MH17 crash: Dutch experts say numerous objects hit plane

[webfact]

MH17 crash: Dutch experts say numerous objects hit plane

(BBC) -- Dutch experts say Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 broke up in mid-air after being hit by "numerous objects" that "pierced the plane at high speed".

A report released by the Dutch Safety Board said there was "no evidence of technical or human error".

All 298 people on board died when the plane came down, amid reports it was shot down by pro-Russian rebels.

The plane was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it crashed in eastern Ukraine.

Dutch aviation investigators relied on information from the black box flight data recorders, air traffic control, satellite images and photos from the scene to compile the preliminary report.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29119024


-- BBC 2014-09-09

[terryp]

they are called BULLETS

[blowin]

Panorama BBC did a program last night on the delightful Mr Putin. The had pictures of the Buk missile launcher parked up close to a block of flats and a video of the same heading for the border the next day. There is a conspiracy theory that the Russians were trying to shoot down one of it own commercial airliners so give the excuse to finish off in their eyes the Ukraine problem. The truth will prob. never come out but what came out last night was that the Russian bear is not going to asleep for a long time yet while Europe snoozes .

Edited September 9, 2014 by blowin

[JDGRUEN]

A proximity warhead on a missile ... just get close - no need to be exact. The warhead explodes with fragmenting armor layer around the explosive ... lots of small objects hit the plane.

[Chicog]

Exactly how it's supposed to work.

[Chicog]

they are called BULLETS

That is called POINTLESS CAPITALISATION.

[how241]

Exactly how it's supposed to work.

Thank you for that clear explanation.

[carstenp]

If anybody want to read the full report . Here is the link

http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/phase-docs/701/b3923acad0ceprem-rapport-mh-17-en-interactief.pdf

[Benmart]

they are called BULLETS

Bullets to bring down a jet aircraft? How many? Where did they hit the plane? What caliber? From what type firearm? From the ground or from the air? Anti-aircraft shells? Kinetic energy projectiles? Fired from where? Chances of hitting a jet aircraft with a bullet? Bullets? Didn't read that anywhere.

I don't know anymore than anyone else, unless of course, they have more information from some other source.

If that is the case, please share it with this uninformed reader.

[JCauto]

How241 explained it exactly for you including a picture. That's exactly how the type of missile said to have been fired by the Russians works. What more do you need?

[Krataiboy]

The how is far less important than the who and why, which we may never discover. Interesting that two other commercial aircraft took pretty well the same route across the war zone. Why, when the majority of flights that day had been directed well away from the area. And what about the reports of two Ukraine jets which apparently ":escorted" the Malaysian airliner during the last minutes of the fatal flight? Still a lot of unanswered questions and a conspicuous lack of reliable evidence. Both Putin and Obama must be thanking Isis for their timely distraction.

[Chicog]

they are called BULLETS

Bullets to bring down a jet aircraft? How many? Where did they hit the plane? What caliber? From what type firearm? From the ground or from the air? Anti-aircraft shells? Kinetic energy projectiles? Fired from where? Chances of hitting a jet aircraft with a bullet? Bullets? Didn't read that anywhere.

I don't know anymore than anyone else, unless of course, they have more information from some other source.

If that is the case, please share it with this uninformed reader.

One of the many stories put about by the Russians is that it was deliberately shot down by a Ukrainian fighter. Or that the Ukrainians shot it down with a missile to put pressure on the Russians. Or that the Ukrainians shot it down thinking it was a Russian plane.

Of course, the pro-Russian evidence is only evidence is heresay.

What is known is that the Russian-backed separatists had a Buk missile launcher, they spirited one back to Russia shortly after the event, the missile was launched from territory controlled by the separatists, and they had only recently shot down another Ukranian aircraft.

Occam's Razor......

I don't know why they don't just admit their mistake, pay some compensation and move on. It's not like them (or the US) haven't done it before.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Chicog

[masuk]

they are called BULLETS

I read somewhere that this type of missile is designed to explode before striking the plane.

Therefore it could have been shrapnel, not bullets ??

[sevenhills]

How241 explained it exactly for you including a picture. That's exactly how the type of missile said to have been fired by the Russians works. What more do you need?

Sorry, By the Ukranians and backed by the US. Follow the money.

[Bernard Flint]

Panorama BBC did a program last night on the delightful Mr Putin. The had pictures of the Buk missile launcher parked up close to a block of flats and a video of the same heading for the border the next day. There is a conspiracy theory that the Russians were trying to shoot down one of it own commercial airliners so give the excuse to finish off in their eyes the Ukraine problem. The truth will prob. never come out but what came out last night was that the Russian bear is not going to asleep for a long time yet while Europe snoozes .

I was wondering when a conspiray theory would emerge. has anyone wrote a book yet, they normaly try to make money out of death, despicable creatures.

[Bernard Flint]

How241 explained it exactly for you including a picture. That's exactly how the type of missile said to have been fired by the Russians works. What more do you need?

Sorry, By the Ukranians and backed by the US. Follow the money.

Now how would you know thaT MR PRESIDENT

[wwest5829]

they are called BULLETS

Disappointed in your response, please read the report. Not bullets.

[anon467367354]

evidence seems to point to the Ukraine shooting it down.

Russia has the radar data.

An air traffic controller in Kiev Tweeted what was going on before they deleted his account.

30 caliber bullet holes from both sides of the plane.

A German investigator says the plane was shot down and damage showing it could not have been brought down by a BUK missile.

Video of soldiers taking passports (in pristine condition) out of the back of a van for the cameras.

No BUK missile smoke trail, they are a rocket.

Tons of information out there and none of it points to Russia, only the US saying and we all know they love their false flags.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMFfBsxug0U

[Jdiddy]

"Damage observed on forward fuselage and cockpit section of the aircraft appears to indicate that there were impacts from a large number of high energy objects from outside the aircraft"

Dosnt say it was a missile, dosnt say it was cannon rounds (AP, explosive, splinter/dumdum ect), both ultimately end up being "high energy objects"

Anyway, wasnt the intention of this report to label what kind of weapon bought the plane down

[BATHIK]

Dutch report says "high energy objects" hit the cockpit from above, there's a picture of the cockpit floor and roof included to demonstrate that. We don't know at what angle, though, which is important.

Boeing was in range of two Buks - one Ukrainian battery shown on Russian satellite pictures and the alleged rebel one some 20km to the east. Ukrainian Buk was closer but not by much. Basically, they formed an equilateral triangle.

Direction where missile came from can possibly tell investigators which Buk was used.

Location of the rebel Buk was determined from a single photo showing missile trail, but against clear blue sky. Dutch report, however, has a weather map that shows solid cloud cover over that area. If that trail photo doesn't hold, well..., it was promoted by Ukrainian security services and if they were caught posting fakes, what can we tell about the rest of their theory?

If missile came from Ukrainian Buk it would have hit from the right and possibly clipped the left wing, which we can see from the pictures of the debris (but it wasn't mentioned in the report). If the missile came from the rebel Buk it would have hit the plane almost directly from the front and so damage to the left wing was from something else.

[Chicog]

evidence seems to point to the Ukraine shooting it down.

Russia has the radar data.

An air traffic controller in Kiev Tweeted what was going on before they deleted his account.

30 caliber bullet holes from both sides of the plane.

A German investigator says the plane was shot down and damage showing it could not have been brought down by a BUK missile.

Video of soldiers taking passports (in pristine condition) out of the back of a van for the cameras.

No BUK missile smoke trail, they are a rocket.

Tons of information out there and none of it points to Russia, only the US saying and we all know they love their false flags.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMFfBsxug0U

The person who supposedly tweeted from ATC did not exist - it was a fake account.

MOSCOW — One of the first of the various bizarre theories to emerge from the Russian media's coverage of the Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 downing was also one of the most outlandish: the Tale of the Spanish Dispatcher. The night of the disaster, a certain "Carlos," presenting himself as a Spanish air traffic controller working in Kiev, began Tweeting in Spanish that Ukrainian jets, rather than separatists on the ground, had shot down the passenger plane. Russian media took the bait: "Spanish dispatcher: Two Ukrainian warplanes were near the Boeing before its disappearance," read the headline on the Kremlin's most propagandistic news outlet, Russia Today. Several major news outlets also picked up the story with similar headlines, including state channel Rossiya 24, the Defense Ministry's Zvezda channel, and popular newspapers like Komsomolskaya Pravda and Rossiiskaya Gazeta, the official mouthpiece of the Russian government

<snip>

By the next day, Ukrainian and Western journalists had revealed "Carlos's" account, which has since been deleted, to be a fake.(The Spanish embassy said this Twitter user had been active during the Kiev protests but denied that any Spanish air traffic controller was in Ukraine.) Even Igor Korotchenko, editor of the Russian journal National Defense, argued the plane had not been shot down by fighter jets.

Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9bc_1405857303#lj6oTRLvYOBREiVF.99

A German investigator would not be alone in saying the plane was shot down. It was. By a missile.

Much of the personal belongings were in fact pristine, a Sky News reporter even went through someone's bag live on air (the silly sod).

Tons of stuff out there that you will believe if you are suffering from cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias.

But also the simple facts that make the general narrative by far the most likely, not least of which is the fact that Russian separatists had used a missile system to bring down a Ukrainian IL-76 not long before.

So why would you believe these Russian-made fairy stories?

[hawker9000]

they are called BULLETS

and that's called WRONG

[Bwanatickey]

Nothing conclusive at the moment. Will the truth ever be revealed, yes eventually when the ones who fired the projectile finally talk, maybe 10 years time, because you can bet your bottom dollar that those grunts ( Pawns ) have been told in no uncertain terms to shut up.

[hard124get]

they are called BULLETS

Disappointed in your response, please read the report. Not bullets.

The report does not say if it was bullets or shrapnel. Maybe you should read it.

[Scott]

An off-topic post and reply deleted. The topic is about Dutch experts reporting on a Malaysian aircraft that may have been shot down by Ukraine or Russia. The fiscal policies of the US is off-topic.

[wwest5829]

they are called BULLETS

Disappointed in your response, please read the report. Not bullets.

The report does not say if it was bullets or shrapnel. Maybe you should read it.

My point exactly. You state that "they are called BULLETS".

[Moonlover]

Dutch report says "high energy objects" hit the cockpit from above, there's a picture of the cockpit floor and roof included to demonstrate that. We don't know at what angle, though, which is important.

Boeing was in range of two Buks - one Ukrainian battery shown on Russian satellite pictures and the alleged rebel one some 20km to the east. Ukrainian Buk was closer but not by much. Basically, they formed an equilateral triangle.

Direction where missile came from can possibly tell investigators which Buk was used.

Location of the rebel Buk was determined from a single photo showing missile trail, but against clear blue sky. Dutch report, however, has a weather map that shows solid cloud cover over that area. If that trail photo doesn't hold, well..., it was promoted by Ukrainian security services and if they were caught posting fakes, what can we tell about the rest of their theory?

If missile came from Ukrainian Buk it would have hit from the right and possibly clipped the left wing, which we can see from the pictures of the debris (but it wasn't mentioned in the report). If the missile came from the rebel Buk it would have hit the plane almost directly from the front and so damage to the left wing was from something else.

Modern Anti-Aircraft missiles do not hit their target. They are a 'fragmentation weapon', designed to fly up alongside the target and then explode, showering it with shrapnel. Moreover, they are programmed to explode close to the front of the target to maximize the chance of killing/disabling the crew. The photographs and the debris field shown in the report are consistent with this type of attack. Note that in the picture of debris field, the front section and cockpit came down some 2 kilometres before the main crash site. It would have broken off in a similar manner to the Lockerbie incident.

[wprime]

they are called BULLETS

Disappointed in your response, please read the report. Not bullets.

Disappointed in your response, please read the report. Bullets were not ruled out.

[BATHIK]

Modern Anti-Aircraft missiles do not hit their target. They are a 'fragmentation weapon', designed to fly up alongside the target and then explode, showering it with shrapnel. Moreover, they are programmed to explode close to the front of the target to maximize the chance of killing/disabling the crew. The photographs and the debris field shown in the report are consistent with this type of attack. Note that in the picture of debris field, the front section and cockpit came down some 2 kilometres before the main crash site. It would have broken off in a similar manner to the Lockerbie incident.

Yeah, yeah, about 7000 fragments flying out in the shape of a cone.

Buk isn't a modern system, it was designed in the 70s.

Its missile flies up, exhausts its fuel in about 15 seconds, then glides towards the target correcting its course only aerodynamically, without engines, meaning there isn't much scope for maneuvering.

My point was that damage to the tip of the left wing is consistent with a cone of shrapnel coming from the right, it could have been remains of the missile itself, too.

Last I heard Malaysians are blaming Ukraine for not letting them to inspect the scene again. I guess they'd be better off negotiating their passage from Russia, not from Kiev, but that would be diplomatically unacceptable.

[wwest5829]

they are called BULLETS

Disappointed in your response, please read the report. Not bullets.

Disappointed in your response, please read the report. Bullets were not ruled out.

Bullets from the ground at 33,000 feet? Assume then. You think that the plans being shot down by aircraft?