjoy your posting, but with today's efforts you have come across as a smug tit.

I have several degrees, 2 houses and earn a large salary. I also have enough integrity to take people as they are, despite the background.

[leftcross]

yes, perhaps i was a bit out of order.

i couldn't help winding Bkkmadness up once he offered the bait