Tanasak tells UN why Thai Army took control of the country

[tbthailand]

(darn quote controls)

The innuendo is from your part, not what the unattributed quote states, if you had anything resembling a spine you would articulate what you insinuate from your unattributed, out of context quote.

In any case it is moot, since it does not retract in any way from the article I linked to or your lack of intellectual honesty in avoiding the facts it contains.

How about we agree not to insult each other from this point on?

So first of all, I have a spine. I'd send a picture but really don't feel like it.

Secondly, I stated that it was my opinion that the attack on Suthep was a setup by Suthep and the circumstances from the event with everything from the last minute route change, the guards instantly finding the right room, blocking access to the scene, and even to finding a red-cap in the room do nothing to make me feel inclined to think otherwise.

The fact that you see nothing to make you think otherwise, on the face of the fact that Red Shirts implicated with the attack have already been arrested is why you are an intellectually dishonest person, thus your opinions are worthless.

your logic is flawed.

the police and military are not at all beyond torture and framing people.

Have you ever heard of Koh Tao? Insurgency in the South?

See - my point in saying 'were you surprised' was that it is to be expected that someone would be accused of the attack... especially given the change of 'government'.

Your article link in fact points to 10s of thousands of people being arrested. That sounds like a possible post-coup round-up and purge.

When someone accuses the 'NCPO' of any kind of torture, they answer with a blanket denial and back it up with reasoning such as "we could not have tortured the detainee because we don't torture detainees". Unfortunately, all the Human Rights groups are correct in pointing out that arbitrary detentions in isolation without counsel in unknown locations makes the possibility of torture more likely - something that has been shown again and again.

Given the methods used by the police and the military, there exists the possibility of getting any confession that they want. Combined with the recent history of accusations by the 'NCPO', I was not at all surprised when suspects were arrested. Thailand, in the best of times, is famous for finding scapegoats and these are certainly not the best of times, so, no, that doesn't change my opinion of the attack on Suthep.

And no, that does not make me intellectually dishonest. In addition, my opinions being worthless is - simply put - just your opinion. But I guess that answers my question proposing some increase in decency between us.

[AleG]

The fact that you see nothing to make you think otherwise, on the face of the fact that Red Shirts implicated with the attack have already been arrested is why you are an intellectually dishonest person, thus your opinions are worthless.

your logic is flawed.

the police and military are not at all beyond torture and framing people.

Have you ever heard of Koh Tao? Insurgency in the South?

See - my point in saying 'were you surprised' was that it is to be expected that someone would be accused of the attack... especially given the change of 'government'.

Your article link in fact points to 10s of thousands of people being arrested. That sounds like a possible post-coup round-up and purge.

When someone accuses the 'NCPO' of any kind of torture, they answer with a blanket denial and back it up with reasoning such as "we could not have tortured the detainee because we don't torture detainees". Unfortunately, all the Human Rights groups are correct in pointing out that arbitrary detentions in isolation without counsel in unknown locations makes the possibility of torture more likely - something that has been shown again and again.

Given the methods used by the police and the military, there exists the possibility of getting any confession that they want. Combined with the recent history of accusations by the 'NCPO', I was not at all surprised when suspects were arrested. Thailand, in the best of times, is famous for finding scapegoats and these are certainly not the best of times, so, no, that doesn't change my opinion of the attack on Suthep.

And no, that does not make me intellectually dishonest. In addition, my opinions being worthless is - simply put - just your opinion. But I guess that answers my question proposing some increase in decency between us.

So that's it, your master stroke, all the people that confessed, tortured, all the physical evidence planted, all the video and photographic evidence false, everything a conspiracy; so simple, so easy, so comfortable and satisfying...

And you have the chutzpah to say other people are in denial of reality.

[tbthailand]

The fact that you see nothing to make you think otherwise, on the face of the fact that Red Shirts implicated with the attack have already been arrested is why you are an intellectually dishonest person, thus your opinions are worthless.

your logic is flawed.

the police and military are not at all beyond torture and framing people.

Have you ever heard of Koh Tao? Insurgency in the South?

See - my point in saying 'were you surprised' was that it is to be expected that someone would be accused of the attack... especially given the change of 'government'.

Your article link in fact points to 10s of thousands of people being arrested. That sounds like a possible post-coup round-up and purge.

When someone accuses the 'NCPO' of any kind of torture, they answer with a blanket denial and back it up with reasoning such as "we could not have tortured the detainee because we don't torture detainees". Unfortunately, all the Human Rights groups are correct in pointing out that arbitrary detentions in isolation without counsel in unknown locations makes the possibility of torture more likely - something that has been shown again and again.

Given the methods used by the police and the military, there exists the possibility of getting any confession that they want. Combined with the recent history of accusations by the 'NCPO', I was not at all surprised when suspects were arrested. Thailand, in the best of times, is famous for finding scapegoats and these are certainly not the best of times, so, no, that doesn't change my opinion of the attack on Suthep.

And no, that does not make me intellectually dishonest. In addition, my opinions being worthless is - simply put - just your opinion. But I guess that answers my question proposing some increase in decency between us.

So that's it, your master stroke, all the people that confessed, tortured, all the physical evidence planted, all the video and photographic evidence false, everything a conspiracy; so simple, so easy, so comfortable and satisfying...

And you have the chutzpah to say other people are in denial of reality.

You are trying very hard to not understand. I've not said that all people, blah, blah, blah...

And recognizing the DOCUMENTED history of the police and the military is not denial of reality.

So get a life.

[Jim walker]

Followed by a slow hand clap or did they send enough generals to give him a rapterious aplause.

[AleG]

So that's it, your master stroke, all the people that confessed, tortured, all the physical evidence planted, all the video and photographic evidence false, everything a conspiracy; so simple, so easy, so comfortable and satisfying...

And you have the chutzpah to say other people are in denial of reality.

You are trying very hard to not understand. I've not said that all people, blah, blah, blah...

And recognizing the DOCUMENTED history of the police and the military is not denial of reality.

So get a life.

What would you know about having a life with your head so far down the sand?

Denial of reality is you rejecting any evidence that goes against your (self serving) opinion. You prefer to think Suthep staged the attack on his own followers based on zero evidence* while at the same time dismissing all the actual evidence pointing at a group of Red Shirts being responsible for it. Actual confessions, actual physical evidence, actual context of many other attacks against the PDRC and the actual historical record of Red Shirts using deadly violence.

Oh yes, you are not saying they were tortured and the evidence planted, you will just insinuate it, that's good enough and frees you from the burden of having to defend your argument.

*Oh, no, sorry, not zero evidence, you hold as proof of a vast conspiracy that the protestors found parts of a BB gun and a red cap in a room near the attack, so it proves it was an inside job because, of course, this devious people orchestrating everything couldn't figure out anything more damning than to plant parts of a toy gun (not even a full toy gun) and a piece of red clothing to frame the Red Shirts. The only thing this proves is that there's no straw small enough for you to clutch.

Edited October 6, 2014 by AleG

[tbthailand]

So that's it, your master stroke, all the people that confessed, tortured, all the physical evidence planted, all the video and photographic evidence false, everything a conspiracy; so simple, so easy, so comfortable and satisfying...

And you have the chutzpah to say other people are in denial of reality.

You are trying very hard to not understand. I've not said that all people, blah, blah, blah...

And recognizing the DOCUMENTED history of the police and the military is not denial of reality.

So get a life.

What would you know about having a life with your head so far down the sand?

Denial of reality is you rejecting any evidence that goes against your (self serving) opinion. You prefer to think Suthep staged the attack on his own followers based on zero evidence* while at the same time dismissing all the actual evidence pointing at a group of Red Shirts being responsible for it. Actual confessions, actual physical evidence, actual context of many other attacks against the PDRC and the actual historical record of Red Shirts using deadly violence.

Oh yes, you are not saying they were tortured and the evidence planted, you will just insinuate it, that's good enough and frees you from the burden of having to defend your argument.

*Oh, no, sorry, not zero evidence, you hold as proof of a vast conspiracy that the protestors found parts of a BB gun and a red cap in a room near the attack, so it proves it was an inside job because, of course, this devious people orchestrating everything couldn't figure out anything more damning than to plant parts of a toy gun (not even a full toy gun) and a piece of red clothing to frame the Red Shirts. The only thing this proves is that there's no straw small enough for you to clutch.

maybe we should agree to disagree.

And a red cap means it was a red shirt - of course, how stupid that I didn't come to that conclusion.

And ignore the other parts and just call that the straw to clutch to - you're so clever. Forget that Suthep changed the route at the last minute. Forget that this stopped the police from providing security. Forget that the PDRC guards found the room instantly. Forget that they didn't let in the police. Forget that they did let in the military. Forget aaaaaaalllllll of that. Sure, you can.

But maybe also try to recall:

the police have a history of framing people and planting evidence

the military have a history of framing people and planting evidence

both have a history of torture and extracting the confessions that they want

Suthep also has a strategy of 'staging events' - remember the blue shirts?

Suthep was the one to benefit from violence because it furthered his call for the military to intervene.

Suthep also has a history of predicting violence. It's a unique skill.

Do I believe that the circumstances point to the attack on Suthep being a setup, yes. Is that proof? Of course not. ButI look at the events as they unfold. In the same way that I have serious doubts about the recent claims to have found the killers from Koh Tao, I had serious doubts about the Suthep attack and the investigation afterwards.

To paraphrase my original reply to you, I was not surprised that the police would claim to have found the culprits.

The current head of the police has very close ties to the 'PM' and has long been an ultra-royalist. 'Finding the attackers' in this case is but a tiny thing that they have done - in just days after the coup they rounded up over 3000 people in KK and since the coup they have arrested over 20 thousand for a wide range of charges.

These arrests have been throughout the North and Northeast. The people invited to military 'readjustment' were in a ratio of at least 12-to-1 red-to-yellow.

Taken together the information indicates a purging process - a bit like what Suthep himself claimed was the plan all along.

When the police and military stop using investigations and mass round-ups as political tools, then they will have a chance to earn some trust. Until then, and especially under the current conditions, there is a good reason to be skeptical.

Head in the sand? Hardly!

[AleG]

What would you know about having a life with your head so far down the sand?

Denial of reality is you rejecting any evidence that goes against your (self serving) opinion. You prefer to think Suthep staged the attack on his own followers based on zero evidence* while at the same time dismissing all the actual evidence pointing at a group of Red Shirts being responsible for it. Actual confessions, actual physical evidence, actual context of many other attacks against the PDRC and the actual historical record of Red Shirts using deadly violence.

Oh yes, you are not saying they were tortured and the evidence planted, you will just insinuate it, that's good enough and frees you from the burden of having to defend your argument.

*Oh, no, sorry, not zero evidence, you hold as proof of a vast conspiracy that the protestors found parts of a BB gun and a red cap in a room near the attack, so it proves it was an inside job because, of course, this devious people orchestrating everything couldn't figure out anything more damning than to plant parts of a toy gun (not even a full toy gun) and a piece of red clothing to frame the Red Shirts. The only thing this proves is that there's no straw small enough for you to clutch.

maybe we should agree to disagree.

And a red cap means it was a red shirt - of course, how stupid that I didn't come to that conclusion.

And ignore the other parts and just call that the straw to clutch to - you're so clever. Forget that Suthep changed the route at the last minute. Forget that this stopped the police from providing security. Forget that the PDRC guards found the room instantly. Forget that they didn't let in the police. Forget that they did let in the military. Forget aaaaaaalllllll of that. Sure, you can.

But maybe also try to recall:

the police have a history of framing people and planting evidence

the military have a history of framing people and planting evidence

both have a history of torture and extracting the confessions that they want

Suthep also has a strategy of 'staging events' - remember the blue shirts?

Suthep was the one to benefit from violence because it furthered his call for the military to intervene.

Suthep also has a history of predicting violence. It's a unique skill.

Do I believe that the circumstances point to the attack on Suthep being a setup, yes. Is that proof? Of course not. ButI look at the events as they unfold. In the same way that I have serious doubts about the recent claims to have found the killers from Koh Tao, I had serious doubts about the Suthep attack and the investigation afterwards.

To paraphrase my original reply to you, I was not surprised that the police would claim to have found the culprits.

The current head of the police has very close ties to the 'PM' and has long been an ultra-royalist. 'Finding the attackers' in this case is but a tiny thing that they have done - in just days after the coup they rounded up over 3000 people in KK and since the coup they have arrested over 20 thousand for a wide range of charges.

These arrests have been throughout the North and Northeast. The people invited to military 'readjustment' were in a ratio of at least 12-to-1 red-to-yellow.

Taken together the information indicates a purging process - a bit like what Suthep himself claimed was the plan all along.

When the police and military stop using investigations and mass round-ups as political tools, then they will have a chance to earn some trust. Until then, and especially under the current conditions, there is a good reason to be skeptical.

Head in the sand? Hardly!

So you are saying that the suspect for the grenade attacks was framed by the military, correct?

Do you know when the arrest warrant was approved for the suspect on the PDRC attack you are trying to blame Suthep for? January 20th.

No please remind me when was the coup?

[whybother]

So that's it, your master stroke, all the people that confessed, tortured, all the physical evidence planted, all the video and photographic evidence false, everything a conspiracy; so simple, so easy, so comfortable and satisfying...

And you have the chutzpah to say other people are in denial of reality.

You are trying very hard to not understand. I've not said that all people, blah, blah, blah...

And recognizing the DOCUMENTED history of the police and the military is not denial of reality.

So get a life.

What would you know about having a life with your head so far down the sand?

Denial of reality is you rejecting any evidence that goes against your (self serving) opinion. You prefer to think Suthep staged the attack on his own followers based on zero evidence* while at the same time dismissing all the actual evidence pointing at a group of Red Shirts being responsible for it. Actual confessions, actual physical evidence, actual context of many other attacks against the PDRC and the actual historical record of Red Shirts using deadly violence.

Oh yes, you are not saying they were tortured and the evidence planted, you will just insinuate it, that's good enough and frees you from the burden of having to defend your argument.

*Oh, no, sorry, not zero evidence, you hold as proof of a vast conspiracy that the protestors found parts of a BB gun and a red cap in a room near the attack, so it proves it was an inside job because, of course, this devious people orchestrating everything couldn't figure out anything more damning than to plant parts of a toy gun (not even a full toy gun) and a piece of red clothing to frame the Red Shirts. The only thing this proves is that there's no straw small enough for you to clutch.

maybe we should agree to disagree.

And a red cap means it was a red shirt - of course, how stupid that I didn't come to that conclusion.

And ignore the other parts and just call that the straw to clutch to - you're so clever. Forget that Suthep changed the route at the last minute. Forget that this stopped the police from providing security. Forget that the PDRC guards found the room instantly. Forget that they didn't let in the police. Forget that they did let in the military. Forget aaaaaaalllllll of that. Sure, you can.

But maybe also try to recall:

the police have a history of framing people and planting evidence

the military have a history of framing people and planting evidence

both have a history of torture and extracting the confessions that they want

Suthep also has a strategy of 'staging events' - remember the blue shirts?

Suthep was the one to benefit from violence because it furthered his call for the military to intervene.

Suthep also has a history of predicting violence. It's a unique skill.

Do I believe that the circumstances point to the attack on Suthep being a setup, yes. Is that proof? Of course not. ButI look at the events as they unfold. In the same way that I have serious doubts about the recent claims to have found the killers from Koh Tao, I had serious doubts about the Suthep attack and the investigation afterwards.

To paraphrase my original reply to you, I was not surprised that the police would claim to have found the culprits.

The current head of the police has very close ties to the 'PM' and has long been an ultra-royalist. 'Finding the attackers' in this case is but a tiny thing that they have done - in just days after the coup they rounded up over 3000 people in KK and since the coup they have arrested over 20 thousand for a wide range of charges.

These arrests have been throughout the North and Northeast. The people invited to military 'readjustment' were in a ratio of at least 12-to-1 red-to-yellow.

Taken together the information indicates a purging process - a bit like what Suthep himself claimed was the plan all along.

When the police and military stop using investigations and mass round-ups as political tools, then they will have a chance to earn some trust. Until then, and especially under the current conditions, there is a good reason to be skeptical.

Head in the sand? Hardly!

"Forget this stopped police from providing security".

I lived next to a PDRC protest site for 2 months. In all that time, ESPECIALLY when they were on one of their marches, I did not see one police officer, let alone any "providing security".

That they changed their route, do you know what distance the apartment was from the proposed route and the final route?

[AleG]

"Forget this stopped police from providing security".

I lived next to a PDRC protest site for 2 months. In all that time, ESPECIALLY when they were on one of their marches, I did not see one police officer, let alone any "providing security".

That they changed their route, do you know what distance the apartment was from the proposed route and the final route?

The PDRC were a little mistrusting of the police, what with the upper echelons stacked with Thaksin loyalists and all that.

The changing of routes and the items found in a nearby apartment is just misdirection, it's completely immaterial to the subsequent arrests and warrants; the BB gun (AKA a toy gun) parts, walkie-talkie and a cap with a red symbol (unrelated to the UDD) were owned by a security guard at that building. None of the things found there have been since then cited as evidence in the case neither the guard implicated in the attack.

The only relevant evidence found at the scene was the spoon from the grenade (which was not inside the apartment with the toy gun parts), that bore the same engraved lot numbers as grenades used in other attacks against anti-PTP protesters.

[AleG]

maybe we should agree to disagree.

And a red cap means it was a red shirt - of course, how stupid that I didn't come to that conclusion.

And ignore the other parts and just call that the straw to clutch to - you're so clever. Forget that Suthep changed the route at the last minute. Forget that this stopped the police from providing security. Forget that the PDRC guards found the room instantly. Forget that they didn't let in the police. Forget that they did let in the military. Forget aaaaaaalllllll of that. Sure, you can.

But maybe also try to recall:

the police have a history of framing people and planting evidence

the military have a history of framing people and planting evidence

both have a history of torture and extracting the confessions that they want

Suthep also has a strategy of 'staging events' - remember the blue shirts?

Suthep was the one to benefit from violence because it furthered his call for the military to intervene.

Suthep also has a history of predicting violence. It's a unique skill.

Do I believe that the circumstances point to the attack on Suthep being a setup, yes. Is that proof? Of course not. ButI look at the events as they unfold. In the same way that I have serious doubts about the recent claims to have found the killers from Koh Tao, I had serious doubts about the Suthep attack and the investigation afterwards.

To paraphrase my original reply to you, I was not surprised that the police would claim to have found the culprits.

The current head of the police has very close ties to the 'PM' and has long been an ultra-royalist. 'Finding the attackers' in this case is but a tiny thing that they have done - in just days after the coup they rounded up over 3000 people in KK and since the coup they have arrested over 20 thousand for a wide range of charges.

These arrests have been throughout the North and Northeast. The people invited to military 'readjustment' were in a ratio of at least 12-to-1 red-to-yellow.

Taken together the information indicates a purging process - a bit like what Suthep himself claimed was the plan all along.

When the police and military stop using investigations and mass round-ups as political tools, then they will have a chance to earn some trust. Until then, and especially under the current conditions, there is a good reason to be skeptical.

Head in the sand? Hardly!

So you are saying that the suspect for the grenade attacks was framed by the military, correct?

Do you know when the arrest warrant was approved for the suspect on the PDRC attack you are trying to blame Suthep for? January 20th.

No please remind me when was the coup?

Well, this is disappointing, I was eagerly awaiting to learn how the Junta had framed the suspect for the attack on Banthat Thong through the use of torture, mass arrests, their hand picked head of police and planted evidence, four months before the coup.