Your thought about the Visa Crack down

[Thai Visa Service]

as a operator directly affected by the changes I still scratch my head of why.

What I never understood with the current crackdown is:

They knew exactly how many people did it.

They knew exactly which company brought how many people to which border.

They knew exactly on how many people they arrested during these trips.

In the case of our company they arrested, over 9 years in operation, 2 guys at Ban Laem and none in Nong Khai.

They knew exactly of how much money they made.

They knew exactly of where this people are working or staying.

They know exactly that these Foreigner made all efforts to stay legally in the country.

If these Visa Runners caused them so much "pain", why not raid the work places, etc.

This crackdown has cost the economy huge amount of money and scared real tourist away as well.

IMHO, let the people come and choose to stay, these people are not coming to claim state benefits, unlike in Europe. If they do wrong, than arrest them.

Once they settle they will apply for the proper visa and register companies and contribute to state.

Over to you

[larsjohnsson]

They don't know exactly where these people work and stay. Let's say that I was a illegal working teacher. Do you belive I would tell them that when I made a visa/border run? And my real address instead of just writing down a hotel name?

Edited September 21, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[Bernard Flint]

My view sir

If it stops criminals/terrorists from living in Thailand illegaly, then so be it.

[Spoonman]

"If they do wrong, than arrest them".

Maybe they should look towards arresting the people who run the visa run services for aiding and abetting.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Spoonman

[yankee99]

Seems not much has changed in pattaya as my buddy (in his 30s, uk citizen, no money in the bank or job in Thailand) who has been here 6 years doing visa runs just did another last week. He uses first class visa on soi 6 think that's the name

[MrWorldwide]

"If they do wrong, than arrest them".

Maybe they should look towards arresting the people who run the visa run services for aiding and abetting.

That's absurd. Until the crackdown. the visa runners weren't breaching any rules that were being actively enforced - they were lining up to get stamps that were willingly placed in their passports by Thai Immigration and contributing to the economies of a couple of border towns in the process. I'm not thrilled about the way this crackdown has been implemented either, but to paint visa runners as criminals is way OTT.

And in case you're wondering, I've had two tourist visas, no back-to-back 30-day exemptions and zero land border entries in the last 4 years. I'm now here on an extension of stay based on retirement till Sept 2015 when I fully intend to apply for a further 12 month stay. In short, I have no interest in the visa run industry and no need for their services, but I dont see that they've done anything illegal.

[PREM-R]

I have to agree with the OP, people entering the country with a tourist visa were not/are not breaking any laws, it is only when they 'work' while staying in Thailand with that visa that they a breaking the law. Surely it makes sense, if you want to stop people working illegally, to investigate at the places of work rather than at border crossings. How is it possible to prove someone is 'working' on a tourist visa as they enter the country at the border, much easier if you can catch them 'bang to rights' in the act, at their place of work.

Edited September 21, 2014 by PREM-R

[Spoonman]

"If they do wrong, than arrest them".

Maybe they should look towards arresting the people who run the visa run services for aiding and abetting.

That's absurd. Until the crackdown. the visa runners weren't breaching any rules that were being actively enforced - they were lining up to get stamps that were willingly placed in their passports by Thai Immigration and contributing to the economies of a couple of border towns in the process. I'm not thrilled about the way this crackdown has been implemented either, but to paint visa runners as criminals is way OTT.

And in case you're wondering, I've had two tourist visas, no back-to-back 30-day exemptions and zero land border entries in the last 4 years. I'm now here on an extension of stay based on retirement till Sept 2015 when I fully intend to apply for a further 12 month stay. In short, I have no interest in the visa run industry and no need for their services, but I dont see that they've done anything illegal.

Obviously your sarcasm detector is not functioning.

Saying that if no laws were being broken why the need for the crackdown ?

[meatboy]

by all means lets have a crack down with all them that dont abide by the rules.

but lets have some savvy with the ones who abide by the rules.

eg.married 25yrs,thai wife,but being treated no different to someone on probation,90day reporting.

consider them that have perminant address in thailand for longer extension of stay.

thats enough for the time being.

THANK YOU MEATBOY

[MrWorldwide]

"If they do wrong, than arrest them".

Maybe they should look towards arresting the people who run the visa run services for aiding and abetting.

That's absurd. Until the crackdown. the visa runners weren't breaching any rules that were being actively enforced - they were lining up to get stamps that were willingly placed in their passports by Thai Immigration and contributing to the economies of a couple of border towns in the process. I'm not thrilled about the way this crackdown has been implemented either, but to paint visa runners as criminals is way OTT.

And in case you're wondering, I've had two tourist visas, no back-to-back 30-day exemptions and zero land border entries in the last 4 years. I'm now here on an extension of stay based on retirement till Sept 2015 when I fully intend to apply for a further 12 month stay. In short, I have no interest in the visa run industry and no need for their services, but I dont see that they've done anything illegal.

Obviously your sarcasm detector is not functioning.

Saying that if no laws were being broken why the need for the crackdown ?

Ok - you got me but we both know that there are some here who genuinely believe the visa runners are criminals. The crackdown was supposed to target illegal workers - and I accept that some of those were/are visa runners - and deliberate recidivist overstayers. If anything, the people lining up for stamps were at least making an attempt to play Immigration's game - albeit without applying for the appropriate visa. The problems only started when someone in power sat up one morning and thought 'Aaah - maybe it's time we started enforcing a few of our own rules'.

The main targets of the crackdown were originally supposed to be Russians, Koreans and Vietnamese - not sure how many of those folk ever got in a minibus for the kamikaze run to the border but hopefully Immigration met its quota for 'undesirables' and we can get back to the days of a bored IO taking a quick glance at our passports before waving us through.

[scavenger]

Catching illegal teachers should be very easy: immigration officers just need to walk in a language school on a Saturday and ask to see the work permits.

Asking "visa-runners" to show how they earn their living would be legitimate; assuming they are all criminals is not.

But crackdowns are only part of solving the problem. Paying teachers enough would ensure an adequate supply of qualified ones. And they should lift the restrictions on types of employment for foreigners married to Thais.

[bertty]

Catching illegal Russians workers is so easy that you have to not want to catch them if you don't.

Take a walk down walking street any night of the week, plenty of blond haired slappers shaking their asses yards from the so called tourist police.

Please don't tell me they are legal.

[wayned]

IMHO the crackdown by immigration is eliminating an effect, but not addressing the cause. If they addressed the cause, employers and workers you are illegally working without work permits, the abuse of the system would decrease. All that they are doing by cracking down on the back to back visa exempt entries is driving those people to get tourist visas or extensions of stay but they are going to continue to work illegally unless there is a serious crackdown on workers without work permits and employers who allow people to work illegally without one and that is not the responsibility of immigration. Maybe it;s time for the whole work permit system to be evaluated.

[YeahSiam]

 

And they should lift the restrictions on types of employment for foreigners married to Thais.

 

Why?

[yellowboat]

My view sir

If it stops criminals/terrorists from living in Thailand illegaly, then so be it.

At the expense of the innocent ? What a timid comment.

[drand11]

Really has nothing to do with terrorists/ criminals. They can always run a background check on people as they initially enter the country.

[KittenKong]

They know exactly that these Foreigner made all efforts to stay legally in the country.

The people doing multiple back-to-back visa runs presumably haven't made much effort, if any, to stay in the country legally.

There are many ways of being legal here: retirement extensions, marriage extensions, work permits, investment visas, even the Thailand Elite Card for anyone under 50 who who cant stand the idea of being married or working. Those who chose not to opt for one of those legal methods ended up doing back-to-back visa runs and finally by being targeted at the border, which should come as no real surprise to anyone.

[sustento]

They know exactly that these Foreigner made all efforts to stay legally in the country.

The people doing multiple back-to-back visa runs presumably haven't made much effort, if any, to stay in the country legally.

There are many ways of being legal here: retirement extensions, marriage extensions, work permits, investment visas, even the Thailand Elite Card for anyone under 50 who who cant stand the idea of being married or working. Those who chose not to opt for one of those legal methods ended up doing back-to-back visa runs and finally by being targeted at the border, which should come as no real surprise to anyone.

And it's their behaviour that led to the recent crackdown. If you take the p1ss for long enough you must expect a little retribution.

[Suradit69]

as a operator directly affected by the changes I still scratch my head of why.

Dealt mainly with people here illegally then did you? Otherwise, why would it matter to your business?

[brianp0803]

I suspicious how people on tourist visa for have sevetal years have enough money without working.

How many 30 year olds were clever enough and ambitious enough to earn enough money to take a two year holiday in Thailand and then quit working and relax?

There may be some but not many.

Most successful people keep working trying to earn more money.

I have no facts but from general conversation the vast majority of long term people on tourist and educational visas are earning money in Thailand.

I have heard some people over 50 are doing visa runs but can't understand why. A retirement visa is very easy for westerners to qualify. The qualifications would be poverty wages in your own country

[Kabula]

They don't know exactly where these people work and stay. Let's say that I was a illegal working teacher. Do you belive I would tell them that when I made a visa/border run? And my real address instead of just writing down a hotel name?

Your wrong about that. If you have a smart phone they know where you are and I guarantee your on facial recognition and every time you go in a mall or on the BTS and walk city streets they will track you down in time with Google map cloud technology. Now you can be identified by ear and gant recognition.

All passport photos worldwide along with other federal and state ID's along with Facebook photos end up in a facial recognition program.

Even if your phone is off, new technology in new smart phones pulls energy from Wi Fi signals to give it enough power to check you out with voice and camera, along tracking you.

If you want privacy, toss the computer, smart phone, old cell phone, go off the grid and live in a cave!

[zeichen]

"They can always run a background check on people as they initially enter the country."

Yes because all government agencies in the world are all linked by some super spy computer that shares all criminal histories of all people.

FYI it is impossible to do a criminal background check on every single person entering the country. The only ones that will be on their computers are those that are flagged not every single person who has committed a crime.

The issue is that people "on holiday" for 6 months + are rare. Most people need to work to provide a living. There are many people that are actually working here but don't have the proper visas. I do echo the above posters as saying that these border hoppers are a symptom and not the cause of the problem.

However, I have no problem with getting rid of non tourists who actually aren't building the economy. Sorry but they just aren't. They are not building industry, or putting their money into the system, they are spending their money at other illegal businesses. There are so many illegal businesses owned and operated by foreigners in these tourist areas. I have met dozens of Russians, Koreans, and Chinese that own tour operating businesses.

There are as many foreign scammers as their are locals and if these measures help reduce that, I am all for it.

I just wish that they would give marriage visas a break for a while. I had to show pictures of my wife and daughter and myself in our house in our bedroom, in front of the house. They came to my house and interrogated my neighbors. I have been married for 12 years. You would think by now they would just accept people's marriage.

[NoshowJones]

I suspicious how people on tourist visa for have sevetal years have enough money without working.

How many 30 year olds were clever enough and ambitious enough to earn enough money to take a two year holiday in Thailand and then quit working and relax?

There may be some but not many.

Most successful people keep working trying to earn more money.

I have no facts but from general conversation the vast majority of long term people on tourist and educational visas are earning money in Thailand.

I have heard some people over 50 are doing visa runs but can't understand why. A retirement visa is very easy for westerners to qualify. The qualifications would be poverty wages in your own country

That would depend on the country.

[Kabula]

My only annoyance is the fact Bangkok Immigration does not always follow the current written rule of law regarding visa retirement extensions when applying with the combination foreign income and Thai bank fixed savings account option. For years they set a precedent and suddenly without warning changed the rules shocking the Bangkok retirees. Other offices, as I understand still follow the old rules.

I understand we are under Marshall Law and that orders can supersede written rule of law which leads to confusion and many surprises for retirees that have lived and paid taxes here for years only to find their extension denied and they are forced to leave and start the process all over again.

Many of the Immigration offices are not consistent in their decisions regarding the above.

I have lived here for 9 years and over the years have asked 4 law firms questions regarding visas and in most cases when I was instructed regarding time limits on bank letters, early application submitting, and income verification Embassy letters, In most cases I was given inaccurate information. I always had to do the work myself to get satisfactory results for my timelines. I've even submitted recent Thai law to a lawyer who was not aware of time limit changes on Embassy income verification letters from 15 days to 6 months. They still tell customers if the letters are over 15 days they have to go back and spend a fair amount of money to get a current letter. It is all very frustrating.

Oh well, I still love the country! Compared to most countries today, my frustrations are very minor. The pluses far out way the negatives.

I often think about how many expats are forced to leave and monthly I see less and less customers in high end bars and restaurants.

I wonder what the high tourist season will be like with a worldwide economic retreat?

I feel sorry for the visa run companies who provided such great services over the years. Seems small businesses are taking a hit worldwide.

[Timwin]

Crackdown on visa exempt entries was NOT targeted against western farangs, it was targeted to all those hundreds of thousands of illegal workers from nearby countries. A Thai employer commented in a newspaper that the ongoing rate used to be about 10000 Baht per year per illegal worker but now it is better to go legal and apply for work permits for them.

[brianp0803]

Its ok to have a foreigner owned business if you have enough thai staff

I hear rumors most language school teachers don't have work permits and do visa runs.

I think most teachers would prefer to be legal.

I think language school teaches contribute to Thailand.

If you true, then why is it difficult for them to get work permits?

Is the school lazy or not paying taxes to qualify to issue work permits.?

Transient workers?

No degree?

[brianp0803]

Kabula,

I like how you expressed you frustration but still have positive feelings.

I agree that changing and inconsistent rules are frustrating but this is part of living in a 3rd world country.

[ggt]

The visa crackdown...as do most things in Thailand...cracks me up!

[nithisa78]

Do not despair. This is temporary correction. Your business will pick up - better than before.

Honesty , always the best policy. Lift up your heart.

[TheSpade]

If it stops criminals/terrorists from living in Thailand illegaly, then so be it.

You seem to be confused.

A criminal is someone who breaks the law.

That has nothing to do with someone doing a border run.

Why would terrorists be living in Thailand doing border runs?

How does a clamp down on border runs stop criminality?

If someone is so intent to break the law do you think a clamp down on border runs would bother them?

Wouldn't they just go underground or get a fake passport? I mean they openly sell them at Kowsarn Road.

There's no logic or connection between your statement and border runs.

Maybe they should look towards arresting the people who run the visa run services for aiding and abetting.

You mean arrest the Thai immigration officials who are stamping you in and out the country, surely?

How is someone who runs a mini van company doing anything wrong?

And doing border runs isn't actually illegal. Never has been. Still isn't now.

No one is breaking any laws.

This is something Thai Immigration allows to happen

The people doing multiple back-to-back visa runs presumably haven't made much effort, if any, to stay in the country legally.

There are many ways of being legal here: retirement extensions, marriage extensions, work permits, investment visas, even the Thailand Elite Card for anyone under 50 who who cant stand the idea of being married or working. Those who chose not to opt for one of those legal methods ended up doing back-to-back visa runs and finally by being targeted at the border, which should come as no real surprise to any

If going on a suicide 12hr mini van mission every 30 days putting your life in the hands of a yabba'd up lunatic driver just to remain in Thailaland isn't "much effort" then I don't know what is.

Again, border runs are LEGAL. This was and is LEGAL. They are abiding by the law. They haven't done anything wrong. Hence why Thai immigration stamps them in and out day after day.

A lot of you seem to be confused. Border runs have NOT been made illegal.

Not everyone is old enough to retire. Not everyone wants to get married to a Thai or work in the kingdom (who would!), nor invest into dodgy property, deal with the headaches of running a business, nor waste 500k on an elite card that may or may not be valid in a years time.

So let's not pretend there are lots of great options for long term stay for the young, single, and well off enough not to need a 'regular' 9-5 job. The only real 'long term' option is the ED visa otherwise you need to do back to back tourist / border runs which means going in and out the country continuously.

I suspicious how people on tourist visa for have sevetal years have enough money without working.

How many 30 year olds were clever enough and ambitious enough to earn enough money to take a two year holiday in Thailand and then quit working and relax?

There may be some but not many.

Most successful people keep working trying to earn more money.

I have no facts but from general conversation the vast majority of long term people on tourist and educational visas are earning money in Thailand.

I have heard some people over 50 are doing visa runs but can't understand why. A retirement visa is very easy for westerners to qualify. The qualifications would be poverty wages in your own country

Income from rental property back home?

Retired early?

Business back home?

Online income?

Trust funds?

Work for 6-12 months then travel for 6-12 months?

Many reasons why people can come here and spend a long time without working that isn't anything dodgy.

This is 2014 and some of you need to wake up and realize the world has moved on. Not everyone has to work 50 years of their life in a traditional job holding out for retirement to move abroad / travel

And why many over 50 are doing visa runs...they don't have the money needed to get the retirement visa.

Worked hard all their lives following this apparently fool proof method where you'd retire with loads of money and live the dream life after 50 years of slogging it out....only to end up broke and struggling and having to move to Thailand just to be able to survive as they can't afford to live in the West.