UK financial bombshell may hit British Expats

[dunks]

The parasitic British government can go and ger F*cked!!

This is exactly why I do not invest in the UK.

The writing is on the wall...

[laolover88]

The obvious point is that if your income is derived from the UK and you do not live there, regardless of allowances and other offsets..you pay UK Income Tax and derive none of the so called benefits...a wonderful police service, worldclass schools, roads macademed like silk, a perfect Health Service...so in fact you are subsidising UK residents.

[kruangfaifar]

I may be missing something but isn't the solution not to submit a UK tax return?

[billd766]

That good old magic word "IF" again.

"IF" my Granddad wore a dress he would have been my Granny. However he didn't, and he wasn't

But you don't know what your granddad did in the privacy of his own wardrobe now, do you?

Well he was born in 1886 and died in 1958 and I don't think that there were any cross dressers in those days.

[kruangfaifar]

"The total sum which could be saved confiscated by the government is in the region of 400 million pounds."

"Saved?" Where do governments ever get the idea that their citizens' money is first theirs?

Thats the root of the problem with these quasi commie countries, its not the citizens money, its the govt's money to do with as they see fit.

Hence such socialist paradises as Greece, Spain, Italy etc are now finding out to their cost and wonder why they are skint.

If you don't like these so called socialist paradises what do you like? If my memory serves me correctly the US was on the verge of meltdown not so long ago because of the country's Federal financial situation. Personally I would rather my tax dollars be spent on Universal free health care than supporting the world's highest defence spending and the world's highest prison population. There is a difference between Socialist and Communist you know:-)

[Brian Corrigan]

The first thing that needs to be corrected by this misleading article is the fact that there are more than 400,000 British expats living in other parts of the World. More like 6,000,000 at the last count.

Secondly I have copied here the part of the consultation document which relates to pensioners living in Thailand.

I understand that all Commonwealth countries lost the right for their British expat pensioners to claim the personal allowance in 2010.There are however, a fair number of expats living in countries other than Commonwealth ones where the loss of the personal allowance could be a factor in determining if they should return to the UK. Lets hope that the following extract from the Governments paper is true.
The government does not intend to raise taxes on vulnerable groups or
in situations where the UK is the principal taxing authority and an
individual has no recourse to relief as a result of the UK having sole
taxing rights under a tax treaty. If the government were to restrict
non-residents’ entitlement to the Personal Allowance, it would intend
this to apply to types of income which are taxable both in the UK and
overseas (such as that from immovable property) but to retain the
Personal Allowance on income that is taxable exclusively in the UK.
My words:
The British state pension is exclusively taxable in the UK,except where there is a double taxation agreement. Although Thailand does have an agreement with the UK it does not cover pension payments.

Feel free to comment.

[emilymat]

If you read the consultation document , it will happen.

However it does state that if your main income is from the uk then those allowances can be used ,although income from rentals will probably be excluded, as said previously , easy target.

Capital gains tax a definite.

Is it possible to give me a link to the consultation document?. Like an earlier poster, I will have to pack my bags and leave Thailand as I would fall below the income level for retirement visa.

Quadruple whammy since I moved here in 07

pound down from 70-50 baht

frozen pension

almost zero interest on modest savings

rising prices in Thailand

What is the timescale set out in the document. Thank you.

[NeverSure]

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"The consultation document claims that few countries in the world have as generous an allowance for expats as Britain"

The USA has the most draconian laws for taxation but even they allow 92,500 dollars to be earnt tax free overseas. Obviously any income made in the USA is taxed. load od bo***cks. But I can see it happening.

I don't know where people get these ideas. The US has some of the lowest taxes anywhere. That's one of the reasons prices are cheap. There isn't a tax added on at every stop - not even an import tax and where I live, not a sales tax aka vat.

My income was much more than the average American last year and I paid 12% of my gross income for income taxes. If I took no legal deductions, the top possible tax rate would have been 37%, but absolutely everyone has at least some deductions.

[huawei]

I think it is for the tax year April 2015 onwards .

I may have read somewhere implemented from July 2015.

My real gut feel on this is that if your only income is a uk pension or it is a very significant component of your income then allowances will be made available to offset against that income.

It is complex and the responses to the consultation document by the institute of chartered accountants for example bring up certain issues which need to be addressed so it may be delayed .

I will look for the link. Don't worry until or if it happens.

You can declare your pension gross anyway for visa requirements as you are non resident .

[robertthebruce]

I'm

Tell them nothing .....

[dunque]

If you read section 6.6 of the attached it seems pension income should be ok - more of an issue for other income types

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/restricting-non-residents-entitlement-to-the-uk-personal-allowance/restricting-non-residents-entitlement-to-the-uk-personal-allowance#restricting-access-to-the-personal-allowance-in-the-uk

[carter1882]

Hopefully the gravy train that is UK pensioners living in Thailand will be over soon. Not only should the UK govt tax them but their pensions should be taxed further by the Thai authorities. What have they contributed to the coffers here? Nothing. Pay taxes and stop expecting a free ride. Contribute to Thailand and then those of us who have paid taxes here their entire working lives might even have a smidgin of respect for you.

[Brian Corrigan]

Hopefully the gravy train that is UK pensioners living in Thailand will be over soon. Not only should the UK govt tax them but their pensions should be taxed further by the Thai authorities. What have they contributed to the coffers here? Nothing. Pay taxes and stop expecting a free ride. Contribute to Thailand and then those of us who have paid taxes here their entire working lives might even have a smidgin of respect for you.

All pensioners living in Thailand do already "contribute to the coffers."They spend their pensions here, pay tax on their purchases and support their Thai spouses. Sorry you have to work to make your contribution. Oh and by the way,all pensions are already taxed in the UK.I hope you disclose all your Thai income because that is also subject to UK tax assessment.

[SanSaiExPat]

"The total sum which could be saved confiscated by the government is in the region of 400 million pounds."

"Saved?" Where do governments ever get the idea that their citizens' money is first theirs?

They get that idea from socialists and "progressives" who know better than the average bloke, They therefore feel comfortable and justified in force-ably, at the point of a gun, or under the threat of prison, taking their citizens hard earned money and redistributing and squandering it on projects and causes they deem worthy. What did Margaret Thatcher say, "The Problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

[Beetlejuice]

This is still under consideration and now old news.

Aleady being discussed in UK Pensions.

Yes, this is old news. Also could affect if these proposals come into affect are those who are earning incomes from rental properties in the UK.

Again this is old news, nothing conclusive for the time being, far from it in fact and no need to panic just yet.

[misterphil]

£4M to give to assylum seekers you mean?

[watso63]

Hopefully the gravy train that is UK pensioners living in Thailand will be over soon. Not only should the UK govt tax them but their pensions should be taxed further by the Thai authorities. What have they contributed to the coffers here? Nothing. Pay taxes and stop expecting a free ride. Contribute to Thailand and then those of us who have paid taxes here their entire working lives might even have a smidgin of respect for you.

Bitter and twisted jealousy is such a negative emotion that could affect your health. If you live long enough, you will become a pensioner one day too, but be careful you don't spend all your 600 baht per month in one day now.

[rayongchelsea]

Hopefully the gravy train that is UK pensioners living in Thailand will be over soon. Not only should the UK govt tax them but their pensions should be taxed further by the Thai authorities. What have they contributed to the coffers here? Nothing. Pay taxes and stop expecting a free ride. Contribute to Thailand and then those of us who have paid taxes here their entire working lives might even have a smidgin of respect for you.

Bitter and twisted jealousy is such a negative emotion that could affect your health. If you live long enough, you will become a pensioner one day too, but be careful you don't spend all your 600 baht per month in one day now.

The guy has a point.

Retirees don't contribute to the infrastructure, policing, health care, schooling,yet some even try to use the 30baht scheme, complain about policing, the lighting in their street, the garbage etc..the list is endless here on thai visa.

The silly comment I spend my money here, support a thai spouse ( how ridiculous a statement is that!) - all voluntarily and all for your own self consumption and own needs not for the general good of thailand.

I am nearer to pension age , paid a fortune in taxes here..can't say I am impressed with all this old type moaning..it is criminal to tax UK state pensions period, but retirees contribute very little in the scheme of things. In Fact they pay no income taxes in Thailand yet are resident here for taxes purposes as defined by thai tax laws..which by the way you can pay voluntarily if you want to declare it..

It is not a negative emotion, why does everything have to be emotional it is simply stating a fact you live in a country more then 6 months a year and you don't pay taxes!

You don't live in the UK, your monies are transferred over tax free because of allowances..that makes sense as you contributed and don't use UK services. But here you do use services, the lighting, the roads etc..so logically you should pay tax here for those services or you want them for free as well, don't you want to contribute to thai society at large .

Being a poor pensioner sucks ! Getting old sucks !

[KittenKong]

If you read the consultation document , it will happen.

However it does state that if your main income is from the uk then those allowances can be used ,although income from rentals will probably be excluded, as said previously , easy target.

Capital gains tax a definite.

Only on property, and this is already scheduled for next year. The introduction of CGT on paper investments for non-residents is unlikely, as is the removal of the existing concessions on gross interest, gilt coupons and dividends.

Also they dont seem to want to target people who actually come from the UK and/or have lived or worked or invested there for a long time.

So personally I think there will be little real change for expat Brits on British pensions and with British investments. It wont affect me for another 10+ years anyway, when I start drawing my pension, always assuming that they are still paying pensions by then and that I am still around to collect mine (neither of which I rely upon).

[watso63]

Hopefully the gravy train that is UK pensioners living in Thailand will be over soon. Not only should the UK govt tax them but their pensions should be taxed further by the Thai authorities. What have they contributed to the coffers here? Nothing. Pay taxes and stop expecting a free ride. Contribute to Thailand and then those of us who have paid taxes here their entire working lives might even have a smidgin of respect for you.

Bitter and twisted jealousy is such a negative emotion that could affect your health. If you live long enough, you will become a pensioner one day too, but be careful you don't spend all your 600 baht per month in one day now.

The guy has a point.

Retirees don't contribute to the infrastructure, policing, health care, schooling,yet some even try to use the 30baht scheme, complain about policing, the lighting in their street, the garbage etc..the list is endless here on thai visa.

The silly comment I spend my money here, support a thai spouse ( how ridiculous a statement is that!) - all voluntarily and all for your own self consumption and own needs not for the general good of thailand.

I am nearer to pension age , paid a fortune in taxes here..can't say I am impressed with all this old type moaning..it is criminal to tax UK state pensions period, but retirees contribute very little in the scheme of things. In Fact they pay no income taxes in Thailand yet are resident here for taxes purposes as defined by thai tax laws..which by the way you can pay voluntarily if you want to declare it..

It is not a negative emotion, why does everything have to be emotional it is simply stating a fact you live in a country more then 6 months a year and you don't pay taxes!

You don't live in the UK, your monies are transferred over tax free because of allowances..that makes sense as you contributed and don't use UK services. But here you do use services, the lighting, the roads etc..so logically you should pay tax here for those services or you want them for free as well, don't you want to contribute to thai society at large .

Being a poor pensioner sucks ! Getting old sucks !

Of course pensioners pay plenty of indirect taxes. Don't blame an expat pensioner for Thailands tax rules. Plenty of Thais don't pay any tax. Never mind whether anyone pays for a Thai family, as you say that is a choice. Well if I buy a car and a motorbike (which I have) depending on the model, there is a lot of tax paid. Beer, foreign "luxury" items, taxed. Dual pricing etc etc. Thailand likes to attract retirees for one reason only...MONEY.

[rayongchelsea]

Hopefully the gravy train that is UK pensioners living in Thailand will be over soon. Not only should the UK govt tax them but their pensions should be taxed further by the Thai authorities. What have they contributed to the coffers here? Nothing. Pay taxes and stop expecting a free ride. Contribute to Thailand and then those of us who have paid taxes here their entire working lives might even have a smidgin of respect for you.

Bitter and twisted jealousy is such a negative emotion that could affect your health. If you live long enough, you will become a pensioner one day too, but be careful you don't spend all your 600 baht per month in one day now.

The guy has a point.

Retirees don't contribute to the infrastructure, policing, health care, schooling,yet some even try to use the 30baht scheme, complain about policing, the lighting in their street, the garbage etc..the list is endless here on thai visa.

The silly comment I spend my money here, support a thai spouse ( how ridiculous a statement is that!) - all voluntarily and all for your own self consumption and own needs not for the general good of thailand.

I am nearer to pension age , paid a fortune in taxes here..can't say I am impressed with all this old type moaning..it is criminal to tax UK state pensions period, but retirees contribute very little in the scheme of things. In Fact they pay no income taxes in Thailand yet are resident here for taxes purposes as defined by thai tax laws..which by the way you can pay voluntarily if you want to declare it..

It is not a negative emotion, why does everything have to be emotional it is simply stating a fact you live in a country more then 6 months a year and you don't pay taxes!

You don't live in the UK, your monies are transferred over tax free because of allowances..that makes sense as you contributed and don't use UK services. But here you do use services, the lighting, the roads etc..so logically you should pay tax here for those services or you want them for free as well, don't you want to contribute to thai society at large .

Being a poor pensioner sucks ! Getting old sucks !

Of course pensioners pay plenty of indirect taxes. Don't blame an expat pensioner for Thailands tax rules. Plenty of Thais don't pay any tax. Never mind whether anyone pays for a Thai family, as you say that is a choice. Well if I buy a car and a motorbike (which I have) depending on the model, there is a lot of tax paid. Beer, foreign "luxury" items, taxed. Dual pricing etc etc. Thailand likes to attract retirees for one reason only...MONEY.

Ok. A thai family earning 40000 baht a month are your neighbours. They are salaried so will have income deducted at source and pay social security, with 2 kids. You live next door , have a pension, 40000 2 kids going to the same school - you don't pay any taxes but they do for exactly the same services and same consumption.

So a foreigner comes to their country and pays less, abit like the Russians and properties in the UK !!

Plenty of Thais don't pay any taxes, but NO retirees pay any taxes.

No, the Thais didn't ask you to come. I have lived here almost all my life , never saw a sign ..loads of retirees please come here! You came because you wanted to..

Who cares about the dual pricing that was happening well before you got here..

Again it isn't emotional it is fact..foreigners tend to pay less taxes than some Thais for the same services..contribute yes they do, but to whinge about UK taxes being unfair when playing the game here seems a bit like a black kettle don't you think.

One thing for sure Thailand is all about the money so don't be surprised if down the road they don't change their tax rules. Many years ago if you lived here more than 6 months you had to sign a tax declaration form before you left..

Anyway the change in the UK if implemented is very unfair and should be grandfathered in.

[watso63]

Hopefully the gravy train that is UK pensioners living in Thailand will be over soon. Not only should the UK govt tax them but their pensions should be taxed further by the Thai authorities. What have they contributed to the coffers here? Nothing. Pay taxes and stop expecting a free ride. Contribute to Thailand and then those of us who have paid taxes here their entire working lives might even have a smidgin of respect for you.

Bitter and twisted jealousy is such a negative emotion that could affect your health. If you live long enough, you will become a pensioner one day too, but be careful you don't spend all your 600 baht per month in one day now.

The guy has a point.

Retirees don't contribute to the infrastructure, policing, health care, schooling,yet some even try to use the 30baht scheme, complain about policing, the lighting in their street, the garbage etc..the list is endless here on thai visa.

The silly comment I spend my money here, support a thai spouse ( how ridiculous a statement is that!) - all voluntarily and all for your own self consumption and own needs not for the general good of thailand.

I am nearer to pension age , paid a fortune in taxes here..can't say I am impressed with all this old type moaning..it is criminal to tax UK state pensions period, but retirees contribute very little in the scheme of things. In Fact they pay no income taxes in Thailand yet are resident here for taxes purposes as defined by thai tax laws..which by the way you can pay voluntarily if you want to declare it..

It is not a negative emotion, why does everything have to be emotional it is simply stating a fact you live in a country more then 6 months a year and you don't pay taxes!

You don't live in the UK, your monies are transferred over tax free because of allowances..that makes sense as you contributed and don't use UK services. But here you do use services, the lighting, the roads etc..so logically you should pay tax here for those services or you want them for free as well, don't you want to contribute to thai society at large .

Being a poor pensioner sucks ! Getting old sucks !

Of course pensioners pay plenty of indirect taxes. Don't blame an expat pensioner for Thailands tax rules. Plenty of Thais don't pay any tax. Never mind whether anyone pays for a Thai family, as you say that is a choice. Well if I buy a car and a motorbike (which I have) depending on the model, there is a lot of tax paid. Beer, foreign "luxury" items, taxed. Dual pricing etc etc. Thailand likes to attract retirees for one reason only...MONEY.

Ok. A thai family earning 40000 baht a month are your neighbours. They are salaried so will have income deducted at source and pay social security, with 2 kids. You live next door , have a pension, 40000 2 kids going to the same school - you don't pay any taxes but they do for exactly the same services and same consumption.

So a foreigner comes to their country and pays less, abit like the Russians and properties in the UK !!

Plenty of Thais don't pay any taxes, but NO retirees pay any taxes.

No, the Thais didn't ask you to come. I have lived here almost all my life , never saw a sign ..loads of retirees please come here! You came because you wanted to..

Who cares about the dual pricing that was happening well before you got here..

Again it isn't emotional it is fact..foreigners tend to pay less taxes than some Thais for the same services..contribute yes they do, but to whinge about UK taxes being unfair when playing the game here seems a bit like a black kettle don't you think.

One thing for sure Thailand is all about the money so don't be surprised if down the road they don't change their tax rules. Many years ago if you lived here more than 6 months you had to sign a tax declaration form before you left..

Anyway the change in the UK if implemented is very unfair and should be grandfathered in.

Pensionable income has been earned outside Thailand and tax may well have been paid already back in the UK. Thai pensioners that qualify could also live in the UK. Pensions are contributory over and above the minimum UK state pension. I for one planned my life years ago and now I am taking advantage of what happens to be on offer in the world, right now. I qualify for an extension based on retirement, but that has nothing to do with the thieving UK Treasury proposals. They have already moved the retirement goalposts where I will now be 2 years short of NI payments to qualify for the new full state pension. Of course I could pay 2 years voluntary contributions, but why would I if they intend to take away my personal allowance as well as the pension being immediately frozen?

[jimbeam1]

I may be missing something but isn't the solution not to submit a UK tax return?

That's correct, you are missing something.

I have properties two properties that I rent out in the UK, as an absent landlord I have two options, either let the letting agents stop me 20% at source or apply to the UK for a tax exemption number. Also an absent pensioner I have to register as such with the pensions people, so I feel a tad difficult for me not to submit a tax return. Don't even think of going down the route of not informing the pensions people, tried that still waiting for the outcome, (nearly a year now)

jb1

[Muhendis]

If you really want to complain then here is the link: [email protected]

[Muhendis]

If you really want to complain then here is the link: [email protected]

[jimbeam1]

I may be missing something but isn't the solution not to submit a UK tax return?

That's correct, you are missing something.

I have properties two properties that I rent out in the UK, as an absent landlord I have two options, either let the letting agents stop me 20% at source or apply to the UK for a tax exemption number. Also an absent pensioner I have to register as such with the pensions people, so I feel a tad difficult for me not to submit a tax return. Don't even think of going down the route of not informing the pensions people, tried that still waiting for the outcome, (nearly a year now)

jb1

[Muhendis]

If you read the consultation document , it will happen.

However it does state that if your main income is from the uk then those allowances can be used ,although income from rentals will probably be excluded, as said previously , easy target.

Capital gains tax a definite.

Is it possible to give me a link to the consultation document?. Like an earlier poster, I will have to pack my bags and leave Thailand as I would fall below the income level for retirement visa.

Quadruple whammy since I moved here in 07

pound down from 70-50 baht

frozen pension

almost zero interest on modest savings

rising prices in Thailand

What is the timescale set out in the document. Thank you.

You may like to complain using this link: [email protected]

[Muhendis]

If you read the consultation document , it will happen.

However it does state that if your main income is from the uk then those allowances can be used ,although income from rentals will probably be excluded, as said previously , easy target.

Capital gains tax a definite.

Is it possible to give me a link to the consultation document?. Like an earlier poster, I will have to pack my bags and leave Thailand as I would fall below the income level for retirement visa.

Quadruple whammy since I moved here in 07

pound down from 70-50 baht

frozen pension

almost zero interest on modest savings

rising prices in Thailand

What is the timescale set out in the document. Thank you.

Here is the link: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/restricting-non-residents-entitlement-to-the-uk-personal-allowance/restricting-non-residents-entitlement-to-the-uk-personal-allowance

[jimbeam1]

I'm

Tell them nothing .....

Well make sure you tell no one else nothing and I mean no one.

jb1

[billd766]

If you read the consultation document , it will happen.

However it does state that if your main income is from the uk then those allowances can be used ,although income from rentals will probably be excluded, as said previously , easy target.

Capital gains tax a definite.

Is it possible to give me a link to the consultation document?. Like an earlier poster, I will have to pack my bags and leave Thailand as I would fall below the income level for retirement visa.

Quadruple whammy since I moved here in 07

pound down from 70-50 baht

frozen pension

almost zero interest on modest savings

rising prices in Thailand

What is the timescale set out in the document. Thank you.

Here you are.

Open consultation.doc