British backpacker arrested for suspected murder of fellow Britons at Koh Tao

[englishoak]

This is tragic..this is a case of Thai loses face badly in bar over blonde girl. He leaves, calls his mates and it's all over..sorry but this is it, bluntly.

They hunt in packs this lot. It was brutal she was repaid for knocking back a Thai guy advances.

I posted a comment some hours back about a Thai guy looking out of place in the original video of the crime scene and thought what the heck is he there for, meandering with the police. PM made a statement saying the suspect is in the video (odd remark).

This is going to cause huge issues if it is Thai's responsible (which we know the answer).

link for video or a site ?

[wellred]

Maybe he means the CCTV footage from which they got the pic of that Asian guy?

[mango66]

Yes, I think they would care a lot considering this Chris is a lifelong friend of their son who will in fact be a friend of the family.

So yes, I think at this moment in time they care very much who the actual killer is, and even more so if they are starting to get an inkling that if it was indeed a local, that the police are not going to be motivated to bring their son/daughter's murderer to trial for the sake of tourist revenue.

The case, as presented thus far, against Chris Ware doesn't sound too convincing. The police initially let him go after questioning, as they presumably thought the Burmese were a slam dunk as the murderers, and only came back to him when that theory didn't work out.

Let's look at the circumstantial evidence the police are going on:

1. He left Koh Tao quickly. But we don't know his reason for that. Maybe after such a harrowing experience as losing his friend to a horrible murder and being questioned by some unsubtle Thai police who could hardly speak English he just wanted to get away. Maybe he had already planned to leave then.

2. He has a strange looking horizontal scab on his right hand in one of the pictures. We don't know his explanation for that. Maybe he cut it on a rock while diving. It is too low down to be from a punch thrown by him and injuries sustained defending oneself in fights are more likely on the front of the hands as they are put up to protect the face or body.

3. He was said to have been seen strolling near the scene before or after the murder. But they had all been partying, so going for a stroll by the sea to get some fresh air before going to bed is not unusual.

Some of this sounds not too good but the overall picture so far leaves a lot of room for reasonable doubt. Now let's see what seems against the police theory.

1. The commander of the the Phang Na police came out with a completely half baked a theory that Ware and Miller were homosexual lovers and that Ware murdered Miller and Witheridge in a fit of jealousy. Perhaps Ware is gay but Miller had a girlfriend back home and was presumably attracted to Witheridge. That he was bi and in a relationship with Ware seems a big stretch. Also Ware and Miller were apparently sharing a room with Ware's brother in the hotel. So perhaps the policemen imagined the three of them were having gay sex with occasional breaks to pot pretty young tourist girls that came their way. This theory just seems to be libellous nonsense that should be dealt with via a criminal defamation suit.

2. Miller and Ware were long-term friends from home. Friends do get into drunken arguments but, unless, Ware was paranoid schizophrenic, it is hard to imagine him brutally murdering his best friend and a virtually complete stranger as a result of a drunken argument.

3. A garden hoe would not be most farangs' weapon of choice, although one might pick one up in desperation to defend oneself or in a fit of rage. SE Asians from the countryside are much more likely to have used them to kill animals or seen them used to kill animals. Granted the hoe might just have been left on the beach or a farang might have spotted it in a hotel garden during the daytime and made a mental note of it as a potentially useful piece of equipment. But some one working around there would be more likely to know where to find it and what could be done with it.

I rest my case here, until more evidence comes to light.

I agree with you in 1 point:

The hoe -

in most crime the weapan leads to the murder;

But it seems in this case, the police dont focus on this at all,

maybee your theorie, as of the hoe, it could be a local;

[Duggsie]

"Two Britons were discovered nakedly..."

Somebody tell the Thai news rags to employ individuals who can actually write (or edit) correct English grammar for their English language editions.

dear brits !

did you ever hear that there are other languages existing on this globe?

how many % of brits are talking a 2nd language ?

( toilet flushing not counted as language )

and how they are with grammer on this language ?

my youngest is 4 years and already able to basic words

and understandings in 2 foreign languages;

Cool.

Carrying on looking like a Third-World Developing Nation jurisdiction then, rather than employing reporters capable of speaking and WRITING in the most globally accepted language of international communication - especially when it's a story of particularly English-speaking interest.

It's not as if the chap who hilighted this was asking the reporter to be fluent in Jersey-French, Gaelic or Welsh.

Simple (I use the term advisedly), but accurate, use of English would suffice.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Duggsie

[JohnThailandJohn]

Would seem at this stage they got the right man.

It would make sense from a possible motive stance given the crime appears to have been very emotional/personal given the injuries.

Although only speculating ... Not sure any rape was involved and would guess somebody stumbled upon the two having sex and become enraged. Would also suspect what is being called blonde hair was simply translated from light hair (lighter than typical Asian). Also suspect the blood found on his cloths was either transfer or splatter that the suspect and police neither saw initially.

Also sounds a bit similar to the train employee who raped and killed the young girl who explained away his injuries initially only to be arrested days later as more evidence was uncovered.

That's one hell of a speculation.

Why would it make sense for his best friend to kill him because he went off with a girl? That's what mates the world over do, certainly wouldn't be what I'd class as a motive to speculate over.

An attack like this almost always indicates the person knew the victims and was in a rage toward them ... possibly felt betrayed if he stumbled upon them having sex and he believed he had something special with the girl. While certainly speculation it is not one hell of a speculation but actually a very plausible one.

[farang000999]

So it is either a farang or a migrant worker?

No Thai suspects whatsoever?

Thai police only interested in taking bribes, not solving actual crimes, which they often seem incapable of doing.

[joecoolfrog]

Mango66

The point is that an English language report should be constructed using the correct grammar. The same applies if the language in question were to be Thai , Russian , Mandarin or Swahili. Im not sure what your problem is with Brits but you probably need to see a doctor about it , make sure he writes your prescription properly !

[Fred Flinstone]

If the blood on the british suspects turns out to be his own then it more or less exonerates him.

Semen to me seems the biggest clue.

How many deposits were there?

Even assuming the male victim might be responsible for one/none …several deposits (3) strongly implies more than one attacker.

Even the crime scene suggests it.

I doubt Thai men would because of rejection of advance, successfully organise a possie of such deadly nature.

But it may have just be an intended beating at first.?

If so it will Kill tourism there for years.

The Authorities can not convict publicly perpetrators who are vicious male Thai locals.

They will simply kill them at a later time one by one .

Eg one shot - one goes missing - one found in a garbage bin.

Others will get the message .

Meanwhile a Patsy would suffice.

But lets consider the crime.

It was likely the murderers were under some influence of strong drugs or intoxicated greatly.

It seems highly unlikely one male did all this.

It will be interesting to see if semen samples come back and are all from one male.

This is the Thais police biggest hurdle.

A single male depositing three amounts?

Edited September 17, 2014 by Fred Flinstone

[ukrules]

Im afraid ive just seen the pictures really wish i hadnt but in a way glad I did .......... OMFG the poor girls injuries are HORRIFIC, i had no idea... the rage involved to do that is soo Over The Top, the poor girls family ........ this person or persons have to be caught, if not they he/ they will do this again.

Yes, there were extensive injuries. These images will forever haunt Thailand.

[joecoolfrog]

JohnThailandjohn

Any number of scenarios are plausible , not least a jilted local, so why are the authorities so desperately keen to pinpoint a foreigner ?

[Duggsie]

Mango66

, make sure he writes your prescription properly !

LOL.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Would seem at this stage they got the right man.

It would make sense from a possible motive stance given the crime appears to have been very emotional/personal given the injuries.

Although only speculating ... Not sure any rape was involved and would guess somebody stumbled upon the two having sex and become enraged. Would also suspect what is being called blonde hair was simply translated from light hair (lighter than typical Asian). Also suspect the blood found on his cloths was either transfer or splatter that the suspect and police neither saw initially.

Also sounds a bit similar to the train employee who raped and killed the young girl who explained away his injuries initially only to be arrested days later as more evidence was uncovered.

No accused matches for DNA so far.

The odds that the British guy did it in a jealous rage is not impossible but really unlikely.

There may not be any DNA on the victims from the attacker. Despite rumors of rape, it doesn't sound like this type of attack would be rape related but rather a quick and violent assault. I highly doubt they have had time to run and report on the DNA found on the accused cloths when they stopped him at the airport. My guess is they were not blood soaked cloths or pants but rather small spatter or transfer stains.

Best I can tell is there has also been no official announcement about DNA which usually takes longer to than this to collect, process and compare.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Would seem at this stage they got the right man.

It would make sense from a possible motive stance given the crime appears to have been very emotional/personal given the injuries.

Although only speculating ... Not sure any rape was involved and would guess somebody stumbled upon the two having sex and become enraged. Would also suspect what is being called blonde hair was simply translated from light hair (lighter than typical Asian). Also suspect the blood found on his cloths was either transfer or splatter that the suspect and police neither saw initially.

Also sounds a bit similar to the train employee who raped and killed the young girl who explained away his injuries initially only to be arrested days later as more evidence was uncovered.

No accused matches for DNA so far.

The odds that the British guy did it in a jealous rage is not impossible but really unlikely.

There may not be any of the attackers DNA on the body. Not to mention I find it hard to believe they have completed DNA results at this time given numerous facts and how long it takes to properly collect, process and compare.

Given the attacks, I doubt the victims were raped as the attack seems very savage and sudden and personal likely the result of a fit of rage.

While we are left to speculate on information out there --- I would be very careful about believing anonymous sources leaking to the press and instead wait for the official statements that seem to be coming out daily.

[tullynagardy]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11101630/British-backpacker-was-drowned-and-beaten-to-death.html

Police say water was found in the male victims lungs. No semen found on female victim

All the reports i read confirm seaman in both her vagina and anus.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/thai-murders-british-backpacker-died-from-drowning-and-blows-to-head-9738342.html

[Duggsie]

Im afraid ive just seen the pictures really wish i hadnt but in a way glad I did .......... OMFG the poor girls injuries are HORRIFIC, i had no idea... the rage involved to do that is soo Over The Top, the poor girls family ........ this person or persons have to be caught, if not they he/ they will do this again.

Yes, there were extensive injuries. These images will forever haunt Thailand.

I, for one, will never view them but am already haunted by the descriptions I've found impossible to avoid.

Neither will I ever intentionally view either a clip, nor even a still photo, of Jihadist murder which is posted on-line.

Ignorance is bliss and I prefer not to afford the sick perpetrators of either type crime, nor their (unwitting?) accessories to the fact, any oxygen of publicity.

I don't need to have personally witnessed an atrocity to imagine it.

[JohnThailandJohn]

JohnThailandjohn

Any number of scenarios are plausible , not least a jilted local, so why are the authorities so desperately keen to pinpoint a foreigner ?

I think that is in your own mind. I think given the reports of light colored hair and migrant worker(s) acting suspiciously and around the scene is simply a matter of investigating leads ... not to mention it would be insane for them not to focus on those who knew the victims ... especially one with a cut on his hand.

What lead have you heard of a local doing it that has not been followed up on?

Despite the fantasy, insecure, angry and racist world some posters live in here, the police are being pressured to find the killer and nobody is trying to find a patsy who isn't Thai because of some ignorant belief having it not be a Thai will make things look better. Despite reading many posts here, most of the world is not so ignorant to believe Thailand is going to be more or less dangerous because of the perpetrator being Thai, a worker here or a tourist here. None of this matters as it still happened in Thailand by somebody in Thailand. And further most of the world is not so ignorant to believe that despite the nationality of the guilty, it isn't a reflection on their entire race or nationality.

Yes there is without a doubt big pressure to find the assailant(s) fast, nobody is getting any pressure to pin it on a specific nationality --- just completely idiotic to think this is the case. Just because it matter to some very vocal posters here doesn't mean it matter to less ignorant people. Solving the crime will be a reflection on Thailand -- not that brutal crimes occur sometimes here like other places.

Who the hell cares if they are killed by a foreigner or another tourist or some illegal worker? Regardless of who did it doesn't make Thailand anymore safe or unsafe be in perception or reality.

Edited September 17, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[Aceicol]

Would seem at this stage they got the right man.

It would make sense from a possible motive stance given the crime appears to have been very emotional/personal given the injuries.

Although only speculating ... Not sure any rape was involved and would guess somebody stumbled upon the two having sex and become enraged. Would also suspect what is being called blonde hair was simply translated from light hair (lighter than typical Asian). Also suspect the blood found on his cloths was either transfer or splatter that the suspect and police neither saw initially.

Also sounds a bit similar to the train employee who raped and killed the young girl who explained away his injuries initially only to be arrested days later as more evidence was uncovered.

That's one hell of a speculation.

Why would it make sense for his best friend to kill him because he went off with a girl? That's what mates the world over do, certainly wouldn't be what I'd class as a motive to speculate over.

An attack like this almost always indicates the person knew the victims and was in a rage toward them ... possibly felt betrayed if he stumbled upon them having sex and he believed he had something special with the girl. While certainly speculation it is not one hell of a speculation but actually a very plausible one.

It is a wild speculation. What is your experience of murders? I ask because you say that "An attack like this almost always indicates the person knew the victims and was in a rage toward them". Where do you get that from for this time of crime?

Isn't it more a case of most murders are done by people who know their victim? Why would a best mate murder his best friend over a girl they'd known 3 days? Whilst not impossible, it's really really unlikely as much as you seem to want it to be likely.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Aceicol

[JohnThailandJohn]

I was thinking about that too. It's possible that with the nightly parties on the beach, this wasn't the first time Westerners were seen having sex on the beach, offending sensitivities of the locals there. Maybe one local became enraged and just flipped out over it.

Possible but would think this would not be the first incident of an attack on a foreigner by this local. If this could get him to kill then would think he would have had many run in prior given the nature of some tourists behavior.

My bet is with the fit of jealousy / betrayal regardless if foreigner or local. While I think it very a very personal attack and likely a close friend it certainly could have been a local who maybe built some fantasy in their own head regarding him or her. Bottom line is whoever did it had some deep mental and rage issues.

[joecoolfrog]

I have not speculated at all , it is a fact that no local has been named , it is a fact that no media report has suggested that any locals have been investigated. On the contrary YOU have indulged in a great deal of speculation so who of us has an agenda ?

[moobie]

Just a few points to make (and to honest I had tried to avoid posting on this subject) :

Firstly, why absolve any Thai from the investigation on the basis of presumed innocence? So far migrants and backpackers seem to be the target.

If the young couple were caught whist engaging in a sex act then it would have to be assumed that they would have been found closer together than they were. I seem to remember an initial distance of 20m between them being stated? See later...

They left a party sometime around 1am and were found around 6am - so they were effectively in darkness and for anyone who has walked along a beach at night they will know it doesn't take much distance to slip into the night from any light source and become almost "invisible". Either noise or being stalked gave their position away to their attacker(s). The latter may suggest that they could have been forced there to their final resting places.

As it is, the latest Daily Mail report (11pm -UK Time. 17th Sept.) suggests that the young lad had tried to put up a fight against the assailant(s) before being beaten and maybe drowned. The young woman appears to have been sexually "active" although no trace of semen was found. Condom(?)

If I were to guess like many folk seem to on here : Multiple assailants, a quick, messy, "grab" and an unpleasant end. (Why multiple assailants? Because to the best of my knowledge of the reports no sound was heard from this incident. Either at the party or in neighbouring properties. You would need more than one person to silence and "contain" two people.)

Note, I personally don't care about the nationality of the assailant(s) but I seriously hope that justice prevails because the photos of that young woman will be with me for some time.

RIP.

(PS. Does anyone know if the RTP downloaded the photos from those at the party or even collected the names of those in attendance - it's surprising what can be caught in the background of many of them?)

[ukrules]

Im afraid ive just seen the pictures really wish i hadnt but in a way glad I did .......... OMFG the poor girls injuries are HORRIFIC, i had no idea... the rage involved to do that is soo Over The Top, the poor girls family ........ this person or persons have to be caught, if not they he/ they will do this again.

Yes, there were extensive injuries. These images will forever haunt Thailand.

I, for one, will never view them but am already haunted by the descriptions I've found impossible to avoid.

Neither will I ever intentionally view either a clip, nor even a still photo, of Jihadist murder which is posted on-line.

Ignorance is bliss and I prefer not to afford the sick perpetrators of either type crime, nor their (unwitting?) accessories to the fact, any oxygen of publicity.

I don't need to have personally witnessed an atrocity to imagine it.

Well they've been permanently archived outside Thailand so there's no possibility to ever remove / cover them up now.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Would seem at this stage they got the right man.

It would make sense from a possible motive stance given the crime appears to have been very emotional/personal given the injuries.

Although only speculating ... Not sure any rape was involved and would guess somebody stumbled upon the two having sex and become enraged. Would also suspect what is being called blonde hair was simply translated from light hair (lighter than typical Asian). Also suspect the blood found on his cloths was either transfer or splatter that the suspect and police neither saw initially.

Also sounds a bit similar to the train employee who raped and killed the young girl who explained away his injuries initially only to be arrested days later as more evidence was uncovered.

That's one hell of a speculation.

Why would it make sense for his best friend to kill him because he went off with a girl? That's what mates the world over do, certainly wouldn't be what I'd class as a motive to speculate over.

An attack like this almost always indicates the person knew the victims and was in a rage toward them ... possibly felt betrayed if he stumbled upon them having sex and he believed he had something special with the girl. While certainly speculation it is not one hell of a speculation but actually a very plausible one.

It is a wild speculation. What is your experience of murders? I ask because you say that "almost always indicates the person knew the victim". Where do you get that from for this time of crime?

Isn't it more a case of most murders are done by people who know their victim? Why would a best mate murder his best friend over a girl they'd known 3 days? Whilst not impossible, it's really really unlikely as much as you seem for it to be likely.

Why would anybody murder somebody they've known only 3-days? A random guy sleeping with a girl you believe you have something special is not going to get you nearly upset as a trusted mate doing the same.

The attacks were savage and they seemed to do over kill on the female and her face and this would indicate a personal attack.

I am not going to get into my life experiences on a public forum but I think if you do a couple google searches you can see why this likely appears to be a crime of passion/anger and it being personal.

Then again, none of us knows what the real facts are, we are just getting bits of pieces or partial info with some being accurate and some not. I am just basing this on what I have read about the attacks.

And yes, most murders are committed by family members or somebody they know. Probably only somewhere around 20% are committed by strangers.

[Aceicol]

Why would anybody murder somebody they've known only 3-days? A random guy sleeping with a girl you believe you have something special is not going to get you nearly upset as a trusted mate doing the same.

The attacks were savage and they seemed to do over kill on the female and her face and this would indicate a personal attack.

I am not going to get into my life experiences on a public forum but I think if you do a couple google searches you can see why this likely appears to be a crime of passion/anger and it being personal.

Then again, none of us knows what the real facts are, we are just getting bits of pieces or partial info with some being accurate and some not. I am just basing this on what I have read about the attacks.

And yes, most murders are committed by family members or somebody they know. Probably only somewhere around 20% are committed by strangers.

Finally you've said something I can agree with. However earlier you were suggesting it looked like they'd got their right man,based on a hand full of reports. The friend of the victim and Chris the friend who was helping Police on here said he's not been arrested, and travelled back to help them out with their enquires, I really don't know how you turned that into appearing to get their right man.

[ScotBkk]

Let's hope there's more genuine evidence than ' seen strolling near the scene ', I presume if it's him he was strolling before and not after the crime.

They have found a bloodstain on his clothes but wasn't he already interviewed and allowed to go and the stain wasn't seen then ?

I'm not saying he's innocent but the BIB get everything arse for elbow and it raises doubt especially when told from the very top to get it solved ' yesterday '.

He is the one they wanted to talk to but couldn't as he had disappeared on the first ferry out after the murders had taken place.

Was it just a coincidence he left in a hurry or was he fleeing the scene............You decided

YOU seem to have already decided, how do you know he did not already have a ferry ticket to leave when he did, that doesn't make him a murderer, wait for DNA facts before you hang him please (trust it to be a Scot to 'find' an Englishman guilty)

Quite the opposite my friend (I'm Scottish) I've been saying from the time this kicked off that he's 100% innocent and all this crap is glossed over and only an honest investigation would extract the main culprit. However, ain't gonna happen cause would make Thailand look bad .... if u get my drift !!!

[LanceGringo]

A post on here earlier (SirBser - a few pages back) claimed that a story was doing the rounds on the island, that Hannah had been getting unwanted attention from a Thai man, and David had to intervene and then got into an argument/heated conversation with him. This then led to the Thai man leaving and getting one of his friends, they then decided to wait for Hannah and David to leave so they could make there attack.

After reading that post several hours ago, and then reading all other released details since, I would say that it does look increasingly likely that the above scenario is in fact true.

David's head injuries looked to have been suffered as if he had been hit from behind, which may have been him either being jumped as the Thai men first attacked, or if David fought with one of the men, defending himself and Hannah (as reported), then another Thai man hit him from behind.

I also read that it was thought that Hannah had tried to escape, but she had been dragged back to the scene, which is possibly what may have happened whilst David had been jumped by one of the Thai men.

It is pretty clear from reports that Hannah was raped by at least two different men, as the DNA/semen evidence states that two samples were found. Which did not match any of the suspects the Police had been pursuing. So again, this would support the above claims.

I really do hope that the Police can pull this off, and bring to justice the scum that have committed these crimes. I also made the mistake of viewing the photos, and they really are gruesome, but worse still is how heartbreaking it is for both families, to think of there loved ones being harmed in this way, and for nothing, such a waste of young life. It will be a travesty if this case is not solved, and the families of both victims can at least get some closure knowing that the guilty party/parties have been sufficiently punished.

[alyx]

Off topic, don't we say "Scot"? Genuine question

Edited September 17, 2014 by alyx

[mango66]

Not sure if this has already been revealed to ThaiVisa but Channel 4 News, here in UK (one of the better news programmes) just stated that, despite having been interviewed and under suspicion, Mr Ware has been ruled-out of any DNA matches as the DNA collected doesn't match ANY of those currently considered suspects.

I wish people would keep their speculations to themselves and their buddie's in the bar and not broadcast globally, as so many have done here.

Let's deal in FACTS, shall we (that's a message to the Thai Police also who, if they have nothing to say would be best served by stating "we currently have nothing to say", rather than flip=flopping from one "plausible" possibility to another as, far too often, seems to be their wont.

We currently have only 2 facts:

1) Two innocents (their nationalities are not an issue) have been brutally murdered.

2) The perpetrator(s) is/are still walking free.

Forget blood-stained garments (allegedly), crimes of passion (speculatively), bikini-wearing Westerners (justifying their murder???? - insultingly).

Facts please, people. Because we need them and I yearn to see them posted, once verified.

As stated in a post of mine on another thread, my heartfelt heartbreak and wish for justice (whatever that can ever truly mean, in a case such as this) for the loved ones of these youngsters is foremost in my thoughts.

Also, this is pretty close to home for me as I'm not only from Jersey, where the male victim hails from, but two of my kids, each in their mid-twenties, are booked into the same resort on Kho Tao, in a few weeks time. Further, my son is a long-time friend of the male victim (David Miller) and shared accomodation with him and a bunch of other pals, for awhile. My son is suitably very upset at this horrendous news.

Naturally, we have no links to the poor lass from Gt. Yarmouth (but such matters not in the levels of empathy I hope I am capable of feeling towards her family and other loved ones distress and loss).

So, for the families, can we please reign it in on the crass and ill-informed armchair verdicts, boys and girls?

send then to Had rin, They can get the same there, non-limited as your youngsters like !

[ScotBkk]

Erm..... Well considering they were the first country to form a police force, would suggest they had the most experience in the world.

They also have a very successful murder detection rate compared with most of the other countries in the world.

Yes..... Normally when a Brit is murdered abroad, they almost always send out some British investigators... especially when a Brit has been fingered as a suspect.

Also, Thailand is the only country I can think of that employs foreigners as police... They are called 'tourist police' so Thailand actually relies on help from foreigners to do their policing.

"tourist police" IS NOT a term used for police volunteers.

Police wannabe's is that BETTER !!!

[JohnThailandJohn]

The family of Hannah Witheridge:

"A beautiful, intelligent, loving young woman who poured joy into the lives of all who knew her".

"She was selfless and caring and made each and every day that little bit more wonderful."

"Our family are utterly devastated and shocked by what has happened to our beautiful Hannah."

"To lose her in the way that we have is beyond comprehension."

"We are heartbroken and no words can possibly describe how we feel"

"As such, we would be extremely grateful to be left in peace while we come to terms with our loss."


David Miller's family:

"David was an artist by temperament, so talented."

"He had a creative eye that he carried with him through life and in his degree."

"He was hard-working, bright and conscientious, with everything to look forward to. David was very giving to his family and friends and we all adored him."

"He will be sorely, sorely missed."

R.I.P.

[Fred Flinstone]

JohnThailandjohn

Any number of scenarios are plausible , not least a jilted local, so why are the authorities so desperately keen to pinpoint a foreigner ?

I think that is in your own mind. I think given the reports of light colored hair and migrant worker(s) acting suspiciously and around the scene is simply a matter of investigating leads ... not to mention it would be insane for them not to focus on those who knew the victims ... especially one with a cut on his hand.

What lead have you heard of a local doing it that has not been followed up on?

Despite the fantasy, insecure, angry and racist world some posters live in here, the police are being pressured to find the killer and nobody is trying to find a patsy who isn't Thai because of some ignorant belief having it not be a Thai will make things look better. Despite reading many posts here, most of the world is not so ignorant to believe Thailand is going to be more or less dangerous because of the perpetrator being Thai, a worker here or a tourist here. None of this matters as it still happened in Thailand by somebody in Thailand. And further most of the world is not so ignorant to believe that despite the nationality of the guilty, it isn't a reflection on their entire race or nationality.

Yes there is without a doubt big pressure to find the assailant(s) fast, nobody is getting any pressure to pin it on a specific nationality --- just completely idiotic to think this is the case. Just because it matter to some very vocal posters here doesn't mean it matter to less ignorant people. Solving the crime will be a reflection on Thailand -- not that brutal crimes occur sometimes here like other places.

Who the hell cares if they are killed by a foreigner or another tourist or some illegal worker? Regardless of who did it doesn't make Thailand anymore safe or unsafe be in perception or reality.

Thats your opinion-

Go on twitter and the consensus is very different.

If a pack of crazed Violent Thai men are found to have done this , it will be the perception , that is dangerous far more - than if a jealous western lover did it.

Its not ignorance to suggest if the native population are killing your kind you don't go there.

Teens have parents.

Due to the extremely violent barbaric nature of this crime , the decision was taken to ban our daughters trip with eight friends.

My wife called other parents , and they decided likewise .

Water this down as you please.

But your so called reality is way out of step with world opinion.

This crime is the most brutal crime we have heard of for a long time.

It involves what should be a romantic paradise for youth to enjoy.

The sobering reality is its not just safe with killers on the lose but the place tarnished .

And the Thai opinion of us (westerners) as stated by no less then their leader shows disdainful disregard , and vile disrespect towards the victims family , and western tourists in general .

Thailand will Pay for this oversight , regardless of who is caught.

But its wrong to assume this matters not.

It certainly does.