Woman beheaded in London attack

[7by7]

If this murder had been motivated by Salvadore being a Muslim jihadist then surely, like the murders of Lee Rigby, he would have been shouting out his message.

Strange that none of the eye witnesses nor the police have reported him making any such declarations; before, during or after the whole event; except it's not strange because he didn't.

If he is trying to get some perverted Islamic fundamentalist jihad message across, he isn't doing a very good job of it!

Doubtless the real reasons for his committing this horrendous crime will come out at his trial; but I am still going with the drug fuelled rampage as the most likely.

[nidieunimaitre]

wrong thread, sorry

Edited September 6, 2014 by nidieunimaitre

[dexterm]

If this site is based in UK it should be prosecuted for wantonly stirring racial/religionist hatred.

You mean that they should go to jail for honest reporting? That sounds like sharia law.

Totally dishonest reporting so far..just empty weasel worded innuendo and hearsay, just like all your posts. Any chance you can get to jump on the Muslim bashing bandwagon.

[dexterm]

wrong thread, sorry

Totally agree. The Islamophobics can by all means spew their hatred on the Britain jihadi thread. But its disgraceful that they can hijack this thread with their venom.

[arjunadawn]

If this site is based in UK it should be prosecuted for wantonly stirring racial/religionist hatred.

You mean that they should go to jail for honest reporting? That sounds like sharia law.

IMO there is a lot of intelligent debate mixed in with idle talk here. Irrespective of whether this turns out to be related to islam the point is valid because it reflects ideas that are forming in peoples minds, valid or not. That is worthy of dialogue.

[arjunadawn]

Ok, so if this murder was terrorism, there has to be a statement or "message" to say "Look out infidels" or "look out moderate Muslims". We do not have this.

Negative. Increasingly there will not be a "message" with each act because with the passing of time it is widely known now that the act is the message. Over the past few years jihadi groups have labored to devolve authority into smaller and smaller cells, down to the individual. It is, IMO, a beehive mentality. Each contributes to the underlying goal and the traditional nature of public claims of who did it, and why, or increasingly irrelevant. This is the strategic aim of some pretty sophisticated thinkers in jihadi circles. This is the ultimate (Lernaean) Hydra.

This movement is evident in Inspire mags.

http://jihadology.net/category/inspire-magazine/

[nidieunimaitre]

I do not like the muslim religion, since I do not like any religion.

And the more a religion is backward, the more I dislike it, so I dislike muslims more than European christians, the American christians are about halfway.

But I feel very uncomfortable in the company of most anti muslim posters.

[MartinL]

The Evening Standard's weasel words "is believed to be" are only surpassed by your non sequitur "it's pretty obvious that". This whole thread about a psychopath's murder has been allowed to turn into a Muslim hatefest by the usual culprits. If this site is based in UK it should be prosecuted for wantonly stirring racial/religionist hatred.

Daily Telegraph Online, 6/9/2014 - ".... Dave Jensen, 52, a builder who once employed Mr Salvadore as a labourer, said he had converted to Islam five years ago .... Mr. Jensen said: "Nick told me in passing he'd turned to Islam, about five years ago .... "

Daily Mail Online, 6/9/2014 - " .... Another friend said: ‘He is from a Muslim background but he is not a good Muslim – he gambles, plays roulette ...."

[7by7]

The increasingly desperate attempts by those who wish to blame this poor woman's horrendous murder on Salvadore's religion, whatever that actually may be, and who are ignoring the masses of evidence from eyewitnesses, the police and those who know him which shows that to be a lie, is getting more and more sickening.

Rest in peace, Palmira Silva. As a Catholic I am sure you know Luke 23:24; "Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”"

If only I could somehow believe that those words applied to certain members here; but I can't

[dexterm]

If this site is based in UK it should be prosecuted for wantonly stirring racial/religionist hatred.

You mean that they should go to jail for honest reporting? That sounds like sharia law.

IMO there is a lot of intelligent debate mixed in with idle talk here. Irrespective of whether this turns out to be related to islam the point is valid because it reflects ideas that are forming in peoples minds, valid or not. That is worthy of dialogue.

Maybe in the correct thread it is. The murder of an old lady by a psychopath has been hijacked by the usual Islamophobic suspects

Fascism is alive and well and living on this site...

"Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the bitch that bore him is in heat again"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Resistible_Rise_of_Arturo_Ui

Edited September 6, 2014 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

The increasingly desperate attempts by those who wish to blame this poor woman's horrendous murder on Salvadore's religion, whatever that actually may be, and who are ignoring the masses of evidence from eyewitnesses, the police and those who know him which shows that to be a lie, is getting more and more sickening.

"Masses of evidence". In other words, the offhand opinions of a couple of people who knew him, who also admitted that he had converted to Islam recently. The Spinmeister strikes again.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory posts and replies deleted. Please tone down the rhetoric.

[7by7]

The increasingly desperate attempts by those who wish to blame this poor woman's horrendous murder on Salvadore's religion, whatever that actually may be, and who are ignoring the masses of evidence from eyewitnesses, the police and those who know him which shows that to be a lie, is getting more and more sickening.

"Masses of evidence". In other words, the offhand opinions of a couple of people who knew him, who also admitted that he had converted to Islam recently. The Spinmeister strikes again.

Yet again, Ulysses G, you have perfectly proven my point for me.

Yet again you ignore everything which conflicts with your prejudice.

[MAJIC]

In the Café today for a bite to eat, read the cafes paper, standard fare, "The Sun " the most sold , and a quality Newspaper in the U.K.

The Sun put this story around page 5 , with pictures of Police cars turning a road into a police car park, but no pictures of the suspect.

No real discreption of the suspect, only that he started to grow a beard.

I can trust the " Sun " newspaper, the message was , no need to panic.

The " Sun " will tell you when to panic, " Gottacha " ( Gaucho )

They had a picture of the Italian Gradmama .

"and a quality Newspaper in the U.K"

And you think the Sun is a quality newspaper?

[arjunadawn]

Maybe in the correct thread it is. The murder of an old lady by a psychopath has been hijacked by the usual Islamophobic suspects

Fascism is alive and well and living on this site...

"Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the bitch that bore him is in heat again"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Resistible_Rise_of_Arturo_Ui

Really clever link. Brother, not everyone is rabid here. I think it is a bit unfair to suggest TV folks hijacked anything. The entire world, indeed the UK, is on the edge of their seat regarding real and perceived fears of jihad (this suggests just how effective the jihad has become). The information associating this act with islam was not generated here on this thread. It came from the news services and when I read the reports it is only mentioned incidentally, so the media are not sensationalizing it; our collective concern sensationalizes this. You can comment on that, and condemn it, but at least recognize why folks have fear- at least a lot of us operate from a combination of genuine fear and concern.

[Seastallion]

Ok, so if this murder was terrorism, there has to be a statement or "message" to say "Look out infidels" or "look out moderate Muslims". We do not have this.

Negative. Increasingly there will not be a "message" with each act because with the passing of time it is widely known now that the act is the message. Over the past few years jihadi groups have labored to devolve authority into smaller and smaller cells, down to the individual. It is, IMO, a beehive mentality. Each contributes to the underlying goal and the traditional nature of public claims of who did it, and why, or increasingly irrelevant. This is the strategic aim of some pretty sophisticated thinkers in jihadi circles. This is the ultimate (Lernaean) Hydra.

This movement is evident in Inspire mags.

http://jihadology.net/category/inspire-magazine/

" This is the strategic aim of some pretty sophisticated thinkers in jihadi circles. "

That's either speculation or an insider's claim if I ever read one. Care to offer supporting evidence? It's a very bold claim.

[7by7]

In the Café today for a bite to eat, read the cafes paper, standard fare, "The Sun " the most sold , and a quality Newspaper in the U.K.

The Sun put this story around page 5 , with pictures of Police cars turning a road into a police car park, but no pictures of the suspect.

No real discreption of the suspect, only that he started to grow a beard.

I can trust the " Sun " newspaper, the message was , no need to panic.

The " Sun " will tell you when to panic, " Gottacha " ( Gaucho )

They had a picture of the Italian Gradmama .

"and a quality Newspaper in the U.K"

And you think the Sun is a quality newspaper?

Edmonton Woman Beheaded: 'Sun Spreads Fear with Islamophobic Front Page'

Very obvious where certain members here get their opinions from!

Note, though, that they put Muslim Convert in inverted commas; as if the average Sun reader would know what doing that means!

Very reminiscent of their infamous Hillsborough front page.

Edited September 6, 2014 by 7by7

[F430murci]

Sounds like a loser Nigerian POS for sure.

--------

"The accused was called 'Fat Nick' by his friends and has been identified as a loner who had left his home 11 years ago.

"Nicholas is an only child and his parents brought him here from Nigeria. But when he was about 13 or 14 he left home. The truth is, he has never felt loved. He has been unlucky all his life.He was always down, he never smiled, he never had any money. He was a known failure," Daily Mail quoted Nicholas' friend as saying in its last updated report."

--------

So this Nigerian loser converts to Islam, gets high and whacks a couple of heads off living things. Why behead? He could have just stabbed repeatedly. The act of beheading has some significance here and use of drugs or alcohol could have merely provided him the courage to commit a beheading.

I sat through a deposition of an imigrant from Sierre Leon this past week and left thinking what the heck is US or other countries doing by letting some of these people in. Does it ever work out well for US or other countries?

Okay, lets change the headline to loser Nigerian imigrant with no job skills becomes frustrated, considers Islam, gets high, whacks a couple of heads off and causes fear in a neighborhood. Same, same to me.

Edited September 6, 2014 by F430murci

[dexterm]

Maybe in the correct thread it is. The murder of an old lady by a psychopath has been hijacked by the usual Islamophobic suspects

Fascism is alive and well and living on this site...

"Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the bitch that bore him is in heat again"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Resistible_Rise_of_Arturo_Ui

so the media are not sensationalizing it; our collective concern sensationalizes this. You can comment on that, and condemn it, but at least recognize why folks have fear- at least a lot of us operate from a combination of genuine fear and concern.

The Evening Standard (along with the very popular Murdoch rag The Sun...Murdoch who this week had discussions with UKIP's Farage...hidden agenda here perhaps.) played the religion card in their headline.

Woman beheaded: 'Muslim convert' known as Fat Nick suspected of slaughtering grandmother pictured for first time

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/woman-beheaded-first-picture-of-muslim-convert-nicknamed-fat-nick-suspected-of-murdering-82yearold-9714057.html

I think it is naive to think that Islamophobes don't thrive on this type of sensationalist bandwagon story.

By all means establish facts not hearsay and the unlikely weasel words of a builder (or the journalist?) "he turned to Islam 5 years ago" sounds like a spot of reporter paraphrasing creeping in there...not the type of language a builder uses.

Otherwise vent your concerns in the appropriate thread.

Edited September 6, 2014 by dexterm

[transam]

So 7x7, the head chopping and murder of Lee Rigby was done by two Muslim converts. Whats your theory or excuse for these guys not natives of the UK in relation to this similar act.. ?

[Steely Dan]

RIP Ms Silva.

The report makes it clear that nobody yet knows if he is a Muslim or not, and also makes it clear that the motive is unknown. But people will jump to conclusions and start mouthing off.

Some residents of the area, in Edmonton, north London, claimed last night that the suspect was a local man who had converted to Islam last year, but those claims could not be verified. Detectives said they had ruled out terrorism as a motive for the killing.

Stick to the facts.

they had ruled out terrorism as a motive for the killing.>

Of course they did. The British police are contaminated with PC, IMO. The fix was probably in as soon as the word Muslim was heard in connection with him.

Thank God they ruled out terrorism so the UK populace can again sleep soundly in their beds, after all there is nothing terrifying about the thought of a random stranger severing your head with a foot long machete whilst you are busy pottering about tending your perennials (sark off).

[arjunadawn]

Negative. Increasingly there will not be a "message" with each act because with the passing of time it is widely known now that the act is the message. Over the past few years jihadi groups have labored to devolve authority into smaller and smaller cells, down to the individual. It is, IMO, a beehive mentality. Each contributes to the underlying goal and the traditional nature of public claims of who did it, and why, or increasingly irrelevant. This is the strategic aim of some pretty sophisticated thinkers in jihadi circles. This is the ultimate (Lernaean) Hydra.

This movement is evident in Inspire mags.

http://jihadology.net/category/inspire-magazine/

" This is the strategic aim of some pretty sophisticated thinkers in jihadi circles. "

That's either speculation or an insider's claim if I ever read one. Care to offer supporting evidence? It's a very bold claim.

This is hardly a bold claim. Jihad-al-fardi is a developing strategy for al queda and other ancillary jihadis. In essence, recognizing the need for decentralization they formulated multimedia and E strategies to target distant and disparate jihadis to promote islamic expansion without centralized guidance. This strategy, if effective, does describe what I stated above. This is a valid observation regarding jihadi evolution in asymmetrical warfare. Islamic expansion will ultimately have dubious results if it continues either the failed path of al queda or arrayed in battle full on with the west. This concept reflects sophisticated tactical planning, IMO. This many-headed beast will be hard to battle.

Call to individual jihad

The articles inside Inspire were used to incite rage against non-believers and the West. The Recruiting pitch was based on the conspiracy theories and through the ideology of defensive jihad. The periodical explained what to expect in jihad and the theory of open front jihad and individual jihad. The arguments presented explained the difficulty of an open front engagement with American forces and the difficulty of traveling overseas to conduct jihad. Therefore, the solution for Muslims was individual obligatory (fard’ayn) jihad to attack while the Islamic nation was strategically weak. “pontatenous [sic] operations performed by individuals and cells here and there over the whole world, without connections between them, have put the local and international intelligence apparatus in a state of confusion, as arresting the members of aborted cells does not influence the operational activities of others who are not connected with them.”^[23]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inspire_%28magazine%29

http://www.upenn.edu/pennpress/book/14390.html

[arjunadawn]

so the media are not sensationalizing it; our collective concern sensationalizes this. You can comment on that, and condemn it, but at least recognize why folks have fear- at least a lot of us operate from a combination of genuine fear and concern.

The Evening Standard played the religion card in their headline.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/woman-beheaded-first-picture-of-muslim-convert-nicknamed-fat-nick-suspected-of-murdering-82yearold-9714057.html

Do you think including 'muslim convert' had added value over "Woman beheaded: Local known as Fat Nick..." I don't think so. I think a Sat Night Headline of a beheading was all that was needed to sell papers; this is not made more horrific by "muslim convert." It was inserted because it probably enhanced the byline a bit, sure, but because it was relevant to the readers as people are afraid. They want to know what is going on with islamic jihad. As the anniversary of 9/11 approaches people are concerned. I cant see how the could avoid this byline if validly stated by neighbors.

[7by7]

So this Nigerian loser converts to Islam, gets high and whacks a couple of heads off living things. Why behead? He could have just stabbed repeatedly. The act of beheading has some significance here and use of drugs or alcohol could have merely provided him the courage to commit a beheading.

From reading all the reports:-

This person gets high, has an argument with his flatmates and picks up a machete and starts swinging it around in anger and/or frustration.

His flatmates flee and he follows them out into the street, but they get in a car and drive away.

In his anger and/or frustration he rages about him, swinging the machete at anything which comes near; a rose bush, two cats and finally poor Mrs. Silva.

A machete is not a stabbing instrument, but a cutting and slashing one.

If he did this due to his possible conversion to Islam, what is the significance of the rose bush and the cats?

What has even the most radical and extreme Islamic jihadist got against them.

Is there anything in the Koran, Hadiths or any other Islamic teaching to say that the faithful should kill roses and cats?

[arjunadawn]

Maybe in the correct thread it is. The murder of an old lady by a psychopath has been hijacked by the usual Islamophobic suspects

Fascism is alive and well and living on this site...

"Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the bitch that bore him is in heat again"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Resistible_Rise_of_Arturo_Ui

so the media are not sensationalizing it; our collective concern sensationalizes this. You can comment on that, and condemn it, but at least recognize why folks have fear- at least a lot of us operate from a combination of genuine fear and concern.

The Evening Standard (along with the very popular Murdoch rag The Sun...Murdoch who this week had discussions with UKIP's Farage...hidden agenda here perhaps.) played the religion card in their headline.

Woman beheaded: 'Muslim convert' known as Fat Nick suspected of slaughtering grandmother pictured for first time

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/woman-beheaded-first-picture-of-muslim-convert-nicknamed-fat-nick-suspected-of-murdering-82yearold-9714057.html

I think it is naive to think that Islamophobes don't thrive on this type of sensationalist bandwagon story.

By all means establish facts not hearsay and the unlikely weasel words of a builder (or the journalist?) "he turned to Islam 5 years ago" sounds like a spot of reporter paraphrasing creeping in there...not the type of language a builder uses.

Otherwise vent your concerns in the appropriate thread.

I am not venting. I think through the fog of your venting you have a point that can be noted. Perhaps the media capitalized on the byline to enhance sales. But this still speaks to the underlying point that people are hungry for this type of info due to fear and uncertainty; if you are correct, something drives the train in a capitalist newspaper- the people want to know! Why? Why, in UK where the arms have been open to so many, for so long, do people now have a need to consume knowledge of jihad? Why is this?

[transam]

So this Nigerian loser converts to Islam, gets high and whacks a couple of heads off living things. Why behead? He could have just stabbed repeatedly. The act of beheading has some significance here and use of drugs or alcohol could have merely provided him the courage to commit a beheading.

From reading all the reports:-

This person gets high, has an argument with his flatmates and picks up a machete and starts swinging it around in anger and/or frustration.

His flatmates flee and he follows them out into the street, but they get in a car and drive away.

In his anger and/or frustration he rages about him, swinging the machete at anything which comes near; a rose bush, two cats and finally poor Mrs. Silva.

A machete is not a stabbing instrument, but a cutting and slashing one.

If he did this due to his possible conversion to Islam, what is the significance of the rose bush and the cats?

What has even the most radical and extreme Islamic jihadist got against them.

Is there anything in the Koran, Hadiths or any other Islamic teaching to say that the faithful should kill roses and cats?

Can't believe you wrote that.........

[dexterm]

So 7x7, the head chopping and murder of Lee Rigby was done by two Muslim converts. Whats your theory or excuse for these guys not natives of the UK in relation to this similar act.. ?

So what's your point?

Seem totally dissimilar to me. Those nutjob psychopaths had a clear political agenda and they announced it.

This victim is just a little old lady murdered wantonly after the guy had practiced on a cat..get real.

[7by7]

So 7x7, the head chopping and murder of Lee Rigby was done by two Muslim converts. Whats your theory or excuse for these guys not natives of the UK in relation to this similar act.. ?

My comments at the time of Lee Rigby's murder made it clear that I did not make any attempt to justify the unjustifiable murder of Lee Rigby.

Nor did I make any attempt to excuse the inexcusable actions of his murderers.

That you have chosen to ignore this, yet again, and, yet again, attempt to show that I have done, or would ever do, so merely shows how desperate you are in your pitiful attempts to discredit all who do not hold with your hate filled views.

Grow up, get out of the playground and try some proper debate for a change; if you are capable of it.

[dexterm]

Maybe in the correct thread it is. The murder of an old lady by a psychopath has been hijacked by the usual Islamophobic suspects

Fascism is alive and well and living on this site...

"Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the bitch that bore him is in heat again"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Resistible_Rise_of_Arturo_Ui

so the media are not sensationalizing it; our collective concern sensationalizes this. You can comment on that, and condemn it, but at least recognize why folks have fear- at least a lot of us operate from a combination of genuine fear and concern.

The Evening Standard (along with the very popular Murdoch rag The Sun...Murdoch who this week had discussions with UKIP's Farage...hidden agenda here perhaps.) played the religion card in their headline.

Woman beheaded: 'Muslim convert' known as Fat Nick suspected of slaughtering grandmother pictured for first time

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/woman-beheaded-first-picture-of-muslim-convert-nicknamed-fat-nick-suspected-of-murdering-82yearold-9714057.html

I think it is naive to think that Islamophobes don't thrive on this type of sensationalist bandwagon story.

By all means establish facts not hearsay and the unlikely weasel words of a builder (or the journalist?) "he turned to Islam 5 years ago" sounds like a spot of reporter paraphrasing creeping in there...not the type of language a builder uses.

Otherwise vent your concerns in the appropriate thread.

I am not venting. I think through the fog of your venting you have a point that can be noted. Perhaps the media capitalized on the byline to enhance sales. But this still speaks to the underlying point that people are hungry for this type of info due to fear and uncertainty; if you are correct, something drives the train in a capitalist newspaper- the people want to know! Why? Why, in UK where the arms have been open to so many, for so long, do people now have a need to consume knowledge of jihad? Why is this?

People like Murdoch (owner of the Sun and Fox News) can win elections for governments around the world. He treats people like mushrooms..feed em shit and keep them in the dark.

Howard with the help of Murdoch's The Australian newspaper did it in Australia stirring up fears of boat people refugees.

Fox News does it in US creating hysteria about border control.

People shouldn't believe everything they read in the newspapers, but unfortunately they do,

Think for yourself. Open your eyes and mind.

Edited September 6, 2014 by dexterm

[dexterm]

The message of this brutal murder?

Drink and drugs can drive you crazy; especially in excess and when mixed.

Another message?

There are sick people on this board who will find any excuse to advance their prejudice; even the tragic murder of an old lady by a drink and drug fuelled mad man.

But you readily dismiss a religious link as impossible.......... .............

eeeeeeeeer, a Muslim convert just happens to cut the head off an old farang lady............

In your wannabe fantasy you seem to have already established a direct link to the Quran.