Scottish referendum: Salmond to quit after Scots vote No

[billd766]

Salmond can retire and wait to see what happens next. He will never give up - only pause and watch how the cards fall in the next year or so. If Westminster are not seen as delivering on the promises recently made -- regardless of who's in power -- expect more independence rumblings.

I saw an interesting comment that blamed the pensioners in Scotland for tipping the vote into a NO, but I haven't been able to substantiate it. It might explain why Salmond extended the age limit downwards. If the same happens next time the YES result should be more achieveable.

Indeed - it's not "...if..." it's only "...when..."

Meantime Catalonia will have resolved the methods of becoming independent and getting into the EU

Salmond let 16 and 17 year olds vote, he let immigants to Scotland vote but he refused to let expat Scots in the other parts of the UK vote.

Having stacked everything he could in his favour he still lost 55.7% to 44.3%

[jpinx]

Salmond can retire and wait to see what happens next. He will never give up - only pause and watch how the cards fall in the next year or so. If Westminster are not seen as delivering on the promises recently made -- regardless of who's in power -- expect more independence rumblings.

I saw an interesting comment that blamed the pensioners in Scotland for tipping the vote into a NO, but I haven't been able to substantiate it. It might explain why Salmond extended the age limit downwards. If the same happens next time the YES result should be more achieveable.

Indeed - it's not "...if..." it's only "...when..."

Meantime Catalonia will have resolved the methods of becoming independent and getting into the EU

Salmond let 16 and 17 year olds vote, he let immigants to Scotland vote but he refused to let expat Scots in the other parts of the UK vote.

Having stacked everything he could in his favour he still lost 55.7% to 44.3%

You'd need to find the numbers but I believe there were about 100,000 under-18's voted and about the same in resident "foreigners". Any Scot who was out of the country could easily arrange a postal vote, assuming he is still on the electoral roll. Any Scot who had left and is not on the electoral roll has already abandoned his country and doesn't deserve a vote anyway

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/7-fascinating-insights-into-why-scotland-voted-against-indep

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29255449

Edited September 20, 2014 by jpinx

[transam]

Salmond can retire and wait to see what happens next. He will never give up - only pause and watch how the cards fall in the next year or so. If Westminster are not seen as delivering on the promises recently made -- regardless of who's in power -- expect more independence rumblings.

I saw an interesting comment that blamed the pensioners in Scotland for tipping the vote into a NO, but I haven't been able to substantiate it. It might explain why Salmond extended the age limit downwards. If the same happens next time the YES result should be more achieveable.

Indeed - it's not "...if..." it's only "...when..."

Meantime Catalonia will have resolved the methods of becoming independent and getting into the EU

Salmond let 16 and 17 year olds vote, he let immigants to Scotland vote but he refused to let expat Scots in the other parts of the UK vote.

Having stacked everything he could in his favour he still lost 55.7% to 44.3%

You'd need to find the numbers but I believe there were about 100,000 under-18's voted and about the same in resident "foreigners". Any Scot who was out of the country could easily arrange a postal vote, assuming he is still on the electoral roll. Any Scot who had left and is not on the electoral roll has already abandoned his country and doesn't deserve a vote anyway

Total rolox...............Blimey, and your a toughy Scot eh...........Gawd 'elp you Scots with this bloke in the YES camp............

[jpinx]

Salmond can retire and wait to see what happens next. He will never give up - only pause and watch how the cards fall in the next year or so. If Westminster are not seen as delivering on the promises recently made -- regardless of who's in power -- expect more independence rumblings.

I saw an interesting comment that blamed the pensioners in Scotland for tipping the vote into a NO, but I haven't been able to substantiate it. It might explain why Salmond extended the age limit downwards. If the same happens next time the YES result should be more achieveable.

Indeed - it's not "...if..." it's only "...when..."

Meantime Catalonia will have resolved the methods of becoming independent and getting into the EU

Salmond let 16 and 17 year olds vote, he let immigants to Scotland vote but he refused to let expat Scots in the other parts of the UK vote.

Having stacked everything he could in his favour he still lost 55.7% to 44.3%

You'd need to find the numbers but I believe there were about 100,000 under-18's voted and about the same in resident "foreigners". Any Scot who was out of the country could easily arrange a postal vote, assuming he is still on the electoral roll. Any Scot who had left and is not on the electoral roll has already abandoned his country and doesn't deserve a vote anyway

Total rolox...............Blimey, and your a toughy Scot eh...........Gawd 'elp you Scots with this bloke in the YES camp............

which bit didn't you like ?

[Baerboxer]

What i like about his resignation is that it suggests two things:

1. What i just wrote about - him screwing labour out of regaining their lost votes by falling on his sword (note to Little Englanders of the forum: his decision had nothing to do with losing the election, it was about consolidating the gains the SNP had made in formerly impenetrable labour strongholds).

2, What you just wrote - he'll be back, but in the same role that Brown played in this one. As soon as the next referendum comes (assuming labour and the tories put devo max on the back benches, its more a when, not if), he'll be out there making the case but as the elder statesman rather than the firebrand leader. It will be more effective for it.

Salmond is a brilliantly strategic thinker. He's a step ahead of the game almost all the time. He looked ragged in that last week. But until Brown stepped in with a positive vision, he was barely breaking a sweat. In fact it was just the sheer effort of mobilising a grassroots campaign that did him in. But the networks are now there and the infrastructure is built. He will have learned a lot and he will take it on board for round 2 when he comes back.

On that third point: Brown and Devo max. Again. I really think Brown wound them up a bit. He had his eyes right on one thing: a national left of center social democratic labour government in the UK. The frenzy of the Little Englanders on this forum for greater powers for England must be music to his ears. You cant make an omelette... England already has all the say in the economic direction of this country... and theyre actually agreeing to devolution and putting in place the mechanisms for the diffusion of power? Its hilarious watching them think this is in England's (well, the South East of England's) benefit. Long may they keep at it. The south east in its ire on the west loathian question and the Barnett formula are sacrificing their queen (westminster and south east controlled politics) for the sake of a couple of pawns. To do it they have to talk about the deprivation IN ENGLAND created by Westminster government policy which will only foster the resentment the North East already has for Westminster politics. Its so self-destructive, youd have to be incredibly stupid to fall for it. And they are. Again, Brown, a step ahead.

Nice try. Put a positive "win" spin on defeat. Losing this referendum was all part of King Alex master plan to fool everyone. Worked out well then.

Devious, crafty, scheming, manipulative, with good acting abilities and the gift of the gab - sure is. No one would survive in politics at this level without such skills.

The majority of people have voted to express their view. There can't be continuing referendum's until you get the result you want. If so why would a yes vote be conclusive - just because you want it? Then how many years do you wait to hold another to see if the majority would like to rejoin?

Salmond has supported an independent Scotland for most his life. It's is raison d'etre. He knew this was his final chance. He will continue to be a thorn in everyone's side whilst he chooses to do so. He has managed to manipulate a position where 5 million were allowed to vote on the future of 65 million whilst 60 million were given no voice. Scotland isn't the powerhouse of the UK, far from it. Those who voted no did so out of reason and it's an insult to suggest otherwise. Salmond looked devastated.

Clown Cameron, hopefully, will be a casualty of this too, thanks to his autocratic arrogant style of leadership. Clegg and Milliband showed just how hopeless they are.Brown - does he really think people will forget how he and his mate Blair completely f%^ked the UK? Great of him for sell off the gold reserves cheap and build a massive debt, and of course relaxing the laws and rules controlling those nice bankers. Gordon "the days of feast and famine are over for good" Brown - a statement made how long before the 2008 financial crash?

I hope there are significant changes thanks to all this.

Maybe England, Wales and Northern Ireland should now have a referendum to ask if they want Scotland to be allowed to stay. I joke, because that would be grossly unfair to all those proud, intelligent Scots who had absolutely no wish to leave the Union, or see a country governed by Chief Salmond and his clan.

[Baerboxer]

Salmond can retire and wait to see what happens next. He will never give up - only pause and watch how the cards fall in the next year or so. If Westminster are not seen as delivering on the promises recently made -- regardless of who's in power -- expect more independence rumblings.

I saw an interesting comment that blamed the pensioners in Scotland for tipping the vote into a NO, but I haven't been able to substantiate it. It might explain why Salmond extended the age limit downwards. If the same happens next time the YES result should be more achieveable.

Indeed - it's not "...if..." it's only "...when..."

Meantime Catalonia will have resolved the methods of becoming independent and getting into the EU

Salmond let 16 and 17 year olds vote, he let immigants to Scotland vote but he refused to let expat Scots in the other parts of the UK vote.

Having stacked everything he could in his favour he still lost 55.7% to 44.3%

Now some of the SNP and pro-independence supporters are claiming the result was all down to the media influence not being fair to them, the big business leaders being against them, and even the Queen's comments.

Of course, it couldn't be that others think differently, saw through the BS, and that they themselves may be wrong. Absolutely not.

I also saw someone post on Fb from youtube a clip that claimed all the vote counting was rigged.

At least Salmond has, so far, had the dignity not to join in with all this nonsense. Interesting to see if Sturgeon will as I suspect she'll be claiming it's all so unfair soon.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Baerboxer

[jpinx]

What i like about his resignation is that it suggests two things:

1. What i just wrote about - him screwing labour out of regaining their lost votes by falling on his sword (note to Little Englanders of the forum: his decision had nothing to do with losing the election, it was about consolidating the gains the SNP had made in formerly impenetrable labour strongholds).

2, What you just wrote - he'll be back, but in the same role that Brown played in this one. As soon as the next referendum comes (assuming labour and the tories put devo max on the back benches, its more a when, not if), he'll be out there making the case but as the elder statesman rather than the firebrand leader. It will be more effective for it.

Salmond is a brilliantly strategic thinker. He's a step ahead of the game almost all the time. He looked ragged in that last week. But until Brown stepped in with a positive vision, he was barely breaking a sweat. In fact it was just the sheer effort of mobilising a grassroots campaign that did him in. But the networks are now there and the infrastructure is built. He will have learned a lot and he will take it on board for round 2 when he comes back.

On that third point: Brown and Devo max. Again. I really think Brown wound them up a bit. He had his eyes right on one thing: a national left of center social democratic labour government in the UK. The frenzy of the Little Englanders on this forum for greater powers for England must be music to his ears. You cant make an omelette... England already has all the say in the economic direction of this country... and theyre actually agreeing to devolution and putting in place the mechanisms for the diffusion of power? Its hilarious watching them think this is in England's (well, the South East of England's) benefit. Long may they keep at it. The south east in its ire on the west loathian question and the Barnett formula are sacrificing their queen (westminster and south east controlled politics) for the sake of a couple of pawns. To do it they have to talk about the deprivation IN ENGLAND created by Westminster government policy which will only foster the resentment the North East already has for Westminster politics. Its so self-destructive, youd have to be incredibly stupid to fall for it. And they are. Again, Brown, a step ahead.

Nice try. Put a positive "win" spin on defeat. Losing this referendum was all part of King Alex master plan to fool everyone. Worked out well then.

Devious, crafty, scheming, manipulative, with good acting abilities and the gift of the gab - sure is. No one would survive in politics at this level without such skills.

The majority of people have voted to express their view. There can't be continuing referendum's until you get the result you want. If so why would a yes vote be conclusive - just because you want it? Then how many years do you wait to hold another to see if the majority would like to rejoin?

Salmond has supported an independent Scotland for most his life. It's is raison d'etre. He knew this was his final chance. He will continue to be a thorn in everyone's side whilst he chooses to do so. He has managed to manipulate a position where 5 million were allowed to vote on the future of 65 million whilst 60 million were given no voice. Scotland isn't the powerhouse of the UK, far from it. Those who voted no did so out of reason and it's an insult to suggest otherwise. Salmond looked devastated.

Clown Cameron, hopefully, will be a casualty of this too, thanks to his autocratic arrogant style of leadership. Clegg and Milliband showed just how hopeless they are.Brown - does he really think people will forget how he and his mate Blair completely f%^ked the UK? Great of him for sell off the gold reserves cheap and build a massive debt, and of course relaxing the laws and rules controlling those nice bankers. Gordon "the days of feast and famine are over for good" Brown - a statement made how long before the 2008 financial crash?

I hope there are significant changes thanks to all this.

Maybe England, Wales and Northern Ireland should now have a referendum to ask if they want Scotland to be allowed to stay. I joke, because that would be grossly unfair to all those proud, intelligent Scots who had absolutely no wish to leave the Union, or see a country governed by Chief Salmond and his clan.

The SNP'sr intention is for an independent Scotland. That is unlikely to change and another referendum is on the cards in ten years or so. The demographics will have changed, the political parties will have re-aligned themselves, Westminster will be a mere observer of Scottish affairs after DevoMax is implemented. The campaigns will be much clearer and the issues properly covered in detail. The vote will be for an independent Scotland with a full Scottish Parliament with the Queen as head of state - similar to Oz, NZ, Canada, et al - no need to split the union of the crowns - only the union of the governments.

Catalan will get there first Maybe Belgium will resolve it's problems too -- ironically since it is home to Brussels and the EU. There is no need for so many layers of government, Westminster governing Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland is an anachronism - a legacy from history - and it's time to change that. Westminster can govern England, but let the rest of the countries do their own thing.

[inutil]

Salmond was gutted. Of course. He worked his ass off. But your interpretation of what i wrote was wide of the mark. The win spin is not that salmond wanted to lose the referendum. But was that AFTER he had lost, the decision was made to lock down SNP strongholds in the former labour strongholds of Glasgow and the regions around it.

He wasnt going to personally be able to do it because a resurgent gordon brown would probably have turned that tide back against him. He is still divisive, and no matter how well loved he is now, as the leader of the SNP he'd just lose momentum. (I say probably because my mam posted up a petition the other day with a picture of gordon brown calling him a traitor to scotland and asking for signatures). So he fell on his sword. Not because he lost the referendum. He fell on his sword so that the SNP could consolidate their gains, and keep the pressure on Westminster to deliver or force through another referendum.

Not in the next SPE in 2016... those will be built around holding Westminster to account, but in the 2020ish election, we might see it rear its head again. Which puts a vote thereafter sometime around 2024. Ah, the space age! No doubt if the SNP or the relevant party come to decide the day, they might pick September 18th if they felt they were betrayed by Westminster promises. Should the promises of course be delivered on, then i see absolutely no political will for a second bite. So thats the question...

As for england not getting a vote, honestly. If scotland wants to leave the union, thats for scotland to decide. We're not here in chains, we're in the union by a legal compact and thats it. Though we are not in chains, allowing the English the majority vote in deciding whether even allow scotland permission to consider leaving the Union might very well be forcing those chains on us. It can also be reasonably argued as well that the English people voted in Cameron who made that choice on their behalf as their elected representative. As such, again, if you dont like this agreement pr feel he over stepped his remit, please feel free to kick him out next year.

In addition, if England wants to have its own referendum and leave the union, it need only set up its own parliament, and have a party with a referendum in its manifesto win convincingly in any election. Theres nothing at all stopping England doing this except (i suspect) the complete lack of political will to do so. I certainly wont be calling for Scottish people to also vote in the referendum. England is not in chains to Scotland. If it wants to break up the union, it has my most express thanks.

Edited September 20, 2014 by inutil

[cacruden]

Salmond was gutted. Of course. He worked his ass off. But your interpretation of what i wrote was wide of the mark. The win spin is not that salmond wanted to lose the referendum. But was that AFTER he had lost, the decision was made to lock down SNP strongholds in the former labour strongholds of Glasgow and the regions around it.

He wasnt going to personally be able to do it because a resurgent gordon brown would probably have turned that tide back against him. He is still divisive, and no matter how well loved he is now, as the leader of the SNP he'd just lose momentum.

It works differently than in Quebec, the separatist party tends rise in the polls and separatist support falls, then they are out and the separatist sentiment rises sort of opposite to what you would expect. What it really boils down to is Quebec does not like to put all its eggs in one basket.

[cacruden]

Unfortunately now the Scottish government will have to negotiate with the feds on "devo max" from a point of weakness. If they had voted for separation they can come to the table from a point of strength. It would be in neithers interest to disrupt trade/cash since doing so would harm the entire economy - and if that happens whatever party is sitting in power gets held responsible.

[billd766]

Salmond can retire and wait to see what happens next. He will never give up - only pause and watch how the cards fall in the next year or so. If Westminster are not seen as delivering on the promises recently made -- regardless of who's in power -- expect more independence rumblings.

I saw an interesting comment that blamed the pensioners in Scotland for tipping the vote into a NO, but I haven't been able to substantiate it. It might explain why Salmond extended the age limit downwards. If the same happens next time the YES result should be more achieveable.

Indeed - it's not "...if..." it's only "...when..."

Meantime Catalonia will have resolved the methods of becoming independent and getting into the EU

Salmond let 16 and 17 year olds vote, he let immigants to Scotland vote but he refused to let expat Scots in the other parts of the UK vote.

Having stacked everything he could in his favour he still lost 55.7% to 44.3%

Now some of the SNP and pro-independence supporters are claiming the result was all down to the media influence not being fair to them, the big business leaders being against them, and even the Queen's comments.

Of course, it couldn't be that others think differently, saw through the BS, and that they themselves may be wrong. Absolutely not.

I also saw someone post on Fb from youtube a clip that claimed all the vote counting was rigged.

At least Salmond has, so far, had the dignity not to join in with all this nonsense. Interesting to see if Sturgeon will as I suspect she'll be claiming it's all so unfair soon.

That was yesterday afternoon.

Today however...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29296130

He just can't or won't let go.

HE lost but despite his mealy mouthed words he can't let go and admit that HE and the yes voters lost and accept defeat gracefully.

[jpinx]

Salmond can retire and wait to see what happens next. He will never give up - only pause and watch how the cards fall in the next year or so. If Westminster are not seen as delivering on the promises recently made -- regardless of who's in power -- expect more independence rumblings.

I saw an interesting comment that blamed the pensioners in Scotland for tipping the vote into a NO, but I haven't been able to substantiate it. It might explain why Salmond extended the age limit downwards. If the same happens next time the YES result should be more achieveable.

Indeed - it's not "...if..." it's only "...when..."

Meantime Catalonia will have resolved the methods of becoming independent and getting into the EU

Salmond let 16 and 17 year olds vote, he let immigants to Scotland vote but he refused to let expat Scots in the other parts of the UK vote.

Having stacked everything he could in his favour he still lost 55.7% to 44.3%

Now some of the SNP and pro-independence supporters are claiming the result was all down to the media influence not being fair to them, the big business leaders being against them, and even the Queen's comments.

Of course, it couldn't be that others think differently, saw through the BS, and that they themselves may be wrong. Absolutely not.

I also saw someone post on Fb from youtube a clip that claimed all the vote counting was rigged.

At least Salmond has, so far, had the dignity not to join in with all this nonsense. Interesting to see if Sturgeon will as I suspect she'll be claiming it's all so unfair soon.

That was yesterday afternoon.

Today however...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29296130

He just can't or won't let go.

HE lost but despite his mealy mouthed words he can't let go and admit that HE and the yes voters lost and accept defeat gracefully.

Such bilious postings are not helpful in resolving the differences between the various points of view

[bendejo]

Will there be a re-enactment of the last 20 minutes of Braveheart with Salmond on the block?

[siampolee]

Well whatever the outcome we can all be assured that Salmond feathered his own nest as did his cronies too.It was nothing more than a massive ego trip and a financial venture to enhance a select group of people.

[Keesters]

As far as I can see, Salmond got exactly what he hoped for - Devo Max. Hardly a loser.

Will he? Perhaps Westminster will renege on its promises. It's been known to before.

[billd766]

He is still whining and blaming everybody else for what happened.

If he would just accept the referendum vote and be quiet he may get a little respect.