Woman beheaded in London attack

[NeverSure]

As in the thirties.....

Wouldn't be good for vinnielintana, far right would exterminate anarchists

Anarchists are as far right as you can get.

I had in mind the definition below that would be antithesis to a far right government

"Anarchism holds the State to be undesirable, unnecessary, or harmful"

You said: "Anarchism holds the State to be undesirable, unnecessary, or harmful"

And I said: "The right objects to government control and prefers freedom to being controlled."

I guess you'll have to tell me what the difference is. The Right wants far less government than the Left does and that's as simple as it can be said.

Some on the very far right would like nothing from government other than to protect its borders.

[Thai at Heart]

I am wondering how anyone can claim that it is NOT terrorism. It sure looks like it is. Maybe the detective meant that it was not terrorism organized by a group?

Everyone would love for this to be a random nutter. They pleaded, prayed and hoped.

And then no. It is in the papers that he is a recent convert. Of course now, they are going to say he was on drugs or something.

And then of course they are going to investigate and find that he had probably become an extremely devout Muslim who objected to this poor 80 year old woman showing her hemline.

It is what it is. A young Muslim convert hacked the head off an 80 year old bystander. Ghastly and ghoulish.

I am not sure I want to know why.

[Briggsy]

Apparently the killer had never had a job and was an aspiring cage-fighter (note: aspiring). He came to the UK as a child from Nigeria brought over by other family members. Why am I not surprised?

Oh well, he will get his army of psychotherapists now and free wide screen tv, X-box and subscription to all cable channels in addition to free bed and board all funded by the taxpayer for the rest of his life. This is what he wanted notoriety and never having to do a tap.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Briggsy

[transam]

Perhaps the guy was psyching himself up (cat/car) to do the dastardly deed...............

[Steely Dan]

I am wondering how anyone can claim that it is NOT terrorism. It sure looks like it is. Maybe the detective meant that it was not terrorism organized by a group?

Everyone would love for this to be a random nutter. They pleaded, prayed and hoped.

And then no. It is in the papers that he is a recent convert. Of course now, they are going to say he was on drugs or something.

And then of course they are going to investigate and find that he had probably become an extremely devout Muslim who objected to this poor 80 year old woman showing her hemline.

It is what it is. A young Muslim convert hacked the head off an 80 year old bystander. Ghastly and ghoulish.

I am not sure I want to know why.

Of course the usual excuses will be trotted out all followed by the universal assertion he misunderstood Islam. What gets me is how many converts to Islam seem to misunderstand it in exactly the same way. And here's a challenge for anyone, find any recent convert to any other religion who promptly murdered someone and then quoted it's scripture as a justification.

Of course we are not there yet, I will be interested in how the law treats this case as much as I am how the press does.

[Briggsy]

It is what it is. A young Muslim convert hacked the head off an 80 year old bystander. Ghastly and ghoulish.

....and a cat, sir.

[transam]

It is what it is. A young Muslim convert hacked the head off an 80 year old bystander. Ghastly and ghoulish.

....and a cat, sir.

Post #155....

[simple1]

It is what it is. A young Muslim convert hacked the head off an 80 year old bystander. Ghastly and ghoulish.

....and a cat, sir.

Post #155....

A media report claimed bystanders overheard him shouting about the cats had stolen his cigarette lighter. I suppose some could link the state of mind to an Islamic extremist...

Edited September 6, 2014 by simple1

[for real]

Well I'm a sceptic but 'recent convert' and head chopping...

The further disturbing element of this story is how the government tries to convince us that up is down, anything other than Islam. This is similar to the Foot Hood shooting in the USA where it was labeled "workplace violence." At a certain point, negligence can no longer explain the actions of governments willfully abandoning reason.

I honestly can't see any other reason than that they want some kind of civil unrest in Europe and the US.

Nowhere ever has two or more large ethnic or religious groups lived peacefully side by side, integrated and prospered together.

Why would anyone think it would be different this time.

the biggest fear of any government is to have an educated united workforce.

Divide and rule.

[Thai at Heart]

I am wondering how anyone can claim that it is NOT terrorism. It sure looks like it is. Maybe the detective meant that it was not terrorism organized by a group?

Everyone would love for this to be a random nutter. They pleaded, prayed and hoped.

And then no. It is in the papers that he is a recent convert. Of course now, they are going to say he was on drugs or something.

And then of course they are going to investigate and find that he had probably become an extremely devout Muslim who objected to this poor 80 year old woman showing her hemline.

It is what it is. A young Muslim convert hacked the head off an 80 year old bystander. Ghastly and ghoulish.

I am not sure I want to know why.

Of course the usual excuses will be trotted out all followed by the universal assertion he misunderstood Islam. What gets me is how many converts to Islam seem to misunderstand it in exactly the same way. And here's a challenge for anyone, find any recent convert to any other religion who promptly murdered someone and then quoted it's scripture as a justification.

Of course we are not there yet, I will be interested in how the law treats this case as much as I am how the press does.

Well, it possible he might try for diminished responsibility. But, reality is, he's going away for a very long time.

I await the local leaders speaking up. Please let's not demonize Muslims blablabla.

There is always the chance that he is a genuine nutter however what odds he has been radicalised or hates women? If so, what odds someone is going to pipe up very quietly,"yeah, we knew he was hanging out with those extremist preachers but he seemed normal".

No one seems that there is an obligation to the law of the land. If someone starts preaching to someone to break the law of the land, you HAVE TO REPORT IT.

Silence is breaking the law. By being silent and not reporting this stuff, you are complicit.

The NATO thing just happened nearby. If some judeo-christian group wanted to bomb it or attack the police violently and was using the house next door to radicalise people.

Would I report it or not? That is the choice that the Muslim community is faced with. It cannot have these mutters hiding in its midst, and then moan that all Muslims are being tarred. The community must assist with outing these people.

[for real]

Apparently the killer had never had a job and was an aspiring cage-fighter (note: aspiring). He came to the UK as a child from Nigeria brought over by other family members. Why am I not surprised?

Oh well, he will get his army of psychotherapists now and free wide screen tv, X-box and subscription to all cable channels in addition to free bed and board all funded by the taxpayer for the rest of his life. This is what he wanted notoriety and never having to do a tap.

And of course he had been bullied at school which of course accounted for his lack of education,etc,etc,etc,

Never mind his huge stature inside he was a timid schoolboy cowering away from white schoolboy thugs half his size..

As told to me often by social workers when I was employed by the GLC.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[arjunadawn]

Threads about (perceived) islamists really bring out the nutters, white trash, red necks, old farts, and frustrated.

Great observation. Threads that are "about (perceived) islamists" really [would] bring out the nutters, white trash, red necks, old farts, and frustrated people.

The problem with this observation is none of those threads are on TV. TV posts are related to real events declared or suspected to be associated with palpable islamist acts. In any event, if your observation were true, this would suggest the issue regarding "islamists" is causing a great deal of concern to those who will be affected. Why on earth would this issue be news if not because of real or "perceived" association with islamist jihad? Perhaps, instead of threads and posters, you should direct your incredulity to the news services.

This post- your post- is what I refer to when describing an Islamist Apologist; because your post can only seek to obscure and cloud palpable facts.

[arjunadawn]

I am wondering how anyone can claim that it is NOT terrorism. It sure looks like it is. Maybe the detective meant that it was not terrorism organized by a group?

Everyone would love for this to be a random nutter. They pleaded, prayed and hoped.

And then no. It is in the papers that he is a recent convert. Of course now, they are going to say he was on drugs or something.

And then of course they are going to investigate and find that he had probably become an extremely devout Muslim who objected to this poor 80 year old woman showing her hemline.

It is what it is. A young Muslim convert hacked the head off an 80 year old bystander. Ghastly and ghoulish.

I am not sure I want to know why.

Of course the usual excuses will be trotted out all followed by the universal assertion he misunderstood Islam. What gets me is how many converts to Islam seem to misunderstand it in exactly the same way. And here's a challenge for anyone, find any recent convert to any other religion who promptly murdered someone and then quoted it's scripture as a justification.

Of course we are not there yet, I will be interested in how the law treats this case as much as I am how the press does.

Well, it possible he might try for diminished responsibility. But, reality is, he's going away for a very long time.

I await the local leaders speaking up. Please let's not demonize Muslims blablabla.

There is always the chance that he is a genuine nutter however what odds he has been radicalised or hates women? If so, what odds someone is going to pipe up very quietly,"yeah, we knew he was hanging out with those extremist preachers but he seemed normal".

No one seems that there is an obligation to the law of the land. If someone starts preaching to someone to break the law of the land, you HAVE TO REPORT IT.

Silence is breaking the law. By being silent and not reporting this stuff, you are complicit.

The NATO thing just happened nearby. If some judeo-christian group wanted to bomb it or attack the police violently and was using the house next door to radicalise people.

Would I report it or not? That is the choice that the Muslim community is faced with. It cannot have these mutters hiding in its midst, and then moan that all Muslims are being tarred. The community must assist with outing these people.

Yes, perhaps he will go away for a long time. Our instincts say this must happen. However, when you look to the British legal system, an increasing amount of crimes are being mitigated do to cultural relativity and the fact that the defendant was brought up in a different religious context where "x,y,z" is permitted.

[transam]

Threads about (perceived) islamists really bring out the nutters, white trash, red necks, old farts, and frustrated.

Great observation. Threads that are "about (perceived) islamists" really [would] bring out the nutters, white trash, red necks, old farts, and frustrated people.

The problem with this observation is none of those threads are on TV. TV posts are related to real events declared or suspected to be associated with palpable islamist acts. In any event, if your observation were true, this would suggest the issue regarding "islamists" is causing a great deal of concern to those who will be affected. Why on earth would this issue be news if not because of real or "perceived" association with islamist jihad? Perhaps, instead of threads and posters, you should direct your incredulity to the news services.

This post- your post- is what I refer to when describing an Islamist Apologist; because your post can only seek to obscure and cloud palpable facts.

An old lady having her head chopped off would be news in the UK. Lets wait and see if there is a religious link in the future eh...

[Thai at Heart]

I am wondering how anyone can claim that it is NOT terrorism. It sure looks like it is. Maybe the detective meant that it was not terrorism organized by a group?

Everyone would love for this to be a random nutter. They pleaded, prayed and hoped.

And then no. It is in the papers that he is a recent convert. Of course now, they are going to say he was on drugs or something.

And then of course they are going to investigate and find that he had probably become an extremely devout Muslim who objected to this poor 80 year old woman showing her hemline.

It is what it is. A young Muslim convert hacked the head off an 80 year old bystander. Ghastly and ghoulish.

I am not sure I want to know why.

Of course the usual excuses will be trotted out all followed by the universal assertion he misunderstood Islam. What gets me is how many converts to Islam seem to misunderstand it in exactly the same way. And here's a challenge for anyone, find any recent convert to any other religion who promptly murdered someone and then quoted it's scripture as a justification.

Of course we are not there yet, I will be interested in how the law treats this case as much as I am how the press does.

Well, it possible he might try for diminished responsibility. But, reality is, he's going away for a very long time.

I await the local leaders speaking up. Please let's not demonize Muslims blablabla.

There is always the chance that he is a genuine nutter however what odds he has been radicalised or hates women? If so, what odds someone is going to pipe up very quietly,"yeah, we knew he was hanging out with those extremist preachers but he seemed normal".

No one seems that there is an obligation to the law of the land. If someone starts preaching to someone to break the law of the land, you HAVE TO REPORT IT.

Silence is breaking the law. By being silent and not reporting this stuff, you are complicit.

The NATO thing just happened nearby. If some judeo-christian group wanted to bomb it or attack the police violently and was using the house next door to radicalise people.

Would I report it or not? That is the choice that the Muslim community is faced with. It cannot have these mutters hiding in its midst, and then moan that all Muslims are being tarred. The community must assist with outing these people.

Yes, perhaps he will go away for a long time. Our instincts say this must happen. However, when you look to the British legal system, an increasing amount of crimes are being mitigated do to cultural relativity and the fact that the defendant was brought up in a different religious context where "x,y,z" is permitted.

Examples please, because I don't remember reading any.

Convictions that were reduced because of religious or cultural relativity? Where?

[Thai at Heart]

Threads about (perceived) islamists really bring out the nutters, white trash, red necks, old farts, and frustrated.

Great observation. Threads that are "about (perceived) islamists" really [would] bring out the nutters, white trash, red necks, old farts, and frustrated people.

The problem with this observation is none of those threads are on TV. TV posts are related to real events declared or suspected to be associated with palpable islamist acts. In any event, if your observation were true, this would suggest the issue regarding "islamists" is causing a great deal of concern to those who will be affected. Why on earth would this issue be news if not because of real or "perceived" association with islamist jihad? Perhaps, instead of threads and posters, you should direct your incredulity to the news services.

This post- your post- is what I refer to when describing an Islamist Apologist; because your post can only seek to obscure and cloud palpable facts.

An old lady having her head chopped off would be news in the UK. Lets wait and see if there is a religious link in the future eh...

Well its in the papers this morning that he is a Muslim convert. Let's wait to see how strong or definite the Muslim issue is.

I have a feeling its pretty likely there will be a faith issue in thus story somewhere.

[thaibeachlovers]

RIP Ms Silva.

The report makes it clear that nobody yet knows if he is a Muslim or not, and also makes it clear that the motive is unknown. But people will jump to conclusions and start mouthing off.

Some residents of the area, in Edmonton, north London, claimed last night that the suspect was a local man who had converted to Islam last year, but those claims could not be verified. Detectives said they had ruled out terrorism as a motive for the killing.

Stick to the facts.

<Detectives said they had ruled out terrorism as a motive for the killing.>

Of course they did. The British police are contaminated with PC, IMO. The fix was probably in as soon as the word Muslim was heard in connection with him.

[harryfrompattaya]

I feel as a Black Man that this was a hate crime fact very much hate. If you kill you have to hate. Many Farangs from England I do not like because they are cowards but you do not cut off their heads

[transam]

I feel as a Black Man that this was a hate crime fact very much hate. If you kill you have to hate. Many Farangs from England I do not like because they are cowards but you do not cut off their heads

Total rolox................Gawd 'elp us..............

[canuckamuck]

Too right.

Too right wing.

The right wing is the future mon ami.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

You can only blame yourselves...lefties/liberals/greenies with your hare-brained, failed ideoplogies.

When a nation is threatened with annihilation people tend to go for the most tribal/atavistic ideology...in the case of Europe, the far-right.

Amen.

As in the thirties.....

History does repeat. It is entirely possible that fascism is imminent. The cure is backing away from the left position, before the page turns and you find yourself on the far right.

[arjunadawn]

Examples please, because I don't remember reading any.

Convictions that were reduced because of religious or cultural relativity? Where?

I spent the past 30 min gather links and such. I most conclude I did try to find the links. Others have asked me to sometimes support my post with links, and sometimes I do or do not. In this case I did and I am not convinced my links support my statement. I was actually surprised the numerous ways I searched did not generate more hits. Fair is fair. I will look more closely why I think this is true. I frequent numerous sites through the course of the day, and many news feeds. I am a junkie for news and such. Somewhere along the line I had come to the impression that incresingly, the UK's judicial system is feeding a preferential treatment for many muslims.

There is a significant link though that the justice section of UK adamantly dismissed efforts to act more sternly toward terrorism based cases. This suggests my point clearly but you asked for examples. I don't think I provided many that satisfy your request- really; yet I still depart this research convinced I am correct. I will have to reconcile that.

Combination judicial and other links

http://infowars.net/articles/december2006/101206terror.htm

http://uniset.ca/terr/news/ind_judgesaccuse.html

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article1950218.ece

Rejected!

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmhaff/910/910i.pdf

Cross of St George rejected for muslims: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2006/jun/09/therewillbenoflagabovemy

Outrageous appeasement to self police,and go after “Islamophobes.” Muslim input insisted on this last unit. This is Chatham House nonsense; you can thank them for many problems (So can the Thais): http://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/files/chathamhouse/public/International%20Affairs/Blanket%20File%20Import/83_11-18.pdf

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2006/dec/10/uk.terrorism

http://wwrn.org/articles/14458/

http://www.meforum.org/3348/western-courts-islamic-practices

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10716844/Islamic-law-is-adopted-by-British-legal-chiefs.html

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/206112/mad-jews-hindus-englishmen/carla-t-main

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7657600/Muslim-walks-free-as-court-told-Osama-bin-Laden-graffiti-not-religiously-motivated.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1574694/Bishop-warns-of-no-go-zones-for-non-Muslims.html

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4112/islamization-britain

[arjunadawn]

Threads about (perceived) islamists really bring out the nutters, white trash, red necks, old farts, and frustrated.

Great observation. Threads that are "about (perceived) islamists" really [would] bring out the nutters, white trash, red necks, old farts, and frustrated people.

The problem with this observation is none of those threads are on TV. TV posts are related to real events declared or suspected to be associated with palpable islamist acts. In any event, if your observation were true, this would suggest the issue regarding "islamists" is causing a great deal of concern to those who will be affected. Why on earth would this issue be news if not because of real or "perceived" association with islamist jihad? Perhaps, instead of threads and posters, you should direct your incredulity to the news services.

This post- your post- is what I refer to when describing an Islamist Apologist; because your post can only seek to obscure and cloud palpable facts.

An old lady having her head chopped off would be news in the UK. Lets wait and see if there is a religious link in the future eh...

Well its in the papers this morning that he is a Muslim convert. Let's wait to see how strong or definite the Muslim issue is.

I have a feeling its pretty likely there will be a faith issue in thus story somewhere.

Huh? Is there a separate process whereby someone's strength in belief is measured? If I say I blow men is there a reason for you to suspect otherwise? Do I need to be led to a restroom to prove my point? Sitting at the bar, might you say "let's see if there is a penis link in the future." No! You assume I enjoy a good dick after a long day at the office. If he says he is a muslim convert or he otherwise is, than that is that is that! Gosh, this is why were are like mooing cows lining up at the slaughterhouse. Yes, yes, yes... there is a faith issue in this story.

[7by7]

I have to admit that I gave up reading most of this topic after page three due to the massive amount of ignorant posts attempting to blame this horrendous crime on the man's religion; so I may be repeating what has already been said.

From all the eye witness and other accounts, that he may or may not have converted to Islam at some point in the past is totally irrelevant.

This one from the Mirror, for example.

There had been reports Salvadore was a Muslim convert and the killing was linked to terror but friends tonight dismissed the claims and believe something made him flip.

His best pal Alfie Keys said: “None of that is true.”

He later wrote on ­Facebook: “This person that did this mental crime was not my pal Nic, but someone who has lost his mind… and clearly lost it.

“We were like family. He killed my pal’s cat which he would never do. He loved animals and life.

“He was not a terrorist, he was a sick man with no family and no one to help him. I’ve had him sleeping at mine and would trust him around my mum brother and ­girlfriend.

“Don’t tell me he’s this monster. He lost it and ­probably doesn’t know what he’s done.”

Even the Telegraph, which has played the Muslim card more than most (except the Sun) doesn't link the crime to Islamic funamentalism.

Mrs Silva is understood to have been attacked by a suspect who had argued with his flatmates minutes earlier, prompting them to flee in terror in a car as he smashed one of its windows. The killer then beheaded two cats, ranting as he did so, before targeting Mrs Silva......

Mr Salvadore had ambitions to become a cage fighter, but had gone off the rails and was known locally for dealing drugs.

Another acquaintance of Mr Salvadore said: “He was having problems at work. He's just been sacked. He'd had problems with drink and drugs in the past.”

The more details emerge, the more it becomes obvious that Salvadore's religious beliefs, whatever they are, had nothing to do with his motives for carrying out this horrendous murder.

It is ironic that there are post here about immigrants and sending them back from whence they came; ironic as the victim, Palmira Silva, was herself an Italian immigrant!

Mrs Silva, may you rest in peace. From all reports you were a lovely, caring person and I am sure you would be horrified that your death has provided the ignorant with the excuse to try and spread yet more hate.

Edited September 6, 2014 by 7by7

[soihok]

I feel as a Black Man that this was a hate crime fact very much hate. If you kill you have to hate. Many Farangs from England I do not like because they are cowards but you do not cut off their heads

Really Harry, you should know better?

Lets read into this an obvious severe mental disorder, he may well have been off his head on drugs (reading the reports on his background).

If you are 8 years old Harry I can understand your comments based on your perception, but somehow I think you maybe at least 12, so no excuse - silly boy.

In the words of fellow V8 ........... oh gawd

Edited September 6, 2014 by soihok

[soihok]

.....or Cats heads Harry....

[Ulysses G.]

The more details emerge, the more it becomes obvious that Salvadore's religious beliefs, whatever they are, had nothing to do with his motives for carrying out this horrendous murder.

Come on. He may indeed be a lunatic - a lot of Islamic radicals are - but if he is indeed a Muslim convert, it is pretty obvious why he is going around beheading infidels. He also tried to attack a couple that got away.

Details have begun to emerge about the man arrested for the murder of a great grandmother beheaded in her back garden.

He was named locally as Nicholas Salvadore, a 25-year-old would-be cage fighter who is believed to be a Muslim convert, who had been living a few doors from 82-year-old Palmira Silva.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/woman-beheaded-first-picture-of-muslim-convert-nicknamed-fat-nick-suspected-of-murdering-82yearold-9714057.html

[transam]

The more details emerge, the more it becomes obvious that Salvadore's religious beliefs, whatever they are, had nothing to do with his motives for carrying out this horrendous murder.

Come on. He may indeed be a lunatic - a lot of Islamic radicals are - but if he is indeed a Muslim convert, it is pretty obvious why he is going around beheading infidels. He also tried to attack a couple that got away.

Details have begun to emerge about the man arrested for the murder of a great grandmother beheaded in her back garden.

He was named locally as Nicholas Salvadore, a 25-year-old would-be cage fighter who is believed to be a Muslim convert, who had been living a few doors from 82-year-old Palmira Silva.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/woman-beheaded-first-picture-of-muslim-convert-nicknamed-fat-nick-suspected-of-murdering-82yearold-9714057.html

Wasting your time talking to 7x7, this religion is noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo problem to other folk in his eyes, why, perhaps 7x7 is a lawyer for them. Of course I don't know but after reading a zillion of his posts on the subject I have my suspicions..........

[soihok]

I certainly think that he was influenced by the recent beheading of the unfortunate journalists reported by the press.

End of the day, total crack pot nutter who may have thought being a muslim could have changed his life , well I guess it did. Hang the waster High.

[7by7]

Oh dear, Ulysses G and Transam.

You really are desperate to blame this on Islam, aren't you.

Despite all the evidence, particularly that from those who know him, that his religion is totally irrelevant!

Muslims are just as likely to go nuts and commit violent crimes like this as followers any other religion or none; especially, if as appears to be the case here, they are alcoholic drug addicts!

How about this?

Do you reckon he must have been a Muslim fundamentalist carrying out the will of Allah, too?

Edited September 6, 2014 by 7by7