Key witness says foreigner kills British tourists

[JOC]

The only way we have to send a message to Thailand is by boicoting Thailand and his goods production. The American downgrade should be set back as punishment

Why should we punish the average Thai person, because a couple of lunatics kill two tourists??

Are all the Thais working in the tourist-industry to blame for a corrupt and inept policeforce??

[ozzyrules]

But the DNA??

So the female victim is raped by two Asian men, and this mysterious farang comes along and kills her and David??

Please, please Thai police keep your mouths shut!!

there must be some weird ***** going on on that island, sounds to me that they are now insinuating that the semen did not belong to the murderers and the sexual activity either happened before or after the murders

That what Clutchclark is trying to say,

he suggested they only raped them after death, didn't murder them...I find that crime equally as bad as the murder...But he seems to think it's ok...some sick puppies around here.

[sweatalot]

Some time ago I heard of so called death squadrons in South America.

If there were heavy criminals - obviously guilty, but the police did not touch them

because of corruption

those people would come as "man in black" and did the duty of the executioner.

May be the mafias in Koh Tao have to fear things like that.

Where justice is made unjustice resistence becomes duty

[gemguy]

Has there ever been a serious crime investigation in Thailand conducted by the Thai police that has not run amuck with all kinds of bizarre complications and contradicting evidence and or contradicting statements made by any number of various individuals involved, ranging from the police, to the supposed witnesses, to any local citizens, including the press and or government officials having something to say.

This is another Thai police crime investigation doomed for failure right from the beginning.

Seriously...it would be better if the Thai police officials simply stated:

"We really do not have any serious evidence to prove who perpetrated this crime nor do we have any particular person(s) who can be proven to be the perpetrator(s)

I guess the moderators will deem this post as inflammatory as it is criticizing the revered police force in Thailand.

[Wilsonandson]

People by and large don't realize just how far and how low Thais will go to fabricate a story, save face and save their butts.

It's quite obvious to anyone with any day to day knowledge of Thailand what is going on here; why the BIB said this, why the BIB said that, why the BIB played for time, why the crime scene was fouled, why the junta said whatever, what the headman's ploy was with his reward and alibis, why foreign social media was criticized etc etc ...yawn...

And we are all supposed to act dumb and soak up this nonsense like uneducated serfs living in a bygone age.

What to do? If the Thai authorities cannot face the truth, should this not be raised to an international rather than a domestic issue?

Although this was a great tragedy for the family, does it really rate as one of the world's great crisis that demands international investigation? What about all the Thais who die annually?

Look mate, its a great tragedy also forThailand. Yes it does rate very very high,and demands a international investigation. Thailand will not slip out of this one

that is guaranteed. The whole world is watching and waiting,mark my words.

Are you kidding. This story isn't very big at all IMO. I hope you are right though. I hope the Brits push and push and this becomes a Natalie hallway type case. The Thais need to learn if they can't solve murders they aren't going to get tourist dollars. International attention on a much larger scale will be the only way to force them into that mindset.

Your right to say this is not as big a story in the U.S as it is in the U.K but I like the Natalie Halloway comparison, I think this is the U.K equivalent.

[Pii Kate]

Last year, in Chiang Mai, 100 people who are considered to be Asian foreigners demanded DNA testing to prove that they are in fact, Thai. I don't know what came of it but it shows that DNS testing can be very specific. I have no idea why this note is underlined.

Edited September 27, 2014 by metisdead
Underline removed.

[Pii Kate]

Last year in Chiang Mai 100 people had DNA testing to prove they were indeed Thai. I am not sure of the outcome but it shows that DNA testing can be very specific to race. It can go beyond "Asian".

Edited September 27, 2014 by metisdead
Font, please stop messing with the fonts.

[Upset]

All the DNA of the Police investigators handling this case should be checked! Maybe rare genes affecting the method of thinking, logic and brains functions will be will be found.

[gemguy]

I'm getting real tired of looking at these toads SMILING during these photo-ops, given the tragic circumstances.

I can't imagine any cop in the real world smiling at any press conference regarding a double homicide.

Simpletons...

Watch it...you may get cited by the moderators for inflammatory remarks about Thai people as you are implying all Thai people are simpletons.

Cheers

[ALFREDO]

I have not seen this story on CNN or BBC TV.

I watch a lot of news, but maybe I missed it on TV.

I think it would make an interesting story.

BBC reproted the murder and showed some TV footage in the first days after the murder.

This story would be something for the -Back story- editorial office.

Edited September 27, 2014 by ALFREDO

[Wilsonandson]

The investigation has been impieded, misleading and investigated improperly due to the influence of a monk who owns swathes of land on Ko Samui.

[ClutchClark]

But the DNA??

So the female victim is raped by two Asian men, and this mysterious farang comes along and kills her and David??

Please, please Thai police keep your mouths shut!!

there must be some weird ***** going on on that island, sounds to me that they are now insinuating that the semen did not belong to the murderers and the sexual activity either happened before or after the murders

That what Clutchclark is trying to say,

he suggested they only raped them after death, didn't murder them...I find that crime equally as bad as the murder....

Ozzy,

I merely point out what is obvious to any defense attorney.

A court of law does not consider "raping" a dead body nearly as severe as raping and mutilating and murdering a living person in the way this poor girl was killed.

If you do not believe me then I urge you to study up on laws and sentencing.

You appear to be very emotional and wanting to strike out at any one that you can, just like many others here with a lynchmob mentality. This has allowed you to imagine an "intent" to my posts that does not exist.

You lack the ab

Edited September 27, 2014 by ClutchClark

[dealthedice]

Wonder if it's a coincidence, that something like a day ago the "furious" local Thais were posting pictures of Sean in crossdressing-party at the beach and saying "why did you destroy our island", and making fun of him. The next day police announces they are looking for a "foreigner" despite Asian DNA found on Hannah. Sure the DNA could be another kind of Asian than Thai, but I'm almost predicting the announcement from police chief soon saying "We've now found the foreign guilty, it's Sean". Perhaps they are leaning towards this under pressure of the locals as well as the mafia? Or maybe not. The next announcement of this soap opera will be interesting (sarcastically speaking, I truly hope they get the right suspects and justice for the dead and their families, since these murders have been truly sickening)...

Edited September 27, 2014 by dealthedice

[englishoak]

https://www.facebook.com/justiceforHannahandDavid

[Wilsonandson]

Tommorow is the 2 week anniversary of the murders of Hannah and David. The killers are still free to kill again. Beware of Murder Island. Follow British travel advice on Thailand closely when visiting. R.I.P Hannah, R.I.P David, Amen.

[meand]

On the DNA topic, I would tend to have confidence in Thai labs to obtain the correct results. However, I would not trust for a second the handling, organizing, collecting and storing of the samples by the Thais. Seriously, 3000 baht given to some dude and a sample is switched. I'm not saying that's what happened but just an example of how easy it would be.

[laobali]

With every new "development" my heart sinks a little more. I've never followed a crime quite so avidly before and it is having a profound effect on how I look at Thailand as a whole. I came to Thailand about 10 years ago because I loved it and wanted to live here, now I'm sick of it and can't wait to leave (next month with my Thai wife and daughter). Something has shifted here in the last 5 years or so, even Thais feel this. This is not the happy-smiley country it once was and it's getting uglier by the day. I personally won't be sorry to leave. This murder case has really been the last straw for me. It really is an appalling state of affairs. It just makes me depressed now.

It's really none of our business, but you didn't tell us what destination you have found that will give you and your family a 'better' life. It certainly can't be the U.K., as, by all reports, that green and pleasant land is also getting uglier by the day.

That's not true, either. It depends to a large degree on where in the UK you live and your finances. Coming back after 17 years in the region, England seems even more 'green and pleasant' than I remember, not to mention services and facilities you wouldn't even expect in most of SEA. I even prefer the weather!

[JOC]

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This is normal police practice all over Thailand. If you want protection from the police you put your money in the red box they give you and a policeman will turn up daily usually on a mother bike, collect the money that has been arranged by the police as the price of protection and a visible police presence is seen so no one messes with that house or property or business.

What a load of crap!

We have 3 houses (two rentals) all with red boxes. The police comes around two or three times a day to check that everything is okay. They sign a booklet in the box with time of the visit (makes it possible for us to check that they have actually been there) and a signature. For that service we pay 1500 baht/month for all 3 boxes, not by any secret envelopes in the box but to a officer coming around to collect the fee.

This protection costs us about 7-8 baht per visit, which I consider extremely cheap for the security provided. For 12 years never had any crime in or near any of the houses.

Sorry, that corruption theory just went down the drain!!

[partington]

Wonder if it's a coincidence, that something like a day ago the "furious" local Thais were posting pictures of Sean in crossdressing-party at the beach and saying "why did you destroy our island", and making fun of him. The next day police announces they are looking for a "foreigner" despite Asian DNA found on Hannah. Sure the DNA could be another kind of Asian than Thai, but I'm almost predicting the announcement from police chief soon saying "We've now found the foreign guilty, it's Sean". Perhaps they are leaning towards this under pressure of the locals as well as the mafia? Or maybe not. The next announcement of this soap opera will be interesting (sarcastically speaking, I truly hope they get the right suspects and justice for the dead and their families, since these murders have been truly sickening)...

I'm wondering if you are right.

I had a look at the most recent Koh Tao story on the Thai language PBS page and although I can only read Thai laboriously, looking at letters, I did see the word "guitar" repeated a lot.

If they have decided to go in the direction of re-implicating the Sean guy, this would be an almost crazy move, as it would involve recanting on two claims they have already made (that they tested Sean's DNA and it didn't match any on the victims, and that the DNA recovered was from two Asian men).

If they have really decided to go this way, and not recant, it means inventing the most unlikely scenarios possible, similar to ones produced by deranged adolescents on this thread, and defying rationality. The actual murder does not seem puzzling at all: Thai men hitting on blonde English tourist, rebuffed, and possibly feeling insulted by her and friends. Thai guys follow them out to deserted spot and lacking impulse control, lash out with any weapons available to avenge their perceived humiliation.

None of this is remotely unlikely or unique: we have read this story or seen videos of it played out many times before : Thais who feel slighted attacking in a group with swords, sticks, and so on after suddenly and violently losing their tempers. None of this needs complex scenarios to explain or account for, and so represents the least improbable explanation.

The unlikely,strange and frankly incredible scenarios of motiveless murder followed by necrophiliac rape only need to be invoked if you believe the nonsense stories and pseudo-evidence that the Thai police keep floating, apparently at random, altering literally from one day to the next.

EDIT: I should say of course that I can't understand written Thai, and this news article could very well be saying man with guitar has been completely eliminated from suspicion. I don't know so I should stop posting!

Edited September 27, 2014 by partington

[englishoak]

Correction. Police are firming forensic evidence against 3 suspects on Koh Tao. We will see. They expect results in next 48 hours.

I get the impression it is more than DNA. They want the forensic lab in Bangkok to speed up processing this evidence. Let's see.

Source johathon head twitter

Edited September 27, 2014 by englishoak

[JOC]

The investigation has been impieded, misleading and investigated improperly due to the influence of a monk who owns swathes of land on Ko Samui.

Be a good boy now and take your medication!!

[ozzyrules]

Have you ever seen such total incompetence in all your life? First it's one then the other then someone else, then it's the bar owners son, or a cousin or we are nearly ready to make arrests, (nearly???), and then we are 85% there and now a 'foreigner' meaning I presume not Thai ( because Thai's couldn't possibly could they) . Do these people know the whole world is watching them act like complete fools? Can you imagine what the victims families are thinking and how they are suffering? Someone somewhere is going to get away with this. Do they really think the guilty are still on the island waiting to be arrested?

No, they are most likely on the island, partying every night as usual! Spoke to a friend of mine, who lived and worked on Koh Tao for several years in the past. He said that beheadings and violent murders are a "standard" occurence on this island. Often victims are Burmese because nobody cares about them, unwanted competitor's businesses go up in flames, from time to time a bullet finds it way into a skull of a competitor unwilling to close down or sell. One day a headless victim was dragged around the island to the peer attached with a rope to the rescue boat, while tourists were swimming on Koh Tao's beaches. If there's a place to avoid when travelling in Thailand, Kidney Bean it is!

I too have heard many similar stories over the years..same in Samui and Phanghan..

Time for the Junta to clean up, but it will never happen..

[JetsetBkk]

What's the Thai for "Keystone Cops"?

Keystone Cops, na.

[shawndoc]

Time for the PM to step in, order the local boys off the case and send in a team from out of town with no links to the local politicians.

[Wilsonandson]

On the DNA topic, I would tend to have confidence in Thai labs to obtain the correct results. However, I would not trust for a second the handling, organizing, collecting and storing of the samples by the Thais. Seriously, 3000 baht given to some dude and a sample is switched. I'm not saying that's what happened but just an example of how easy it would be.

As easy as bribing the chief of Surat Thani police force to dismiss reports that Sean told the world about.

[JOC]

Correction. Police are firming forensic evidence against 3 suspects on Koh Tao. We will see. They expect results in next 48 hours.

I get the impression it is more than DNA. They want the forensic lab in Bangkok to speed up processing this evidence. Let's see.

Source johathon head twitter

Source Jonathan Head??

I find most posters here more trustworthy!!

[whaleboneman]

And the "key witness" didn't come forward until now because..................

Because then the headman as not offering 1,000,000 to anyone who could prove his family members are innocent?

The headman offered the one million if a family member was found to be involved. Not to prove innocence.

And to any farang witness at night, any asian would look like a Thai person. My guess is if they saw a foreigner involved, that would mean he is white. Not that I believe this latest BS report.

[bimmerbob]

So the THIRD man was a farang..?

so.......the witness is better proof than the alleged DNA tests which showed asian origin of attackers? Unless of course my interpretation of yet another story is wrong.....

[whaleboneman]

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.

.

.]

This is normal police practice all over Thailand. If you want protection from the police you put your money in the red box they give you and a policeman will turn up daily usually on a mother bike, collect the money that has been arranged by the police as the price of protection and a visible police presence is seen so no one messes with that house or property or business.

What a load of crap!

We have 3 houses (two rentals) all with red boxes. The police comes around two or three times a day to check that everything is okay. They sign a booklet in the box with time of the visit (makes it possible for us to check that they have actually been there) and a signature. For that service we pay 1500 baht/month for all 3 boxes, not by any secret envelopes in the box but to a officer coming around to collect the fee.

This protection costs us about 7-8 baht per visit, which I consider extremely cheap for the security provided. For 12 years never had any crime in or near any of the houses.

Sorry, that corruption theory just went down the drain!!

Actually, aren't you merely confirming that the theory is true?

[ClutchClark]

A post I wrote has been mis-interpreted by some members of TV because of their very heightened emotional frame of mind.

That emotion appears to have replaced whatever logic might have ever existed so I will spell out what I was saying for some posters' benefit.

It has been suggested that a member of a certain influential family is involved in this gruesome double homicide. If that accusation is true, then the family has no doubt hired an excellent Law firm by now. That law firm will have long ago started looking at their strategy of how they intend to defend their client. If the claims made here by TV members about the family member's guilt are true then the legal team is expecting the DNA (semen) found on the female victim to match the DNA of their client.

That means the defense team cannot deny their client was present BUT they can claim that their client was a limited participant and has limited culpibility.

A court of law recognizes that different crimes have different levels of severity, ergo, they apply different sentences(punishments) for each crime.

Murder would be at the top.

Extenuating circumstances such as a brutal crime would receive even more penalty.

Pre-meditated murder , such as following the intended victim from a bar and laying in wait would receive more penalty.

Having sex with a corpse is considered by a court of law to be far less serious an offense than committing a brutal murder.

This heirarchy of crime is also mirrored by society. many people demand a murderer is an animal that deserves life in prison or even death. A person who sexually assaults a corpse is considered a "sick puppy" but society views it as a much lesser crime.

By some amazing coincidence, a witness (most likely Thai) has only now come forward 13 days after this well-publicized crime and happens to provide testimony that just happens to remove the murder charge from their client but it does not remove the clients DNA discovered at the crime scene.

So their client would escape a murder charge but admit to being a "sick puppy" and gets off with a very light sentence. The Thai people are happy because it means the gruesome murder was committed by a foreigner and not a Thai. Perhaps some Thai will even just brush the offense of sexually assaulting a corpse as an act of someone in the control of spirits.

The witness coming forward with this testimony now could not have played better into the defense team strategy than if the witness' testimony had been staged.

That is all I had meant in my earlier post. I would urge several of you to get ahold of your emotions and curb your emotional outbursts.

Edited September 27, 2014 by ClutchClark