Scotland trip for work not sightseeing, Thai EC insists

[fab4]

What "government", oh, the NLA? What does it matter if they are not part of "government", what bearing at all does that have on what I said? In case it escaped your notice the junta has total power here.

My excuses, I assumed you were discussing the topic of the EC traveling a bit. I should have known better indeed.

If you actually read the post that you were replying to instead of just posting knee jerk reactions because of who posted it, you might make more sense. Oh by the way the off topic Schtick is wearing thin now rubl. You don't practise it yourself so stop being so hypocritical.

I did indead reply to a post which was dragging us off topic, trying to distract us from the Scotland trip by suggesting that the real point was the need for the NCPO to be whiter than snow.

Terribly sorry that I don't fall for that by now well known fabby trick.

So, please stop being hypocritical in telling people they didn't reply correctly on your distracting posts in which you told them they missed the point of the junta being responsible rather than having fun with an expressly independent organisation getting a wee dram in Scotland.

Use my proper user name rubl, or is that another rule that doesn't apply to you old timers? You don't have to reply to my posts, in fact that would be preferable.

The only person having fun with an................"expressly independent organisation" is you for even suggesting that they are.

[cacruden]

rubl "Ahem, the E.C. is not part of the government. One of the things the previous government was lamenting about."

What "government", oh, the NLA? What does it matter if they are not part of "government", what bearing at all does that have on what I said? In case it escaped your notice the junta has total power here.

My excuses, I assumed you were discussing the topic of the EC traveling a bit. I should have known better indeed.

If you actually read the post that you were replying to instead of just posting knee jerk reactions because of who posted it, you might make more sense. Oh by the way the off topic Schtick is wearing thin now rubl. You don't practise it yourself so stop being so hypocritical.

I did indead reply to a post which was dragging us off topic, trying to distract us from the Scotland trip by suggesting that the real point was the need for the NCPO to be whiter than snow.

Terribly sorry that I don't fall for that by now well known fabby trick.

So, please stop being hypocritical in telling people they didn't reply correctly on your distracting posts in which you told them they missed the point of the junta being responsible rather than having fun with an expressly independent organisation getting a wee dram in Scotland.

There are NO independent organizations after the coup, there was only one clause left in the constitution and that was to protect the crown. People are being pushed out on police, in crown corporations, etc. The NCPO have intervened in legal (land) issues, in policing, etc.... all in the name of eliminating corruption. The EC is corrupt, therefore it needs to be replaced. Zero tolerance for government and police organizations. Equate corruption with treason since corruption is the practice of selling the government to the highest bidder etc. If they really want this to succeed they cannot be seen as just changing the pockets the money goes into. They have set the standard high, and now they have to live with it.

[rubl]

My excuses, I assumed you were discussing the topic of the EC traveling a bit. I should have known better indeed.

If you actually read the post that you were replying to instead of just posting knee jerk reactions because of who posted it, you might make more sense. Oh by the way the off topic Schtick is wearing thin now rubl. You don't practise it yourself so stop being so hypocritical.

I did indead reply to a post which was dragging us off topic, trying to distract us from the Scotland trip by suggesting that the real point was the need for the NCPO to be whiter than snow.

Terribly sorry that I don't fall for that by now well known fabby trick.

So, please stop being hypocritical in telling people they didn't reply correctly on your distracting posts in which you told them they missed the point of the junta being responsible rather than having fun with an expressly independent organisation getting a wee dram in Scotland.

Use my proper user name rubl, or is that another rule that doesn't apply to you old timers? You don't have to reply to my posts, in fact that would be preferable.

The only person having fun with an................"expressly independent organisation" is you for even suggesting that they are.

My dear Fab4 esq., do you want to imply I was correct, but only used the wrong name? Should I have written "fab4 trick"?

The only person having fun with the topic seems to be me. Others, you included, seems to want to drag of to pastures you deem "greener"

[rubl]

Terribly sorry that I don't fall for that by now well known fabby trick.

So, please stop being hypocritical in telling people they didn't reply correctly on your distracting posts in which you told them they missed the point of the junta being responsible rather than having fun with an expressly independent organisation getting a wee dram in Scotland.

There are NO independent organizations after the coup, there was only one clause left in the constitution and that was to protect the crown. People are being pushed out on police, in crown corporations, etc. The NCPO have intervened in legal (land) issues, in policing, etc.... all in the name of eliminating corruption. The EC is corrupt, therefore it needs to be replaced. Zero tolerance for government and police organizations. Equate corruption with treason since corruption is the practice of selling the government to the highest bidder etc. If they really want this to succeed they cannot be seen as just changing the pockets the money goes into. They have set the standard high, and now they have to live with it.

So much to do and so little time.

To Prioritarise is difficult with so many issues. Some decisions may already get an ad-hoc flavour to them.

If the NCPO dismissed the E.C. they would be condemned for interfering in part of the 'election process' and some here would say "see, they don't want elections". If they appointed a new E.C. they would be seen as dictatorial and some here would say they only made sure that elections would be fixed. Doesn't leave many acceptable options, now does it?

Edited September 23, 2014 by rubl

[cacruden]

Terribly sorry that I don't fall for that by now well known fabby trick.

So, please stop being hypocritical in telling people they didn't reply correctly on your distracting posts in which you told them they missed the point of the junta being responsible rather than having fun with an expressly independent organisation getting a wee dram in Scotland.

There are NO independent organizations after the coup, there was only one clause left in the constitution and that was to protect the crown. People are being pushed out on police, in crown corporations, etc. The NCPO have intervened in legal (land) issues, in policing, etc.... all in the name of eliminating corruption. The EC is corrupt, therefore it needs to be replaced. Zero tolerance for government and police organizations. Equate corruption with treason since corruption is the practice of selling the government to the highest bidder etc. If they really want this to succeed they cannot be seen as just changing the pockets the money goes into. They have set the standard high, and now they have to live with it.

So much to do and so little time.

To Prioritarise is difficult with so many issues. Some decisions may already get an ad-hoc flavour to them.

If the NCPO dismissed the E.C. they would be condemned for interfering in part of the 'election process' and some here would say "see, they don't want elections". If they appointed a new E.C. they would be seen as dictatorial and some here would say they only made sure that elections would be fixed. Doesn't leave many acceptable options, now does it?

They have lots of options and lots of power. The current EC is not seen positively by all sides, it therefore now cannot be seen as impartial. It has already failed to do it's job in the past, gave lots of excuses etc. Has used taxpayer money for personal junkets.... There are no redeeming value in keeping the current EC as it is. Add that responsibility for organizing future elections in the NRC - and just fire the current council. When time is near for the election to be called - have the NRC appoint a single individual acceptable to all sides from a list of candidates that have a reputation for getting things done and have a reputation of fairness (there has to be at least one in all of Thailand). In the meantime there is no need to continue having this farce of a group being paid to take holidays. I have 2 sisters in the civil service (a few levels below the top level (i.e. very senior)), and even in their position they would never be able to get away with this type of shenanigans.

[cacruden]

So much to do and so little time.

To Prioritarise is difficult with so many issues. Some decisions may already get an ad-hoc flavour to them.

If the NCPO dismissed the E.C. they would be condemned for interfering in part of the 'election process' and some here would say "see, they don't want elections". If they appointed a new E.C. they would be seen as dictatorial and some here would say they only made sure that elections would be fixed. Doesn't leave many acceptable options, now does it?

Apparently right now taxis, vendor stands in Phuket, jet skis are all high priority than a corrupt EC

[rubl]

So much to do and so little time.

To Prioritarise is difficult with so many issues. Some decisions may already get an ad-hoc flavour to them.

If the NCPO dismissed the E.C. they would be condemned for interfering in part of the 'election process' and some here would say "see, they don't want elections". If they appointed a new E.C. they would be seen as dictatorial and some here would say they only made sure that elections would be fixed. Doesn't leave many acceptable options, now does it?

Apparently right now taxis, vendor stands in Phuket, jet skis are all high priority than a corrupt EC

Allegedly corrupt E.C. Mind you if no side sees the E.C. as positive maybe they are doing their job correctly ?

I agree cleanup Phuket was of high priority, it would seem a previous Dept. PM tasked to do the job, only said to need 90 days and is still writing the "mission accomplished" report after two years.

The E.C. is of no importance at the moment as we'll first get reforms including the regulations governing the E.C. followed by needing an E.C. to organise an election. Let's hope 'election reforms' is high on the list of one of the NRC committees and that enough input comes to make a proposal acceptable by most Thais. We'd really dislike having to ask the NCPO to stay on a bit longer while things get sorted out, now don't we ?

[cacruden]

So much to do and so little time.

To Prioritarise is difficult with so many issues. Some decisions may already get an ad-hoc flavour to them.

If the NCPO dismissed the E.C. they would be condemned for interfering in part of the 'election process' and some here would say "see, they don't want elections". If they appointed a new E.C. they would be seen as dictatorial and some here would say they only made sure that elections would be fixed. Doesn't leave many acceptable options, now does it?

Apparently right now taxis, vendor stands in Phuket, jet skis are all high priority than a corrupt EC

Allegedly corrupt E.C. Mind you if no side sees the E.C. as positive maybe they are doing their job correctly ?

I agree cleanup Phuket was of high priority, it would seem a previous Dept. PM tasked to do the job, only said to need 90 days and is still writing the "mission accomplished" report after two years.

The E.C. is of no importance at the moment as we'll first get reforms including the regulations governing the E.C. followed by needing an E.C. to organise an election. Let's hope 'election reforms' is high on the list of one of the NRC committees and that enough input comes to make a proposal acceptable by most Thais. We'd really dislike having to ask the NCPO to stay on a bit longer while things get sorted out, now don't we ?

If I had employees using corporate money for personal junkets.... I would fire them.... because they are corrupt. If I have employees that fail to do their job and just give me a bunch of excuses - they would be fired too. I see things very simply - if you cannot do the job that you are suppose to do and you use taxpayer money for your own personal holidays .... you are not worth the money you are being paid. You are right, the EC is of no importance right now.... so why pay them to take holidays?

[rubl]

So much to do and so little time.

To Prioritarise is difficult with so many issues. Some decisions may already get an ad-hoc flavour to them.

If the NCPO dismissed the E.C. they would be condemned for interfering in part of the 'election process' and some here would say "see, they don't want elections". If they appointed a new E.C. they would be seen as dictatorial and some here would say they only made sure that elections would be fixed. Doesn't leave many acceptable options, now does it?

Apparently right now taxis, vendor stands in Phuket, jet skis are all high priority than a corrupt EC

Allegedly corrupt E.C. Mind you if no side sees the E.C. as positive maybe they are doing their job correctly ?

I agree cleanup Phuket was of high priority, it would seem a previous Dept. PM tasked to do the job, only said to need 90 days and is still writing the "mission accomplished" report after two years.

The E.C. is of no importance at the moment as we'll first get reforms including the regulations governing the E.C. followed by needing an E.C. to organise an election. Let's hope 'election reforms' is high on the list of one of the NRC committees and that enough input comes to make a proposal acceptable by most Thais. We'd really dislike having to ask the NCPO to stay on a bit longer while things get sorted out, now don't we ?

If I had employees using corporate money for personal junkets.... I would fire them.... because they are corrupt. If I have employees that fail to do their job and just give me a bunch of excuses - they would be fired too. I see things very simply - if you cannot do the job that you are suppose to do and you use taxpayer money for your own personal holidays .... you are not worth the money you are being paid. You are right, the EC is of no importance right now.... so why pay them to take holidays?

There seems to be a link missing, between your employees stealing or not doing their job and the E.C. which is alleged by many, not till now not formally charged with any, that is.

BTW this was not a holiday, an information gathering trip, although as with many trips officials make one may argue about the usefulness.

Edited September 24, 2014 by rubl

[Cake Monster]

This guy Somchai, must really have been over awed by Scotland as a " political scientist ".

In todays (23rd) " Bangkok Post " there is a picture of him wearing a Scottish pin on his jacket lapel.

[cacruden]

There seems to be a link missing, between your employees stealing or not doing their job and the E.C. which is alleged by many, not till now not formally charged with any, that is.

BTW this was not a holiday, an information gathering trip, although as with many trips officials make one may argue about the usefulness.

They won't be charged - the right people can do no wrong. That is one of the biggest problems with Thailand - corruption is ok as long as the money goes into the right pockets.... I am afraid you're delusional if you really believe this junket was funded for the purposes of gathering information -- what do you think they are suppose to get out of it? Corruption does not begin and end with bribes. When you are trying to tackle out of control problems you have to take a zero-tolerance approach to all abuses -- and punish all those that try to skirt by.

Edited September 24, 2014 by cacruden

[rubl]

There seems to be a link missing, between your employees stealing or not doing their job and the E.C. which is alleged by many, not till now not formally charged with any, that is.

BTW this was not a holiday, an information gathering trip, although as with many trips officials make one may argue about the usefulness.

They won't be charged - the right people can do no wrong. That is one of the biggest problems with Thailand - corruption is ok as long as the money goes into the right pockets.... I am afraid you're delusional if you really believe this junket was funded for the purposes of gathering information -- what do you think they are suppose to get out of it? Corruption does not begin and end with bribes. When you are trying to tackle out of control problems you have to take a zero-tolerance approach to all abuses -- and punish all those that try to skirt by.

They can be charged. They can be convicted. All depends on the evidence.

s for delusional, weel, did you notice my "as with many trips officials make one may argue about the usefulness"

[aussieinthailand]

Not to difficult to find out just who went and time spent and total cost to tax payers to observe the referendum, which is completely irrelevant to Thailand.

And having some people charged for even suggesting a referendum of independence, any one recall that?

The fact of the matter is and almost all know it,,, the Thai financial year is coming up so the money in the budget has to be spent or returned, this happens all over Thailand not just politicians, ie, local government workers, school teachers and hospitals, etc, etc, etc,,,, the bigger the budget and the position you hold the bigger and better the (holiday) fact finding mission.

So where oh where are all the TV posters that praised the EC not to long ago, saying they are doing a great job, professional, good people.

Had a little change of heart have we? EC tried as they could to avoid doing their job but once told do your job as legally required, they had no choice, so change of plan, just lock doors and gates, the end result is the same, people were robbed of their say on the whim of a few.

The point of the trip was, possible, to learn from the process, procedures and governance of the referendum held in a democratic country without fear, bribery or intimidation. That would be well worth learning.

The actual topic of the referendum is not important if your learning is aimed at the process.

You are advocating public accountability and transparency for overseas trips by government and public officials. Very good. So you will support a full audit of expenses, cost / benefits of all the record number of overseas trips made by the previous PM/DM and all the overseas trips made by members of the government, politicians, civil servants and serving police officers when they happened to bump into a wanted Thai fugitive criminal?

Referendum's are not irrelevant to Thailand. Where did you get that idea?

Yu'p fully support all inquiries into budget expenditure where the tax payers foot the bill, REGARDLESS of the political faction they are in, accountability for all, that answer your question?

second, if you read my post I was referring to a referendum of independence, that is what Scotland had and is illegal to suggest it here in LOS.

Now the EC are supposed to be the experts in organizing an elections in LOS, so I ask you, is it right and proper for the whole gang to cruse UK and other country's with family's and the tax pater foots the bill? or could it be just as effective for say a few, or better yet read the rule book on it and follow it...

[aussieinthailand]

This man is also banned from Australian soil.

And the Europeans should follow suit

Why on earth would the Europeans 'follow suit" on the ludicrous decisions made my the silly government of an irrelevant nation?

If that's not a statement designed to get a bit then it sure looks like it, but ok here goes,

I'll bet the Europeans would have liked their "silly government of an irrelevant nation" economy of OZ while theirs was falling apart, Oh wait so what country's still owe rather large sums of money too who? and various other bail out funds?? so what do you have against Australia to warrant such comment?

[SPB65]

Fair play to him, I've also done plenty of sightseeing under the guise of work.

Democracy in Thailand however will still be as elusive as the Loch Ness monster.

[tso310]

They're probably wondering when the military coup in Scotland is going to take place.

[metisdead]

It never fails, the same two posters in every political thread seem to stalking one another, perhaps this forum rule should be reviewed:

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[Jim walker]

And he positavely wont be at the Rider Cup for the golf