Supreme Court grants bail to redshirt activist Jeng Dokjik

[rubl]

Strictly speaking the application of the law on LM hasn't changed much over the years. As such it's not related to the coup.

I do hope though that a new constitution will be somewhat more modern in relation to LM.

You say you support the coup, but Prayuth has made it very clear that he wants the LM laws enforced more strictly.

I've gone on record saying to regret it (i.e. the coup) was necessary.

Now please explain your question, assuming the reply is such rather than some suggestive and false statement.

If you believe the coup "was necessary", then you support it.

Maybe it's much more pragmatism which doesn't mean 100% support, similar to Yingluck supporters who also might not be behind her for the full 100% percent.

[ThailandNoob]

I don't really see how it's a political tool when politicians (or those in power) are not the ones using it.

Of course it is more likely that one side will be charged more than the other, but that doesn't make it a political tool.

If people from one side are more likely to be charged than the other, then the other side can use it as a political tool by increasing the enforcement of it.

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[tbthailand]

answering R and W : I doubt that I can post a link but generally, as Fab4 mentioned, AI is the source for most of the counting. Others are also actively tracking LM cases.

Regarding nearly quadrupled, pre-coup there were 6 people (known) to be in prison for LM, currently (within the last week) the count was 22. Just a few weeks before it was 20, so (sadly) I am just waiting a couple of weeks for 2 more and we'll be at a dead-even 4x.

For W - no, it is actually not just because more people are talking about it, but because more people are being charged. Almost every case I can think of since the coup has been a case which occurred well before the coup - the BKK taxi driver who had a conversation with a spineless royalist about inequality in Thai society. That was in January. The cab fare recorded the conversation and filed for charges just after the coup. The 2 students in the play - that was a year ago. The guy who sent a link to a website via email - that is new, but the event was in 2010 and the web site no longer even exists.

LM is spiking because it is a political tool, not because more people are violating Article 112.

But hey, as long as you don't do anything wrong, Art 112 is not a problem, right?

BS aside, I suggest you read the A.I. report. Even from my Internet connection in Thailand I could find and copy it.

Nowhere does it say what you claimed "the number of people in prison for LM since the coup has nearly quadrupled".

Of course you seem to have missed the references to "The 2005 Emergency Decree [162], I, 2007 Computer Crimes Act (CCA) and Article 112 of the Penal Code – Thailand’s ‘lèse majesté’ law" and "Over the last nine years, restrictions have increasingly been imposed"

BS aside? Rubl, really?

So, ...

Why would you seemingly assume that I had not read the AI report when I mention that AI is one source for counting cases and there are others.

The increase in the number of people in prison since the coup was not a number directly from AI, although AI has reported that 14 new cases had been brought since the coup.

Given the rapid increase in cases, the numbers change every month. Current number of people incarcerated for LM in Thailand is 22. Before the coup, that was 6.

The military junta defends this number by saying these were all due to events and cases which occurred before the coup (which rebuts Whybother's speculation about the cause).

While it is true that most if not all the current cases are for events that occurred before the coup, that doesn't actually mean anything regarding LM charges. Unlike, say a burglary, LM is a "violation" for which charging a person is purely a voluntary act, a choice, a decision. In addition, the violation is itself is not based on the act, but on the interpretation of the act. Were the students in "The Wolf's Bride" committing LM?

As an example, the case of Jeng, he was convicted not because he actually said something about the monarchy, but because the court believed that he was implying something about he monarchy.

Pointers, pointers, who needs pointers when we have a tbthailand telling us all. Almost like we're supposed to believe anything the NCPO tells us.

why do you troll like that?

[tbthailand]

answering R and W : I doubt that I can post a link but generally, as Fab4 mentioned, AI is the source for most of the counting. Others are also actively tracking LM cases.

Regarding nearly quadrupled, pre-coup there were 6 people (known) to be in prison for LM, currently (within the last week) the count was 22. Just a few weeks before it was 20, so (sadly) I am just waiting a couple of weeks for 2 more and we'll be at a dead-even 4x.

For W - no, it is actually not just because more people are talking about it, but because more people are being charged. Almost every case I can think of since the coup has been a case which occurred well before the coup - the BKK taxi driver who had a conversation with a spineless royalist about inequality in Thai society. That was in January. The cab fare recorded the conversation and filed for charges just after the coup. The 2 students in the play - that was a year ago. The guy who sent a link to a website via email - that is new, but the event was in 2010 and the web site no longer even exists.

LM is spiking because it is a political tool, not because more people are violating Article 112.

But hey, as long as you don't do anything wrong, Art 112 is not a problem, right?

It increased by 16 and you know about 4 that were committed before the coup. So that's 12 others. Any idea when they are from or who they are?

I don't really see how it's a political tool when politicians (or those in power) are not the ones using it.

Of course it is more likely that one side will be charged more than the other, but that doesn't make it a political tool.

And, to repeat, I don't like the law. I am not defending it. I am just commenting on your interpretation of how "it is being used".

for the other 12, I don't know when the LM was alleged to take place, although I have not heard of any LM case brought since the coup which was after the coup - there was the lady holding a sign in front of the US Embassy on July 4th - her sign said 'long live USA day' and they wanted to charge her for LM, but (so far) did not.

tracking LM cases is difficult even for the organizations like AI - they will say that even they don't know the total number.

re: political tool, the law is fundamentally a political tool. As I mentioned, you do not have to do anything 'wrong'. It is sufficient that someone thinks that you did something 'wrong'. Again: in this case in the OP, Jeng was not convicted for what he said. He was convicted for how the court interpreted what he did not say.

That seems political to me.

I acknowledge that you don't like the law. We probably agree that the purpose of the law is inherently political. I think you don't agree with me that the current application of the law is political. Is that right?

[rubl]

Pointers, pointers, who needs pointers when we have a tbthailand telling us all. Almost like we're supposed to believe anything the NCPO tells us.

why do you troll like that?

Why do you make statements you can't properly support which suggest you're just telling us your opinion which is OK, but even opinions shouldn't mess with known figures.

[tbthailand]

BS aside, I suggest you read the A.I. report. Even from my Internet connection in Thailand I could find and copy it.

Nowhere does it say what you claimed "the number of people in prison for LM since the coup has nearly quadrupled".

Of course you seem to have missed the references to "The 2005 Emergency Decree [162], I, 2007 Computer Crimes Act (CCA) and Article 112 of the Penal Code – Thailand’s ‘lèse majesté’ law" and "Over the last nine years, restrictions have increasingly been imposed"

BS aside? Rubl, really?

So, ...

Why would you seemingly assume that I had not read the AI report when I mention that AI is one source for counting cases and there are others.

The increase in the number of people in prison since the coup was not a number directly from AI, although AI has reported that 14 new cases had been brought since the coup.

Given the rapid increase in cases, the numbers change every month. Current number of people incarcerated for LM in Thailand is 22. Before the coup, that was 6.

The military junta defends this number by saying these were all due to events and cases which occurred before the coup (which rebuts Whybother's speculation about the cause).

While it is true that most if not all the current cases are for events that occurred before the coup, that doesn't actually mean anything regarding LM charges. Unlike, say a burglary, LM is a "violation" for which charging a person is purely a voluntary act, a choice, a decision. In addition, the violation is itself is not based on the act, but on the interpretation of the act. Were the students in "The Wolf's Bride" committing LM?

As an example, the case of Jeng, he was convicted not because he actually said something about the monarchy, but because the court believed that he was implying something about he monarchy.

Pointers, pointers, who needs pointers when we have a tbthailand telling us all. Almost like we're supposed to believe anything the NCPO tells us.

said rubl, not obfuscating (a current favourite) whilst ignoring the fact that whilst 6 cases before the coup and another 16 in just 4 months, is not exactly quadrupling the number of cases of LM and therefore in his world can be safely ignored, it does represent a sizeable jump and, like the abhisit governments handling of LM cases in the past, could be construed as using LM "politically" and not in the manner it was meant to be applied.

ah, c'mon, let's all join hands with rubl and get back OT.

I did mean the number of people incarcerated now compared to before the coup. That is just one angle wrt LM, but is directly related to the denial of bail for LM cases.

Oops, that's already OT. Never mind....

[tbthailand]

Pointers, pointers, who needs pointers when we have a tbthailand telling us all. Almost like we're supposed to believe anything the NCPO tells us.

why do you troll like that?

Why do you make statements you can't properly support which suggest you're just telling us your opinion which is OK, but even opinions shouldn't mess with known figures.

I give numbers - so why do your really troll like that?

[rubl]

answering R and W : I doubt that I can post a link but generally, as Fab4 mentioned, AI is the source for most of the counting. Others are also actively tracking LM cases.

Regarding nearly quadrupled, pre-coup there were 6 people (known) to be in prison for LM, currently (within the last week) the count was 22. Just a few weeks before it was 20, so (sadly) I am just waiting a couple of weeks for 2 more and we'll be at a dead-even 4x.

For W - no, it is actually not just because more people are talking about it, but because more people are being charged. Almost every case I can think of since the coup has been a case which occurred well before the coup - the BKK taxi driver who had a conversation with a spineless royalist about inequality in Thai society. That was in January. The cab fare recorded the conversation and filed for charges just after the coup. The 2 students in the play - that was a year ago. The guy who sent a link to a website via email - that is new, but the event was in 2010 and the web site no longer even exists.

LM is spiking because it is a political tool, not because more people are violating Article 112.

But hey, as long as you don't do anything wrong, Art 112 is not a problem, right?

It increased by 16 and you know about 4 that were committed before the coup. So that's 12 others. Any idea when they are from or who they are?

I don't really see how it's a political tool when politicians (or those in power) are not the ones using it.

Of course it is more likely that one side will be charged more than the other, but that doesn't make it a political tool.

And, to repeat, I don't like the law. I am not defending it. I am just commenting on your interpretation of how "it is being used".

for the other 12, I don't know when the LM was alleged to take place, although I have not heard of any LM case brought since the coup which was after the coup - there was the lady holding a sign in front of the US Embassy on July 4th - her sign said 'long live USA day' and they wanted to charge her for LM, but (so far) did not.

tracking LM cases is difficult even for the organizations like AI - they will say that even they don't know the total number.

re: political tool, the law is fundamentally a political tool. As I mentioned, you do not have to do anything 'wrong'. It is sufficient that someone thinks that you did something 'wrong'. Again: in this case in the OP, Jeng was not convicted for what he said. He was convicted for how the court interpreted what he did not say.

That seems political to me.

I acknowledge that you don't like the law. We probably agree that the purpose of the law is inherently political. I think you don't agree with me that the current application of the law is political. Is that right?

The OP doesn't mention much on the charges against Yoswarit Chuklom aka Jeng Dokjik. Certainly it doesn't contain info on "convicted for how the court interpreted what he did not say". On the other hand it does mention

"by making an inflammatory speech on the stage during the red-shirt rally at Makkawan bridge on March 29, 2010"

[rubl]

Pointers, pointers, who needs pointers when we have a tbthailand telling us all. Almost like we're supposed to believe anything the NCPO tells us.

why do you troll like that?

Why do you make statements you can't properly support which suggest you're just telling us your opinion which is OK, but even opinions shouldn't mess with known figures.

I give numbers - so why do your really troll like that?

A.I. Thailand: Attitude Adjustment - 100 Days Under Martial Law

"Individuals charged or under investigation with lèse majesté’ (section 112 of the Criminal Code): 14"

Over the last nine years, restrictions have increasingly been imposed on the right to freedom of expression through the passing of laws that restrict this right in a manner incompatible with the ICCPR and the enforcement of pre-existing legislation. The 2005 Emergency Decree162, I, 2007 Computer Crimes Act (CCA) and Article 112 of the Penal Code – Thailand’s ‘lèse majesté’ law – have been used to shut down television and radio stations, block thousands of websites [163], imprison individuals for posting public information on websites and hold intermediaries responsible for content posted by web users."

"On 17 July 2014, the Bangkok Metropolitan Police Deputy Commissioner Amnuay Nimamno informed Amnesty International that there were 23 lèse majesté cases during 2013-14, with eight associated with crimes under the CCA. He did not specify if the cases were initiated or pending during this period. In May 2014, seven persons were serving prison sentences on lèse majesté related charges."

[whybother]

I don't really see how it's a political tool when politicians (or those in power) are not the ones using it.

Of course it is more likely that one side will be charged more than the other, but that doesn't make it a political tool.

If people from one side are more likely to be charged than the other, then the other side can use it as a political tool by increasing the enforcement of it.

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

They *Can*. But are they? Given that charges are coming from civilians against civilians, it hardly seems to politically motivated at a high level. The government isn't "increasing the enforcement of it". Once a complaint comes in (from civilians), the police don't have a choice but to charge the "offenders". The government don't have anything to do with it.

If it was the government making complaints against activists or politicians, then, yes, it would be a political tool. But that's not happening.

[langley]

With the other red shirt Somyot having his LM verdict confirmed last week,

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/appeals-court-upholds-11-year-sentence-human-rights-activist-somyot/

it seems that along with this thread's red shirt Jeng, that the sizable anti-monarch detachment of the red shirts is being held accountable.

[whybother]

re: political tool, the law is fundamentally a political tool. As I mentioned, you do not have to do anything 'wrong'. It is sufficient that someone thinks that you did something 'wrong'. Again: in this case in the OP, Jeng was not convicted for what he said. He was convicted for how the court interpreted what he did not say.

That seems political to me.

I acknowledge that you don't like the law. We probably agree that the purpose of the law is inherently political. I think you don't agree with me that the current application of the law is political. Is that right?

I think it seems that the application is political because it's generally one side that is being charged. I look at who is making the complaints/laying the charges to consider whether it is being used as a political tool.

[tbthailand]

answering R and W : I doubt that I can post a link but generally, as Fab4 mentioned, AI is the source for most of the counting. Others are also actively tracking LM cases.

Regarding nearly quadrupled, pre-coup there were 6 people (known) to be in prison for LM, currently (within the last week) the count was 22. Just a few weeks before it was 20, so (sadly) I am just waiting a couple of weeks for 2 more and we'll be at a dead-even 4x.

For W - no, it is actually not just because more people are talking about it, but because more people are being charged. Almost every case I can think of since the coup has been a case which occurred well before the coup - the BKK taxi driver who had a conversation with a spineless royalist about inequality in Thai society. That was in January. The cab fare recorded the conversation and filed for charges just after the coup. The 2 students in the play - that was a year ago. The guy who sent a link to a website via email - that is new, but the event was in 2010 and the web site no longer even exists.

LM is spiking because it is a political tool, not because more people are violating Article 112.

But hey, as long as you don't do anything wrong, Art 112 is not a problem, right?

It increased by 16 and you know about 4 that were committed before the coup. So that's 12 others. Any idea when they are from or who they are?

I don't really see how it's a political tool when politicians (or those in power) are not the ones using it.

Of course it is more likely that one side will be charged more than the other, but that doesn't make it a political tool.

And, to repeat, I don't like the law. I am not defending it. I am just commenting on your interpretation of how "it is being used".

for the other 12, I don't know when the LM was alleged to take place, although I have not heard of any LM case brought since the coup which was after the coup - there was the lady holding a sign in front of the US Embassy on July 4th - her sign said 'long live USA day' and they wanted to charge her for LM, but (so far) did not.

tracking LM cases is difficult even for the organizations like AI - they will say that even they don't know the total number.

re: political tool, the law is fundamentally a political tool. As I mentioned, you do not have to do anything 'wrong'. It is sufficient that someone thinks that you did something 'wrong'. Again: in this case in the OP, Jeng was not convicted for what he said. He was convicted for how the court interpreted what he did not say.

That seems political to me.

I acknowledge that you don't like the law. We probably agree that the purpose of the law is inherently political. I think you don't agree with me that the current application of the law is political. Is that right?

The OP doesn't mention much on the charges against Yoswarit Chuklom aka Jeng Dokjik. Certainly it doesn't contain info on "convicted for how the court interpreted what he did not say". On the other hand it does mention

"by making an inflammatory speech on the stage during the red-shirt rally at Makkawan bridge on March 29, 2010"

This OP doesn't, but you can find the conviction information and the justification for the LM conviction if you get out and read more.

[langley]

News this evening of yet another anti-monarchy red shirt who also insulted the monarchy like this thread's aforementioned comrades has fled Thailand and is now hiding out in Cambodia according to the other newspaper.

Red shirt Ekkaprob's case will be interesting to follow if he allowed to stay there.

[rubl]

The OP doesn't mention much on the charges against Yoswarit Chuklom aka Jeng Dokjik. Certainly it doesn't contain info on "convicted for how the court interpreted what he did not say". On the other hand it does mention

"by making an inflammatory speech on the stage during the red-shirt rally at Makkawan bridge on March 29, 2010"

This OP doesn't, but you can find the conviction information and the justification for the LM conviction if you get out and read more.

The OP does mention the "breaching Article 112 of the Criminal Law by making an inflammatory speech". A bit of searching gives me "insulting the Monarchy".

What more is there to read?