Hunt for killers of British pair goes on after Thai police free Myanmar suspects

[Neeranam]

The country's Prime Minister, General Prayuth Chan-ocha, said: "This should not have happened in Thailand. It will affect our image in the eyes of international countries."

Foolish statement, the image of Thailand is more darkly painted by the antics of locals putting on public shows in upstairs rip-off joints in Patpong.

Sir, you may need say no more than the perpetrators will be brought to justice and punished to the full extent of the law.

That adds to the reason m.any people come here. There are not many I know who haven't been upstairs in a PP show or secretly yearn to be.

[halloween]

Some years back, an English girl was raped and murdered on Lamai Beach on New Years Eve. It made for big news in the UK.

2 days later, an english friend got a call from his mother - isn't that where you live, it looks absolutely beautiful. He said "yeah, if you don't mind being raped and murdered" to which his mother replied "I could be raped and murdered in my own home." (as related to me).

Millions of people who had never heard of koh Tao will now know of it and its attractions. Once the crime is solved and the hullaballoo dies down, tourism will actually increase IMHO.

'There's no such thing as bad publicity.' P T Barnum

Copy from another thread.

[pkspeaker]

It's not 'muslims' or part of the insurgency, the islanders down there are rarly muslim as the muslims are on the mainland, AND that island is not that far south, the muslim part is the southernmost bordering malaysia, the muslims separatist movement in the south has not targeted foreign tourists ..

[brewsterbudgen]

She should read this first Fred, The Prison Restaurants are not very inviting .

http://www.vietnamonline.com/planning/common-travel-scams-and-how-to-avoid-them.html

Yes, I would think it's a big mistake to think that crimes against tourists won't happen in Vietnam!

[7Heaven]

As a former, long-time police investigator involved in many homicide investigations, I don't find the PMs statement of "We have to look into the behaviour of the other party too because this kind of incident should not happen to anybody and it has affected our image," out of line with conducting a thorough investigation.

I would want to know many, many things about the behaviour of the victims including:

1. Who had they associated with over the evening and during their visit to Koh Tao?

2. Did either have a personal relationship with another person who was on the island?

3. Was either the subject of amorous attention of another person?

4. Who were they with immediately before heading to the beach?

5. Had they had a business or transactional dispute while on the island?

6. Did they have any arguments or disagreements with anyone on the night in question?

7. Did they use or attempt to purchase illegal drugs?

8. Were they drinking or intoxicated?

9. And many more.

I don’t interpret the PMs statement about their behavior as necessarily relating to any sexual contact between the two victims. At this stage I don’t even think that sexual contact between the two victims has been forensically established.

Looking into the behavior of the victims and the circumstances of the murder help to establish motive which is the single most important factor in narrowing the scope of an investigation.

Regarding his statement that "it has affected our image", that would be very difficult to argue.

Afther a look at the pictures it seems that someone have killed them when they had sex. Will not post the link here but send a pm if you want to see them.

[richusa]

Who kills 2 people with a hoe/rake? Easy one to narrow down.

[jpeg]

Perhaps , in the future traveller's to Thailand can regain some faith in the Countries security.?

How is this possible if the inherent mindset of the authorities is the prevailing 'well if they weren't here it wouldn't have happened'?

[Overandout]

On one hand it is clear that the PM of an "international country" should be a bit more aware of the cultures beyond his shores who will receive his messages, but on the other hand, Western cultures are all so very quick to point out that if other cultures don't match their own in circumstances like this, they must be abhorrent, and unacceptable.

I don't know what the statistics are with regards to the danger / risk of being attacked as a tourist in Vietnam compared to Thailand, but I wouldn't expect the reaction of authorities to be vastly different within the global scheme of things.

When we (westerners) visit other countries we are visiting other cultures, warts and all, not just the positive sides.

Of course, I am not condoning any violence and I personally would like to give my greatest sympathies to the families of these victims, because that is what my culture has taught me is right.

BUT, if you want to be treated to Western standards in all eventualities, please think about Bognor Regis instead of Thailand.

[oldsailor35]

I am disgusted that the PM of any country could utter such words. Reprehensible

This is what you wi have to expect when there is a self appointed military man in the position of Prime Minister. This man , a General has for too long been used to saying whatever he likes without repercussions . Shame you Gen Prayuth, shame until you apoligise to the families.

[craigt3365]

A few extremely inappropriate posts have been removed from view. Thanks to the members who reported these posts.

The member in question is now on a posting holiday. Please remember, family and friends DO read these threads. Show some respect, please.

[wilcopops]

Some years back, an English girl was raped and murdered on Lamai Beach on New Years Eve. It made for big news in the UK.

2 days later, an english friend got a call from his mother - isn't that where you live, it looks absolutely beautiful. He said "yeah, if you don't mind being raped and murdered" to which his mother replied "I could be raped and murdered in my own home." (as related to me).

Millions of people who had never heard of koh Tao will now know of it and its attractions. Once the crime is solved and the hullaballoo dies down, tourism will actually increase IMHO.

'There's no such thing as bad publicity.' P T Barnum

Copy from another thread.

or another mis-attributed quote....

"“Nobody ever lost a dollar by underestimating the taste of the [American] public.”

[monk213]

I have a bad feeling that they have slipped through the net due to police negligence. Boats were going out at 6am and police were alerted half an hour later, the person or persons are probably far away from Koh Tao, how far though who knows. I hope the DNA comes back with something to go on

[oldsailor35]

I am disgusted that the PM of any country could utter such words. Reprehensible

I also find his comment total disgusting, insensitive and insulting to the family. Blaming the victims is sickening and his comment was aired on Australian ABC News this morning and has been discussed on 3AW radio where a number of people have voiced thier disgust. The P.M has caused far more damage to Thailands reputation than these two inocent victims ever did. The P.M needs to imeadiately make a full and public apology to the families to try and restore Thailands image but that will probably be a severe loss of face.

The lowest of Low

Thanks for bringing that to our attention , we were unaware of this.

Cancelling our daughters trip there was the correct thing to do, but in light of the highest office in their land saying this , more so.

Its a reflection of a very unenlightened mind-set, and disturbing almost as much as the crime.

Words can not express the effect it must have on the parents/ family.

Very nasty , and uncalled for.

Horrible short sighted , vile disregard and certain to have phones ringing world wide asking Flight centres to change destinations.

Worst remark i have heard in a very long time.

You have to understand, this PM is a self appointed military General so in recent years he has been able to say whatever he likes. Rather disgusting, this man has got a lot to learn if he wants to strut amongst the worlds democratically elected Prime Ministers and be respected.

[oldsailor35]

""We have to look into the behaviour of the other party too because this kind of incident should not happen to anybody and it has affected our image," so what "behaviour" is that? Having a holiday in Thailand or getting in the way of violent people?

He's implying they had public sex / nudity. So he is saying its OK to murder and rape someone because some Thai's sensibilities were offended. Sickening... I hope the western press have gotten a hold of this. Anyway, this PM is hardly representative of the majority of Thais....how can an unelected PM be anything else?

I am not sure that they were having sex, they could have just been skinny dipping, this happens all the time.

[jpeg]

As a former, long-time police investigator involved in many homicide investigations, I don't find the PMs statement of "We have to look into the behaviour of the other party too because this kind of incident should not happen to anybody and it has affected our image," out of line with conducting a thorough investigation.

I would want to know many, many things about the behaviour of the victims including:

1. Who had they associated with over the evening and during their visit to Koh Tao?

2. Did either have a personal relationship with another person who was on the island?

3. Was either the subject of amorous attention of another person?

4. Who were they with immediately before heading to the beach?

5. Had they had a business or transactional dispute while on the island?

6. Did they have any arguments or disagreements with anyone on the night in question?

7. Did they use or attempt to purchase illegal drugs?

8. Were they drinking or intoxicated?

9. And many more.

I don’t interpret the PMs statement about their behavior as necessarily relating to any sexual contact between the two victims. At this stage I don’t even think that sexual contact between the two victims has been forensically established.

Looking into the behavior of the victims and the circumstances of the murder help to establish motive which is the single most important factor in narrowing the scope of an investigation.

Regarding his statement that "it has affected our image", that would be very difficult to argue.

Your list might fly on your beat at home, but would certainly not fit the criteria for an investigation of a murder of a person/s on holiday But thanks anyway Cluseau.

[wabothai]

Call in foreign investigators.

Together they have more experience than Thai.

Forget about losing face !

[tbthailand]

my heart felt sympathy for the families and friends. I really cannot imagine how they feel.

[NongKhaiKid]

After 10 years living with me, my g/f is used to the behaviour of farangs and quite tolerant of it. When it comes to the subject of sexual intercourse in public, even at night and on a secluded(??) beach, her attitude is "Get a room!" with no area of negotiation. This has nothing to do with her sympathy for young people brutally murdered.

This attitude would probably be even more strongly felt in more conservative circles.

I recall a previous member, I believe it was a DrLom OR somedodgy Ubon Ratch or even similarly MEL1, making similar similarities. He asked for 'transparency' on many ocassions about the junta and Prayuth. Seems everytime he did he got banned.

What Prayuth has displayed here is completely the lack of transparency of the whole coup takeover, and how thick or ill-educated each major or general (arriving in their positions by corruptional means also) is, concerning suitability to positions given. His comments about this double-murder show Thainess in its own light, and how laudable the policing system is, how pathetic forensics are here, and why real results are never concluded successfully - blame it all on foreigners - be they caucasian, or Burmese (we lost the war, can't lose face), or Lao - (they have a better education system - but we can't lose face).

Thailand will become the laughing stock of the world, if it is not already, unless transparency is displayed, especially in the case of this horrendous case of MURDER. This one, I believe and hope, is one that cannot be covered up - but then again TIT...... find a tramp, place him at the scene - job done!

Let's see what the insensitive bastard PM does then, when he's torn to shreds by the media......internationally. Oh! I forgot, he doesn't care - he off to Maynmar to make best of mates with the JUNTA there, too!

SG.

in all my time as first tourist then visitor there has been a constant call for transparency on all manner of things which is just as constantly ignored.

In the last 24 hours we have seen transparency Thai style where commemoration of the shooting of students has been banned and reference to it removed from textbooks as with as reference to Mr. T.

If you can't read or hear about things they could not have happened, there now isn't that clear and transparent enough ?

I wonder what next aspect of Thai history will be removed from public record ?

[Oziex1]

This is positive news.

Resisting the temptation to have some patsy's take the fall for the crime , and go after the real culprit's is refreshing.

It was a particularly gruesome horrific pair of murders, a barbaric crime, that demands justice.

Lets hope they catch the criminal (s)

I know we cancelled our daughters planned trip there as a consequence .

The thought of what occurred just too sickening to place a loved one in that location.

She is now heading to Vietnam .

I am sure many other parents will do the same .

This will have a massive effect on travellers confidence its the 22nd murder of tourists in that country in just one year!

God what is going on?

Tragic……But all praise to authorities for not sweeping it under the carpet this time.

Perhaps , in the future traveller's to Thailand can regain some faith in the Countries security.?

Good luck catching the Killers.

Fred your daughter is in as much danger in Vietnam as in Thailand or any other place including her home town.

Also my country Australia has the unenviable record of possibly the most young tourist back packer murders any where and Australia is generally a very safe place .

[gdringjr]

As a former, long-time police investigator involved in many homicide investigations, I don't find the PMs statement of "We have to look into the behaviour of the other party too because this kind of incident should not happen to anybody and it has affected our image," out of line with conducting a thorough investigation.

I would want to know many, many things about the behaviour of the victims including:

1. Who had they associated with over the evening and during their visit to Koh Tao?

2. Did either have a personal relationship with another person who was on the island?

3. Was either the subject of amorous attention of another person?

4. Who were they with immediately before heading to the beach?

5. Had they had a business or transactional dispute while on the island?

6. Did they have any arguments or disagreements with anyone on the night in question?

7. Did they use or attempt to purchase illegal drugs?

8. Were they drinking or intoxicated?

9. And many more.

I don’t interpret the PMs statement about their behavior as necessarily relating to any sexual contact between the two victims. At this stage I don’t even think that sexual contact between the two victims has been forensically established.

Looking into the behavior of the victims and the circumstances of the murder help to establish motive which is the single most important factor in narrowing the scope of an investigation.

Regarding his statement that "it has affected our image", that would be very difficult to argue.

Your list might fly on your beat at home, but would certainly not fit the criteria for an investigation of a murder of a person/s on holiday But thanks anyway Cluseau.

You're right JPEG. The answers to the questions I posed relating to the victims behavior would not provide the police with any direction. What was I thinking? Also, for you, it's INSPECTOR CLOUSEAU.

[xray]

As a former, long-time police investigator involved in many homicide investigations, I don't find the PMs statement of "We have to look into the behaviour of the other party too because this kind of incident should not happen to anybody and it has affected our image," out of line with conducting a thorough investigation.

I would want to know many, many things about the behaviour of the victims...

Most people have taken what the PM is reported to have said as an inference that the deceased might have brought this on themselves with possible amorous activity on that beach, which would be a disappointing comment indeed. However, I am not so sure that is what he meant. More likely, what was meant is something along the lines of what you stated in post #59 (partial quote above).

Over the years, I've read enough inaccurate news reports (proven so after the fact) that I don't put allot of faith in them now. The PM's words in this case may have been poorly translated or taken out of context in such a way as to change their intended meaning.

[oldsailor35]

If I may make a suggestion the weapon used was a hoe in all my time here I never seen a farang buy a gardening tool. Now I know I'm not at every store in the nation 24-7 but I think I would be focusing in on Thai's now. Since there use to police calling all death's of farang's suicide. and end of search. I'm sure the tool used has dirt on it and other residue which can narrow where tool came from. But that would entail the police to use there brain's which is new for them. Finger prints other blood from who committed this crime. Stop looking for scapegoat and do some real police work or ask The US embassy allow the FBI take charge and solve this crime. Instead of bad mouthing these kids for enjoying they lives the way they may or may not have. There's no proof they were having sex on the beach unless the police have video tape. Judge not less you be Judged Honorable PM general no disrespect but maybe you were misunderstood in what you meant. If these were your children you would demand justice So do same forT

The weapon used was a hoe, commonly used on building sites to mix the concrete, so have the police bothered to check any nearby building sites or their crews.

[OnTheRun]

As a former, long-time police investigator involved in many homicide investigations, I don't find the PMs statement of "We have to look into the behaviour of the other party too because this kind of incident should not happen to anybody and it has affected our image," out of line with conducting a thorough investigation.

I would want to know many, many things about the behaviour of the victims including:

1. Who had they associated with over the evening and during their visit to Koh Tao?

2. Did either have a personal relationship with another person who was on the island?

3. Was either the subject of amorous attention of another person?

4. Who were they with immediately before heading to the beach?

5. Had they had a business or transactional dispute while on the island?

6. Did they have any arguments or disagreements with anyone on the night in question?

7. Did they use or attempt to purchase illegal drugs?

8. Were they drinking or intoxicated?

9. And many more.

I don’t interpret the PMs statement about their behavior as necessarily relating to any sexual contact between the two victims. At this stage I don’t even think that sexual contact between the two victims has been forensically established.

Looking into the behavior of the victims and the circumstances of the murder help to establish motive which is the single most important factor in narrowing the scope of an investigation.

Regarding his statement that "it has affected our image", that would be very difficult to argue.

I tend to agree with what you say above however I find for him ( the PM ) to come straight out with what he said crass and insensitive to say the least. If he's that worried about the image of Thailand surely his opening press release should have been along the lines of sincerest condolences to the families, leave no stone unturned, daily contact with the head of police etc etc. He could then have mentioned what he said in a later press conference as the investigation progressed. I was both shocked and disgusted when I read his press release / interview transcript.

Would you as a former homicide investigator, if given a high profile case, jump straight in with questioning the victims behaviour?

[Neeranam]

If I may make a suggestion the weapon used was a hoe in all my time here I never seen a farang buy a gardening tool. Now I know I'm not at every store in the nation 24-7 but I think I would be focusing in on Thai's now. Since there use to police calling all death's of farang's suicide. and end of search. I'm sure the tool used has dirt on it and other residue which can narrow where tool came from. But that would entail the police to use there brain's which is new for them. Finger prints other blood from who committed this crime. Stop looking for scapegoat and do some real police work or ask The US embassy allow the FBI take charge and solve this crime. Instead of bad mouthing these kids for enjoying they lives the way they may or may not have. There's no proof they were having sex on the beach unless the police have video tape. Judge not less you be Judged Honorable PM general no disrespect but maybe you were misunderstood in what you meant. If these were your children you would demand justice So do same forT

The weapon used was a hoe, commonly used on building sites to mix the concrete, so have the police bothered to check any nearby building sites or their crews.

edit - I din't know what a hoe was!!

[i claudius]

My niece was down there not to long ago ,,to be blunt these spots where lots of young backpackers go for a bit of a party lifestyle also attracts many of the wrong sorts of people ,just like Pattaya does , as for the PM;s comments ,well all i can say is even less tourists to clog up the streets now.

[Sparkles]

If the hoe was the weapon it would have fingerprints all over it wouldn't it ?

[Pii Kate]

I am upset about all of the assumptions being made by the Thai government. Partying at a bar before going to the beach could just be having a few drinks with dinner.

Making love on the beach is a fantasy most of us have shared. Where are their clothes, no mention of finding clothes. Stolen?

Life has so little value here it is frightening.

The accusations about the victims behavior is much like saying a woman wanted to be raped because she was wearing a short skirt.

A last comment on the new PM. The Thai army could not save this country from invaders to save their lives. Since the 1934 coup when the king was exiled, the army has been working for the king and it's job is to protect Him and his way of life only. Shame on them.

[gdringjr]

OnTheRun you are correct in that is is very poor protocol (and bad politics) for a politician to comment on any factual or investigative aspect of a high profile police investigation. Press releases including facts, investigations details and case progress should be made by the investigating agency, not a political head.

As you say, an appropriate statement by a political head would include condolences, determination to close the case, allocation of resources and assurances that steps are being taken to prevent future, similar incidents. Disclosing details, observations or opinions about the case is not appropriate for the PM.

[xray]

If the hoe was the weapon it would have fingerprints all over it wouldn't it ?

Hopefully usable fingerprints and DNA.

[Anon999]

I am disgusted that the PM of any country could utter such words. Reprehensible

It depends on whether you have a one track mind! The statement could obviously be taken ambiguously, however, he may have been referring to the fact you must be very careful at night time as to where you go. It is not the same as being in a Western country. Visitors and tourists are not aware of the inherent dangers you can face in a foreign country like Thailand. However, he should have expressed condolences to their families and made it clear of his own disgust at the murder of 2 innocent people.