Land Ownership On Samui Being Checked

[george]

Land ownership on Samui being checked

SURAT THANI:-- Land ownership on Samui and Pha Ngan islands is to be scrutinised following complaints of encroachment onto forest reserve land and other illegal ownership.

Surat Thani Governor Wichit Wichaisan said yesterday he had assigned his deputy Thawatchai Therdphaothati to take charge of the issue and have officials thoroughly check all Samui land-ownership deals, especially sites near mountains and hillsides.

Caretaker Natural Resources and Environment Minister Yongyuth Tiyapairat, meanwhile, said those involved in the alleged land encroachment on Samui had played golf with national politicians and that many local officials were too afraid to take action.

Yongyuth said a foreign-owned company's ad to sell land in the Khao Dang area led to suspicions the land might have been obtained illegally.

Local authorities, however, were unable to solve Samui land issues because whenever they probed ownership they faced obstruction by influential groups, he said.

Yongyuth said he and other senior officials would go tomorrow to Samui and sleep in tents on land whose ownership status was unclear to check first hand whether the ownership was legal.

He said he ordered an investigation last August and even had the Forestry Department director-general transfer an official, but this did not seem to have much impact.

He said he would ensure that if any of his ministerial officials were involved they would be fired.

"I'll solve this problem. And my actions aren't motivated by any political agenda," he said.

Surat Thani land officer Piatoon Lertkrai said the office had begun checking owners of land title deeds - especially foreigners - in May and would soon complete the process. If any land was found to have been obtained illegally, it would be seized.

The Nation's own checks on Samui land title deeds found that many Bangkok businessmen had recently obtained ownership and some land was held by foreigners for tourism-related businesses.

As many as 325 business registrations - 292 by companies owned by foreign investors and 33 by Thai investors - were done for estate development, resorts and land trading on Samui and Pha Ngan.

On Samui alone, there are 259 foreign-owned companies and 21 owned by Thai investors.

Meanwhile, Samui Island district chief Decha Kangsanan yesterday morning led nearly 500 people wearing yellow shirts with the symbol of the 60th anniversary of His Majesty the King's accession to the throne on a protest walk against land encroachers.

-- The Nation 2006-07-13

[leemond]

Interesting, although I think I have more chance of growing a second head than these people sleeping in tents on private land.

[Jai Dee]

Land put up for sale on Samui Island will be taken back by the state if it is obtained illegally

Caretaker Natural Resource and Environment Minister Youngyuth Tiyapairat (ยงยุทธ ติยะไพรัช) vows to seize a plot of land on Samui Island in Surat Thani from a private firm if found the land ownership document was obtained illegally.

Samui Property Solution Co. Ltd. recently put up for sale the land near Khao Daang (เขาด่าง) on this island resort. The land, however, was suspected to be part of a forest reserve.

Mr. Youngyuth said the ministry will check the land certificates on July 15. If the land was acquired legally but some parts of it are in the forest or are watersheds, the ministry will ask the owner to set aside those parts for conservation purposes, he said. But if the land document was illegally issued, the land would be taken back by the state, Mr. Yongyuth said.

He said the ministry is surveying the land on Samui Island to see which belongs to private owners and which is in forest reserves.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 13 July 2006

[highdiver]

SAMUI LAND SCAM

1. find a trusting farrang. who is very greedy. and show him a nice land for an outragous price...

make sure that the agent, thai friend, or any one introducing you will explain that you are in a hurry to sell the land and that he can get it for a bargin price. better yet explain that this land is not yet on the market but once it goes out it will be sold in short time and that the farrnag can beat everyone to this dream property.

2.Tell him that this land does not have any papers but its been in your family for years. and that every one on the island knows that this land belongs to you.

3.with the assitance of a friendly land officer make up some forged papers that the land is going to be legalised....

4. tell the buyer that even though his lawyer checked. the lawyer is not from Samui and he does not know about the "special"status of the land. and that the govermant promissed your family to get all the rights on the land.

5. the friendly officer will assure him there is nothing to worry about.

6. take the farrang out to Nathon and show him that you are shaking hands with the govermant officials and convince him that you are a well known respected member of Samui.

7. Sell the land to the Farrang using faurged documents. or no documents at all.

8. buy a new car and show off to all your Thai friends. who will be so jelous they will call up the govermant and complain about the..... farrang!!

9. local govermant does not want problems and try and hush the story.

10. build a big new house and buy your wife a new car and make sure that all the people in Samui see you shopping around in Lotus. make sure to wear your dimond plated new Rolex.... now that will get the thai to realy complaining...

11. govermant officials come in from Suratthani and reclaim the land and press charges against the farrang. at this time you will need to go urgently to visit your "sick" relative in changmai. and you will need to stay there for about 3 months.

12. the Farrang is advised by the lawyer that he can sue you in court but it will take a long time and that the court allways belives the Thai and that sometimes Thai people get realy offended when the are taken to court and that to save face they will need to shoot the farrang.

13. the farrang decides to bail out of Samui before he gets shot and you can go on spending your money and showing off your wealth to your thai friends.

14 You run out of money and can start the whole deal again.

Good luck and dont forget to tell all your buddies about this new get rich program. after all there is allways new farrangs coming to Samui.

[Aitit]

SAMUI LAND SCAM

1. find a trusting farrang. who is very greedy. and show him a nice land for an outragous price...

make sure that the agent, thai friend, or any one introducing you will explain that you are in a hurry to sell the land and that he can get it for a bargin price. better yet explain that this land is not yet on the market but once it goes out it will be sold in short time and that the farrnag can beat everyone to this dream property.

2.Tell him that this land does not have any papers but its been in your family for years. and that every one on the island knows that this land belongs to you.

3.with the assitance of a friendly land officer make up some forged papers that the land is going to be legalised....

4. tell the buyer that even though his lawyer checked. the lawyer is not from Samui and he does not know about the "special"status of the land. and that the govermant promissed your family to get all the rights on the land.

5. the friendly officer will assure him there is nothing to worry about.

6. take the farrang out to Nathon and show him that you are shaking hands with the govermant officials and convince him that you are a well known respected member of Samui.

7. Sell the land to the Farrang using faurged documents. or no documents at all.

8. buy a new car and show off to all your Thai friends. who will be so jelous they will call up the govermant and complain about the..... farrang!!

9. local govermant does not want problems and try and hush the story.

10. build a big new house and buy your wife a new car and make sure that all the people in Samui see you shopping around in Lotus. make sure to wear your dimond plated new Rolex.... now that will get the thai to realy complaining...

11. govermant officials come in from Suratthani and reclaim the land and press charges against the farrang. at this time you will need to go urgently to visit your "sick" relative in changmai. and you will need to stay there for about 3 months.

12. the Farrang is advised by the lawyer that he can sue you in court but it will take a long time and that the court allways belives the Thai and that sometimes Thai people get realy offended when the are taken to court and that to save face they will need to shoot the farrang.

13. the farrang decides to bail out of Samui before he gets shot and you can go on spending your money and showing off your wealth to your thai friends.

14 You run out of money and can start the whole deal again.

Good luck and dont forget to tell all your buddies about this new get rich program. after all there is allways new farrangs coming to Samui.

to Samui

, but that's the way it works, unfortunately

[SamuiJens]

Ain't that the Truth, THE AWFUL TRUTH-which states BUYER BEWARE- buying land on Samui is best left too the people with the RIGHT connections!

[Rooo]

Interesting, although I think I have more chance of growing a second head than these people sleeping in tents on private land.

Well you better have a good look in the mirrior lol. Have you seen all the campers & the helicopters there?

[Rooo]

From Bangkok Post Today.............................

ENCROACHMENT / SAMUI DEVELOPMENT

Land scandal officials face probes

SUPAPHONG CHAOLAEN

Surat Thani _ Officials thought to have been involved in The Peak land scandal on Koh Samui have been recommended for disciplinary punishment. Caretaker Natural Resources and Environment Minister Yongyuth Tiyapairat said yesterday that he has asked the Land Department to transfer Suwat Vichaidit, a former Surat Thani land official, and investigate him for any wrongdoing.

Mr Suwat faced a lightning transfer to an inactive post at the department yesterday.

The minister also sought the Interior Ministry's cooperation to order a disciplinary inquiry against former Samui district chief Theerayuth Iemtrakul.

Mr Suwat, a land official in Samut Sakhon's Ban Phaeo district before the transfer, formerly worked in the Samui land office. He was accused of issuing land documents on Koh Samui resulting in the encroachment onto land by developers.

Mr Theerayuth was Samui district chief before being promoted to assistant provincial chief of Surat Thani. The environment ministry felt he neglected his duty, making encroachment possible.

Mr Yongyuth said his ministry will press charges today against Suthep Wangdan, The Peak project operator, over false claims about the ownership status of the resort's land.

The transfer came after Mr Yongyuth inspected Koh Samui and found massive encroachment of forest land on the island. A survey found that over 1,700 rai out of 6,900 rai of forest area on the island had been cleared, and some of the encroached areas had been turned into a land development project.

The inspection followed an uproar over an advertisement by The Peak property project, on a website and in a property trading guide, placed by foreign firm Samui Property Solutions.

The project, which spans 514 rai on Koh Samui's Kao Dang mountain, sells land for eight million baht a rai, amounting to more than 4.1 billion baht.

The project developer had named two Thai companies, Great Hills International and Ratchathani, which are subsidiaries of Bangkok-based Piyavate Hospital Group, as owners of the land.

An inquiry was being conducted to see if the two firms were owned by Thais.

A group of local residents yesterday submitted a complaint to the minister opposing the distribution of ownership documents on mountainous areas of the island.

They claimed investors had brought several fully-grown coconut trees onto the land to show it was being utilised and to claim ownership over the encroached plots on Kao Dang mountain.

[highdiver]

the lates updates from bangkok post.

DSI to examine Samui land development scamTwo Thai companies named as plot owners

By Supaphong Chaolan

The Department of Special Investigation (DSI) will be called in to examine the land scandal on Koh Samui, said caretaker Natural Resources and Environment Minister Yongyuth Tiyapairat yesterday. Mr Yongyuth said he would ask DSI experts to identify forest encroachers on the island. The DSI, under the Justice Ministry, deals with specialised and complicated investigations.

Mr Yongyuth earlier sought cooperation from the Land Department and Interior Ministry to probe officials who may have been negligent in their duty or played a role in illegal distribution of land ownership papers.

Former Surat Thani land official Suwat Vichaidit and former Samui district chief Theerayuth Iemtrakul are under scrutiny. Mr Suwat was transferred on Friday pending a disciplinary inquiry while Mr Theerayuth may face a disciplinary investigation as well.

Mr Theerayuth, now assistant provincial chief of Surat Thani, denied the allegation. He had no authority to issue land documents, a responsibility limited to the land office.

He was once asked to head a panel to examine the scandal, but his job was not finished. The property project at the centre of the land ownership scam is managed by The Peak. The project, which spans 514 rai on Koh Samui's Kao Dang mountain, sells land for eight million baht a rai, amounting to more than 4.1 billion baht.

The developer, working under The Peak property development project, said two companies, Great Hills International and Ratchathani, subsidiaries of Bangkok-based Piyavate Hospital Group, owned the plots.

Around 34,000 rai out of 150,000 rai of land on Koh Samui is in the process of being declared protected forest. Officials found parts of the land have been encroached on by poachers.

There are also reports of forest encroachment on the mainland of Surat Thani. The kamnan of tambon Klong Cha-un in Phanom district said he found forest encroachment by a businessman who wanted to grow rubber trees and palms.

In Phunphin district, a local influential figure began to secretly plant rubber trees on 200 rai of forest land.

Koh Samui, nearby Koh Phangnan and Koh Taen within Surat Thani, will be declared environmental protection zones. The declaration is in line with the 1992 Environmental Protection Act, said Usa Kiatchaipipat, director of urban environment and area planning at the Office of Natural Resources and Environmental Policy and Planning.

[Rooo]

The proverbial Sh.....t hit the fan.Keep watching lmao.The highflyers are coming down.

[John 1]

Even though my comment is not related to this thread, it would really worry me to get a formal warning if any discussion of moderation issues were discussed, where is the free speech. Or does criticism hurt.

[sbk]

Even though my comment is not related to this thread, it would really worry me to get a formal warning if any discussion of moderation issues were discussed, where is the free speech. Or does criticism hurt.

Read the forum rules

5) Discussion of moderation issues, actions or moderation policies concerning individual cases are not allowed in the forums. Such comments should be directed to a moderator or administrator, and not discussed on the forum.-

-

Keep at it and you will receive a warning.

Back to the topic at hand please

[sbk]

From the Bangkok Post a clear indication that the land checks and the arrests of various people (including Bandidos) are related

Three foreigners and a Thai former land official were arrested yesterday in police raids to shut down a syndicate allegedly issuing illegal land rights documents on Koh Samui. Peter Watkin Jones, 40, of Britain, Kim Lindegaard Neilsen, 36, of Denmark, and Pramual Somwong, a former Samui land official, were arrested in raids on the island.

A second Briton, Crispin John Grandvil Paton-Smith, 43, was arrested in Pattaya.

The three foreigners are charged with illegal assembly and extortion, while Mr Pramual was charged with malfeasance.

They are among seven suspects wanted by authorities for alleged involvement in the illegal issuance of land documents on the island in Surat Thani province.

Three others _ Peter Buch Rosenberg, 35, of Denmark; Pratheep Muangkaew, who runs an accounting firm on Koh Samui as well as being a prosecutor attached to the Labour Court in Bangkok; and Samroeng Buanak, a local influential figure _ remained at large.

The Koh Samui raids were conducted by teams of police and officials from the Department of Special Investigation (DSI), the Office of the Narcotics Control Board and the Anti-Money Laundering Office (AMLO).

The raids targeted luxury hilltop villas and business venues in four villages on the island.

DSI chief Pol Gen Sombat Amornvivat, assistant national police chief Pol Lt-Gen Chalor Chuwong and Police Region 8 chief Pol Lt-Gen Kamol Huayhongthong yesterday flew to Koh Samui to interrogate the suspects.

Pol Gen Sombat said the raids came after receiving information from the British, Danish and Swedish embassies that members of the Bandidos motorcycle gang in Thailand had colluded with a British mafia group to buy up extensive commercial interests on Koh Samui.

They allegedly ran many businesses on the island, including property developers, restaurants, entertainment and tourist enterprises, as fronts for unlawful activities.

The foreign suspects are believed to be members of the criminal organisation. It is not known if Mr Pramual is also a member.

Some Bandidos chapters have been accused of operating a trans-national crime network involved in drugs, extortion, human trafficking, weapons smuggling and money laundering.

Pol Gen Sombat said the motorcycle gang extorts money from local businesses on Koh Samui or uses drug revenues to take them over. They have also bribed local officials to issue illegal land ownership documents on public land.

Amlo will be asked to take legal measures against those involved in money laundering, said the DSI chief, adding seven cases of land encroachment on Koh Samui were being investigated by his department.

According to my husband, reading the Thai rath newspaper online, they also own businesses in Phangan, and Phuket besides just Samui.

There have been rumors of illegal land documents being issued in Phangan as well.

[LaoPo]

From the Bangkok Post a clear indication that the land checks and the arrests of various people (including Bandidos) are related

Three foreigners and a Thai former land official were arrested yesterday in police raids to shut down a syndicate allegedly issuing illegal land rights documents on Koh Samui. Peter Watkin Jones, 40, of Britain, Kim Lindegaard Neilsen, 36, of Denmark, and Pramual Somwong, a former Samui land official, were arrested in raids on the island.

A second Briton, Crispin John Grandvil Paton-Smith, 43, was arrested in Pattaya.

The three foreigners are charged with illegal assembly and extortion, while Mr Pramual was charged with malfeasance.

They are among seven suspects wanted by authorities for alleged involvement in the illegal issuance of land documents on the island in Surat Thani province.

Three others _ Peter Buch Rosenberg, 35, of Denmark; Pratheep Muangkaew, who runs an accounting firm on Koh Samui as well as being a prosecutor attached to the Labour Court in Bangkok; and Samroeng Buanak, a local influential figure _ remained at large.

The Koh Samui raids were conducted by teams of police and officials from the Department of Special Investigation (DSI), the Office of the Narcotics Control Board and the Anti-Money Laundering Office (AMLO).

The raids targeted luxury hilltop villas and business venues in four villages on the island.

DSI chief Pol Gen Sombat Amornvivat, assistant national police chief Pol Lt-Gen Chalor Chuwong and Police Region 8 chief Pol Lt-Gen Kamol Huayhongthong yesterday flew to Koh Samui to interrogate the suspects.

Pol Gen Sombat said the raids came after receiving information from the British, Danish and Swedish embassies that members of the Bandidos motorcycle gang in Thailand had colluded with a British mafia group to buy up extensive commercial interests on Koh Samui.

They allegedly ran many businesses on the island, including property developers, restaurants, entertainment and tourist enterprises, as fronts for unlawful activities.

The foreign suspects are believed to be members of the criminal organisation. It is not known if Mr Pramual is also a member.

Some Bandidos chapters have been accused of operating a trans-national crime network involved in drugs, extortion, human trafficking, weapons smuggling and money laundering.

Pol Gen Sombat said the motorcycle gang extorts money from local businesses on Koh Samui or uses drug revenues to take them over. They have also bribed local officials to issue illegal land ownership documents on public land.

Amlo will be asked to take legal measures against those involved in money laundering, said the DSI chief, adding seven cases of land encroachment on Koh Samui were being investigated by his department.

According to my husband, reading the Thai rath newspaper online, they also own businesses in Phangan, and Phuket besides just Samui.

There have been rumors of illegal land documents being issued in Phangan as well.

Good thing, the British, Danish and Swedish authorities warned the Thai.

The 'Bandidos' are infamous in Europe, like the 'Hells Angels' in Europe, especially also in The Netherlands; 4 gangmembers of the Hells Angels were brutally murdered, supposedly by their own members. Scary stuff they're in Thailand as well....

Years ago both 'gangs' were at WAR against each other and there were killings/murders in Scandinavia as well.

I'm not sure if it's related but in the past few months I got quite agressive sales-emails from luxury 'estate' salesgroups on Samui saying "if you don't buy" before such-and-such date, the prices were going up (25% or so), due to the 'enormous' rise in real estate prices and construction costs...

Phase I, II etc. were already 'sold out' in no-time...

LaoPo

[t.s]

Interesting, although I think I have more chance of growing a second head than these people sleeping in tents on private land.

3 words: Thaksin's Road Show

[Malice in Wonderland]

From Bangkok Post Today.............................

ENCROACHMENT / SAMUI DEVELOPMENT

Land scandal officials face probes

The project developer had named two Thai companies, Great Hills International and Ratchathani, which are subsidiaries of Bangkok-based Piyavate Hospital Group, as owners of the land.

An inquiry was being conducted to see if the two firms were owned by Thais.

It won't be much of an inquiry if "you know-who" or one of his pal's is involved...

One would think it remarkable that a second newsworthy story would come out of Samui so quickly and with such high profile...

Make a diversion over there.....

[Rooo]

Bangkok post today.... Business section..State urged to improve controls on land use in Thailand

KANANA KATHARANGSIPORN

The government should improve controls on land use rather than move to clamp down on foreign investment, according to the real estate company Knight Frank Chartered (Thailand). Foreign investors can buy land in Thailand by two means _ through a long-term lease or through setting up a company that is at least 51% owned by Thais.

Foreign land ownership, always a politically sensitive subject, has returned to the spotlight following allegations of forest encroachment and illegal foreign ownership on Koh Samui. Property value on the island has skyrocketed in recent years, spurred by a boom in luxury resorts and vacation homes.

But Phanom Kanjanathiemthao, managing director of Knight Frank Chartered, said authorities would do better to look at zoning and land use rules rather than seeking to curb foreign investment.

''It's very common for foreign investors to invest in Thai properties like this. You can't block them. It's legitimate. Freehold or leasehold plots have no difference because they will use the land,'' Mr Phanom said.

''Instead, the authorities should find ways to make land utilisation and zoning regulations stricter and more effective, so that you can control them.''

Mr Phanom said foreign investors were becoming confused since the government was a declared supporter of more foreign direct investment.

''The government has to make itself clear about this. What is the policy priority? Promote foreign direct investment and tourism or prohibit foreign investment in land?''

When foreign investors buy Thai properties or land, it spurs economic activity and creates jobs, he said. Real estate-related businesses such as construction, gardening, security, property management and maintenance benefit as well.

''Most foreign investors have high purchasing power and they really develop the land they bought into very good resorts or villas. But Thai landlords have limited funds to develop the way foreigners do,'' Mr Phanom said.

Currently, high-end villas on Samui are selling for up to 40 million baht to foreign buyers. The most attractive areas for foreigners are beachfront land on Chaweng and Lamai beaches and some areas on hills.

The most expensive land is 20 million baht per rai on Chaweng beach, followed by Koh Tao at around six million baht per rai, according to the Agency for Real Estate Affairs Co.

Mr Phanom said the current land encroachment on Samui was not different from what happened on Phuket a few years ago, but the activity on Samui has been on or near hills. The rising popularity of Samui and the consequent property boom has fuelled demand for land but good sites are scarce.

''If the government wants some land back, it could pass a special law to expropriate the land,'' he said.

A member of the National Human Rights Commission earlier this week accused local politicians, including members of the Thai Rak Thai party, of being involved in forest encroachment and land speculation on Samui.

Chaiyapan Praphasawat, a member of the commission's sub-panel on land, water and forest issues, said numerous complaints had been made by island residents about wealthy politicians encroaching on forest land for sale and development.

Corruption at the Lands Department had resulted in the issue of ownership documents for areas designated as public property, the panel said. One village official said more than half of the ownership papers on Samui were unlawfully issued.

..19/07/2006

[sbk]

There were helicopters flying over Koh Phangan about three days ago, just before the Bandidos story broke but after the original article came out.

I wonder if perhaps the flooding problems due to deforestation and blockage Samui had last rainy season may have something to do with this?

[Rooo]

SBK,the helicopters were inspecting various mountain site developments on Samui & in particular the peak.

Rest assured that last season's rain & flooding brought to the fore the misuse of land.A couple of months ago, they had surveyors here from Bangkok looking at putting dams in certain areas.Of what I understand is, their reports were not painting a pretty picture about land management on the island ( understatement).

[Rooo]

Bangkok post.......

firm to be sued for illegal land deals

Title deed on Samui issued unlawfully

SUPAPHONG CHAOLAN

A panel investigating the issuing of land documents on Koh Samui is preparing legal action against a company for alleged illegal acquisition of land on the tourist island. Sunthorn Watcharakuldirok, director of the Forestry Department's forest protection and suppression division, who heads the inquiry, said they had finished compiling documentary evidence relating to the occupation of a 96 rai block of land on Khao Duang Nok mountain.

There was evidence on the ground showing that the issuance of title deeds for the plot was illegal, he said.

Plans to take legal action against staff involved in issuing the land documents are also being drawn up.

The panel had handed its investigation report to caretaker Natural Resources and Environment Minister Yongyuth Tiyapairat.

A court order would be sought to revoke the land documents so the land could be returned to the state.

The investigation was ordered by Mr Yongyuth following an uproar over an advertisement for the sale of a 514-rai land plot by The Peak property project posted by a foreign firm.

The project developer was selling the land for eight million baht a rai, totalling more than 4.1 billion baht.

The probe report handed to Mr Yongyuth found that title had been unlawfully issued for 96 rai of land on Khao Duang Nok mountain because the Sor Khor 1 land rights document held by the firm was for only 26 rai, not 96. The Sor Khor 1 paper was needed to apply for the title deed. The issuance of a land document for the firm's second plot, of about 500 rai, was being investigated.

Mr Sunthorn said the panel would extend its investigation to look into the issuing of title deeds for ''several hundred rai of land'' on Lamai mountain that had been earmarked for development as a nine-hole golf course.

The panel's coordinating centre had been flooded with complaints that several forest and public land areas on the island had been encroached upon, he added.

Surat Thani provincial authorities yesterday met local leaders in Koh Samui and Koh Phangan districts to allay residents' fears that their land documents would be revoked as a result of the inquiry.

Provincial governor Vichit Vichaisarn gave an assurance that lawfully issued documents would be left untouched. Only areas suspected of part of public or forest land would be investigated, he said.

21/07/2006

[Malice in Wonderland]

Bangkok post.......

firm to be sued for illegal land deals

Title deed on Samui issued unlawfully

A court order would be sought to revoke the land documents so the land could be returned to the state.

The investigation was ordered by Mr Yongyuth following an uproar over an advertisement for the sale of a 514-rai land plot by The Peak property project posted by a foreign firm.

The project developer was selling the land for eight million baht a rai, totalling more than 4.1 billion baht.

The probe report handed to Mr Yongyuth found that title had been unlawfully issued for 96 rai of land on Khao Duang Nok mountain because the Sor Khor 1 land rights document held by the firm was for only 26 rai, not 96. The Sor Khor 1 paper was needed to apply for the title deed. The issuance of a land document for the firm's second plot, of about 500 rai, was being investigated.

Look at the s*** that comes your way when you turn down a much reduced offer from the PM's crew for the same site....

[nod]

Good morning. This subject has spurred me on to make my first post on this forum. Just in case people assume that because this is my first post, I have no experience of how things work over here, I should state that LOS has been my second home for 25 years. (No brownie points expected)

I would just like to make a point that seems to have been missed so far. There are going to be many innocent victims as a result of the dubious dealings of a few a-----les who have not given a ###### for the fate of the final individual plot buyer who has bought their plot in "good faith." Ok, so we all know that, but there seems to be a general view that if you are such a "victim" then you might as well roll over, give up and pack your bags to go home because the Thai govt. is going to take your land back off you.

So finally I get to my point! Don't forget that your demise is as the result of the actions of a bent officer of the Thai Govt; who has condoned the action of you being sold land that should never have been up for sale. The Govt. therefore has to take some responsibility for the action of its officers.

Therefore, assuming you have a legitimate "legal" and properly structured Thai Company or proper lease and a land title deed that has been stamped and signed by by an officer of the Thai Govt. then don't just give up. Though not an expert, I know this would cause embarassment in any International Court of Law. Have a chat with your Embassy etc. etc. Make these people responsible for not keeping their house in order and if you cannot, then embarrass them enough to seriously "go after" those responsible "( Land dealers, Govt. Officers etc.) Don't just give up.

This post is not offered up as a solution for the Developers or Land encroachers who I truly despise with a passion. It is more as something to think about for the victims of these boils on the backside of humanity.

Cheers!

[sbk]

The problem here is that people are buying property that should not have been sold in the first place: ie national park. Or are illegally modifying land that is public (ie modifying the beach).

If someone buys land that is national park what kind of compensation can they expect? From the property developer that bribed the corrupt land official to issue illegal land papers? From the corrupt land official that broke the law? I certainly wouldn't expect the Thai govt to recompense anyone as that wouldn't occur in the west either. I am afraid it is very much caveat emptor here. "Let the buyer beware".

Its too bad but people should not jump into something so big as a land purchase without serious research. Not just on the word of some property developer who is, after all, only out to make a buck, not provide someone with their "paradise home".

[Charma]

The problem here is that people are buying property that should not have been sold in the first place: ie national park. Or are illegally modifying land that is public (ie modifying the beach).

If someone buys land that is national park what kind of compensation can they expect? From the property developer that bribed the corrupt land official to issue illegal land papers? From the corrupt land official that broke the law? I certainly wouldn't expect the Thai govt to recompense anyone as that wouldn't occur in the west either. I am afraid it is very much caveat emptor here. "Let the buyer beware".

Its too bad but people should not jump into something so big as a land purchase without serious research. Not just on the word of some property developer who is, after all, only out to make a buck, not provide someone with their "paradise home".

IMO there would be a valid claim in most western countries if a fraud occurred as the result of a corrupt government officer acting in his official capacity (i.e. issuing false land titles). This concept of vacarious liability in common in most westren states. My wife also thinks that there would be a claim against the Thai government as long as the buyer was not trying to do anything illegal. An innocent buyer would not have a clue about the zoning of the land he was purchasing as he had been duped by a forged document produced by a land official. There may also be a claim against a legal advisors involved if they had failed to make diligent checks to protect the buyer. Yes, Thailand is different from the west, but other posters on this forum have succesfully recovered money through legal action in Thaialand and as nod pointed out, you should not just give up because everyone tells you it is too difficult!

The other point is, I have not yet heard from one single poster who has lost land or money as a result of any of the recent scares/inquires/clampdowns. If anyone out there knows of a factual case, maybe they should let us all know quickly.

[sbk]

I recall about two years ago (give or take a year) several farang lost their houses and land for building illegally on national park land. Somewhere above Chaweng I believe.

[Charma]

I recall about two years ago (give or take a year) several farang lost their houses and land for building illegally on national park land. Somewhere above Chaweng I believe.

I can believe that. I think if anyone has blatantly broken the law in this way, they deserve to lose it. The same would happen in the west. But I think that is different from being duped by a land official.

In relation to all the recent scares (the company purchase thing) it seems that all has happened so far is certain land offices refusing to complete transfers until they get more clarification and other land offices (that posters do not seem to want to name) allowing transfers if it is a small plot with one foreign shareholder.

In the event that land officals did find a company land purchase breached the rules, the reports posted on TV seemed to indicate that they would be given time to dispose of the land, rather than it being seized. But as I said, I have not yet read one post from anyone who has lost land or money as a result of the recent events.

If anyone has such knowledge, it would be really helpful to everyone for them to post about it. I have been informed that company land purchases have recently gone through the Samui office. But I am not sure what effect the latest turmoil may have had on the situation there.

[nod]

Many thanks to Charma for making me feel I am not alone in perceiving culpability on the part of the Thai Govt. in this matter. It should also be noted that, if your Thai company's legitimacy comes into question you do in fact have some previous Thai Govt. office approval to use as a form of precedence. In other words, in order that your land transfer was able to go through, your company will have had to have come under a certain amount of scrutiny and been approved by a Thai Govt. officer. Therefore, if it was ok then for its purpose, why is it suddenly not now! See what I mean? Don't change the rules half way through the game! Like I said. Don't roll over and give up yet!

Cheers.

[womble]

If you used a proper lawyer you wouldn't have a problem. The lawyer would make it clear that the land is national park or whatever else. He could then advise you that should you wish to pay under the counter to encroach you do so at your own risk.

Problems like this normally arise when people pay under the counter knowing full well what they are getting into. They think because someone has been paid they are safe. Reality check.

Now many of the buyers who were buying off The Peak may not know, but a decent lawyer who carries out the due dilligence properly will discover the fraud.

I personally have discovered access problems and ownership problems on land that I have nearly bought where many others went on to buy. The reason I discovered this and others didn't is because I chose to use a bangkok lawyer from a reputable firm where others chose the cheaper local option.

I think the "expensive" Bangkok lawyer was a bargain!

[Charma]

If you used a proper lawyer you wouldn't have a problem. The lawyer would make it clear that the land is national park or whatever else. He could then advise you that should you wish to pay under the counter to encroach you do so at your own risk.

Problems like this normally arise when people pay under the counter knowing full well what they are getting into. They think because someone has been paid they are safe. Reality check.

Now many of the buyers who were buying off The Peak may not know, but a decent lawyer who carries out the due dilligence properly will discover the fraud.

I personally have discovered access problems and ownership problems on land that I have nearly bought where many others went on to buy. The reason I discovered this and others didn't is because I chose to use a bangkok lawyer from a reputable firm where others chose the cheaper local option.

I think the "expensive" Bangkok lawyer was a bargain!

I know what you mean about lawyers! It is so difficult to know whether your dealing with professionals, incompentants or worse still, crooks! The culture of under the table payments in Thailand is far too ingrained and directly leads to situations like those currently being investigated in Samui. I think anyone who knowingly turns the blind eye when corners are cut deserves a bit of pain. But I suspect that there are many who have been totally duped by a system that they did not understand. Not everyone gets the beneifits of a site like TV before they commit money to Thailand.

[Rooo]

http://www.scandasia.com/viewNews.php?news...mp;coun_code=dk

This link was posted on the news clipping forum.Makes very intereting reading.