Scotland votes no to independence

[pitrevie]

Those of us who were around at the time were very well aware of the oil potential. Westminster did everything possible to avoid losing Scotland. Why else do they continue to do this? Because the oil is still flowing strongly and the revenue lost to Westminster would be massive. They will pull every trick they can think of, including the last-minute promise voiced by Gordon Brown, which was certainly pushing the bounds of the rules on campaigning prior to the vote.

I guess using the same arguments that places like the Shetland isles who didn't want to remain part of an independent Scotland would have been allowed to separate and they would have been even richer than their southern neighbors. Or would they have seen their oil riches going to the prosperous south of Scotland?

Edited September 22, 2014 by pitrevie

[transam]

pigeonjake Platinum Member Advanced Members PipPipPipPipPipPip 2,379 postsPosted Today, 17:51oil oil oil,, thats all you here,, ship building why dont you mention that,?why becouse its england who sent the work there, and it would of gone back to england,,, i really dont think salmon thought it through,,armed forces,, youve got the scotch guards, we all mentioned the pound,, no lets just talk about the scotish oil,,,,,,END QUOTE =========================>> You can keep the shipbuilding if you relinquish your claim to the Scotland's oil.

The Scottish economy gains more from the financial sector( mostly based in Edinburgh) than it does from the dwindling oil industry, luckily for Scotland most Scots used their heads when voting, in spit of all the abuse and intimidation thrown at them by the narrow minded Nationalist.

The only certainty from this election I'm sorry to say, is the Neanderthals will continue to spew forth their their twisted view of the modern world and continue to hate those who do not agree with them.

What utter nonsense, the westminister government is so desparate to

hold on to Scotland because of " the dwindling oil industry "

Are you having a laugh? what a bright shining light of loving English nationalism you have turned out to

be. What a dipstick............................ or on the other hand you could be a complete

and utter

Eeeeeeeeeeeer, Scotland has been around for many a millennia and it will be around for many more, unfortunately folk like yourself don't understand that out of those thousands of years the oil underfoot will be available for a mere hundred years or less of that vast expanse of time. When it's gone it's gone, and that time ain't far off.........

[sandyf]

If the Nationalists had gone to the Scottish people in the 70's with a reasoned argument then they may well have generated a great deal of support. Unfortunately the rhetoric was tainted with violence which did not go down well with the majority of Scots.

In the recent campaign much of the history was left undisturbed as both sides had skeletons in the cupboard.

"On May 23 1975 after a 15-day trial, five men were convicted at the High Court in Glasgow, of plotting to help seize Scottish independence through the Army of the Provisional Government (APG). The press soon give these individuals the title "The Tartan Army" long before hordes of football fans invaded a football pitch in London. William Anderson was adjudged to be the major figure in the group which also included William Murray, Major Frederick Boothby, William Bell and Tony Tunilla who in total received jail sentences totalling 34 years. All but Bell were convicted of conspiring with intent to cause violence and injury to property. Two others, John Carlyle and Alastair Smith were aquitted although Smith had been cleared with any connection with the APG, was fined £75 for retaining Army manuals this was for contravening the Officials Secrets Act. The APG were also found guilty of a £8000 bank robbery in Springburn, Glasgow. - See more at: http://www.scottishrepublicansocialistmovement.org/Pages/SRSMAPGArmyoftheProvisionalGovernmentandtheTartanArmy.aspx#sthash.7B71E4Le.dpuf

[sandyf]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/how-black-gold-was-hijacked-north-sea-oil-and-the-betrayal-of-scotland-518697.html

So according to You this report in 1974 was kept secret for 30yrs, that brings it to 2004, Ten years ago, if it was true and so inflammatory why did't the Nationalist include this in their propaganda, let's be right about this, after all they were't shy in making false stories and claims part of their appeal to those narrow minded bigots that voted for the "YES" campaign.

Not according to me. Check the link.

[JockPieandBeans]

If the SNP and the yes campaign had a clear plan, with clear goals and simple to understand Policies that complimented the plan and worked to achieve the stated goals.

It would have been a YES landslide.

They did not have any of that. They relied on HOPE.

HOPE is not a plan and is almost always doomed to failure.

[sustento]

Like I said before, many of the Yes camp were getting g their excuses in long before the actual vote, and many, here at least, are still making feeble excuses for losing.

Why can you not simply accept that the majority of the Scottish people want to remain part of the UK?

As for reneging on the vow; phuketjock, despite liking rajyindee's post, you can't have read all of it. Otherwise you would not have missed the bit about the civil service already starting work on this to ensure legislation was ready for January in the, uncredited, report he quoted!

See also Miliband vows to fulfil Scottish devolution pledge

Ed Miliband has said the pledge of further devolution to Scotland will be fulfilled "no ifs, no buts" amid a row over additional powers for England.

He said he and other leaders made a "clear" pledge of new powers during the referendum and they must "honour" it.

.......

No 10 has made it clear that it will not renege on its Scottish commitments.

You'll see that Salmond, despite resigning, can't resist putting his oar in; but the Scottish people have shown at the ballot box that they believe little, if anything, he has to say!

And pigs will fly.

Apart from Gordon Brown seeming to be the only one who knows " processes are underway "

I believe parliament is in recess and closed which means your so called civil servants are all on

holiday until parliament resumes, so little chance of anything happening for sometime yet.

The civil service doesn't go 'on holiday' when parliament in in recess. Just how much do you actually know about how government works?

[7by7]

<snip>

I believe parliament is in recess and closed which means your so called civil servants are all on

holiday until parliament resumes, so little chance of anything happening for sometime yet.

Do you really believe that civil servants all get the same lengthy holidays as MPs?

Are you really that ignorant?

Parliament may be in recess, but the work of government goes on.

Edit; posted before reading the above.

To answer your question, susteno, it seems that he knows b*gg*r all!

Edited September 22, 2014 by 7by7

[phuketjock]

<snip>

I believe parliament is in recess and closed which means your so called civil servants are all on

holiday until parliament resumes, so little chance of anything happening for sometime yet.

Do you really believe that civil servants all get the same lengthy holidays as MPs?

Are you really that ignorant?

Parliament may be in recess, but the work of government goes on.

Edit; posted before reading the above.

To answer your question, susteno, it seems that he knows b*gg*r all!

Have to put my hand up to being a bit impetuous on the civil servant thing, guess I slipped on

the old banana skin there eh.

Still civil servants don't make laws and parliament is closed so no parliament no politicians to

do anything and so far I have heard nothing but talk from the three stoogies on their very public

front page Vows, and the same from G Brown on his stormy pre-referendum firebrand timetable

promises speech. Yet to see any action on any of their promises at all.

Feel free to correct me , as I know you will, if I am wrong????

[jpinx]

Here we are many days after and nothing's been on time according to the promised timetable.

I am amazed that the Scots were so gullible. All the real Scots are gutted - they saw the last-minute political hotair for what it was and now are calling the incomers who voted NO traitors to the country they chose over their original - for whatever reason. Everyone has known for years now that SNP means an independent Scotland -- why all the wavering at the last minute? We have been asking for a long time "Why is Westminster so desperate for Scotland to stay under their control?" Now we see the answer. MONEY!

Here's hoping Catalonia will pave the way now. They have the same problem of a highly resistive central government in Madrid who want to keep control of the money,,,,,,

Edited September 22, 2014 by jpinx

[sustento]

Here we are many days after and nothing's been on time according to the promised timetable.

Many days? As I write this it's still less than 4 days since the polls closed and two of them were the weekend!

[MJP]

Here we are many days after and nothing's been on time according to the promised timetable.

I am amazed that the Scots were so gullible. All the real Scots are gutted - they saw the last-minute political hotair for what it was and now are calling the incomers who voted NO traitors to the country they chose over their original - for whatever reason. Everyone has known for years now that SNP means an independent Scotland -- why all the wavering at the last minute? We have been asking for a long time "Why is Westminster so desperate for Scotland to stay under their control?" Now we see the answer. MONEY!

Here's hoping Catalonia will pave the way now. They have the same problem of a highly resistive central government in Madrid who want to keep control of the money,,,,,,

Have another go in a year or so. Just this time have a plan, a framework and all the numbers worked out and backed up and you're good to go.

[joecoolfrog]

Jpinx

Given your remarkable lack of logic or insight I conratulate you on managing to get dressed in the mornings.

[jpinx]

Jpinx

Given your remarkable lack of logic or insight I conratulate you on managing to get dressed in the mornings.

Thank you I do an even better encore when democracy prevails

[jpinx]

The promise was for the details and timetable to be declared on 19th . So far the only thing declared is the war between the various factions of Westminster!! ;-)

[Franky Bear]

Pretty much bang on the money. I actually thought Salmond would be gracious in defeat. I was wrong

Bitter alone, Salmond now a declared guerrilla leader in charge of government

Posted on September 22, 2014 by newsroom

A country whose First Minister is a agent of deliberate destabiisation has a constitutional problem on its hands.

First Minister Alex Salmond is clearly ‘Bitter Alone’ up in Strichen, with television cameras pretty well on call to record the evidence for the psychopathologists.

However, while one understands the constant mental thrashing around in despair and the endless rehearsing of events leading up to his defeat, Mr Salmond’s interminable intervention are much more than the meanderings of disappointment. They are intentionally destabilising of Scotland and the Union; and they are knowingly divisive, inexcusably targeting the vulnerable.

He threatens that a clear decision may be overset, disturbing Scotland’s recovery from trauma and the United Kingdom’s will to settle into the serious work of addressing the necessary constitutional reform.

The First Minister performed two shockingly irresponsible manoeuvres in yesterday’s interview with Sky News.

A unilateral declaration of independence

Mr Salmond floated the possibility of an independence simply declared by parliamentary edict by a majority administration at Holyrood.

To be openly considering such a thing is to admit that this is the only way Scotland can ever be taken to independence – against the wishes of the majority if its population. This is the perspective of a fully fledged autocracy, not a democracy.

However, such an action is constitutionally impossible.

Constitutional authority is reserved to Westminster which remains the principal power in such matters. There would be no legal constitutional legitimacy in such a move. There is no possibility whatsoever, within any union, of constitutional powers residing anywhere but in the central government of the Union.

Independence could simply be declared - unconstitutionally – by a majority administration at Holyrood - but it would be a UDI, a unilateral declaration of independence – a lark the ego-driven Mr Salmon may well, in his despair, be considering.

For an elected First Minister responsible for the stable government of a mature democracy – who has just lost a national referendum by a clear majority and with only four of the thirty two local authority areas of the country supporting it – to float this sort of suggestion is indefensible.

Scotland is now in the surreal constitutional position of having a declared guerrilla leader in official political power. And Mr Salmond’s deputy, Nicola Sturgeon, when she takes command, will follow her master’s voice.

UDI means ‘We’re off”. There would be no settlement of any kind between the United Kingdom and a Scotland declaring UDI.

There would be no inherited share of national debt and there would be no share of assets of any kind. A government that took such an action following the clear decision of a national democratic referendum with so high a turnout, would create a rogue state.

Scotland would find borrowing rates – if borrowing could be had – impossibly high.

The financial institutions would be gone at the speed of light – anyone who imagines that their survival contingency plans have been torn up is unimaginably naive, They are waiting to see how this clear decision of Scotland is accepted in what ought to be an adult democracy.

The oil industry would be off, and an abruptly independent Scotland would be left with the forest of decaying junk in the North Sea, much of it already well overdue for decommissioning.

The engine of Aberdeen would peter to a halt – and that is the front garden of the constituency Mr Salmond hopes to continue to represent. Good luck with that one, First Minister, if you’re hatching UDI.

Scotland would go overnight from being part of the landscape of international politics to being a car crash on the lunatic fringe.

Mr Salmond told Sky that referenda are ‘only one of a number of routes’ to independence; that ‘the writing is on the wall’ for the Union; and that ‘I think the destination is pretty certain, we are only now debating the timescale and the method.’

He touted a ‘gradualist; approach to independence. saying: ‘…you establish a parliament, you establish successfully more powers until you have a situation where you’re independent in all but name and then presumably you declare yourself to be independent. Many countries have proceeded through that route.’

This alerts Scotland to the fact that the nationalists must never get anywhere near power in this country again. They would be manipulating the levers of government from within – as they have already done – as ‘sleepers’, preparing for the day when they would throw off their clothes, reveal the metaphorical combat gear and AK 47s and simply make Scotland independent.

This is Mr Salmiond’s now declared vision of Plan B – and it is clinically unhinged as the intention of an elected First Minister of a democratic country which has just clearly expressed its contrary wishes.

Demonising older citizens

If that is the political timebomb the First Minister launched yesterday, he also began a deliberate attempt to set Scotland’s young people against their seniors.

He blamed older people for his defeat – since, with the wisdom of their experience of life and their accumulated expertise, they were the inconvenient seekers of answers he did not have to the most fundamentally serious questions.

Now Mr Salmond is deliberately attempting to make those people the target of the anger of the disappointed youth whose laudable but unrealistic dreams of an unfunded nirvana he cynically fostered for his own partisan electoral ends.

He told Sky: ‘When you have a situation where the majority of a country up to the age of 55 is already voting for independence then I think the writing is on the wall for Westminster.’

This points the finger at his perceived ‘culprits’ and reassures that they’ll die off anyway.

Peddling this irresponsible social inflammation of generational opposition is knowingly to propel the older part of the demography into the firing line of the hotheads, leaving the more vulnerable to live in continuing fear.

It is also blind to the fact that there is always another generation of 55+ people on the way up; and that, since the fundamental reality of life is that age is the accumulator of experience, expertise and knowledge, there will always be cooler heads to counter the life enhancing impetuosity of youth. It is that balance of energy and experience that allows a country to reach stable and constructive overall decisions, as Scotland has done.

A danger

Here we may have a profoundly disappointed man but his bullying and totalitarian character make him dangerous in his despair; in his teenage romantic hatred of ‘England’; and in his need to find a handy scapegoat for a loss driven by a dishonest and unable independence prospectus for which he and his Deputy First Minister were responsible.

Neither of them had the grace to turn up at St Giles in Edinburgh last night for a reconciliation service. This is the truth of their position. Their intent is retribution, victimisation and UDI, not reconciliation, not healing, not the declared ‘acceptance’ of the democratic decision or the willingness ‘to work with anybody’ in ‘Team Scotland’.

http://forargyll.com/2014/09/bitter-alone-salmond-now-a-declared-guerrilla-leader-in-charge-of-government/

[jpinx]

Fortunately column inches don't make for any greater truth. One totally fundamental point was missed by that post.. That SNP has since it was born declared itself to independence for Scotland. On that platform they won the overall majority in the Scottish parliament by a landslide. The fact that Westminster has managed to derail the referendum is only a small setback. Westminster are via guerillas now. Let's see how they like a taste of their own medicine ;-)

[transam]

Fortunately column inches don't make for any greater truth. One totally fundamental point was missed by that post.. That SNP has since it was born declared itself to independence for Scotland. On that platform they won the overall majority in the Scottish parliament by a landslide. The fact that Westminster has managed to derail the referendum is only a small setback. Westminster are via guerillas now. Let's see how they like a taste of their own medicine ;-)

Do YOU not understand that the SNP's big moment had come, yes it was there, debate after debate, BUT,....the SNP had NO answers to the BIG questions, NOTHING......WHY NOT.

Now we have folk like yourself fluffing around with words that mean naff all.

SNP is to blame for their own failure. End of story.

[jpinx]

I do wonder if I am posting in plain enough English! ;-) The SNP exists ONLY for independence and won by a landslide in the election that Westminster didn't interfere with. Don't imagine for a minute that 1.5 million-odd Scots are going to just shrug and go away. This is not the first or the last such vote!

Edited September 23, 2014 by jpinx

[transam]

I do wonder if I am posting in plain enough English! ;-) The SNP exists ONLY for independence and won by a landslide in the election that Westminster didn't interfere with. Don't imagine for a minute that 1.5 million-odd Scots are going to just shrug and go away. This is not the first or the last such vote!

So you reckon folk voted for the SNP on the one SINGLE ISSUE of Independence......

Gawd 'elp us.........

[joecoolfrog]

Jpinx

Well do you imagine that the 2 million Scottish Unionists and 40 milliion other UK residents are just going to sit back and be lectured by the SNP ?

[Franky Bear]

Most of us will be dead by the next time a vote is held. Only about 36% actually votes "YES"

Why? Because the ones that did not vote for what ever reason were in no way going to be YES voters. The Passion/Hate/Drive in the Yes camp was so deeply entrenched that the chances of any YES voters not going to the poll by hook or by crook is very slim. The ones that didn't vote would have votes NO if they had to legally. The YES camp need to accept it's over. The Scottish public voted overwhelmingly that we must maintain the Union.

The crap coming out from usually sane people is disturbing. My brother has been told by me to never contact me or my family again because of the crazy way he's reacted and we are a good normal down to earth small family.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Franky Bear

[nontabury]

Pretty much bang on the money. I actually thought Salmond would be gracious in defeat. I was wrong

Bitter alone, Salmond now a declared guerrilla leader in charge of government

Posted on September 22, 2014 by newsroom

A country whose First Minister is a agent of deliberate destabiisation has a constitutional problem on its hands.

First Minister Alex Salmond is clearly ‘Bitter Alone’ up in Strichen, with television cameras pretty well on call to record the evidence for the psychopathologists.

However, while one understands the constant mental thrashing around in despair and the endless rehearsing of events leading up to his defeat, Mr Salmond’s interminable intervention are much more than the meanderings of disappointment. They are intentionally destabilising of Scotland and the Union; and they are knowingly divisive, inexcusably targeting the vulnerable.

He threatens that a clear decision may be overset, disturbing Scotland’s recovery from trauma and the United Kingdom’s will to settle into the serious work of addressing the necessary constitutional reform.

The First Minister performed two shockingly irresponsible manoeuvres in yesterday’s interview with Sky News. A unilateral declaration of independence

Mr Salmond floated the possibility of an independence simply declared by parliamentary edict by a majority administration at Holyrood.

To be openly considering such a thing is to admit that this is the only way Scotland can ever be taken to independence – against the wishes of the majority if its population. This is the perspective of a fully fledged autocracy, not a democracy.

However, such an action is constitutionally impossible.

Constitutional authority is reserved to Westminster which remains the principal power in such matters. There would be no legal constitutional legitimacy in such a move. There is no possibility whatsoever, within any union, of constitutional powers residing anywhere but in the central government of the Union.

Independence could simply be declared - unconstitutionally – by a majority administration at Holyrood - but it would be a UDI, a unilateral declaration of independence – a lark the ego-driven Mr Salmon may well, in his despair, be considering.

For an elected First Minister responsible for the stable government of a mature democracy – who has just lost a national referendum by a clear majority and with only four of the thirty two local authority areas of the country supporting it – to float this sort of suggestion is indefensible.

Scotland is now in the surreal constitutional position of having a declared guerrilla leader in official political power. And Mr Salmond’s deputy, Nicola Sturgeon, when she takes command, will follow her master’s voice.

UDI means ‘We’re off”. There would be no settlement of any kind between the United Kingdom and a Scotland declaring UDI.

There would be no inherited share of national debt and there would be no share of assets of any kind. A government that took such an action following the clear decision of a national democratic referendum with so high a turnout, would create a rogue state.

Scotland would find borrowing rates – if borrowing could be had – impossibly high.

The financial institutions would be gone at the speed of light – anyone who imagines that their survival contingency plans have been torn up is unimaginably naive, They are waiting to see how this clear decision of Scotland is accepted in what ought to be an adult democracy.

The oil industry would be off, and an abruptly independent Scotland would be left with the forest of decaying junk in the North Sea, much of it already well overdue for decommissioning.

The engine of Aberdeen would peter to a halt – and that is the front garden of the constituency Mr Salmond hopes to continue to represent. Good luck with that one, First Minister, if you’re hatching UDI.

Scotland would go overnight from being part of the landscape of international politics to being a car crash on the lunatic fringe.

Mr Salmond told Sky that referenda are ‘only one of a number of routes’ to independence; that ‘the writing is on the wall’ for the Union; and that ‘I think the destination is pretty certain, we are only now debating the timescale and the method.’

He touted a ‘gradualist; approach to independence. saying: ‘…you establish a parliament, you establish successfully more powers until you have a situation where you’re independent in all but name and then presumably you declare yourself to be independent. Many countries have proceeded through that route.’

This alerts Scotland to the fact that the nationalists must never get anywhere near power in this country again. They would be manipulating the levers of government from within – as they have already done – as ‘sleepers’, preparing for the day when they would throw off their clothes, reveal the metaphorical combat gear and AK 47s and simply make Scotland independent.

This is Mr Salmiond’s now declared vision of Plan B – and it is clinically unhinged as the intention of an elected First Minister of a democratic country which has just clearly expressed its contrary wishes. Demonising older citizens

If that is the political timebomb the First Minister launched yesterday, he also began a deliberate attempt to set Scotland’s young people against their seniors.

He blamed older people for his defeat – since, with the wisdom of their experience of life and their accumulated expertise, they were the inconvenient seekers of answers he did not have to the most fundamentally serious questions.

Now Mr Salmond is deliberately attempting to make those people the target of the anger of the disappointed youth whose laudable but unrealistic dreams of an unfunded nirvana he cynically fostered for his own partisan electoral ends.

He told Sky: ‘When you have a situation where the majority of a country up to the age of 55 is already voting for independence then I think the writing is on the wall for Westminster.’

This points the finger at his perceived ‘culprits’ and reassures that they’ll die off anyway.

Peddling this irresponsible social inflammation of generational opposition is knowingly to propel the older part of the demography into the firing line of the hotheads, leaving the more vulnerable to live in continuing fear.

It is also blind to the fact that there is always another generation of 55+ people on the way up; and that, since the fundamental reality of life is that age is the accumulator of experience, expertise and knowledge, there will always be cooler heads to counter the life enhancing impetuosity of youth. It is that balance of energy and experience that allows a country to reach stable and constructive overall decisions, as Scotland has done. A danger

Here we may have a profoundly disappointed man but his bullying and totalitarian character make him dangerous in his despair; in his teenage romantic hatred of ‘England’; and in his need to find a handy scapegoat for a loss driven by a dishonest and unable independence prospectus for which he and his Deputy First Minister were responsible.

Neither of them had the grace to turn up at St Giles in Edinburgh last night for a reconciliation service. This is the truth of their position. Their intent is retribution, victimisation and UDI, not reconciliation, not healing, not the declared ‘acceptance’ of the democratic decision or the willingness ‘to work with anybody’ in ‘Team Scotland’.

http://forargyll.com/2014/09/bitter-alone-salmond-now-a-declared-guerrilla-leader-in-charge-of-government/

Well if this is true then Alex Salmonds deserves hanging, what he is basically suggesting is more division between the people of Scotland. What this will lead to is another Northern Island situation?

In all these threads about Scotland I have never personalised this issue as being a Alex Salmonds problem, always aiming my criticism at the Nationalist as a whole, while others have called AS everything from being full of his own ego to being a mega maniac, well it seems those critics have been proven correct. How any reasonable and intelligent Scot can continue to vote for the SNP, while AS is still a member is beyond me.

[sandyf]

Fortunately column inches don't make for any greater truth. One totally fundamental point was missed by that post.. That SNP has since it was born declared itself to independence for Scotland. On that platform they won the overall majority in the Scottish parliament by a landslide. The fact that Westminster has managed to derail the referendum is only a small setback. Westminster are via guerillas now. Let's see how they like a taste of their own medicine ;-)

In 1974 the SNP sent 11 ministers to Westminster, by 1979 they had lost a great deal of support. At a time when the oil boom was talking off the SNP was losing support, something that should have been considered during the campaign. In 1982, Alex Salmond was expelled from the SNP along with the other members of the 79 Group.

I have never been a great believer in leopards changing spots.

[Franky Bear]

Well if this is true then Alex Salmonds deserves hanging, what he is basically suggesting is more division between the people of Scotland. What this will lead to is another Northern Island situation?

In all these threads about Scotland I have never personalised this issue as being a Alex Salmonds problem, always aiming my criticism at the Nationalist as a whole, while others have called AS everything from being full of his own ego to being a mega maniac, well it seems those critics have been proven correct. How any reasonable and intelligent Scot can continue to vote for the SNP, while AS is still a member is beyond me.

Mate, i have semi stayed out of this thread on here on purpose. AS is a dangerous dangerous man. I have always said elsewhere this is about his ego.

I totally understand why people want Indy and there may come a time i'd support it.

This was not the right time to go for it

Why do i say that? Because the world is a very messed up place right now. The world is still financially unstable and i feel we will wake up one morning to another stock crash of sorts (i know others think like that), we have the Terror problem and the new threat of some sort of long drawn out middle east conflict. Both of these two issues had to be taken into account when putting your X on the card

People are uncomfortable, so to ask people with the world in this state to make a huge decision was wrong. You were never going to get what i'd call a "pure answer" from the man on the street. We have one eye on the rest of the world instead of concentrating on home grown issues.

I said from day one there was absolutely no way the Scottish public would vote yes, and believe it or not said the difference would be 10%+ and i was right.

Salmond is a clever man, very clever, he wanted this YES vote to go through no matter what, and what an absolute mess he made of it. The devastation and broken Scotland he's left behind is sad as hell to see. The worse is he's changed highly intelligent people, to the normal man on the street with a lot of common sense into something they are not. Nasty vicious people, i find that so sad. They need time away to calm down, sadly i can't see it happening for a lot of them.

No matter though, by this time next year he will have 2-3 more million in the bank from his University and business tours giving expensive talks.

I absolutely and totally hate him with every bone in my body and will celebrate his passing

Edited September 23, 2014 by Franky Bear

[jpinx]

Very sad for the little Englanders who wish any single person dead. This has never been about any one politician, it's only about the SNP who were voted into power by a landslide on the promise of Independence.

Westminster has a history of keeping the fringes of UK under control by the "divide and conquer" system. It worked well in Wales, but there's rumblings now which might show that the Welsh are not done with yet. When England was divided into regions and districts - who benefitted? Was it not the Westminster politicans who now had much fewer individual authorities to deal with, but the budget for doing that "lesser" job went up and up -- year after year.

Catalonia has a huge problem now to overcome a highly resistive central government and I would not be surprised if there were not conversations between the Catalonian politicans and the SNP as to how to accomplish their aims. Even Thailand supposedly sent an observer, but judging from the posted photos there was time for him to absorb some "Scottish-ness"

Edited September 23, 2014 by jpinx

[transam]

Very sad for the little Englanders who wish any single person dead. This has never been about any one politician, it's only about the SNP who were voted into power by a landslide on the promise of Independence.

Westminster has a history of keeping the fringes of UK under control by the "divide and conquer" system. It worked well in Wales, but there's rumblings now which might show that the Welsh are not done with yet. When England was divided into regions and districts - who benefitted? Was it not the Westminster politicans who now had much fewer individual authorities to dealk with, but the budget for doing that "lesser" job went up and up -- year after year.

Catalonia has a huge problem now to overcome a highly resistive central government and I would not be surprised if there were not conversations between the Catalonian politicans and the SNP as to how to accomplish their aims. Even Thailand supposedly sent an observer, but judging from the posted photos there was time for him to absorb some "Scottish-ness"

Fink your living a few centuries back, TODAY.......

Tell me, you say the SNP was voted in by a landslide so Scotland would become Independent.

What went wrong then, when the big occasions took place for that to happen. ?

PLEASE DO NOT say folk were told lies by Westminster at the last minute cos folk like you have been telling Scots Westminster has been telling lies for decades.....

[jpinx]

Very sad for the little Englanders who wish any single person dead. This has never been about any one politician, it's only about the SNP who were voted into power by a landslide on the promise of Independence.

Westminster has a history of keeping the fringes of UK under control by the "divide and conquer" system. It worked well in Wales, but there's rumblings now which might show that the Welsh are not done with yet. When England was divided into regions and districts - who benefitted? Was it not the Westminster politicans who now had much fewer individual authorities to dealk with, but the budget for doing that "lesser" job went up and up -- year after year.

Catalonia has a huge problem now to overcome a highly resistive central government and I would not be surprised if there were not conversations between the Catalonian politicans and the SNP as to how to accomplish their aims. Even Thailand supposedly sent an observer, but judging from the posted photos there was time for him to absorb some "Scottish-ness"

Fink your living a few centuries back, TODAY.......

Tell me, you say the SNP was voted in by a landslide so Scotland would become Independent.

What went wrong then, when the big occasions took place for that to happen. ?

PLEASE DO NOT say folk were told lies by Westminster at the last minute cos folk like you have been telling Scots Westminster has been telling lies for decades.....

So sorry you focus on Scotland when I am actually talking about the principles of the right of a people to be independent

[Franky Bear]

I cringe when i see the Nationalist say "Real Scotts" Insinuating that people that myself are not a real Scotsman.

Sad really but this is what that evil man Salmond has left behind

[transam]

Very sad for the little Englanders who wish any single person dead. This has never been about any one politician, it's only about the SNP who were voted into power by a landslide on the promise of Independence.

Westminster has a history of keeping the fringes of UK under control by the "divide and conquer" system. It worked well in Wales, but there's rumblings now which might show that the Welsh are not done with yet. When England was divided into regions and districts - who benefitted? Was it not the Westminster politicans who now had much fewer individual authorities to dealk with, but the budget for doing that "lesser" job went up and up -- year after year.

Catalonia has a huge problem now to overcome a highly resistive central government and I would not be surprised if there were not conversations between the Catalonian politicans and the SNP as to how to accomplish their aims. Even Thailand supposedly sent an observer, but judging from the posted photos there was time for him to absorb some "Scottish-ness"

Fink your living a few centuries back, TODAY.......

Tell me, you say the SNP was voted in by a landslide so Scotland would become Independent.

What went wrong then, when the big occasions took place for that to happen. ?

PLEASE DO NOT say folk were told lies by Westminster at the last minute cos folk like you have been telling Scots Westminster has been telling lies for decades.....

So sorry you focus on Scotland when I am actually talking about the principles of the right of a people to be independent

Velly solly, my mistake, thought this was the Scots Indy thread........

BUT, as a true YES guy you dodged my question, seems you all do that........

[MJP]

Most of us will be dead by the next time a vote is held. Only about 36% actually votes "YES"

Why? Because the ones that did not vote for what ever reason were in no way going to be YES voters. The Passion/Hate/Drive in the Yes camp was so deeply entrenched that the chances of any YES voters not going to the poll by hook or by crook is very slim. The ones that didn't vote would have votes NO if they had to legally. The YES camp need to accept it's over. The Scottish public voted overwhelmingly that we must maintain the Union.

The crap coming out from usually sane people is disturbing. My brother has been told by me to never contact me or my family again because of the crazy way he's reacted and we are a good normal down to earth small family.

Don't let this nonsense break up your family, there's no point. It's only about imaginary lines on a map. Countries don't actually exist whatever anyone says. It's all a mass delusion.