Koh Tao murders: Police free bar owners and look for ex-village headman's son

[rametindallas]

I've been following this from the very beginning and what I am sick of is the constant RTP bashing in this thread, and others like these.

It seems from reading peoples comments that they have years of law enforcement experience & consider themselves to be Sherlock Holmes. If you bashers think you can do a decent job then why don't you get yourself to Koh Tao and lend them a hand?

As someone who has experience in law enforcement I can tell you, investigating a murder and gathering evidence to show to the court is not easy.

How can you preserve evidence on a beach as best you can without compromising it when the sea can wash away vital bits?

How are you going to identify witnesses if none are willing to come forward?

The murder didn't occur directly underneath a CCTV camera, so how are you going to know how many suspects you're looking for or what they look like?

How are you going to lock down an island with many entry/exit points with a limited amount of officers?

What tasks are you going to prioritise when you used your finite amount of officers, and your nearest back up is 2 hours away with the sea in between?

People have been saying it's a Thai, Burmese, influential person who committed the murder. I ask you where is your evidence to support your theory? Gut feelings and hearsay don't hold up in a court of law I'm afraid.

Oh and not all Thai police officers are corrupt, so why tar them with the same brush? You guys won't like it if people say retired Farang men only come to Thailand to marry young Thai women would you?

My grandfather did not die in the line of duty on a drug raid just to be labeled bent.

Rant over …

It seems like the only real evidential lead is the seaman. Finding the match can takes hours to years, it's unfortunately just a waiting game now.

C'mon, I have not been a Sherlock but it is not difficult to totally lock down an area within a few hours with the authority. It is also not difficult, be careful and treat every bit of evidence as if it were the most precious gem. Furthermore, it is also not difficult if you are in power of authority to detain suspects and people under suspicion instead of letting them walk out of the door. That is a given. Oh yea also this quote; 'No Thai could have committed this crime'

How many police were stationed on the island when the crime occured? At least two of those police were related to the (former?) head man. How organized and professional did you think this laid-back, Mayberry, South Carolina, Police Force on Koh Tao would be or that it could be capable, much less willing, to step on any toes, that might be higher up the food chain, in pursuit of justice for the foreign victims. The culture and its control of the individual is strong in Thailand; enforceable by death if necessary. Consider the Barney Fifes in your own, Western, small towns and villages. Everyone should stop judging RTP by the standards of the latest, modern Western city, television cop show technology/investigative techniques.

The police who are directing the investigation now are not locals. This case was deemed of national importance and the NCPO/PM has directed the National Police to 'git 'er dun', so I'm pretty sure they have their best qualified on this case. I expect that if the guilty parties get DNA tested, they will be brought to justice no matter who is their father. If they do not get a match, the RTP will lose much face. They will have to widen the circle of people tested. They will not be able to drop this case, ever. There is so much 'face' resting on a successful, believable resolution to this case. The credibility of the RTP, The NCPO/PM, and Thailand are on the line.

Ready or not, Thailand, there is a new sheriff in town and he's cleaning things up.

[MJP]

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

Please excuse the spelling mistakes. Theres a few things I probably will add later on, but have work to do this morning. I'm sure I've annoyed mates by writing this - I'm sorry guys, but the wall of silence and deliberate misinformation regarding the local strongmen/families is offensive to everyone living outside the island.

As for the bloody guitar. You'd be amazed how many people have the "phangan" or "koh tao tattoo" that is motorbike related injuries involving booze. It's a rite of passage on the island, with poorly maintained bikes owned by long termers, crashes (and minor injuries) are common.

If he was playing his guitar in a bar and crashed, he'd have a legitmate excuse for blood being on it. I had the same thing when I drove home boozed up after DJing. Crashed my bike and grazed myself up - my bag had blood over it. One only has to count the number of bandages after full moon period on Khao San road in BKK to see this.

Mike, you're doing a good job. Keep compiling the report and send it Channel 4 in the UK sometime. This needs airing.

[joedot]

I can't quote the source here since it is the BKK post, but you can google it. From the BKK post. Police started questioning Montriwat Toovichien at 11 AM on 9/23. Then at 1:21 PM on 9/24 the same BKK post put an article out that said the Surat Thani police told them at 10 AM that morning that a DNA sample taken from him did not match that of those found on the victims. I call bs on that. Sorry, I just don't buy it. That is less than 24 hours for this DNA test to have supposedly been done. This guy Montriwat needs further scrutiny from somebody higher up than his island buddies in the police department

Edited September 24, 2014 by joedot

[joedot]

Montriwat Toovichien, the same guy that Sean Mcanna said threatened him in the early morning hours with his other buddy. The same guy that was captured on video walking alongside the police at the crime scene on day one of the murder investigation. If the police can give me a GOOD reason for why he was allowed to walk all over the crime scene with police on day 1, and get a proper DNA test done that clears him I'll be satisfied. None of this 23 hour, we did a DNA test, he's cleared now bs. I hope a reporter will start asking these questions.

Edited September 24, 2014 by joedot

[pratsku]

I can't quote the source here since it is the BKK post, but you can google it. From the BKK post. Police started questioning Montriwat Toovichien at 11 AM on 9/23. Then at 1:21 PM on 9/24 the same BKK post put an article out that said the Surat Thani police told them at 10 AM that morning that a DNA sample taken from him did not match that of those found on the victims. I call bs on that. Sorry, I just don't buy it. That is less than 24 hours for this DNA test to have supposedly been done. This guy Montriwat needs further scrutiny from somebody higher up than his island buddies in the police department

how long does a dna test take ????

[NCFC]

Just watched BBC news in UK. Very damning report. Said 3 generals now involved and all 3 had different conclusions. The Thais are now claiming their investigations are being hampered by social media speculation according to the BBC report

[rametindallas]

I think the police have turned over a new leaf and are going to pursue this case, no matter where or who it leads to. I believe it is because the army has their back; both to support them and to keep them on the straight and narrow path of righteousness.

If they can bring in the guilty parties and make a credible case against them (no matter who is their father), it will go a long way to restoring respect and confidence in the RTP.

Yes, but I hope for more. Would it not be a good time to start cleaning up local mafia's. Someone was quoted as saying yesterday that the police would also go after people that helped the kid escape. If Thailand is really lucky these local thugs sorry, leaders, will be brought down. Kao Tao is a microcosm of Thailand as a whole. Pretty much every community has these almost untouchable families, that have total control over local police, politicians and other influential posts. More often than not they are where they are because of extreme violence and intimidation. Everyone in Thailand knows who these people are but they have no one to go to. These people are the police, they are the politicians and powerful businessmen. How can Thailand change when this is how the entire country is run.

Nasty little thugs like this, that think they are above the law, exist in almost every town and city in Thailand. If the army boys are to be successful in setting Thailand on a new path they need to try to do something to stop these thugs. If they are to be really effective with this case they need to end up prosecuting several members of the family, local figures and police that were clearly trying to cover up who did this. It seems very clear that these people knew exactly who did it from the very start.

It also seems the Scots barman was the only person on the island that was prepared to speak up, which again doesn't look great for Thailand. It's hardly the first time a murder has had to be solved by a foreigner because the police didn't want to do so.

The military boys have a very long way to go to clean up the country, however, this horrific incident provides the perfect opportunity to start the process.

Better to get to Mafia out of the police before you try to clean up Mafia in the countryside or the city.

Maybe, once the Mafia is mostly cut from the police, you can hope for more equal law enforcement without the police weighing the status of the victims and the status of the suspects before they decide how hard they want to investigate. They have always been badly underfunded/equipped as the 'powers that be' have no real use for them other than as a tool to be controlled. Historically, there has been no interest in having the police be independent or proficient at catching/stopping crime. Maybe the new PM will see that a country that wants to progress in the World will need a modern, efficient, mostly uncorrupted police force and he will insure they get training, facilities, merit based promotions, etc.. Maybe...

[TV7]

BBC News just said that the three Thai generals who are running the investigation can't agree on who the suspects are, whether there are any suspects, or what they should do next.

Enough of this farce, this is an insult to the victims and their families. It's time the British government started kicking some Thai ass and brought Scotland Yard in to take charge. And if there's any resistance, then the Foreign Office should take the Thai prime minister's advice and declare that Thailand is not safe for female tourists and should be avoided.

[TV7]

The guy with the analogy from the Jaws movie was bang on the money. They cant have anything like this in the media just before high seasons. It truly sickens me. I , like many on this forim have been here a while (a lot longer than my TV membership suggests) but I have never been so disgusted and outraged at the incompetentcy of policing and lack of sensitivity of the TAT. Im a property owner and involved in the tourism business but I am falling out of love with Thailand at an alarming rate.

I can only agree. The whole thing also makes me sick!

But now we do not have to worry anymore. because The Minister for tourism and sports is now coming to Koh Tao to restore is image and everyone will be happy again.

If I was in the tourism business like you, I would honestly be worried. This place is going down the drain, when it comes to foreign investments and tourism. And it is not something that is coming, it has already started long time ago. Tourism has gone down with an alarming rate and it can no longer be covered up by false statistics. Add to that this case, which clearly shows that nobody really cares about the tourists here (except their money). Thailand is not what it used to be and it will get more hurt, as more and more tourists find other destinations, that are more welcoming and safe to be in.

I couldn't agree more...... tourism to Thailand has been falling for ten years. It is now expensive, the land of smiles has become a land of money grabbing rip the tourist off sharks, with dark sinister undertones. Hundreds of women raped each year at Full Moon parties according to the Australian embassy, most go unreported. Why go to Thailand when you can go to paradise islands like the Maldives and Mauritius for half the price and with less travel from Europe. Thai tourist industry is sunk.

[Nigeone]

I've been following this from the very beginning and what I am sick of is the constant RTP bashing in this thread, and others like these.

It seems from reading peoples comments that they have years of law enforcement experience & consider themselves to be Sherlock Holmes. If you bashers think you can do a decent job then why don't you get yourself to Koh Tao and lend them a hand?

As someone who has experience in law enforcement I can tell you, investigating a murder and gathering evidence to show to the court is not easy.

How can you preserve evidence on a beach as best you can without compromising it when the sea can wash away vital bits?

How are you going to identify witnesses if none are willing to come forward?

The murder didn't occur directly underneath a CCTV camera, so how are you going to know how many suspects you're looking for or what they look like?

How are you going to lock down an island with many entry/exit points with a limited amount of officers?

What tasks are you going to prioritise when you used your finite amount of officers, and your nearest back up is 2 hours away with the sea in between?

People have been saying it's a Thai, Burmese, influential person who committed the murder. I ask you where is your evidence to support your theory? Gut feelings and hearsay don't hold up in a court of law I'm afraid.

Oh and not all Thai police officers are corrupt, so why tar them with the same brush? You guys won't like it if people say retired Farang men only come to Thailand to marry young Thai women would you?

My grandfather did not die in the line of duty on a drug raid just to be labeled bent.

Rant over

No wonder that there is RTP bashing, people are very skeptic for a good reason. What does a civilian do on a crime scene to begin with just as an example? Same civilian who are caught on CCTV. Same civilian who start to play private investigator with his police friend. Same civilian who was having a conflict with the murder victims before the murder took place. Same civilian who was interrogated but denied to provide DNA sample. I could go on.....

Don't come and tell us that there is no reason to be skeptic about this while investigation.

Yes....all these people saying why is there RTP bashing don't understand how it works...To be honest is there anyone on here you can

honestly tell me that when !! a perp is found you feel sure it would be the right person arrested...The whole episode is a complete

disgrace and the lack of protocol and operating methods are quite honestly a joke...This is a big country and the police really don't

have a clue.!!

Also its quite clear this has got cover up all over it..God knows what the other countries in the world are thinking...Actually they should come out and tell Thailand police what they are thinking and don't pull punches....This type of crime will!! happen again and it could be me or anyone reading this on here...British/Australian/France etc embassies GET INVOLVED !!!strong words are needed..I feel so sorry to the family's and friends of the two murdered to have to watch and hear of whats 'NOT ' going on....everyday brings a new contradiction

and joke comments from our BiB..

[JacknDanny]

If one was innocent AND a prominent bar owner, you would happily give your DNA and help all you could.

The original suspect refused to give his DNA.

A couple of days later, allegedly, he gave it.

I suspect that these samples have been contaminated or switched.

Its just smoking mirrors all the way.

Disgraceful.

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[phuketandsee]

Thailand: face your shame.

We are sick of lies.

We trusted you with our precious children and Thailand has dishonoured this trust.

Show us justice for we will not forget.

Very well, and powerfully, said

[phuketandsee]

The BBC is saying the police are close to making an arrest (singular) and that police believe three people involved.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29339436

Of course we've heard all this before.

[cacruden]

Last time I checked in on the technology - it took 24 - 72 hours for DNA testing. It seems that for most people tested in the current process it was taking maybe 48 hours from time they said they would to the time the cleared people. They have to fly the DNA to Singapore in addition to collecting it - and hopefully have a whole chain of evidence custody thing going on. This last person seems to have been "cleared" through testing faster than what has been the standard.

Most US labs for police forensics are backlogged and take 3+ weeks or even months depending on priority.

Edited September 24, 2014 by cacruden

[rametindallas]

How much is this village chief and his family worth? I bet that's the question going through the police's head right now. I think a big bribe is being drawn up.

The damage to the tourism industry is millions; that family can't offset that. Besides, I don't think the new PM will tolerate a settlement as he will suffer a huge loss of face if Thailand can't solve this to everybody's satisfaction. His new government's future reputation is on the line and he needs to prove he is not like all the others before him.

[harp73]

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

I really hope after all this the good western TV producers do a comprehensive documentary on this crime and include all the other similar horrors and miscarriages of justice in that country.

Show it for what it really is.

Police have not arrested any suspect but closed the case Wednesday. DNA from hair in Witheridge's hand linked a British man to the case, and police are certain he's the only suspect, the Telegraph reported. this is from Wednesday the 17th - what happened to the hair then?.

[Patsycat]

There was a lady who posted a few days ago who's daughter was murdered about ten years ago. She has not yet had any closure on who and when.

I cant find her post in all the others. But, if you go by her story - this could go on for years.

How could any family hide a person who has killed and abused another person? Its just sick.

[rametindallas]

Sean was convicted of possessing photos of naked underage girls.

Doesn't automatically make him a murder.

I think that's his point?

Yeah, but what's your point?

I think you may know more than you are letting on. That makes you suspect.

Edited September 25, 2014 by rametindallas

[Theforeigner]

Andy Lines has a pic of Seans blood stained guitar saying it was due to an accident before the murders took place. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BySl1TDIIAEGmIk.jpg

Sure look dramatic, but very easy to find out if the blood connect Sean to the murders, just DNA test the blood and see if it is a match for either of the victims.

But either way, pretty odd to keep the blood on the guitar!!!

BTW...In the interview with Sean a cupple of days ago, sean had a scratch on his right forearm.

[pb1936]

Here's a report from the Daily Mirror in the UK - seems to sum-up the situation clearly. It is quite obvious that the local BIB know who the killers are.

• • Sep 22, 2014 23:10
• • Opinion
  • 
  • by AndyLines

Andy Lines has spent the last week on Koh Tao reporting on the tragic deaths of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

• 13 Shares
• Share
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Adam Gerrard / Daily Mirror

Andy Lines at the spot where Hannah and David died

Thailand’s top police chief shook my hand and promised he would catch the killer of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller .

But it has been over a week now and police are absolutely no closer to solving the crime.

I spoke to Thailand’s top police chief Somyot Poompanmoung - their equivalent of the Chief Constable of the Met Police.

The Royal Thai Commissioner pledged the people responsible for the horrendous crime would be brought to justice.

He seemed to be focused on the job in hand but so little progress has been made.

First British tourists were being blamed.

Then lowly paid Burmese immigrants.

And then the Brits again.

Adam Gerrard / Daily Mirror

Andy Lines speaks with Police Colonel Prachum Ruangthong

It was only after our online Mirror exclusive over the weekend about a bust-up with gangsters in a bar that police conceded they were investigating the possibility a Thai man may have committed the crime.

I left London last Monday and have spent a week on this beautiful remote island 50 miles from the mainland.

There is a sinister undercurrent here I cannot quite put my finger on.

But certainly drugs are involved.

Many people here clearly know what REALLY happened that night.

For the peace of mind of Hannah and David's families the police must break through this mafia style Omerta code of silence.

It’s the least they deserve.

To see those responsible for the murder of the pair to face justice in a Thai courtroom.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-police-must-4306103#ixzz3EHanxXeM
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

[bkkgooner]

I'm not believing this family at all, they already refused DNA tests. People on the island know what happened and they are just waiting for suitable patsies to be handed over.

I would imagine Andy Lines has been sitting on his arse for the past week drinking beer and lady watching.

Edited September 25, 2014 by bkkgooner

[lildragon]

I am never going to consider going to Koh Tao again to spend my money supporting this scum. I know that most of the Thai islands have them but there must be a few that don't?

[jaidam]

I am never going to consider going to Koh Tao again to spend my money supporting this scum. I know that most of the Thai islands have them but there must be a few that don't?

Koh Losin?

[louse1953]

Hiding in Bangkok? I thought he'd be well into the jungles of Cambodia/Laos/Vietnam by now.

Thank god for all the international pressure. David and Hannah may Get some justice soon. I hope Koh Tao is cleaned up of these 'families' too but I won't hold my breath on that.

Bangers is the perfect place to hide,he is Thai,mingling with 10 million Thais.Don't you think he would stand out in the 3 countries you mentioned,and besides,no language skills and no backup.Concrete jungle is the place to be,strangers not noticed at all.

[lildragon]

I am never going to consider going to Koh Tao again to spend my money supporting this scum. I know that most of the Thai islands have them but there must be a few that don't?

Koh Losin?

My arse would get numb from sitting on the rocks but hey no gangsters :-p

[louse1953]

I think the police have turned over a new leaf and are going to pursue this case, no matter where or who it leads to. I believe it is because the army has their back; both to support them and to keep them on the straight and narrow path of righteousness.

If they can bring in the guilty parties and make a credible case against them (no matter who is their father), it will go a long way to restoring respect and confidence in the RTP.

You say the police have turned a new leaf regarding the case? Sure after nearly 2 weeks of trying to set people up, ignore the fact Thais could be involved, local enforcement probably covering things up, ignoring help from outside such as the FBI and having the entire world breaking their balls, good on them...

Sorry but I have no respect for them whatsoever, they handled this in a typical Thai manner, it was a circus and laughing stock, horrific images were leaked, the crime scene was a shambles with regards to how it was fenced off and investigated, the GENERAL and his outstanding bikini comment and who can forget blaming the victims friend on the grounds he was a potential homosexual. Yep, looks like Koh Tao and the rest of Thailand has a booming future

Why do westerners expect Thais to act like them,they will always act like Thais,good and bad,in a westerners view.Do you take on every Thai trait if you live here,try to assimilate?Colonist thinking.They will never think the same way as a westerner and i,for one,am happy about that.

[StealthEnergiser]

Has anyone asked the police why they allowed influential persons onto the crime scene during the investigation ?

[louse1953]

My wife has family that live on Koh Tao and Koh Phagnan.

She had a chat with her cousin yesterday on Koh Tao and everyone there knows who did it. Probably known since the day after the crime.

Therefore, the police must have known too.

Only conflicting info from her, was that it was the nephew of a village headman ??

Looks like they will get the right people eventually though, more due to international pressure than good police work.

RIP the deceased..

So your base your theory on village gossip.Thailand runs on gossip and this forum is certainly not immune.

[Eagle60]

Todays comments from the U.K Independent newspaper concerning this horrific crime.

You need to go to the main page and then Asian News section as like yesterday the article link url comes back with a ''404'' notice.

One wonders why that should be?

http://www.independent.co.uk

Maybe the same people thats still blocking the Daily mail (mail on line) on TOT but the same website is available through AIS.

Not sure any blocking of a newspaper is a loss to the intellectual well being of human kind. The standards of newspaper reporting and age level of its wording is so immature I think we could all be better of without them. But I get what you are saying.

Edited September 25, 2014 by davidcc