Buying A Generator

[girlx]

I work from my home office in Koh Phangan, on the internet. Last year I learned that this is nearly impossible in rainy season. It was an exceptionally bad rainy season here last year, but all forecasts for this year are thus far just as bad. Every time the wind blows my electricity goes out from about October- January. And when the electricity blows out so does my router and thus my internet. Sometimes the phone lines go out as well but the main problem is electricity. I do not want to have to leave my home this year during monsoon and am looking at alternative options... is it possible I could buy a generator? I know nothing about them, would they help much? Are they expensive? Where would I get one? Any other suggestions?

[petecooper]

Why don't you get a "UPS"? (Uninteruptible Power Supply). It's basically a "battery backup" which plugs into the power and in turn you can plug your computer, router, etc etc into it and they will keep going when the mains power fails. You can buy them in a variety of sizes from enough to say power your computer for 15 minutes, allowing you time to "save" all your documents and shut down gracefully; to larger ones which will keep you going for several hours; depending on your budget and needs.

I think this is a better option than a generator for a couple of reasons; one, it's designed to take over immediately when the power fails, so you don't loose any of your work. A generator requires you to start it up, which may be too late. It doesn't require fuel or maintenance, as a generator would. Also, it doesn't make loads of noise or smoke.

A final point is that generators, especially less expensive ones, produce "noisy" power; that is, the voltage can have spikes or irregularities, which while fine for lights or fridges, is not so great for computers. The output from a UPS is guaranteed to be "smooth" which will keep your equipment happy!

I think you can get basic UPS models from about 6000 baht or so.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Pete

[h90]

I work from my home office in Koh Phangan, on the internet. Last year I learned that this is nearly impossible in rainy season. It was an exceptionally bad rainy season here last year, but all forecasts for this year are thus far just as bad. Every time the wind blows my electricity goes out from about October- January. And when the electricity blows out so does my router and thus my internet. Sometimes the phone lines go out as well but the main problem is electricity. I do not want to have to leave my home this year during monsoon and am looking at alternative options... is it possible I could buy a generator? I know nothing about them, would they help much? Are they expensive? Where would I get one? Any other suggestions?

I saw portable one at homepro I think with 2000 or 3000 watt (should be enough for light and computer), with gasoline. made in china.

price I don't remember but it was somewhere in the 3000-7000 Baht range.

[sbk]

Why don't you get a "UPS"? (Uninteruptible Power Supply). It's basically a "battery backup" which plugs into the power and in turn you can plug your computer, router, etc etc into it and they will keep going when the mains power fails. You can buy them in a variety of sizes from enough to say power your computer for 15 minutes, allowing you time to "save" all your documents and shut down gracefully; to larger ones which will keep you going for several hours; depending on your budget and needs.

I think this is a better option than a generator for a couple of reasons; one, it's designed to take over immediately when the power fails, so you don't loose any of your work. A generator requires you to start it up, which may be too late. It doesn't require fuel or maintenance, as a generator would. Also, it doesn't make loads of noise or smoke.

A final point is that generators, especially less expensive ones, produce "noisy" power; that is, the voltage can have spikes or irregularities, which while fine for lights or fridges, is not so great for computers. The output from a UPS is guaranteed to be "smooth" which will keep your equipment happy!

I think you can get basic UPS models from about 6000 baht or so.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Pete

the problem with a UPS is, as you point out, it only lasts for 15 minutes or so. When the power goes off here it can go off for hours at a time (sometimes a day or two). I think girlx would like to be able to work when this occurs. It is essentialy a gas powered motor, so you will need to take into account the cost of the gas to run the thing too. Makro on the mainland has them, as does Homepro in Samui, I am sure.

I don't know that they have them on the island but I'll bet if you asked at one of the hardware stores they could order one in for you.

[Tywais]

If you are having long term power outages (more then 30-40 minutes) and they are common then a generator will be more cost effective. You will still need a UPS to allow time for the generator to start and also to clean up the AC from the generator before it reaches your computer. The UPS in this case does not have to have a large capacity and as such can be a lower cost one (lower VA rated) but still want a good brand such as APC to keep the line to the computer clean.

This configuration will allow you to have your computer/network available 24/7 (depending on the stability of the phone line). Also you should be aware that the price of UPS go up exponentially with the VA rating and as such would be impractical to have one that could keep you running for more then 30-45 minutes at which point it will be cheaper getting a generator and a lower VA rated UPS.

Edited July 19, 2006 by tywais

[petecooper]

the problem with a UPS is, as you point out, it only lasts for 15 minutes or so. When the power goes off here it can go off for hours at a time (sometimes a day or two). I think girlx would like to be able to work when this occurs.

The cheapest UPSs only last about 15 minutes, but depending on your budget, you could get one to run for much longer if you needed.

Might not be a bad idea to get both a UPS _and_ a generator though; the UPS will "smooth" the power from the generator for you and keep you going until you can get the generator started, so you don't lose any work. (Or keep you going while you refuel it, etc.)

[girlx]

Hmm... like SBK says, the power is not out for just 15 mins. or so but can be for up to a couple of days at a time. I can't seem to find a UPS that lasts for a long time. I am not worried about losing data because my laptop has a battery for backup. But I do need something to depend on for electricity to power my router for up to 4-5 hours so I can work.

Does anyone know of a UPS that can do this or am I stuck with buying a generator? Thanks for any more advice.

[petecooper]

Hmm... like SBK says, the power is not out for just 15 mins. or so but can be for up to a couple of days at a time. I can't seem to find a UPS that lasts for a long time. I am not worried about losing data because my laptop has a battery for backup. But I do need something to depend on for electricity to power my router for up to 4-5 hours so I can work.

Does anyone know of a UPS that can do this or am I stuck with buying a generator? Thanks for any more advice.

Even a small UPS should power a router for ages, they wouldn't use very much juice at all. Your laptop battery would probably run out first.

[chownah]

It was suggested that a higher VA rated UPS would power a computer for a longer period of time and I think that this is incorrect. Generally, VA ratings indicate the amount of continuous power that can be produced and thus would tell you how many watts you could use and not how long that this load could be maintained....VA is like watts...and what is needed to determine how long a computer could run would be watt-hours or possible VA-hours. For batteries the measure of how long they will produce power is called amp-hours and since they more or less provide electicity at one particular voltage you could use volt-amp-hours (VA-hours) as well.

[Tywais]

It was suggested that a higher VA rated UPS would power a computer for a longer period of time and I think that this is incorrect.

Actually it is correct but loosely so. If you go to UPS sites and grab data sheets with charts they will show a relationship of time versus load. If you think about it it does make sense since the larger the VA rating generally the larger the battery. So, if you increase the size of the battery for a given load the operational time does go up but not necessarily linearly.

Calculating Run Time:

Now we need to discuss how long we want everything to run if the power goes out.

Divide the UPS va Rating by the Overall va Load and then check the ratio in the table below. For this example, we have 375va load and will use an APC Back-UPS 1100va (model commonly available).

Load Ratio = 1100va / 375va = 2.9333

Ratio Min Ratio Max Multiplier

0 1.3 choose larger ups

1.3 3 1.3

3 and up 1.5

We will assume 10 minutes is average run time at full load for the average UPS for desktop or home theater use. Using the table above we get a Multiplier of 1.3 for a Load Ratio of 2.9333.

So multiply the load ratio X Multiplier X 10 minutes = Run Time

Run Time = 2.9333 x 1.3 x 10 = 38.129 minutes

The longer you want everything to run, the larger the UPS will need to be. If 38 minutes of run time is insufficient for your needs, simply choose a larger UPS such as the 1250va (~50 min), 1400va (~56 min), or 1500va (~60 min).

Edited July 19, 2006 by tywais

[girlx]

Hmm... if anyone knows anything about UPSs maybe they can tell me if any of the ones listed on this page might help me? thx

[thedude]

maybe someone can invent a bicycle driven power generator so you can lose weight while finishing work. lights go out, paddle paddle paddle. i reckon that'll do well in the infomercials too.

[percy2]

Hmm... if anyone knows anything about UPSs maybe they can tell me if any of the ones listed on this page might help me? thx

You could pick up a used 2-3kva generator with autostart (power goes off gen starts automatically) for under B10,000.

As others have said best used with a ups.

You can also rent these things from companies like Thaitech but your logistics cost may prove prohibitive.

Cheers

[chownah]

Tywais,

Thanks for the info re:VA ratings for UPS units...very interesting.

Chownah

[aaaaaa]

what I'd like to get is - Solar battery(ies) !

regarding generator: I think if buying one, better to choose that which can use not only standart but alternative fuels as well. like nowdays Thais discuss and experiment with a lot of other fuels, like those made of re-cyvled vegetable oils etc.

[naka]

Girlx.

While you could use a portable generator, they are expensive, noisy and a hassle

in general.

Your best bet would be a combination of - Battery Charger / Car Battery / DC-AC Inverter.

You would use the charger to keep the battery charged and just

clip the inverter onto the battery whey you have a power outage.

You need a

12 volt charger, 2 to 5 Amp rating - Available anywhere for a few hundred Baht.

Car Battery - 40 or 50 Amp/Hour rating.

Inverter about 300 Watt rating 12 volt DC to 220 volt AC. Less than $ 100

See these :-

Radioshack

Inverters

Inverters

Don't know where you can buy in Thailand but they are available.

If you got one from US you would need to makesure your laptop

can run on 110 volt 60 hertz supply ... most can ... see Gateway link below.

Look for the info on your laptop power adaptor.

If you find an inverter locally it will be 12 v to 220 v 50 hertz anyway.

Gateway laptop specs

Hope this helps.

Naka.

Edited July 21, 2006 by naka

[Gary A]

I recently read an article from a guy who built a UPS using deep cycle marine batteries. Yeah I know, what good is it if you can't read the article. That said he claimed to be able to run his entire system for three days. I would guess that there are guys here on Thai Visa who could build such a system.

[kenk3z]

For your idea to work, you need to have an ISP that does not also die when your neighborhood power drops out. If you are on IPStar, OK. If you are on DSL or some such local ISP, won't they stop service if they lose power?

Presuming something independent from the power situation like IPStar, and that you use a laptop (which in a way uses its battery as a form of UPS) then all you need to power is your other local networking equipment. If this happens for a day or so at a time, then the small generator is a good bet. You don't even need an outboard UPS if you can tolerate the router down time until you get the generator going. Have a refrigerator? Small TV? Get a generator capable of running those also - a router typically doesn't use much electricity at all.

The key is preventing the generator from being stolen from you.

kenk3z