Leaving a Government school on "bad terms" ?

[BruceMangosteen]

Okay, decision is made. Leave after the first term. No notice to the school as want to be paid for October. Can bluff the end of October. Leave that to the experts.

How does one continue/enroll in the health program aka "Social" if she isn't yet terminated? Reading between the lines, yep, leaving Thailand in early October, one way flight back to the U.K.. If you figured that out before I told you, you are the kind of member I'd like an opinion from!

As for the rest, who care so much about the students, I humbly suggest you get with the program. The Thai schools don't give a darn about you and while the students can appear to be appreciative of your efforts, they will get over you in about half an hour. Their affection is superficial at best and you aren't the future of their education or careers.

[Somtamnication]

Yep, time to leave Thailand too, mate!

[Scott]

Bruce, I can't fully disagree with you, but I believe you are seeing the glass as half empty. That said, best of luck in the future.

[SlyAnimal]

If you're not going to give 1 month notice, then if you can, try to find someone, and suggest to the school, that this new teacher can take over your role at the school, and potentially start straight away (Assuming the school doesn't want to try finding someone themselves)

As otherwise it does leave the school in the lurch, and if you're going to try and still collect your October salary, despite not even intending on being in the country that month, it'd at least be giving the school something back. You can probably find either someone you know, (or even just someone from the forums here, maybe Wonnabebiker?), who is looking for a new school, without too much effort being required.

That's assuming that the school wasn't absolutely horrible of course.

[TerryLH]

"How does one continue/enroll in the health program aka "Social" if she isn't yet terminated?"

Is that a question you actually want answered?

Assuming the person has been paying into the system for 12 months, there is a simple form to fill out.

The SSO can tell you if something else is required in the case that the person is still employed, but soon to be unemployed.

[farang000999]

You sound like a horrible person.

[lostinisaan]

And next year they'll have an agency. .

[BruceMangosteen]

You sound like a horrible person.

It's not really "payback" but suffice to say, there is no mutual respect. I've got no reason to worry about nor solve their problems. Enough of my own, thanks. If I gave notice now or later this month, no chance October would be paid. The choice is simple. No notice and get October or give notice and lose it. Some folks on here don't understand the reality of Thailand and the farang teachers in the Government schools.

[siampolee]

Sadly it's the actions of people like the O.P. that have caused the situation he or she describes regarding payment or non payment situations.

Teachers are supposed to be ethical people are they not?

[Johnniey]

Right on Bruce.

They really don't give a flying fork about farang English teachers.

Ive been here for 28 years and put 3 kids through school. Native English teachers are purely for making the school money.

[WonnabeBiker]

If you're not going to give 1 month notice, then if you can, try to find someone, and suggest to the school, that this new teacher can take over your role at the school, and potentially start straight away (Assuming the school doesn't want to try finding someone themselves)

As otherwise it does leave the school in the lurch, and if you're going to try and still collect your October salary, despite not even intending on being in the country that month, it'd at least be giving the school something back. You can probably find either someone you know, (or even just someone from the forums here, maybe Wonnabebiker?), who is looking for a new school, without too much effort being required.

That's assuming that the school wasn't absolutely horrible of course.

I'm seconding Sly Animal. Go get approval for posting a job ad on Ajarn.com Leave - but have an ad in place for the time when they should be advertiising (but likely won't).

OTOH, I know of schools who intentionally LIED about placing an ad (while yours truly was stressed out to the point of not knowing whether he was coming or going, teaching 7 periods some days, 6 on thers, taking over the higher paid American's classes. and that guy was fired because he had a contract for 30,000 B. then they realized they can get others for less. It's a race to the bottom. Now, they only employ NAS, Native African Speakers.

[lostinisaan]

You sound like a horrible person.

It's not really "payback" but suffice to say, there is no mutual respect. I've got no reason to worry about nor solve their problems. Enough of my own, thanks. If I gave notice now or later this month, no chance October would be paid. The choice is simple. No notice and get October or give notice and lose it. Some folks on here don't understand the reality of Thailand and the farang teachers in the Government schools.

Bruce, sometimes it is not about a one month salary. Whatever they did to/with you. Another reason to call the white folks dishonest., doing so.

Whoever will start after you, will have a different contract, or something else that sucks. And to be honest, even if you think you deserve this one month salary, without even working, already back in the UK, but you actually don't deserve it.

If I were you, I'd really look for a replacement, send them a resignation letter and go back without the one month salary.\

But it's your own personal decision and this post is just my own view of it. Good luck back home.

You might find a good paid job, but the company goes bankrupt and you lose three months of your income. Also called Karma........

Edited September 11, 2014 by lostinisaan

[WonnabeBiker]

You sound like a horrible person.

It's not really "payback" but suffice to say, there is no mutual respect. I've got no reason to worry about nor solve their problems. Enough of my own, thanks. If I gave notice now or later this month, no chance October would be paid. The choice is simple. No notice and get October or give notice and lose it. Some folks on here don't understand the reality of Thailand and the farang teachers in the Government schools.

Bruce, sometimes it is not about a one month salary. Whatever they did to/with you. Another reason to call the white folks dishonest., doing so.

Whoever will start after you, will have a different contract, or something else that sucks. And to be honest, even if you think you deserve this one month salary, without even working, already back in the UK, but you actually don't deserve it.

If I were you, I'd really look for a replacement, send them a resignation letter and go back without the one month salary.\

But it's your own personal decision and this post is just my own view of it. Good luck back home.

You might find a good paid job, but the company goes bankrupt and you lose three months of your income. Also called Karma........

Bruce, have you got paid holidays? And when would you tell them that you won't be coming back? After having collected the October salary?

Wasn't sure when you would be leaving and whether you meant the September salary which would get paid early October (at my school - some get it earlier, I know).

[squarethecircle]

For the sake of people coming after you, do it legitimately. What you say is likely true (you're just a money-making monkey to them) so skipping out after taking the October pay is not morally objectionable, but this will sour them and future FT's will face the bad karma.

[lostinisaan]

For the sake of people coming after you, do it legitimately. What you say is likely true (you're just a money-making monkey to them) so skipping out after taking the October pay is not morally objectionable, but this will sour them and future FT's will face the bad karma.

How much do you know about that? Once you'd started to think that you're a MONKEY, YOU'LL BE ONE..........................

[BruceMangosteen]

For the sake of people coming after you, do it legitimately. What you say is likely true (you're just a money-making monkey to them) so skipping out after taking the October pay is not morally objectionable, but this will sour them and future FT's will face the bad karma.

There is nothing "illegitimate" about leaving without any notice. Teachers are terminated without notice all the time, and in addition, FYI, Thai's don't consider lying to be wrong. Why is the reverse not applicable? They have lied over and over to me over the years. Small things and big things. It's just part of life here. They will actually make money on the October as well since Bangkok pays as you must know, based on reports made by the schools to them. It's not at all complicated. The only "wrong" aspect is the impact on the students whom deserve more and better. However, with that said, you get what you pay for and they don't pay for professionalism.

[BruceMangosteen]

Bruce, have you got paid holidays? And when would you tell them that you won't be coming back? After having collected the October salary?

Wasn't sure when you would be leaving and whether you meant the September salary which would get paid early October (at my school - some get it earlier, I know).

Yes, October is I guess a paid holiday. There is no school. Yes, after collecting October's salary(at the end of October or early November) they would be told, or maybe I'll just not show up and they will figure it out in a week or three.

[BruceMangosteen]

How much do you know about that? Once you'd started to think that you're a MONKEY, YOU'LL BE ONE..........................

Sometimes, often in fact....when you pay peanuts....you get monkeys. This is applicable in this situation since the pay is peanuts.

[BruceMangosteen]

Bruce, sometimes it is not about a one month salary. Whatever they did to/with you. Another reason to call the white folks dishonest., doing so.

Not sure why race has entered into the discussion? But suffice to say, Africans, Indians, Thais, and Filipinos are treated differently than "white" western farangs. Again, nothing dishonest or "Illegitimate" about getting paid for October since it is earned for working the first term. This concept of finding a replacement is sort of silly IMHO. They have consistently driven home the notion that I'm easily replaceable by another farang as they come in "all the time" looking for jobs. Okay, there you go my Thai friends, just hire the one who comes in tomorrow. There doesn't seem to be a concept that the devil you know is better than the one you don't. "White" westerners are all the same.

[BruceMangosteen]

You might find a good paid job, but the company goes bankrupt and you lose three months of your income. Also called Karma........

Don't worry too much about me mate. I'll be fine. I'm not destitute like so many of the teachers here you seem to have associated with. Cheers.

[WonnabeBiker]

Bruce, sometimes it is not about a one month salary. Whatever they did to/with you. Another reason to call the white folks dishonest., doing so.

Not sure why race has entered into the discussion? But suffice to say, Africans, Indians, Thais, and Filipinos are treated differently than "white" western farangs. Again, nothing dishonest or "Illegitimate" about getting paid for October since it is earned for working the first term. This concept of finding a replacement is sort of silly IMHO. They have consistently driven home the notion that I'm easily replaceable by another farang as they come in "all the time" looking for jobs. Okay, there you go my Thai friends, just hire the one who comes in tomorrow. There doesn't seem to be a concept that the devil you know is better than the one you don't. "White" westerners are all the same.

I hear you loud and clear.

Personally, I'm still struggling how Thais can lie and not lose face doing that. Is it a chapter in the good businessman's 101 handbook?

Especially when affluent people do it. I had a millionaire and owner of successful companies do it over $ 500. But then, some senior judge was caught with a large saussage under his overcoat in a local supermarket back home.

A school which fails to keep an employee has something to answer for as well. It's not just the foreign teachers who are unreliable and unprofessional etc. It goes both ways - and there is something like an echo at work. The way they shout into the forrest, the answer may come back to them.

Wouldn't it be good if there was something like a waiver scheme for schools, causing problems when they they high churn (turnover)?!? *** When this happened, a teacher flew back to S.F., the school wouldn't tell whoever sends them money for x foreign teachers that there would be x-1 for the next few months.

The existing teachers got to share the workload. And it took them (Thais at the school) many weeks to figure out that they would pay 4,000 B (in the case of yours truly) for x extra hours a week plus testing. Which wasn't paid the very last month. Surprise!

[SOTIRIOS]

...'legitimately'......???

[jacksam]

Well I'm one of the ones the OP would refer to as need to get with the program. Cut your losses!! One months salary. For heavens sake that's what 30k. Nothing. And in any event you will be in UK and not even working.

Dare I say it you won't be teaching in UK because you don't sound very ethical to me.

[NanLaew]

You might find a good paid job, but the company goes bankrupt and you lose three months of your income. Also called Karma........

Don't worry too much about me mate. I'll be fine. I'm not destitute like so many of the teachers here you seem to have associated with. Cheers.

I see. So you're not exactly giving up your day job then.

[MaiPenRai3]

Bruce,

It's clearly time for you to go back home, wherever that is. Based on your comments, people like you only contibute to the negative cycle in EFL education in Thailand. It would seem that you also continue to perpetuate the myth that all Thais and Thai schools are liars and horrible people/places. It's extremely childish to leave any job without notice regardless of what you think may or may not happen if you do give notice. All your planned actions will do is leave a bad taste in the mouth of the Thais you have worked with and this will affect any future dealing with foreigners and foreign teachers. If you are only 22, I can get it. If you are any older than that, shame on you!

Part of the problem or part of the solution. Where do you stand? Seems clear.

If your school and students forget about you in 30 minutes perhaps you should look at yourself. I am still in contact with some students from more than 7 years ago and I continue to counsel them through their Univeristy years and have even helped some get jobs. When visiting, I have been welcomed back to schools where I previoulsy worked. Welcomed with smiles from teachers and photos of me still on walls. I know many others with similar stories.

[jacko45k]

Sadly it's the actions of people like the O.P. that have caused the situation he or she describes regarding payment or non payment situations.

Teachers are supposed to be ethical people are they not?

They might be more-so if their employers were.

I have always expected my 'boss' to lead by good example...... doesn't seem to work here.

Try finding the manager in his office!

[soitgoes769]

The Govt. Schools could care less about you. I have been working in one for a few years now. The schools are incredibly unprofessional. Their regard for your value is next to nothing. I get tired of the lack of ethics and seeing children whipped with bamboo sticks. After years of being treated like I am a dancing white monkey and that they are doing me a huge favor for working for 27,000/month, I support your decision to get what you can from the system and leave. This is a bridge you can afford to burn. Teaching in a govt. school in Thailand is not a career building endeavor. Even the best schools look down at this kind of experience. Good luck. Hope you can get what you can.

Edit. I should say, I stay because I can look past these things. It is an OK situation for me. But the reality of the working conditions in some (not all govt. schools) is awful.

Edited September 12, 2014 by soitgoes769

[spectrumisgreen]

Bruce, I can't fully disagree with you, but I believe you are seeing the glass as half empty. That said, best of luck in the future.

Not only is Bruce seeing the glass as half-empty as opposed to half-full but is yet another individual out here who thinks the glass is actually draining while he stands, frowning, and looks at it and also spins around instantly in search of a Thai to blame!! I'm not exactly a glass always half-full person either but I make the best of what I can and don't get myself in an always 'put upon' mindset which would totally undermine my own reasons for being here.. the generally sabai-sabai life, certainly compared with our own countries for sure!.. If that's not true for you, then go back, I would say to anyone. I have worked in Thailand, yes government schools, since November 2007, and while it is far from the ideal job/ pay/ money/ conditions etc etc.. I wouldn't have stayed on if I didn't feel I'd be happier just to either put up or shut up.. basically, Thailand is my home now, NOT the UK, and I don't wish it any other way! Personally I take each small or greater issue simply as it comes and say my piece or leave it for the birds as i deem necessary, at the time, for my own peace of mind. Certainly, those who aren't happy at all (except when they're whinging!) then while that is their prerogative I do resent that they so often presume to come out with such 'humbug' statements as 'Get with the program' to the rest of us who just don't want to live in 'the basement' they're clearly so happy to put themselves!!!...

[lostinisaan]

Bruce, sometimes it is not about a one month salary. Whatever they did to/with you. Another reason to call the white folks dishonest., doing so.

Not sure why race has entered into the discussion? But suffice to say, Africans, Indians, Thais, and Filipinos are treated differently than "white" western farangs. Again, nothing dishonest or "Illegitimate" about getting paid for October since it is earned for working the first term. This concept of finding a replacement is sort of silly IMHO. They have consistently driven home the notion that I'm easily replaceable by another farang as they come in "all the time" looking for jobs. Okay, there you go my Thai friends, just hire the one who comes in tomorrow. There doesn't seem to be a concept that the devil you know is better than the one you don't. "White" westerners are all the same.

I hear you loud and clear.

Personally, I'm still struggling how Thais can lie and not lose face doing that. Is it a chapter in the good businessman's 101 handbook?

Especially when affluent people do it. I had a millionaire and owner of successful companies do it over $ 500. But then, some senior judge was caught with a large saussage under his overcoat in a local supermarket back home.

A school which fails to keep an employee has something to answer for as well. It's not just the foreign teachers who are unreliable and unprofessional etc. It goes both ways - and there is something like an echo at work. The way they shout into the forrest, the answer may come back to them.

Wouldn't it be good if there was something like a waiver scheme for schools, causing problems when they they high churn (turnover)?!? *** When this happened, a teacher flew back to S.F., the school wouldn't tell whoever sends them money for x foreign teachers that there would be x-1 for the next few months.

The existing teachers got to share the workload. And it took them (Thais at the school) many weeks to figure out that they would pay 4,000 B (in the case of yours truly) for x extra hours a week plus testing. Which wasn't paid the very last month. Surprise!

Especially when affluent people do it. I had a millionaire and owner of successful companies do it over $ 500. But then, some senior judge was caught with a large saussage under his overcoat in a local supermarket back home

Why would I get caught, having my large sausage under my overcoat? Can't let it hang outside though.

Edited September 12, 2014 by lostinisaan

[cup-O-coffee]

Bruce, I can't fully disagree with you, but I believe you are seeing the glass as half empty. That said, best of luck in the future.

We come here with a full volume and the Thais hand us a glass that is twice as large.

They always unreasonably expect more, that we can't possibly give.

There is no shame in admitting it and going somewhere else for a respite.

This poster has my respect. She or he is the collateral damage of lunacy. Lunacy has no room for sanity.