Key witness says foreigner kills British tourists

[chrisinth]

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There was a condom what had been used on Hannah found near by... who used it on it on her?

Most likely it was David's, and they probably got interrupted just when they were 'getting into it' that David left no DNA inside.

Why would they (or David) take it off then?

That's got to be the silliest question so far. Think about it once again. If you were hit with the wooden object on the back of your head at such force that your skull cracked, the sexual intercourse would probably the last thing you would think of. An instant put off. Fight for survival. Unfortunately the young fella didn't recover from the initial hit on the head and they just finished him off in the water.

Then if that was the case, why was there nothing on the inside of the condom that links to David?

Perhaps its not as silly as you appear to be reading it.

Edited September 29, 2014 by chrisinth

[lucaswallachia]

For you guys that have seen the photos do you know if Hannah was found with the towel over her face or it was put on their by the police?

If she was found like that, it does give credence to her being killed first and then being raped.

I had the same question. Why would the police put a towel over her face for a crime scene photograph? And this towel wasn't there in other crime scene photos. If it was put there by the perps, then surely it is a major piece of evidence to investigate.

Maybe the police couldnt stand the sight of her injured face much longer

Yeh, but when they have her lying on top of the blue body bag / sheet, she doesnt have the towel on.

[Number 3]

For you guys that have seen the photos do you know if Hannah was found with the towel over her face or it was put on their by the police?

If she was found like that, it does give credence to her being killed first and then being raped.

I had the same question. Why would the police put a towel over her face for a crime scene photograph? And this towel wasn't there in other crime scene photos. If it was put there by the perps, then surely it is a major piece of evidence to investigate.

I think that is the towel on the right, on the rock.

Incredibly well spotted ! Bravo. So the police covered her face. Or a friend of the police who was walking the scene picked it up to cover the face so as to not draw attention to this article that may have been accidentally left at the scene. Is it the colour of one of the bar or guest house towels ? It s quite distinct.

[penoirz]

I say enough about the guitar because it was stated by police that Seans wounds were old and closed

To suggest the Thai police didnt swab the guitar, is just silly

If he lived there 18 months,

he knows everyone there including the local police

if he was in some prior situation, they probably are aware of it,

and the cleaning of the blood from his wounds was also prior to the crime.

not cleaning the blood off the guitar, is something you would have to ask him,

I play the guitar, and I wouldnt leave yesterdays sweat on my guitar, much less blood

I am waiting for police and DNA and for nature to take its course,

speculating further and rehashing what can only be a few different scenarios, after I have already put out my theory, just isnt smart anymore,

last time, simple theory,

David and Hannah walked by the attackers, or were found disrobing, in any case, if accurately reported, David was hit from behind with a rebar. rebar is all over the place as they build with concrete there. in fact, if you dont watch where you wa.lk in BKK, you can wind up with one in your leg.

They say David put up a fight, but he could also have had his knuckles scraped as they dragged him from the rocks to the water to drown him. he died from drowning.

I think, if he died from drowning, he couldnt fight back at that point. You would be amazed at how strong a man can get, when he is being drowned, unless, he is nearly unconscious already from getting hit in the head with an iron bar. I dont care if it is two or three guys killing him, I believe he was close to unconscious

The girl was probably hit, to keep her from screaming. which began the attack on her.

If David's shoe was on, then, he was probably fully clothed when attacked, and lost a shoe doing the struggle. They were on sand, and in a fight, on sand, shoes are an impediment.

I dont believe he had a condom on, with one shoe.

I do believe, they were on that beach for the reasons below

they may have been just walking and talking,

they may have been at the death scene, kissing,

they may have accidentally stumbled upon a drug deal,

they could have been there, for a sex drug deal of their own,

the killers either lured them to that spot, or

the killers watched them go that very secluded spot, knew why they were going to a secluded spot, and were overcome with blood lust and decided he was no match for them, especially if they came up on him from behind with an iron bar, and they attacked with the intent to rape and kill them. I do not care why, as assigning motive, isn't important

there is no evidence he David used the condom, but, I did speculate that the rapists wouldnt, so, the next theory is, the condon was used on her, but for all we know, it was on the end of the hoe, or, the third rapist was interrupted

it is also possible, the police decided to keep evidence to themselves, unlikely, but possible,

I think Sean knows who did it which is why the mystery of his exit off the island,

I think the two guys he says did it, did it.

I dont know if they will ever get prosecuted, if it is them, and I dont know if this case will ever get solved,

I do know one thing:

this case is an international event, and, with the PM putting his foot in his mouth, and with Andy from Twitter fully interviewing Sean,

this case has both the chance to be solved, and, this case has the ability to reform Thailand's approach to the falange, and while I hope the find the gruesome killers, I am as equally hopeful that real change will occur in Thailand, and with the police, because I like Thailand, and I have friends there, and I want to return, but

I don't like the way it is run, I dont want to be stopped for random piss tests by cops with money on their mind,

and I dont want any problems caused by a corrupt police dept.

I am hopeful this case does more to change Thailand, and that all mafia's are imprisoned, starting with the pimps

The condom issue relies very much on whether these murderers were acting spontaneously or were organised or had done this before.

if there is no DNA on the inside of the condom

there is no condom issue

They claimed there was her DNA on it, but no one else's. What a thought that is.

They need to re-analyse (or analyse properly) the condom

There's either epithelial matter that they didnt bother about, or the condom was unused and contaminated by HW's DNA at the crime scene

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

Wonder when they will present this new "Key witness" ? been a couple of days now and still no news.

[Number 3]

They need to re-analyse (or analyse properly) the condom

There's either epithelial matter that they didnt bother about, or the condom was unused and contaminated by HW's DNA at the crime scene

Exactly ! It is quite impossible to have NO DNA in this item if it were used.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Jai Dee
Multiple nested quotes deleted for readability

[TV7]

For you guys that have seen the photos do you know if Hannah was found with the towel over her face or it was put on their by the police?

If she was found like that, it does give credence to her being killed first and then being raped.

I had the same question. Why would the police put a towel over her face for a crime scene photograph? And this towel wasn't there in other crime scene photos. If it was put there by the perps, then surely it is a major piece of evidence to investigate.

I think that is the towel on the right, on the rock.

Well spotted. So the question is, how did it get there? Did David fetch it when he went back to his room? His room mates should be able to identify it.

[traviss]

Trip Advisor has been mentioned on a few of the relevant Koh Tao threads as of lately. There was, now closed thread "Should We Still Go", with negative reviews removed. I was not quick enough to have seen the negative reviews "Should We Still Go" but one TV poster has confirmed their existence in an earlier post. Some question Trip Advisor and even laugh it off as no surprise. I do...

I Just identified a new Trip Advisor thread "Is Koh Tao Open" I will also post this on the other active Koh Tao threads here on TV.

Many, TV members that have posted on the relevant Koh Tao murder threads have claimed the need to warn and educate the uninformed tourist of potential or realized safety concerns of/on the island. It is a need, same as any other destination. I could care less if the island economy is booming or in decline. However, I am curious to see if any one here takes two minutes to sign up, sign in, and post there opinions on the relevant Trip Advisor thread.

Should be interesting...Should also be interesting to see how quickly Trip Advisor closes the thread.

The above is my reply/post on the "Grand Travel"and "Tourism Tumbles" Just to be clear, I will not be taking the time to create a Trip Advisor account and post my two cents as I do not care how the island is impacted by good or bad press and find that any effort is a waste. I do not have a dog in the fight as I have no good or bad experiences associated with the island. Ethical and moral issues with how the situation, involved parties and their actions and how the case has been handled, yes.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g303910-i9415-k7837351-Is_ko_Tao_open-Ko_Tao_Surat_Thani_Province.html

Edited September 29, 2014 by traviss

[TV7]

They need to re-analyse (or analyse properly) the condom

There's either epithelial matter that they didnt bother about, or the condom was unused and contaminated by HW's DNA at the crime scene

I'm no DNA expert, but isn't it easier to extract DNA from bodily fluids? Any other DNA may have been missed. Can anyone have 100% confidence that these tests were totally thorough?

And the other possibility, that the perps put Hannah's DNA on an unused condom - for what purpose pray tell - is an absurd notion.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Jai Dee
Multiple nested quotes deleted for readability

[bunglebag]

Those trousers / shorts aren't Davids. So they must belong to a perp. Surely DNA can be got from them? Also someone just mentioned like 25 lots of cctv, which is not surprising. there would deffo be more than just what we have seen. I'd have thought they would have a fair chance of spotting someone wearing those trousers if nothing else. fairly distinctive belt buckle too

But what it comes down to is (a) who is really running the investigation (local or BKK) and (b ) are they willing to go for the real perps?

It keeps getting implied that locals know who it was. if this is so then the local cops know. But do the BKK cops know who? Why should they care about protecting the island crims? It sounded like different forces were trying to go in different directions at some stages. Would BKK big boys not have authority over the dodgy island police?

If so many islanders apparently know who did it why don't some of them just post it anonymously places like here? or fire it off to journos? I can't belive that no-one's conscience is pricking them (I'm talking about those with knowledge, not the low lifes that committed the crimes)

Edited September 29, 2014 by bunglebag

[lucaswallachia]

For you guys that have seen the photos do you know if Hannah was found with the towel over her face or it was put on their by the police?

If she was found like that, it does give credence to her being killed first and then being raped.

I had the same question. Why would the police put a towel over her face for a crime scene photograph? And this towel wasn't there in other crime scene photos. If it was put there by the perps, then surely it is a major piece of evidence to investigate.

I think that is the towel on the right, on the rock.

Well spotted. So the question is, how did it get there? Did David fetch it when he went back to his room? His room mates should be able to identify it.

Hmmm, maybe there were gonna have a dip and he got the towel or it could of already just been lying there.

Though he was staying in the same room as his mate Chris so he would of seen him unless he slept through him coming into the room.

[lucaswallachia]

Concerning the DNA in the condom, is it possible if the condom had spermicide in it, it dissolved any DNA if he only had it on for a short time?

[penoirz]

Those trousers / shorts aren't Davids. So they must belong to a perp. Surely DNA can be got from them? Also someone just mentioned like 25 lots of cctv, which is not surprising. there would deffo be more than just what we have seen. I'd have thought they would have a fair chance of spotting someone wearing those trousers if nothing else. fairly distinctive belt buckle too

But what it comes down to is (a) who is really running the investigation (local or BKK) and (b ) are they willing to go for the real perps?

It keeps getting implied that locals know who it was. if this is so then the local cops know. But do the BKK cops know who? Why should they care about protecting the island crims? It sounded like different forces were trying to go in different directions at some stages. Would BKK big boys not have authority over the dodgy island police?

If so many islanders apparently know who did it why don't some of them just post it anonymously places like here? or fire it off to journos? I can't belive that no-one's conscience is pricking them (I'm talking about those with knowledge, not the low lifes that committed the crimes)

I was thinking the same last night. The blue shorts must have DNA esp. around the waistband. Did they bother checking that out?

I don't believe they checked the condom properly. I reckon they didnt see what they expected to see (semen) and then it went out the window so to speak.

Also, are secondary post-mortems being carried out in the UK? This suggestion of a gunshot wound bothers me. Who would want to cover up a gunshot wound? Mafia? or coppers?

[lucaswallachia]

For you guys that have seen the photos do you know if Hannah was found with the towel over her face or it was put on their by the police?

If she was found like that, it does give credence to her being killed first and then being raped.

I had the same question. Why would the police put a towel over her face for a crime scene photograph? And this towel wasn't there in other crime scene photos. If it was put there by the perps, then surely it is a major piece of evidence to investigate.

I think that is the towel on the right, on the rock.

Well spotted. So the question is, how did it get there? Did David fetch it when he went back to his room? His room mates should be able to identify it.

Hmmm, maybe there were gonna have a dip and he got the towel or it could of already just been lying there.

Though he was staying in the same room as his mate Chris so he would of seen him unless he slept through him coming into the room.

Maybe they were going to have a swim, but things moved in another direction. This towel needs to be tested for DNA....if the perps threw it over her, there may be some DNA on it.

Yeh but her body is off to the left in the photo so if that's the towel on the right then the killers obviously didn't throw it on her.

[testosterone]

it was said, the guesthouse(s) send out beach-cleaners in the morning.

they discovered the crime scene, and it was them, putting the dark green towel (still folded, i think) over the victims faces.

Edited September 29, 2014 by testosterone

[transam]

UK has been very quiet. I have a feeling that <deleted> will hit the fan if arrests are not made as the perps perhaps are known.

Edited September 29, 2014 by metisdead
Profanity!

[TV7]

it was said, the guesthouse(s) send out beach-cleaners in the morning.

and it was them, putting the dark green towel (still folded, i think) over the victims faces.

It wasn't folded, it had just been thrown over her. It was light green not dark. But you're right it could have been thrown over her by the people who found her

[Number 3]

Those trousers / shorts aren't Davids. So they must belong to a perp. Surely DNA can be got from them? Also someone just mentioned like 25 lots of cctv, which is not surprising. there would deffo be more than just what we have seen. I'd have thought they would have a fair chance of spotting someone wearing those trousers if nothing else. fairly distinctive belt buckle too

But what it comes down to is (a) who is really running the investigation (local or BKK) and (b ) are they willing to go for the real perps?

It keeps getting implied that locals know who it was. if this is so then the local cops know. But do the BKK cops know who? Why should they care about protecting the island crims? It sounded like different forces were trying to go in different directions at some stages. Would BKK big boys not have authority over the dodgy island police?

If so many islanders apparently know who did it why don't some of them just post it anonymously places like here? or fire it off to journos? I can't belive that no-one's conscience is pricking them (I'm talking about those with knowledge, not the low lifes that committed the crimes)

I was thinking the same last night. The blue shorts must have DNA esp. around the waistband. Did they bother checking that out?

I don't believe they checked the condom properly. I reckon they didnt see what they expected to see (semen) and then it went out the window so to speak.

Also, are secondary post-mortems being carried out in the UK? This suggestion of a gunshot wound bothers me. Who would want to cover up a gunshot wound? Mafia? or coppers?

That amount of damage would suggest a hate crime or a cover up. If you look at the drag marks from the beach to the rocks where Hannah's body was found it appears that the drag marks do not show any depth or variation suggesting a struggle at that stage. She was obviously killed or rendered unconscious at that place. Both were attacked there it appears. David dragged to the water unconscious but still alive but Hannah s injuries are so severe. Why did they need to be so severe one wonders?

[lucaswallachia]

For you guys that have seen the photos do you know if Hannah was found with the towel over her face or it was put on their by the police?

If she was found like that, it does give credence to her being killed first and then being raped.

I had the same question. Why would the police put a towel over her face for a crime scene photograph? And this towel wasn't there in other crime scene photos. If it was put there by the perps, then surely it is a major piece of evidence to investigate.

I think that is the towel on the right, on the rock.

Well spotted. So the question is, how did it get there? Did David fetch it when he went back to his room? His room mates should be able to identify it.

Hmmm, maybe there were gonna have a dip and he got the towel or it could of already just been lying there.

Though he was staying in the same room as his mate Chris so he would of seen him unless he slept through him coming into the room.

Is it a standard sized towel or more the size of a hand towel ? Could it be from the local bar ? Should be easy to find the colour Scheme from the local accommodations...

Im not even sure its a towel looking at it, maybe even a short summer dress, otherwise it looks like a standard sized towel.

[DISKO]

Those trousers / shorts aren't Davids. So they must belong to a perp. Surely DNA can be got from them? Also someone just mentioned like 25 lots of cctv, which is not surprising. there would deffo be more than just what we have seen. I'd have thought they would have a fair chance of spotting someone wearing those trousers if nothing else. fairly distinctive belt buckle too

But what it comes down to is (a) who is really running the investigation (local or BKK) and (b ) are they willing to go for the real perps?

It keeps getting implied that locals know who it was. if this is so then the local cops know. But do the BKK cops know who? Why should they care about protecting the island crims? It sounded like different forces were trying to go in different directions at some stages. Would BKK big boys not have authority over the dodgy island police?

If so many islanders apparently know who did it why don't some of them just post it anonymously places like here? or fire it off to journos? I can't belive that no-one's conscience is pricking them (I'm talking about those with knowledge, not the low lifes that committed the crimes)

They would be able to get dna from the other articles of clothing and according to reports they have cctv footage from inside of the AC Bar it just hasn't been released to media outlets.

[DISKO]

This cctv image is really strange it looks like the person is covering up there clothing with another article of clothing or the shorts are too big.

[lucaswallachia]

This cctv image is really strange it looks like the person is covering up there clothing with another article of clothing or the shorts are too big.

So is that the same as this guy? Because this one is confirmed by the manager of AC Bar himself to be him.

[Number 3]

This cctv image is really strange it looks like the person is covering up there clothing with another article of clothing or the shorts are too big.

The shorts are WAY too big.

[Tazwa]

For you guys that have seen the photos do you know if Hannah was found with the towel over her face or it was put on their by the police?

If she was found like that, it does give credence to her being killed first and then being raped.

Don't know but the picture I saw was without her covered. Truly horrendous. I think they discovered her body without the head covered. The injuries and blood suggest she wasn't covered.

I cannot beleive they killed her to that condition and then raped her. That would be an abomination

The ones i have of her whole body where she was found has the towel on, while the ones of her head and lying on the blue body bag don't have it on so that's why i'm thinking they chucked it on so they wouldn't have to look at her face.

The photo with the towel over her head and her legs apart has got to be the first photo of her in the position they found her. So yes, disgusting as it is, they must have raped her after killing her and they threw the towel over her head.. Animals! Question is where did the towel come from?

It really would appear that the murderers killed her first and then raped her from the position that she was left in. How anyone could be aroused to commit such an act is beyond belief though. Either that or she was deliberately placed in that position after being murdered.

I had pondered the towel for days and how it came to be. Perhaps the inexperienced police found it nearby and thought it would protect her facial wounds from flies. Maybe the perpetrators placed it there so that they didn't have to look at her face, but I'm leaning to it being placed there after she was found.

A well-drilled forensic team would have the answers but this scene was contaminated from the start.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Tazwa

[Chetzee]

This cctv image is really strange it looks like the person is covering up there clothing with another article of clothing or the shorts are too big.

Yes is a very odd still image , almost looks like he,s holding his over large shorts up to me .

[testosterone]

who says, this is confirmed the AC bar owner? sorry, might have missed that.

so, thats why he was arrested - and his dna matched 70% (claimed on this thread earlier, but nowhere in the papers).

what did he say, why he was running through town without shoes at 4 am?

[bunglebag]

Reports suggest #KohTao police to release CCTV image of key suspect in murder of British backpackers on Tuesday

[TV7]

This cctv image is really strange it looks like the person is covering up there clothing with another article of clothing or the shorts are too big.

So is that the same as this guy? Because this one is confirmed by the manager of AC Bar himself to be him

.

Do we know from the CCTV what time this image was taken? I'm really puzzled by the lack of a timeline in this investigation. The Thai police have not been slow to reveal other information, but putting a time on the murders is the first thing in a murder investigation. The timing could shed a whole new light on this.

[YaiJung]

This cctv image is really strange it looks like the person is covering up there clothing with another article of clothing or the shorts are too big.

There is another image that I recall seeing (in Thai media I'm pretty sure) of a suspect standing outside a minimart wearing dark navy blue cargo shorts...same shaggy haired, skinny asian guy that keeps popping up.

Thought it was on Khaosod, but now when I click on the links to Koh Tao murder articles from a few days ago they won't load.

[testosterone]

Reports suggest #KohTao police to release CCTV image of key suspect in murder of British backpackers on Tuesday

the guy with the alien feet?

by now we almost know everyone on this island by name.

who could that be?

Edited September 29, 2014 by testosterone