English accent reduction

[rajyindee]

Which American culture? Afro-American? Hispanic? European? Asian? They certainly don't seem to have a preference for American sports or fashion, although they do seem to like pizza, albeit Thai style, and the military seems to have lots of American guns. I did notice that they do like some American singers (at least ones with white skin), but they seem to like a lot of K-Pop as well. I'm sure there must be more, I just can't think of any ...

Maybe KFC, McDonalds, CocaCola and Hollywood Movies - if any of these can be loosely described as 'culture' in the US

The food and drink joints are just a result of globalisation, not really a preference for American culture, IMHO. Foodwise, looking round the malls, I'd say their preference is currently for Japanese scoff. As for Hollywood movies ... are they actually American culture? - obviously the bombing and shooting action movies are, but the likes of The Hobbit and Harry Potter don't seem to have much to do with American culture per se ... they're just made by American studios.

[JingerBen]

Agreed. Once, on holiday in Bali, a local told me that even with out north east accents, we were easier to understand than Aussies. No idea why that would be, but he had no reason to lie about it, nothing to gain or favours to be bought. Always struck me as rather odd though. Irish is OK, Bog Irish is very hard, I think maybe even for other Irish.

This new form of speaking from the lower socio-economic groups in America is something I find difficult also - I'm talking about the high class types who go on Jerry Springer etc. Not the Afro-Americans specifically, because there are plenty of people a lot whiter than me speaking in the same manner. In their case, it's more fashion and fitting in than anything else, but it is difficult. And I have to say I've never met anyone in real life who speaks that way, although I had a laugh at the expense of the English equivalent.

A few years ago, I asked a young bloke, late teens or early twenties for directions, and in front of his friend he kind of told me in the heaviest gangster Jamaican accent you could imagine - again, whiter than white, full Anglo-Saxon if that is your preferred term (I hope I didn't offend any of the PC brigade by referring to whites speaking like the people of other ethic origin than Caucasian (not so sure how I refer to people who's ethnicity is originally African nowadays, so I'll give it a miss) because offence is not what I intended and I wholeheartedly and genuinely apologies I have). I asked him where he lived, he said Stainthorpe so I hammed up the Yorkshire accent as much as I could and said "Eee, bar eck. The dunt half talk funny darn Stainforth way naar". He was left a bit speechless, whilst his equally bad 'gangster' mates were trying not to snigger, knowing that they spoke in exactly the same way he did.

On the names thing, I have to say that when I first started high school in the mid 1970's, we called the West Indians Blacks, but by the time we left high school, they let us know that they didn't like to be called Black and wanted to be called Coloured. Fair enough, nobody wanted to do the wrong thing, even though we couldn't see why it mattered what we called them it obviously did to them so we all just went with it. I'm told now that Black is back in vogue as a general term and Coloured isn't seen as being very polite. (I can't verify this as we don't live there any more, and it's not something I've ever felt necessary to ask, and maybe it's a regional thing rather than national or it could have even been an American who told me that. I really can't remember, but it was here in Chiang Mai and it was recently; within the last couple of months).

"...it could have been an American that told me that."

Be careful what kind of Americans you talk to here. Many of them don't know their a** from their elbow.

As a kid growing up in the USA during the 1950s, African-Americans were called "colored", or "negroes", by most people. Only southern rednecks, lo-class northerners, and us kids would call them ni**ers - "Catch a ni**er by the toe, if he hollers let him go..." etc., etc.

The 1960s brought radical changes of many kinds - suddenly it became "cool" to be black, or to have black friends; and that's what they wanted to be called... black.

"Colored" and "negro" became demeaning and associated with characters like Stepin Fetchit and their abject servility.

"African-American" came along in the early '70s and has continued - along with "black" - to be their preferred names. Although among themselves, the N-word is still in use.

[JingerBen]

Which American culture? Afro-American? Hispanic? European? Asian? They certainly don't seem to have a preference for American sports or fashion, although they do seem to like pizza, albeit Thai style, and the military seems to have lots of American guns. I did notice that they do like some American singers (at least ones with white skin), but they seem to like a lot of K-Pop as well. I'm sure there must be more, I just can't think of any ...

Maybe KFC, McDonalds, CocaCola and Hollywood Movies - if any of these can be loosely described as 'culture' in the US

The food and drink joints are just a result of globalisation, not really a preference for American culture, IMHO. Foodwise, looking round the malls, I'd say their preference is currently for Japanese scoff. As for Hollywood movies ... are they actually American culture? - obviously the bombing and shooting action movies are, but the likes of The Hobbit and Harry Potter don't seem to have much to do with American culture per se ... they're just made by American studios.

Nothing in the world could be more American than fast-food.

Although your visceral dislike of our pop-culture might make you want to barf it up.

[Ulysses G.]

Nothing in the world could be more American than fast-food.

Pretty much every country has fast food. That is all fried rice or ramen noodles are. However, it is fashionable these days to demonize the American variety.

[sustento]

Which American culture? Afro-American? Hispanic? European? Asian? They certainly don't seem to have a preference for American sports or fashion, although they do seem to like pizza, albeit Thai style, and the military seems to have lots of American guns. I did notice that they do like some American singers (at least ones with white skin), but they seem to like a lot of K-Pop as well. I'm sure there must be more, I just can't think of any ...

Maybe KFC, McDonalds, CocaCola and Hollywood Movies - if any of these can be loosely described as 'culture' in the US

The food and drink joints are just a result of globalisation, not really a preference for American culture, IMHO. Foodwise, looking round the malls, I'd say their preference is currently for Japanese scoff. As for Hollywood movies ... are they actually American culture? - obviously the bombing and shooting action movies are, but the likes of The Hobbit and Harry Potter don't seem to have much to do with American culture per se ... they're just made by American studios.

Nothing in the world could be more American than fast-food.

Apart from all those little street carts throughout Asia that have been cooking fast food before the USA even existed.

[JingerBen]

Nothing in the world could be more American than fast-food.

Pretty much every country has fast food. That is all fried rice or ramen noodles are. However, it is fashionable these days to demonize the American variety.

Yes, every country has its own fast food... but fried rice and noodles aren't what come to mind when "fast food" is mentioned.

It's the McDs, Starbucks, KFC's, BurgerKings, and all the others that are in-your-face on every streetcorner in every city in every developed country on the planet.

That's what comes to mind.

This obvious fact must be a perpetual irritant to those jealous little people who resent American pop-cultural dominance and its brash and deplorable influence worldwide.

[JDGRUEN]

What is a generic American accent? It is easy to find out ... just tune in any major American news broadcast - the 'talking heads' --- news presenters most all speak in a very unaccented American English... they practice it. I suppose it increases the likelihood of being understood by a wide ranging audience across America.. But - if you want to hear it - that is where you will find it.

I feel lucky that I have fairly unaccented speech since I was born in Kentucky and spent most of my adult life in Texas - both noted for accents. My stint in the Army probably caused my accent to mellow. In the military one is mixed in with people from all over America, I think the neutralization came about as an subconscious effort to be understood - a defense mechanism to keep from repeating yourself. After a number of years - it just becomes the way you speak.

[scottishjohn]

Unfortunately, Italian is one of the worst accents to have to listen to as a native English speaker (after Irish and Scottish ).

It depends of the person's accent, but agree that Irish and Scottish can be harder to understand than a non-native speaker. Anyone remember the Blether?

As 99.9%*of Scots speak English as their native language and only 1.1% of Scots can speak Gaelic, I think English can be said to be the Scot's native language!

*(I have allowed 0.1% for the very few (if any) Scots who do not speak English as I do not have that exact figure)

I noticed that my post was not very clear after I wrote it, but, unfortunately, it was too late to edit it. I meant that some Irish and Scottish ACCENTS (in English) can be harder to understand than some non-native speakers ACCENTS (in English).

Thank you for the clarification Ulysses. It now makes perfect sense and I totally agree with you. I would also include the dialects from many regions of England as well.

[scottishjohn]

What is a generic American accent? It is easy to find out ... just tune in any major American news broadcast - the 'talking heads' --- news presenters most all speak in a very unaccented American English... they practice it. I suppose it increases the likelihood of being understood by a wide ranging audience across America.. But - if you want to hear it - that is where you will find it.

I feel lucky that I have fairly unaccented speech since I was born in Kentucky and spent most of my adult life in Texas - both noted for accents. My stint in the Army probably caused my accent to mellow. In the military one is mixed in with people from all over America, I think the neutralization came about as an subconscious effort to be understood - a defense mechanism to keep from repeating yourself. After a number of years - it just becomes the way you speak.

"What is a generic American accent? It is easy to find out ... just tune in any major American news broadcast - the 'talking heads' --- news presenters most all speak in a very unaccented American English... they practice it. I suppose it increases the likelihood of being understood by a wide ranging audience across America.. But - if you want to hear it - that is where you will find it"

It is the same with the UK. Just tune into the BBC World service and all the accents are what we term 'Queens English' rather than regional accents.

I also agree with you over the Military life/living in various areas. I have done the same and have what is considered a fairly neutral, even if Scottish, accent.

[Saan]

My late wife was English and she always had a cut glass BBC accent (before regional accents were allowed on air). Whenever she returned home her family would say 'oh, you sound so Australian' which would have me rolling around on the floor. She sounded as Orstralian as the Queen.

[Konini]

My accent was (and remains) more cut coal than cut glass, and the first couple of times we phoned home after making the unbelievingly long 26 hour journey to the antipodes was met with "Why are you speaking like a baby?". Both sets of parents.

Taking more than a casual interest in linguistics, I noted almost straight away that we had both unconsciously slowed down our speech to make ourselves more widely understood, making it sound to our parents that we were doing baby-talk.

These incidents took my slightly more than casual interest in linguistics from there to where I am now, having read many, many books on the subject, something I still enjoy reading about.

[VillageIdiot]

Agreed. Once, on holiday in Bali, a local told me that even with out north east accents, we were easier to understand than Aussies. No idea why that would be, but he had no reason to lie about it, nothing to gain or favours to be bought. Always struck me as rather odd though. Irish is OK, Bog Irish is very hard, I think maybe even for other Irish.

This new form of speaking from the lower socio-economic groups in America is something I find difficult also - I'm talking about the high class types who go on Jerry Springer etc. Not the Afro-Americans specifically, because there are plenty of people a lot whiter than me speaking in the same manner. In their case, it's more fashion and fitting in than anything else, but it is difficult. And I have to say I've never met anyone in real life who speaks that way, although I had a laugh at the expense of the English equivalent.

A few years ago, I asked a young bloke, late teens or early twenties for directions, and in front of his friend he kind of told me in the heaviest gangster Jamaican accent you could imagine - again, whiter than white, full Anglo-Saxon if that is your preferred term (I hope I didn't offend any of the PC brigade by referring to whites speaking like the people of other ethic origin than Caucasian (not so sure how I refer to people who's ethnicity is originally African nowadays, so I'll give it a miss) because offence is not what I intended and I wholeheartedly and genuinely apologies I have). I asked him where he lived, he said Stainthorpe so I hammed up the Yorkshire accent as much as I could and said "Eee, bar eck. The dunt half talk funny darn Stainforth way naar". He was left a bit speechless, whilst his equally bad 'gangster' mates were trying not to snigger, knowing that they spoke in exactly the same way he did.

On the names thing, I have to say that when I first started high school in the mid 1970's, we called the West Indians Blacks, but by the time we left high school, they let us know that they didn't like to be called Black and wanted to be called Coloured. Fair enough, nobody wanted to do the wrong thing, even though we couldn't see why it mattered what we called them it obviously did to them so we all just went with it. I'm told now that Black is back in vogue as a general term and Coloured isn't seen as being very polite. (I can't verify this as we don't live there any more, and it's not something I've ever felt necessary to ask, and maybe it's a regional thing rather than national or it could have even been an American who told me that. I really can't remember, but it was here in Chiang Mai and it was recently; within the last couple of months).

"...on holiday in Bali, a local told me that even with our north east accents we were easier to understand than Aussies."

The difficulty in understanding Australians is caused not only by their pronunciation but also in their propensity to change words and create peculiar phrases.

The underworld cant spoken by so many of the early settlers has - in modified forms - persisted and evolved in creative ways.

[Saan]

Agreed. Once, on holiday in Bali, a local told me that even with out north east accents, we were easier to understand than Aussies. No idea why that would be, but he had no reason to lie about it, nothing to gain or favours to be bought. Always struck me as rather odd though. Irish is OK, Bog Irish is very hard, I think maybe even for other Irish.

This new form of speaking from the lower socio-economic groups in America is something I find difficult also - I'm talking about the high class types who go on Jerry Springer etc. Not the Afro-Americans specifically, because there are plenty of people a lot whiter than me speaking in the same manner. In their case, it's more fashion and fitting in than anything else, but it is difficult. And I have to say I've never met anyone in real life who speaks that way, although I had a laugh at the expense of the English equivalent.

A few years ago, I asked a young bloke, late teens or early twenties for directions, and in front of his friend he kind of told me in the heaviest gangster Jamaican accent you could imagine - again, whiter than white, full Anglo-Saxon if that is your preferred term (I hope I didn't offend any of the PC brigade by referring to whites speaking like the people of other ethic origin than Caucasian (not so sure how I refer to people who's ethnicity is originally African nowadays, so I'll give it a miss) because offence is not what I intended and I wholeheartedly and genuinely apologies I have). I asked him where he lived, he said Stainthorpe so I hammed up the Yorkshire accent as much as I could and said "Eee, bar eck. The dunt half talk funny darn Stainforth way naar". He was left a bit speechless, whilst his equally bad 'gangster' mates were trying not to snigger, knowing that they spoke in exactly the same way he did.

On the names thing, I have to say that when I first started high school in the mid 1970's, we called the West Indians Blacks, but by the time we left high school, they let us know that they didn't like to be called Black and wanted to be called Coloured. Fair enough, nobody wanted to do the wrong thing, even though we couldn't see why it mattered what we called them it obviously did to them so we all just went with it. I'm told now that Black is back in vogue as a general term and Coloured isn't seen as being very polite. (I can't verify this as we don't live there any more, and it's not something I've ever felt necessary to ask, and maybe it's a regional thing rather than national or it could have even been an American who told me that. I really can't remember, but it was here in Chiang Mai and it was recently; within the last couple of months).

"...on holiday in Bali, a local told me that even with our north east accents we were easier to understand than Aussies."

The difficulty in understanding Australians is caused not only by their pronunciation but also in their propensity to change words and create peculiar phrases.

The underworld cant spoken by so many of the early settlers has - in modified forms - persisted and evolved in creative ways.

I often get mistaken for a Pom by Yanks - must be something to do with my convict ancestry. I have read that the Australian accent is most like Cockney.

[rajyindee]

"My english is perfect (and dare you challenge me! I speak English many many words)"

Is someone going to tell him/her?

That error was on purpose. I tried to paraphrase the "I speak English little bit" I heard here quite a bit. Now I got to prove I am not the father.....

What accent should i choose? Please carry no favors

I found that Native English speakers find it easier to understand me. Still mother tongue helps. The other disappointment is that some Thais have a far nicer accent that myself.

Maybe you could try speaking without your hands. As for accents, I'd go for a good Scottish brogue - more Connery than Shrek, though! The same applies to shoes.

[JingerBen]

What is a generic American accent? It is easy to find out ... just tune in any major American news broadcast - the 'talking heads' --- news presenters most all speak in a very unaccented American English... they practice it. I suppose it increases the likelihood of being understood by a wide ranging audience across America.. But - if you want to hear it - that is where you will find it.

I feel lucky that I have fairly unaccented speech since I was born in Kentucky and spent most of my adult life in Texas - both noted for accents. My stint in the Army probably caused my accent to mellow. In the military one is mixed in with people from all over America, I think the neutralization came about as an subconscious effort to be understood - a defense mechanism to keep from repeating yourself. After a number of years - it just becomes the way you speak.

You make a good point about neutral accents.

This is something that prople who are learning English should be aware of. Not only to make themselves easily understood, but also to avoid being laughed at behind their backs. Nobody wants to sound like a rube.

It has always seemed to me that the English spoken by educated people in the northeastern part of the US - the Middle Atlantic States and New England - sounds closer to Received Pronunciation than many [if not most] regional dialects in the UK itself.

Probably the best way to lose a heavy accent is travelling and interacting with a wide variety of people, and being in situations where you have to make yourself understood.

Strange accents, bad grammer and fractured syntax that become accepted as the norm, all develop in isolation. Either geographic isolation or the imposition of localized isolation such as the ghettos of Europe in past times. Demographic alienation and division could be added as well.

Students should take into consideration the different variations of the English language and make their own decisions as to what they want to sound like; then choose their teachers accordingly.

[worgeordie]

I am proud of my accent and would not change it for the World,

my wife has even picked up a few words!,the Geordie language

has many words that are unique to it,and ending a sentence in

"man",is and was used way before the Hippies took it up.

heres some Geordie words can you guess what they mean in English

hoy,spuggy,stot,spelk,clarts,gan,hinney even Google says they are

not words!

regards Worgeordie

[Chiengmaijoe]

I am proud of my accent and would not change it for the World,

my wife has even picked up a few words!,the Geordie language

has many words that are unique to it,and ending a sentence in

"man",is and was used way before the Hippies took it up.

heres some Geordie words can you guess what they mean in English

hoy,spuggy,stot,spelk,clarts,gan,hinney even Google says they are

not words!

regards Worgeordie

My accent softened over time, probably because nobody could understand me when I left Liverpool to live In the soft south, so I had to repeat myself sometimes two or three times, but not so much that most people wouldn't know where I'm from. As for dialect, which is what you gave examples of, good for a laugh, but other than using them with fellow native speakers not much use as a form of communication.

In my experiience of people using slang or regional dialects, the worst are Aussies. Plenty of them don't seem to appreciate that they are actually using Aussie slang and other than Aussies, no one will know what they mean. A non-native English speaker often communicates more effectively with Thais than native speakers because they will tend to speak more slowly , use simpler words and without slang or strong accent. It is interesting watching someone with a strong accent or a strong use of slang trying to speak to a Thai. Saying it again , only louder, doesn't always work!

[worgeordie]

I am proud of my accent and would not change it for the World,

my wife has even picked up a few words!,the Geordie language

has many words that are unique to it,and ending a sentence in

"man",is and was used way before the Hippies took it up.

heres some Geordie words can you guess what they mean in English

hoy,spuggy,stot,spelk,clarts,gan,hinney even Google says they are

not words!

regards Worgeordie

My accent softened over time, probably because nobody could understand me when I left Liverpool to live In the soft south, so I had to repeat myself sometimes two or three times, but not so much that most people wouldn't know where I'm from. As for dialect, which is what you gave examples of, good for a laugh, but other than using them with fellow native speakers not much use as a form of communication.

In my experiience of people using slang or regional dialects, the worst are Aussies. Plenty of them don't seem to appreciate that they are actually using Aussie slang and other than Aussies, no one will know what they mean. A non-native English speaker often communicates more effectively with Thais than native speakers because they will tend to speak more slowly , use simpler words and without slang or strong accent. It is interesting watching someone with a strong accent or a strong use of slang trying to speak to a Thai. Saying it again , only louder, doesn't always work!

When/if i get to climb the ladder,and are able to look down,i may too loose my accent,

the examples of Geordie words i gave ,could never be used when speaking to a non

Geordie,thats a given.

When speaking English or Thai to non Geordies,or course you try and temper the

accent,but i would never take elocution lessons to try and speak the Queens English.

Most people in the world have accents,and its interesting to try and guess where they

are from before they even tell you.just like different languages,accents are part of life.

regards Worgeordie

[Saan]

I am proud of my accent and would not change it for the World,

my wife has even picked up a few words!,the Geordie language

has many words that are unique to it,and ending a sentence in

"man",is and was used way before the Hippies took it up.

heres some Geordie words can you guess what they mean in English

hoy,spuggy,stot,spelk,clarts,gan,hinney even Google says they are

not words!

regards Worgeordie

Google is right.

[Saan]

I am proud of my accent and would not change it for the World,

my wife has even picked up a few words!,the Geordie language

has many words that are unique to it,and ending a sentence in

"man",is and was used way before the Hippies took it up.

heres some Geordie words can you guess what they mean in English

hoy,spuggy,stot,spelk,clarts,gan,hinney even Google says they are

not words!

regards Worgeordie

My accent softened over time, probably because nobody could understand me when I left Liverpool to live In the soft south, so I had to repeat myself sometimes two or three times, but not so much that most people wouldn't know where I'm from. As for dialect, which is what you gave examples of, good for a laugh, but other than using them with fellow native speakers not much use as a form of communication.

In my experiience of people using slang or regional dialects, the worst are Aussies. Plenty of them don't seem to appreciate that they are actually using Aussie slang and other than Aussies, no one will know what they mean. A non-native English speaker often communicates more effectively with Thais than native speakers because they will tend to speak more slowly , use simpler words and without slang or strong accent. It is interesting watching someone with a strong accent or a strong use of slang trying to speak to a Thai. Saying it again , only louder, doesn't always work!

When/if i get to climb the ladder,and are able to look down,i may too loose my accent,

the examples of Geordie words i gave ,could never be used when speaking to a non

Geordie,thats a given.

When speaking English or Thai to non Geordies,or course you try and temper the

accent,but i would never take elocution lessons to try and speak the Queens English.

Most people in the world have accents,and its interesting to try and guess where they

are from before they even tell you.just like different languages,accents are part of life.

regards Worgeordie

But you are right to retain your accent or not consciously go about changing it. It would be a shame if we all spoke in a uniform accent. Some accents are like music to the ears whilst others make a chainsaws sound sonorous. But I'd rather the variety than blancmange. Accents are also a handy way of identifying where people come from and once upon a time, class.

[Nolster]

it is amazing as to how different accents develop in certain geographical areas. The accent in New Orleans is very close to the Brooklyn accent. The best answer I got was that being a port city similar types of immigrants passed through in the 1800's. And then I met on two different occasions some visitors in New Orleans that I thought for sure were Aussies; it turned out that they lived in certain parts of Alabama next to Louisiana. Overall, there is not one single American accent, each region has a slightly different accent. In Los Angeles there is the East LA accent vs the Valley Girl accent.

One thing for sure is that what you learn to speak as a child stays with you and colors other 'learned' accents along the way. Certain sounds and syllables from one language group are very difficult for others to pick up later in life. It still amazes me when I hear the clicking sounds language spoken by the Bushman tribes in Southern Africa.

[JingerBen]

My accent softened over time, probably because nobody could understand me when I left Liverpool to live In the soft south, so I had to repeat myself sometimes two or three times, but not so much that most people wouldn't know where I'm from. As for dialect, which is what you gave examples of, good for a laugh, but other than using them with fellow native speakers not much use as a form of communication.

In my experiience of people using slang or regional dialects, the worst are Aussies. Plenty of them don't seem to appreciate that they are actually using Aussie slang and other than Aussies, no one will know what they mean. A non-native English speaker often communicates more effectively with Thais than native speakers because they will tend to speak more slowly , use simpler words and without slang or strong accent. It is interesting watching someone with a strong accent or a strong use of slang trying to speak to a Thai. Saying it again , only louder, doesn't always work!

When/if i get to climb the ladder,and are able to look down,i may too loose my accent,

the examples of Geordie words i gave ,could never be used when speaking to a non

Geordie,thats a given.

When speaking English or Thai to non Geordies,or course you try and temper the

accent,but i would never take elocution lessons to try and speak the Queens English.

Most people in the world have accents,and its interesting to try and guess where they

are from before they even tell you.just like different languages,accents are part of life.

regards Worgeordie

But you are right to retain your accent or not consciously go about changing it. It would be a shame if we all spoke in a uniform accent. Some accents are like music to the ears whilst others make a chainsaws sound sonorous. But I'd rather the variety than blancmange. Accents are also a handy way of identifying where people come from and once upon a time, class.

Let's hear it for diversity!

I'm all for that. Rest easy, nothing is going to suppress the multifarious accents of the English language. They will continue and multiply.

What is at issue here is the choices facing people learning English and what they want to sound like, and how they will be judged by the people who hear them speak.

Maybe they will want to identify with inbred hillbillys from the backwoods of Tennessee, or perhaps as yobs fresh from the outback. They can do that easily enough, simply by speaking and acting like them.

There is another alternative if they choose to take it, and that is to learn the language in its standard form that is comprehensible worldwide; so they are able to communicate and interact with other civilized people.

[Chiengmaijoe]

When/if i get to climb the ladder,and are able to look down,i may too loose my accent,

the examples of Geordie words i gave ,could never be used when speaking to a non

Geordie,thats a given.

regards Worgeordie

Your obsession with climbing ladders suggests that you are a frustrated fireman. Do you dream about climbing a ladder? From the internet.....

"According to Freud, dreams of climbing may represent a longing for sexual fulfillment."

[Konini]

Now, now CMJ, play nice. You and my favourite Geordie on the forums do seem to have a propensity to bicker between yourselves don't you? As long as it's all in good humour that's OK, it gives me a bit of amusement and adds spice to the Chiang Mai forum. I'd love to bear witness to a face to face.

What an interesting discussion this has turned out to be. Personally, I'm from the colliery villages between Durham and Peterlee but moved to Doncaster as a 3 year old because the mine closed. We moved into a house built by the NCB but gifted to the council on the understanding that the whole estate was only for miners who had been down the pits for a minimum of 2 years after the initial surge. The people who lived next door to us used to live around the corner from us, and the people who used to live next door to us were in a house almost opposite us. It was almost a whole village transplanted 100 miles away, with 5 or 6 Scottish families making up the balance. It's now a disgraceful place full of single mothers and drug addicts, but that's a topic for another day. Up until we started school, we only mixed with each other, and when we started school we were about equal in number to the Yorkie kids, so our accents didn't change much until we went to high school. In fact, we didn't even know we had an accent until we went to high school, we just spoke 'normal' and the people on television spoke 'posh'. Within a year of high school we picked up the full Yorkie accent, although we retained the words which Worgeordie spoke of, and occasionally other kids wouldn't understand what we were talking about when we said things like 'I left it in the cree' (shed). This kind of led to my intense interest in accents and linguistics.

At 16 I went to stay with an Aunt at Hartlepool for a week, met my husband at Billingham ice rink, and basically never went back, thereafter becoming a Smoggy (so named because of the perma-smog that hangs over Teeside). Dad worked with the men he had always worked with and never lost his accent. Mam started working on school meals once we were all in school, and although she'll never be mistaken for a Yorkie, has now (after 47 years) a very toned down almost Yorkshire accent.

In 1987 with GBP 1,200 in our pockets we migrated to NZ and realised pretty quickly that although it's a beautiful country, especially good for anyone wanting the perfect place to bring up kids, it wasn't for us. We didn't want kids, had a plan to retire at 45 and live it up, pretty ambitious for a toolmaker and a bright but totally unqualified coal miner's daughter. After 18 months, we moved on to Melbourne and found our new perfect home. If you wanted to work 38 hours a week, come home and have a barbie or go to the beach or partake in your hobby you could live well. If you wanted to work ridiculously long hours, drive old bangers that lasted week to week, totally dependant on the skills of the handyman of the family, and spend as little as possible and save you could do very well for yourself in later years. I trawled my way through the Australian Taxation Act, found every single deduction we were entailed to and presented them to our accountant at the end of the financial year. We earned good money, I taught myself about investments and we invested well - always safe, property and shares but only ever blue chip shares, no gambling and definitely no get rich quick schemes. My accent toned down notably, it had to because I was constantly on the phone or in meetings with Australians and had to make myself very clearly understood, with my husband not so much, he worked with a lot of Greeks and Yugoslavs and picked up their pigeon English, missing out superfluous words and not using tenses, I had to pull him up all the time for doing it, because as it became a habit with him, any native English speaker might think of him as being very lower class, a bogan or a chav or trailer-trash. He still does it now because of speaking so much to Thai's and it gets markedly worse when he's had a drink or two. In 1997, when I was 43 and hubby was 44 we retired, sold up house and home, all worldly possessions gone and we carried what we owned and owned what we carried. We travelled for a couple of years, always ending up back in Chiang Mai, and in 2009, we came here planning to stay for 2 months and never left.

Mixing with more nationalities changed our accents further. Because of my interest in accents and linguistics, I can pick where people come from most of the time, especially in Yorkshire. Hubby sometimes watches Jeremy Kyle, who is the English Jerry Springer, except that none of these people are actors as they are on Jerry Springer. They are all real and from a council estate near you. Two people I went to school with have been on and someone who lives over the back from hubby's cousin have been on (we haven't seen those episodes, just heard about them and their 15 minutes of fame).

What I've learned over time is that there are 2 NZ accents, which start to merge and grow stronger the further south you go. They are famous for saying 'fush and cheps' and 'sex' for the number 6. As soon as we arrived, I spotted that they spoke like the Scotchie kids from my youth, and later found that in the far south of the South Island, Dunedin and Invercargil, there are actually terraced houses, just like back in Scotland. Many, many Scottish migrants went there, and you can really tell in the accent. In Australia, there are basically 4 accents; middle class, ordinary (which is very close to middle class, just a bit less correct and that is the Australian you hear in person every day and on TV), country which is pretty much the same but with words dragged out further, kind of like Crocodile Dundee, and bogan which is the equivalent of chav or trailer trash. In America the accents are much more defined, particularly the deep south and New York accents, but apart from those two I don't think I could spot which part of America they come from, but I can always spot a Canadian.

It's very different in England of course. As kids, we used to laugh at the kids from Barnlsey because they called it Baaarnsleigh. Barnsley is only 9 miles from Doncaster. On Jeremy Kyle, after a sentence, maybe two I can pick Leeds, York, Halifax, Sheffield, Nottingham, Harrogate and Middlesborough. There is a slight difference on Teeside even, those in Billingham speak ever so slightly differently than those from Stockton or the Boro. Sadly, there are more people from Doncaster and the towns immediately around it and Teeside than any other on Jeremy Kyle. I detest that program, if you've never heard of him, there are loads of video's on YouTube and figure out why someone hasn't given him a real beating - I know he has security people on hand in the studio, but if anyone ever spoke to me the way he speaks to people I would hunt him down and set fire to his house or something equally horrible.

There is also one particular accent I spotted first about 15 years ago while doing one of the dreaded kangaroo route hops from Melbourne to Manchester, and it's an accent which may be of interest to a lot of people here. It's the international accent. During a stopover in Singapore we were asking directions from a lovely 15 or 16 year old girl and I couldn't place her accent no matter how hard I tried, and I'm not talking about which town or village she came from, I mean I couldn't spot which country she came from! I finally gave in and asked where she came from; expat family, born in Hong Kong to Australian parents and educated her whole life in International Schools. This young lady had a truly international accent, and I've heard it a lot since we started travelling and mixing with expats in various countries around South East Asia.

Well, that was a big one. That's why I am a meandering member

[worgeordie]

When/if i get to climb the ladder,and are able to look down,i may too loose my accent,

the examples of Geordie words i gave ,could never be used when speaking to a non

Geordie,thats a given.

regards Worgeordie

Your obsession with climbing ladders suggests that you are a frustrated fireman. Do you dream about climbing a ladder? From the internet.....

"According to Freud, dreams of climbing may represent a longing for sexual fulfillment."

Hi Jo it was you who first mentioned ladders ,in a post about porridge,how as a

youngster coming from a poor family,you had to eat porridge,but now you have

"climbed the ladder",you would never eat it again as its food for poor people,don't

say that to any Scotsmen.

Who's Freud, he must be the one who learn t you how to psychoanalyze people you

meet in bars drinking Acha beer etc.no i would not like climbing ladders,no head for

heights. its only banter for me but you seem to take things too seriously,Jo.

regards worgeordie

[Saan]

Now, now CMJ, play nice. You and my favourite Geordie on the forums do seem to have a propensity to bicker between yourselves don't you? As long as it's all in good humour that's OK, it gives me a bit of amusement and adds spice to the Chiang Mai forum. I'd love to bear witness to a face to face.

What an interesting discussion this has turned out to be. Personally, I'm from the colliery villages between Durham and Peterlee but moved to Doncaster as a 3 year old because the mine closed. We moved into a house built by the NCB but gifted to the council on the understanding that the whole estate was only for miners who had been down the pits for a minimum of 2 years after the initial surge. The people who lived next door to us used to live around the corner from us, and the people who used to live next door to us were in a house almost opposite us. It was almost a whole village transplanted 100 miles away, with 5 or 6 Scottish families making up the balance. It's now a disgraceful place full of single mothers and drug addicts, but that's a topic for another day. Up until we started school, we only mixed with each other, and when we started school we were about equal in number to the Yorkie kids, so our accents didn't change much until we went to high school. In fact, we didn't even know we had an accent until we went to high school, we just spoke 'normal' and the people on television spoke 'posh'. Within a year of high school we picked up the full Yorkie accent, although we retained the words which Worgeordie spoke of, and occasionally other kids wouldn't understand what we were talking about when we said things like 'I left it in the cree' (shed). This kind of led to my intense interest in accents and linguistics.

At 16 I went to stay with an Aunt at Hartlepool for a week, met my husband at Billingham ice rink, and basically never went back, thereafter becoming a Smoggy (so named because of the perma-smog that hangs over Teeside). Dad worked with the men he had always worked with and never lost his accent. Mam started working on school meals once we were all in school, and although she'll never be mistaken for a Yorkie, has now (after 47 years) a very toned down almost Yorkshire accent.

In 1987 with GBP 1,200 in our pockets we migrated to NZ and realised pretty quickly that although it's a beautiful country, especially good for anyone wanting the perfect place to bring up kids, it wasn't for us. We didn't want kids, had a plan to retire at 45 and live it up, pretty ambitious for a toolmaker and a bright but totally unqualified coal miner's daughter. After 18 months, we moved on to Melbourne and found our new perfect home. If you wanted to work 38 hours a week, come home and have a barbie or go to the beach or partake in your hobby you could live well. If you wanted to work ridiculously long hours, drive old bangers that lasted week to week, totally dependant on the skills of the handyman of the family, and spend as little as possible and save you could do very well for yourself in later years. I trawled my way through the Australian Taxation Act, found every single deduction we were entailed to and presented them to our accountant at the end of the financial year. We earned good money, I taught myself about investments and we invested well - always safe, property and shares but only ever blue chip shares, no gambling and definitely no get rich quick schemes. My accent toned down notably, it had to because I was constantly on the phone or in meetings with Australians and had to make myself very clearly understood, with my husband not so much, he worked with a lot of Greeks and Yugoslavs and picked up their pigeon English, missing out superfluous words and not using tenses, I had to pull him up all the time for doing it, because as it became a habit with him, any native English speaker might think of him as being very lower class, a bogan or a chav or trailer-trash. He still does it now because of speaking so much to Thai's and it gets markedly worse when he's had a drink or two. In 1997, when I was 43 and hubby was 44 we retired, sold up house and home, all worldly possessions gone and we carried what we owned and owned what we carried. We travelled for a couple of years, always ending up back in Chiang Mai, and in 2009, we came here planning to stay for 2 months and never left.

Mixing with more nationalities changed our accents further. Because of my interest in accents and linguistics, I can pick where people come from most of the time, especially in Yorkshire. Hubby sometimes watches Jeremy Kyle, who is the English Jerry Springer, except that none of these people are actors as they are on Jerry Springer. They are all real and from a council estate near you. Two people I went to school with have been on and someone who lives over the back from hubby's cousin have been on (we haven't seen those episodes, just heard about them and their 15 minutes of fame).

What I've learned over time is that there are 2 NZ accents, which start to merge and grow stronger the further south you go. They are famous for saying 'fush and cheps' and 'sex' for the number 6. As soon as we arrived, I spotted that they spoke like the Scotchie kids from my youth, and later found that in the far south of the South Island, Dunedin and Invercargil, there are actually terraced houses, just like back in Scotland. Many, many Scottish migrants went there, and you can really tell in the accent. In Australia, there are basically 4 accents; middle class, ordinary (which is very close to middle class, just a bit less correct and that is the Australian you hear in person every day and on TV), country which is pretty much the same but with words dragged out further, kind of like Crocodile Dundee, and bogan which is the equivalent of chav or trailer trash. In America the accents are much more defined, particularly the deep south and New York accents, but apart from those two I don't think I could spot which part of America they come from, but I can always spot a Canadian.

It's very different in England of course. As kids, we used to laugh at the kids from Barnlsey because they called it Baaarnsleigh. Barnsley is only 9 miles from Doncaster. On Jeremy Kyle, after a sentence, maybe two I can pick Leeds, York, Halifax, Sheffield, Nottingham, Harrogate and Middlesborough. There is a slight difference on Teeside even, those in Billingham speak ever so slightly differently than those from Stockton or the Boro. Sadly, there are more people from Doncaster and the towns immediately around it and Teeside than any other on Jeremy Kyle. I detest that program, if you've never heard of him, there are loads of video's on YouTube and figure out why someone hasn't given him a real beating - I know he has security people on hand in the studio, but if anyone ever spoke to me the way he speaks to people I would hunt him down and set fire to his house or something equally horrible.

There is also one particular accent I spotted first about 15 years ago while doing one of the dreaded kangaroo route hops from Melbourne to Manchester, and it's an accent which may be of interest to a lot of people here. It's the international accent. During a stopover in Singapore we were asking directions from a lovely 15 or 16 year old girl and I couldn't place her accent no matter how hard I tried, and I'm not talking about which town or village she came from, I mean I couldn't spot which country she came from! I finally gave in and asked where she came from; expat family, born in Hong Kong to Australian parents and educated her whole life in International Schools. This young lady had a truly international accent, and I've heard it a lot since we started travelling and mixing with expats in various countries around South East Asia.

Well, that was a big one. That's why I am a meandering member

The Australian accent has changed over the years. Listen to political broadcasts from the thirties and forties and you will hear a much broader and more nasal accent than is generally spoken now, quite grating. Now days there is not much difference in class accents except at the very lower of the school where a kind of argot is practiced as some sort of rite.

I have always found it amazing that there is so little variation of accents from state to state. I would have thought people from Perth would have developed a distinctive accent because of the isolation and distance from the east coast, about 4000 km by road. But I can't pick a Sandgroper by their accent. The only ones I can usually identify ware the Queenslanders (Banana Benders) because of their peculiar habit of finishing each sentence with an 'aye'.

[Konini]

The Australian accent has changed over the years. Listen to political broadcasts from the thirties and forties and you will hear a much broader and more nasal accent than is generally spoken now, quite grating. Now days there is not much difference in class accents except at the very lower of the school where a kind of argot is practiced as some sort of rite.

I have always found it amazing that there is so little variation of accents from state to state. I would have thought people from Perth would have developed a distinctive accent because of the isolation and distance from the east coast, about 4000 km by road. But I can't pick a Sandgroper by their accent. The only ones I can usually identify ware the Queenslanders (Banana Benders) because of their peculiar habit of finishing each sentence with an 'aye'.

The thing about the nasal thing is definitely right. It does grate, and even some white collar workers speak through their nose rather than their mouth.

The 'aye' at the end of the sentence comes from the Kiwi's. The coastal Queensland accent is quite similar to Kiwi. I'm ashamed to say that in the 18 months that we lived there I picked up the 'aye' habit and it took about 4 years in Melbourne to rid me of it.

[Chiengmaijoe]

When/if i get to climb the ladder,and are able to look down,i may too loose my accent,

the examples of Geordie words i gave ,could never be used when speaking to a non

Geordie,thats a given.

regards Worgeordie

Your obsession with climbing ladders suggests that you are a frustrated fireman. Do you dream about climbing a ladder? From the internet.....

"According to Freud, dreams of climbing may represent a longing for sexual fulfillment."

Hi Jo it was you who first mentioned ladders ,in a post about porridge,how as a

youngster coming from a poor family,you had to eat porridge,but now you have

"climbed the ladder",you would never eat it again as its food for poor people,don't

say that to any Scotsmen.

Who's Freud, he must be the one who learn t you how to psychoanalyze people you

meet in bars drinking Acha beer etc.no i would not like climbing ladders,no head for

heights. its only banter for me but you seem to take things too seriously,Jo.

regards worgeordie

My reference to porridge was obviously tongue-in-cheek but a few of your later posts imply that I think I am top of the ladder looking down on people. The reality is that I'm only on rung two, looking up at the cheap Charlie's above me! Freud didn't learn me anything, but he did teach me a few things. Most of the psychoanalysing I do is based on years of studying miserable, complaining, cheapskate farangs, but only because they amaze and amuse me. Where did they go wrong, poor souls. As for taking anything on here seriously...... Seriously?

Konini, where did the Aussie phrase 'yeah, no' come from? I take the piss out of Aussies that say it, but most of them don't actually realise that they're saying it. I'm still not sure which of those two words it is supposed to mean, yes, or no?

[Konini]

Konini, where did the Aussie phrase 'yeah, no' come from? I take the piss out of Aussies that say it, but most of them don't actually realise that they're saying it. I'm still not sure which of those two words it is supposed to mean, yes, or no?

It's a great mystery where it comes from. I'm a daytime radio listener, always have been and always talk radio from BBC or equivalent which a lot of people would call me a snob for but I don't care. I listen to ABC Melbourne mornings and BBC Radio Tees afternoons. One of the presenters on the Melbourne station has a running tally of people who say 'yeah, no' during interviews or call-back. It's a habit, like the Kiwi's saying 'aye' at the end of every sentence. I needed people to be professional on the phones, and i once gave a written warning to someone who kept saying 'yeah no' to people. After that written warning, everyone stopped doing it immediately both on the phones and face to face with anyone who came into the office, but still used it amongst themselves.

Very annoying, but just a habit. My husband's granddad used to say 'like' at the end of every sentence, and for 4 years I thought he was a bit mad or senile because he always called me Trixlike. He was calling me Trix for some reason and just adding like on the end. That's a Teeside thing, just like Geordies will often say 'man' on the end of their sentences. I still do that to this day, hubby still says like at the end of a lot of sentences.

The 'yeah no' is almost always at the beginning of their sentence, the first words not the last. It's also quite recent. When we got to Australia in early 1989 it wasn't in use, I think maybe only the last 10 years or so, starting off slowly then building up very quickly so a huge number of people say it, even the middle class. If it were me, you could say I was using it to stall for a couple of seconds to think about what I was going to say, but for most people that isn't the case. There has been much discussion in Australia about how it started and how it can be wiped out, because it is really annoying.

[Chiengmaijoe]

Konini, the 'like' at the end of a sentence doesn't bother me, in fact said with a Geordie accent it sounds quaint, but the American "I was like....." Can be a bit annoying when it is in every sentence.