Key witness says foreigner kills British tourists

[green job]

I have said many times,Sean must help to solve this murder. (a word not been used for a while on the forum ) He has made himself the key witness,and is the

key witness Ok he has a lot of friends,and is possibly a nice guy,,,,He can also play a guitar and sing (In the UK you can actualy become a knght of the realm for this) this helps in many ways:)

He must come back and clear up this crxp he has left behind, Sean it will not go away Ever

[JOC]

."the whole world is wacthing"

No my friend, most people have never heard of the case, and even if they had, they couldn't care less.

In a world where 2000+ killed in Gaza is largely ignored, you can't expect any international interest for a couple of backpackers killed on a Thai island. Sad but that is the way it is!

Every major newspaper in Great Britain covered this story. Go visit Richard Barrows website and his coverage of the murders to see the front pages of these newspapers. Never has such an event about Thailand been more published since red shirt protests of 2010.

I hate to inform you, Great Britain is not the whole world! Those days are over!

[Wilsonandson]

."the whole world is wacthing"

No my friend, most people have never heard of the case, and even if they had, they couldn't care less.

In a world where 2000+ killed in Gaza is largely ignored, you can't expect any international interest for a couple of backpackers killed on a Thai island. Sad but that is the way it is!

Every major newspaper in Great Britain covered this story. Go visit Richard Barrows website and his coverage of the murders to see the front pages of these newspapers. Never has such an event about Thailand been more published since red shirt protests of 2010.

I hate to inform you, Great Britain is not the whole world! Those days are over!

Not over! Great Britain is the first to be asked for help when the U.S goes to war. The views of David Cameron PM are second only to Barack Obama in world issues. The economy may have shrunk but the power has not. Britain's armed forces are still a major force to be reckoned with and envyed by many Asian countries.

[dealthedice]

****

How do you explain that the police only found DNA on the outside of the condom and that this DNA belonged to the victim David Miller?

It wasn't DMs. It was HWs. There is information which explains why and also why there was no DNA inside the condom. You can find it in one of my posts if you really want to look but I'm not going to go into it all again on here. It's vile and sickening and the constant graphic nature of such details continue to erode the dignity of the victims.

I didn't find your post. But you probably meant something along the lines of condom being used for degrading means? That would clarify why there wasn't an actual human DNA inside at all. But probably just better stop it here.

It just continues proving that the killers have been total sicko's, and I don't believe that sexual motives were their only or main motive in the heat of the moment, without anything prior having occurred. Just think how many sick things fits into this case. When and if the real killers are ever found, I'm sure their backgrounds won't be anything like a normal weekend tourist would have. Either they have lived somewhere where violence is very common, and faced it a lot, or probably been the ones to cause it. The things they've done simply cannot be performed by normal civilized person with rather "regular" background, without ties to violence or criminal activity. There's much more here, than "just" a regular murder (without belittling any case where innocent life has been lost).

Edited September 27, 2014 by dealthedice

[lucaswallachia]

The fact that Sean has deleted his facebook account & the condolences he made to David's page is weird

[MJP]

The fact that Sean has deleted his facebook account & the condolences he made to David's page is weird

I think he should at least be in the "person of interest" category. Needs bringing in. Interpol?

[Tazwa]

The fact that Sean has deleted his facebook account & the condolences he made to David's page is weird

Probably due to harassment. A lot of people have had some nasty stuff to say about him.

[Lupatria]

Looks like the only reason they accept farrangs over here is to take over their walletes and have scapegoats whenever they're needed

[green job]

."the whole world is wacthing"

No my friend, most people have never heard of the case, and even if they had, they couldn't care less.

In a world where 2000+ killed in Gaza is largely ignored, you can't expect any international interest for a couple of backpackers killed on a Thai island. Sad but that is the way it is!

Every major newspaper in Great Britain covered this story. Go visit Richard Barrows website and his coverage of the murders to see the front pages of these newspapers. Never has such an event about Thailand been more published since red shirt protests of 2010.

I hate to inform you, Great Britain is not the whole world! Those days are over!

We do still have the comonwealth club you know old chap, So crawl back into the hole you came from. Hope you are not a Joc, becuse I love scotch pie and

deep fried mars bars,and the grouse shooting

[rodroy]

And the "key witness" didn't come forward until now because..................

It's a miracle or a supreme coincidence that the Minister of Tourism arrives tomorrow and a super secret witness appears to ID a farang as the murderer!

In time quell the fears of European tourists!

[cheeryble]

What does a 70% match mean? Many scientists will tell you that a human actually shares 50% of their DNA with a banana and even more with other mammals such as pigs.

I know someone who's at least 85% semolina

[animatic]

70% match they have said, OK.

The question is, which 70%?

And that question might be used by some to muddy the waters. For a time that might work.

When trying to look for specific forensic matches, they won't be looking for the generic everybody on earth parts for matches,

but the ones that show familial connections, and yes the guys looking at DNA should know where to look and where not to bother.

Remember it's the big hats making the speeches, not the little guys who do the tech work.

Edited September 27, 2014 by animatic

[traviss]

People by and large don't realize just how far and how low Thais will go to fabricate a story, save face and save their butts.

It's quite obvious to anyone with any day to day knowledge of Thailand what is going on here; why the BIB said this, why the BIB said that, why the BIB played for time, why the crime scene was fouled, why the junta said whatever, what the headman's ploy was with his reward and alibis, why foreign social media was criticized etc etc ...yawn...

And we are all supposed to act dumb and soak up this nonsense like uneducated serfs living in a bygone age.

What to do? If the Thai authorities cannot face the truth, should this not be raised to an international rather than a domestic issue?

Although this was a great tragedy for the family, does it really rate as one of the world's great crisis that demands international investigation? What about all the Thais who die annually?

Look mate, its a great tragedy also forThailand. Yes it does rate very very high,and demands a international investigation. Thailand will not slip out of this one

that is guaranteed. The whole world is watching and waiting,mark my words.

"the whole world is wacthing"

No my friend, most people have never heard of the case, and even if they had, they couldn't care less.

In a world where 2000+ killed in Gaza is largely ignored, you can't expect any international interest for a couple of backpackers killed on a Thai island. Sad but that is the way it is!

time.com/.../thailand-koh-tao-murder-hannah-witheridge-david-mil...

nationmultimedia.com/.../Koh-Tao-murder-probe-85-c.

uk.reuters.com/news/pictures/slideshow?articleId=UKRTR46ZP2

mikeestravels.com/2014/09/.../the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

www.reddit.com/.../british_backpacker_arrested_for_suspected_m...

lockerdome.com/6301731373984833/6975765824673300

thepuffington.com/tag/koh-tao/worldnews.nbcnews.com/_.../26062119-two-british-tourists-m...

www.ibtimes.co.uk › Society › Crime

democracyforburma.wordpress.com/.../update-209-thailand-2-british-tou...

www.themalaymailonline.com/.../next-...

www.coloradonewsday.com/.../77492-did-thai-murder-victims-argue-wit..

timeli.info/.../Two_British_Tourists_Murdered_With_Hoe_on_Thailand...

asiancorrespondent.com/

www.radioaustralia.net.au/international/news/topics/Crime

www.scmp.com/.../naked-bodies-two-murdere...

news.yahoo.com/british-pair-found-murdered-thai-resort-is...

www.insideasean.com/.../Two-Thai-men-implicated-in-Koh-Tao-murder.content.usatoday.com/topics/more+articles/david+miller

scandasia.com/danish-expat-i-have-never-experienced-anything-like-this..

www.manilatimes.net › ... › Today's Breaking News

www.cosmopolitan.co.uk/.../british-backpacker-david-mill.

https://www.tumblr.com/search/Koh+Tao+Island

muckrack.com/topic/Hannah%20Witheridge

www.stuff.co.nz/.../forensic-report-into-thailand-murders-leaked

Perhaps many have heard of this case. Good to see you speak for so many people. The situation in Gaza may be a wee bit different than this case. Don't you think...

[surangw]

maybe the word key was actually thai slang for the kind of witness they have

[SPB65]

With every new "development" my heart sinks a little more. I've never followed a crime quite so avidly before and it is having a profound effect on how I look at Thailand as a whole. I came to Thailand about 10 years ago because I loved it and wanted to live here, now I'm sick of it and can't wait to leave (next month with my Thai wife and daughter). Something has shifted here in the last 5 years or so, even Thais feel this. This is not the happy-smiley country it once was and it's getting uglier by the day. I personally won't be sorry to leave. This murder case has really been the last straw for me. It really is an appalling state of affairs. It just makes me depressed now.

I was parking in your garage before, SPB56, and this after 23 years in LOS! I was close to selling it all and moving to either Canada or Europe, but then found my footting again, just recently.

Even though by now I am in the front line when it comes to rants about corrupt and inept Thai officials and "the system", I still love Thailand as such. I found that once you are on the tipping point, it is very easy to be intimidated to overrate the negative news which are always present and! - surprise, surprise - in any country!

Your focus shifts from the good sides to all the bad ones, and the more your mindset shifts the more bad news and reasons to leave you find. In the age of the internet and with social media, it is easy to apply a virtual filter to your browsing and posting behaviour that eventually supports the decision you have made, "I have to leave, this country is going down the drain"... There's a good read about the cognitive biases that prevent us from being rational: http://io9.com/5974468/the-most-common-cognitive-biases-that-prevent-you-from-being-rational

Not mean to lecture you, I have full sympathy and am as depressed about this cover up as much as you are. Hang in there, pal!

Fair enough to everyone who made comments on my post. Each to their own and all that. I've been pretty much hanging on here for the past few years, I met my missus and decided to see how that went, eventually got married etc but we both feel it's time for a change of scene and way of life. When you've lived here for awhile you do become like Thais and think nothing exists beyond the border when of course there is a whole world out there if you dare to venture. Our departure was planned way before this recent sickening turn of events happened and I'm sure we'll be back (at least for holidays) but for now we've both had enough. This scandalous murder and investigation has just brought home how dire some things are in this country. Nowhere is perfect but I can't stand this whole Thainess (which trumps everything) attitude anymore. Plus most importantly, I don't want my daughter to grow up brainwashed by all this Thai nonsense. How many well-balanced Thais do you know......?

[iReason]

I'm getting real tired of looking at these toads SMILING during these photo-ops, given the tragic circumstances.

I can't imagine any cop in the real world smiling at any press conference regarding a double homicide.

Simpletons...

[flyingsaucersarereal]

They are looking for a scapegoat forget the DNA evidence.

[simosiam]

The only way we have to send a message to Thailand is by boicoting Thailand and his goods production. The American downgrade should be set back as punishment

[Lukecan]

The only way we have to send a message to Thailand is by boicoting Thailand and his goods production. The American downgrade should be set back as punishment

Thailand doesn't need farang tourists anymore, they've replaced them with Chinese, Russians, Turks already.

[ALFREDO]

So the THIRD man was a farang..?

That would make a great title to a movie.

The Third Man.

Have, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Man

[brewsterbudgen]

Looks like the only reason they accept farrangs over here is to take over their walletes and have scapegoats whenever they're needed

If your only understanding of Thailand is from reading posts on Thai Visa I can see why you might think that. Fortunately, it's nothing like the truth.

[Mackie]

The only way we have to send a message to Thailand is by boicoting Thailand and his goods production. The American downgrade should be set back as punishment

It appears that local Thais from Ko Thao island could not care less what we think. Thais will continue taking advantage of farangs simply because we are too stupid to take any action and stop them from doing so. Thai women are our weakness. That's the only reason Thais keep getting away with the murder. Literally.

Holiday Brit murders mocked in Thai social media trend

FURIOUS locals have mocked a bungled police probe into the murders of two Brits in Thailand by uploading a series of tasteless ladyboy snaps online.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/401913/Holiday-Brit-murders-mocked-Thai-social-media-police-investigation

[Wilsonandson]

The only way we have to send a message to Thailand is by boicoting Thailand and his goods production. The American downgrade should be set back as punishment

Thailand doesn't need farang tourists anymore, they've replaced them with Chinese, Russians, Turks already.

It is 2 human beings that have been horrifically murdered, nationality doesn't matter. I think the Chinese, Russian and Turkish tourists are as put off from holidaying on this island as the western tourist is.

[lucaswallachia]

A different angle to this story:

On the night Hannah had had consensual sex with two local Thai men hence the sperm DNA. She later went to drink at the bar with her mate David and walked home together. The couple were assaulted and tragically killed in a fit of jealousy by the same locals after an altercation in the bar, who thought she was going to spend the night with David.

?

You are a sick apologist

Disagree. Nothing seems impossible now.

She was with her friends the whole time until she left with David between 3 & 4 am

Edited September 27, 2014 by lucaswallachia

[meand]

People by and large don't realize just how far and how low Thais will go to fabricate a story, save face and save their butts.

It's quite obvious to anyone with any day to day knowledge of Thailand what is going on here; why the BIB said this, why the BIB said that, why the BIB played for time, why the crime scene was fouled, why the junta said whatever, what the headman's ploy was with his reward and alibis, why foreign social media was criticized etc etc ...yawn...

And we are all supposed to act dumb and soak up this nonsense like uneducated serfs living in a bygone age.

What to do? If the Thai authorities cannot face the truth, should this not be raised to an international rather than a domestic issue?

Although this was a great tragedy for the family, does it really rate as one of the world's great crisis that demands international investigation? What about all the Thais who die annually?

Look mate, its a great tragedy also forThailand. Yes it does rate very very high,and demands a international investigation. Thailand will not slip out of this one

that is guaranteed. The whole world is watching and waiting,mark my words.

Are you kidding. This story isn't very big at all IMO. I hope you are right though. I hope the Brits push and push and this becomes a Natalie hallway type case. The Thais need to learn if they can't solve murders they aren't going to get tourist dollars. International attention on a much larger scale will be the only way to force them into that mindset.

[partington]

70% match they have said, OK.

The question is, which 70%?

And that question might be used by some to muddy the waters. For a time that might work.

When trying to look for specific forensic matches, they won't be looking for the generic everybody on earth parts for matches,

but the ones that show familial connections, and yes the guys looking at DNA should know where to look and where not to bother.

Remember it's the big hats making the speeches, not the little guys who do the tech work.

This isn't how it works.

A DNA profiling test is designed to look for matches. They do not decide which bits to look at based on the family, the test measures the same things in every subject. It has to .

The point is to be able to say: this DNA comes from this person, with a less than one million to one possibility of a mistake. It is designed to be an identification method, but one which has 100% certainty.

To do this all DNA profiles look at 13 locations in each person's DNA. These are always the same places, and they are places that have (to simplify) between 1 and 20 repeats in each location. As each location is present twice (once on each pair of chromosomes) there are two repeat numbers for each location. So if we call each location A, B, C to M (13 locations) , each with 2 possible numbers, a DNA profile looks like this:

A (1,20): B (3, 7) :C (4, 1): D (12 17): E (20,1):F (3,9): G (5,11): H (6,20): I (2,2): J (3,19): K (8,9): L(6,16): M (2,11)

Because each of the numbers can be any value from 1 to 20 (I'm simplifying but the principle is true) the number of possible variations of this profile you can get is literally trillions. So if you test DNA left on the victim, and the suspect and they both have this profile, it identifies the suspect incontrovertibly, because there are so many different possible combinations, it is impossible to get the same one from two different people by chance. It would be like winning the lottery twice in a row.

Now, because a child gets exactly half of its chromosomes from the mother and half from the father, it is easy to tell if any suspect's DNA is from the child of a person from whom you have taken another DNA sample. Because in this case half the numbers will be the same. For half the numbers to be identical simply by chance would still be impossible for unrelated samples, because there are literally billions of possible combinations. So if you found a DNA profile like this:

A (1,3): B (3, 15) :C (4, 2): D (12 ,4): E (20,19):F (3,14): G (5,1): H (6,16): I (2,9): J (3,3): K (8,11): L(6,5): M (2,10)

Here at thirteen different places in this DNA one of the numbers is the same as the first profile, when each could have any possible value from 1 to 20 in the general population. This identifies this DNA as from a child of the first person, with no possible doubt.

The DNA profiling tests performed on all samples are the same, and do not involve "deciding" what to look at.

[belg]

after 13 days, the right witness has been bought found

so where was he/she all that time ?

i guess it takes time to create the perfect storm of misinformation

[Mzungu]

The only way we have to send a message to Thailand is by boicoting Thailand and his goods production. The American downgrade should be set back as punishment

Thailand doesn't need farang tourists anymore, they've replaced them with Chinese, Russians, Turks already.

Japanese, Korean. But that is not enough. They always need a little more... It is never enough.

[sweatalot]

Their believablity is smaller than the ability of a fish to play piano.

The most likely criminals are in the family of the village headman. Unintenionally the police made that public

only to later tell the fairy tale they were DNA tested negative and that in a time remarkably shorter than is needed for the test.

Obviously a blatant lie.

And another "main suspect" of that terrible family was just believed and not tested at all - not even for exclusion.

And by the way - who believes the test results that they say they have got? No one controls them

They find a scape goat they get a sample - and then can you be sure that they not just take it away and tell the test was positive?

Problem solved. Foreign medika quiete - tourism booms.

[thordewar]

( I have previously added a post to this topic and want to edit my original one but cant find so starting again.)

My thoughts are with family and also friends at this moment.

We must all understand that Thailand is a little behind the times and stuck in the past. Because of terrible things like this most recent tragedy, it gets very frustrating.

Then the harsh statements are formed and a picture is painted to the world.

LETS NOT LET THE WHOLE OF THAILAND BE TARNISHED WITH THE SAME BRUSH BECAUSE OF THE ACTION OF A FEW.

Thailand is no more corrupt now than America, UK, and Australia (the list go's on) were back in the 70s and 80s and 90s with all the mob killings and illegal casinos, bikie wars. And during these times there was always a hungry cop out there willing to make problems disappear. Along with governments passing bills and laws for the right price of campaign funding. However this is not the subject at the minute so Ill get back on track.

If people wish to boycott Thailand because they are angry and don't feel safe that is fair enough and they have every right.
Bare in mind not all of Thailand is this way if you take yourself to isolated villages you like I did will witness an amazing community spirit. You might also see that actually the western world is lost in its way once you witness the innocents of these beautiful people.

( when was the last time you asked your neighbours for some eggs or sugar or stop off for a chat at the mail box. Or help cut the rice paddy or the rubber trees or the potato's?)

The sad thing is all the horror stories we hear of Thailand come from the tourist areas where drinking and prostitution are introduced by westerners!!!!!

I can tell you I have witnessed some terrible acts by westerners in my time.

Phuket 2008 a lady boy bashed within an inch of their life from a man from Australia.

Koh Sumui 2010 I was drinking at a coconut bar there was a young girl 16 or 17 serving drinks her older sister also worked at this bar.
Later that night a 50 plus man came and took her home. I was sickened but told to hold my tongue as to not offend this paedophile because he might get shy and not take the kid home thus the young girl not making money for her family!!!!!!!

My final event that I witnessed and became apart of was in Phuket 2011 I was staying at the aloha Vila.

I was walking to my room after a night out at the same time a young beautiful lady was delivering room service to a room 2 doors up from me.
In this room were a couple of loud Americans.

Moments later I herd a scream I went to investigate there was a lot of commotion coming from the Americans room,
As I barged into the room the filthy dog was forcing himself on the young lady while his mate filmed it!!!!

I diffused the situation and the police were called and the men taken away we thought to be locked up. No way they were back 3 hours later collected their bags and checked out, What do you think happened Justice???

The young lady then is now my wife did she get justice ? no she lost her job.

So Do we hate all Americans now? No just those 2.

Now for any of you that feel like the Thai people look down at us while we visit Samui ,Phuket, Pattaya and Tao and treat us like crap.

Have another read of what I have wrote about and of the tings I have witnessed. Now imagine all this and more happens daily to your own country men and woman in your own country by foreigners.

Finally I want to add all the people on this forum that are speculating about who slept with who, you make me sick think of the family and friends that are reading your speculations, Then put yourself in their shoes.

I hope the animals responsible for the recent tragedy in Koh Tao get what's deserved in this life and the next.

R.I.P HANNAH AND DAVID XXOO

Thanks for reading