Fresh clashes as HK pro-democracy protests spread

[webfact]

Hong Kong: Fresh clashes as pro-democracy protests spread

HONG KONG: -- Thousands of pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong defied fresh volleys of tear gas early on Monday as authorities tried to quell spreading unrest.

Overnight, riot police advanced on crowds who ignored official warnings that the demonstrations were illegal.

Protesters are angry at Chinese government plans to vet candidates in Hong Kong's 2017 elections.

Hong Kong's chief executive reassured the public that rumours the Chinese army might intervene were untrue.

"I hope the public will keep calm. Don't be misled by the rumours," CY Leung said.

"Police will strive to maintain social order, including ensuring smooth traffic and ensuring public safety."

Thousands of protesters remained camped out around the government complex overnight, despite appeals for them to go home. Many have erected barricades.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-29405195


-- BBC 2014-09-29

[loongdavid]

I just wonder how tolerant the big guy in Beijing will be. He should realise that a whiff of democracy courtesy of the British Crown Colony days is enough for HK citizens to see just how repressed mainland Chinese citizens are.

[beautifulthailand99]

Come on Thailand show HK how it's done - after all a free vote for Beijing appoved candidates could have been minted here.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[jayboy]

Interesting contrast with Thailand.Hong Kong citizens demonstrate for democracy and one man one vote.PDRC protested against and in some cases physically assaulted those seeking to exercise that right.

[thailiketoo]

Come on Thailand show HK how it's done - after all a free vote for Beijing appoved candidates could have been minted here.

What does minted mean?

[copa8]

For over 150+ years of British control, it never gave Hong Kong universal suffrage.

[blueyeshk]

It's just a shame how the goverment of Hk fails to listen to the people - sad to see but maybe there is no other way - freedom and democracy comes with a price to pay

[Matej]

I hope the World will not allow China to repeat Tiananmen Square massacre in Hongkong.

This crisis in HK will show us, as many events in the past, true color of clan communist regime.

Peking will not let win the protesters. I'm afraid dark days lay beforen HK citizens.

Hope for the best, but expect the worst.

[LawrenceChee]

There will be no repeat of the Tiananmen ...it's also reality whether the people of Hong Kong can accept they are part of china and it's a communist state and there is no vote.

When they were under the British governor rule ...they had no say as well who the governor was as it was appointed by the British parliament and endorsed by the queen and no one ever occupied the streets

As they say ...the Chinese government needs to get better in slick marketing of the western styled politics and they will learn over time how to do that better

[Matej]

There will be no repeat of the Tiananmen ...it's also reality whether the people of Hong Kong can accept they are part of china and it's a communist state and there is no vote.

When they were under the British governor rule ...they had no say as well who the governor was as it was appointed by the British parliament and endorsed by the queen and no one ever occupied the streets

As they say ...the Chinese government needs to get better in slick marketing of the western styled politics and they will learn over time how to do that better

People in HK stood up for something ... this is not only about democratic elections; not anymore, not for them.

it's also reality whether the people of Hong Kong can accept they are part of china and it's a communist state and there is no vote.

They don't have to accept anything ... In history, there were many falls of dictatorships, because people desired to live in free and civil societies.

Also this is not a chess game, those are real people, they are not dolls in the hands of fools.

We should all support them, despite many(including myself) don't expect happy ending.

[Publicus]

There will be no repeat of the Tiananmen ...it's also reality whether the people of Hong Kong can accept they are part of china and it's a communist state and there is no vote.

When they were under the British governor rule ...they had no say as well who the governor was as it was appointed by the British parliament and endorsed by the queen and no one ever occupied the streets

As they say ...the Chinese government needs to get better in slick marketing of the western styled politics and they will learn over time how to do that better

Reality is that the CCP Boyz in Beijing are 21st century fascists which is something the Brits in HKG never were.

Yet some here support the CCP Boyz while they don't like the colonial Brits.

Advocating a slick marketing of Beijing's censoring and punishing dictatorship puts one in the same cesspool the CCP Boyz splash around in.

[jayboy]

There will be no repeat of the Tiananmen ...it's also reality whether the people of Hong Kong can accept they are part of china and it's a communist state and there is no vote.

When they were under the British governor rule ...they had no say as well who the governor was as it was appointed by the British parliament and endorsed by the queen and no one ever occupied the streets

As they say ...the Chinese government needs to get better in slick marketing of the western styled politics and they will learn over time how to do that better

I hope you are right.One must give the leaders in Beijing some credit for their demonstrable high intelligence and long term vision (the contrast with Thailand is glaring) but there is a rigidity there as well which makes one fear.

But your post is very flawed.Beijing made a clear commitment to "Two systems One Nation" and one man one vote by 2017 was part of that deal.No Hong Kong resident believes he/she is other than a citizen of China, and is rightly proud of being part of thast great nation.But Beijing has reneged on the deal with its insistence that the HK leader should be drawn from a list of Beijing approved patsies.

Whatever the faults of British colonialism it protected the idea of the rule of law, a contribution which played a major part of HK's astonishing success.What is more China would not have permitted the British to introduce democracy to HK.Everyone knew the Chinese PLA could walk in at any time it pleased.When Chris Patten tried to introduce some democratic reforms the Beijing regime reacted like a scalded cat.

You are probably right that Beijing will get its way.But the spirit of the people of HK is very moving to me.What a contrast to their counterparts in Bangkok (sharing much the same culture, ethnicity, wealth and entrepreneurial outlook).The Hong Kong middle class has shown a wonderful example to the world of courage and hope.Their Bangkok equivalents have shamed themselves and the country's reputation by embracing a corrupt strret huckster and the boot of military rule.

[Pakboong]

At the risk of sounding again like a conspiracy whacko, I am surprised that nobody is connecting the dots between Ukaine, Syria and now Hong Kong. I expect India will be next but I cannot figure a connection.

The young Chinaman who is "running things" in Hong Kong was recently invited to Macau as a guest of Sheldon Adelson. The American Casino guru reported to be worth 60 billion. Adelson invited the whole family to the Macau Venetian all expenses paid.

[LawrenceChee]

The Chinese government discussed this at length and remembering the incident in Tiananmen and how everyone would label them from tyrants, fascists, dictator etc etc from the Chinese hating camp have learnt It's better to allow the HK police to handle this and allow for a peaceful protest.

The extent of what they will allow is debatable and for how long

I would like for a moment for the logical forum readers to understand a certain point of the Chinese government . It's communist and in their government style , it's not democracy and that's the way the country is set up.

HK is unique in their social experiment of allowing for protests and some resemblance of a democracy rule.

However it does not mean the Chinese government is comfortable with it and really know at this point how to strike that balance. The rest of the country is communist and how they handle HK is like adopting a new child and trying to settle him in the family and the house rules

If America and any of the democratic countries today had a ex-communist state returned to its rule...it will also face the same challenge of trying to integrate that state and deciding what's right / wrong

The people of Hong Kong have a right to preserve what they believe is important. It's now a balance of dialogue and ability to see where is the middle ground acceptable for both sides.

There is also no denying that HK continued success depends on china supporting it in many of it's economic front.

Changing the viewpoint they belong to China is just not one of them.

[Pakboong]

The Chinese government discussed this at length and remembering the incident in Tiananmen and how everyone would label them from tyrants, fascists, dictator etc etc from the Chinese hating camp have learnt It's better to allow the HK police to handle this and allow for a peaceful protest.

The extent of what they will allow is debatable and for how long

I would like for a moment for the logical forum readers to understand a certain point of the Chinese government . It's communist and in their government style , it's not democracy and that's the way the country is set up.

HK is unique in their social experiment of allowing for protests and some resemblance of a democracy rule.

However it does not mean the Chinese government is comfortable with it and really know at this point how to strike that balance. The rest of the country is communist and how they handle HK is like adopting a new child and trying to settle him in the family and the house rules

If America and any of the democratic countries today had a ex-communist state returned to its rule...it will also face the same challenge of trying to integrate that state and deciding what's right / wrong

The people of Hong Kong have a right to preserve what they believe is important. It's now a balance of dialogue and ability to see where is the middle ground acceptable for both sides.

There is also no denying that HK continued success depends on china supporting it in many of it's economic front.

Changing the viewpoint they belong to China is just not one of them.

US Openly Approves Hong Kong Chaos it Created

Read more at http://www.activistpost.com/2014/09/us-openly-approves-hong-kong-chaos-it.html#eVXWzAZeLtem0vej.99

Some US politicians argue war with China inevitable: Steinberg

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/09/30/380543/us-war-with-china-in-future-inevitable/

[onionluke]

I was watching coverage of the demonstrations on the local Hong Kong television channels whilst in Macau , live news feeds

showing pepper spray , brutal arrests , shot guns loaded with tear gas , hand thrown tear gas , loaded automatic rifles ,charging baton wielding troops and school children standing up to this treatment . Meanwhile on CCTV , nothing ,not even a mention of these events. They had programmes plugging Shanghai's new economic zone . In my opinion the forces behind the over reaction of the police and armed soldiers on Sunday night are cowards as they cannot acknowledge their own actions.

[jayboy]

The Chinese government discussed this at length and remembering the incident in Tiananmen and how everyone would label them from tyrants, fascists, dictator etc etc from the Chinese hating camp have learnt It's better to allow the HK police to handle this and allow for a peaceful protest.

The extent of what they will allow is debatable and for how long

I would like for a moment for the logical forum readers to understand a certain point of the Chinese government . It's communist and in their government style , it's not democracy and that's the way the country is set up.

HK is unique in their social experiment of allowing for protests and some resemblance of a democracy rule.

However it does not mean the Chinese government is comfortable with it and really know at this point how to strike that balance. The rest of the country is communist and how they handle HK is like adopting a new child and trying to settle him in the family and the house rules

If America and any of the democratic countries today had a ex-communist state returned to its rule...it will also face the same challenge of trying to integrate that state and deciding what's right / wrong

The people of Hong Kong have a right to preserve what they believe is important. It's now a balance of dialogue and ability to see where is the middle ground acceptable for both sides.

There is also no denying that HK continued success depends on china supporting it in many of it's economic front.

Changing the viewpoint they belong to China is just not one of them.

Always interesting to get another perspective and in this instance a thoughtful and intelligent one.So thank you.

A few points:

There are in fact very few China haters.Most educated people admire a wonderful civilisation and equally respect the astonishing progress of the last twenty years.The leadership in Beijing can take credit for recent progress.Has there ever been such a set of remarkable leaders.

And yet - there is a problem.The party leadership accepts no dissent whether in China itself or in the region.This is partly a matter of flexing muscle but in the case of HK there is also a clear betrayal of the one country two system agreement.

You seem to believe that the values of Beijing are those of a parent and those of HK an unruly child.Perhaps in some ways.In other ways HK has the superiority at least as far as moral integrity.Why should it be assumed the masters in Beijing will always prevail when the values of the increasingly wealthy people on the mainland have more in common with HK? Don't forget also the CP has still to come to terms with its brutal past under Mao.

But broadly I agree your hope a middle way is found.Incidentally don't forget Germany absorbed its communist twin quite successfully.

[LawrenceChee]

I was watching coverage of the demonstrations on the local Hong Kong television channels whilst in Macau , live news feeds

showing pepper spray , brutal arrests , shot guns loaded with tear gas , hand thrown tear gas , loaded automatic rifles ,charging baton wielding troops and school children standing up to this treatment . Meanwhile on CCTV , nothing ,not even a mention of these events. They had programmes plugging Shanghai's new economic zone . In my opinion the forces behind the over reaction of the police and armed soldiers on Sunday night are cowards as they cannot acknowledge their own actions.

Remember news agencies have a need to create a certain climate ...at the initial charge of things , human emotions take over and I don't believe the HK police meant to be brutal or anything ...it's the human emotions of trying to protect a state of mind

After the calm , I do believe there are lots of scenes of police helping the students , cleaning the pepper sprays from eyes etc and now they have retreated a distance to give them space

The question just as we have seen in Thailand is whether it will stay peaceful enough or will a long term occupation means a disruption of the normal way of life

I cannot believe any government in the world would allow the financial district to be blocked up for an extended period of time and I hope the resulting negotiations will mean a peaceful passé in time for both sides

[LawrenceChee]

The Chinese government discussed this at length and remembering the incident in Tiananmen and how everyone would label them from tyrants, fascists, dictator etc etc from the Chinese hating camp have learnt It's better to allow the HK police to handle this and allow for a peaceful protest.

The extent of what they will allow is debatable and for how long

I would like for a moment for the logical forum readers to understand a certain point of the Chinese government . It's communist and in their government style , it's not democracy and that's the way the country is set up.

HK is unique in their social experiment of allowing for protests and some resemblance of a democracy rule.

However it does not mean the Chinese government is comfortable with it and really know at this point how to strike that balance. The rest of the country is communist and how they handle HK is like adopting a new child and trying to settle him in the family and the house rules

If America and any of the democratic countries today had a ex-communist state returned to its rule...it will also face the same challenge of trying to integrate that state and deciding what's right / wrong

The people of Hong Kong have a right to preserve what they believe is important. It's now a balance of dialogue and ability to see where is the middle ground acceptable for both sides.

There is also no denying that HK continued success depends on china supporting it in many of it's economic front.

Changing the viewpoint they belong to China is just not one of them.

Always interesting to get another perspective and in this instance a thoughtful and intelligent one.So thank you.

A few points:

There are in fact very few China haters.Most educated people admire a wonderful civilisation and equally respect the astonishing progress of the last twenty years.The leadership in Beijing can take credit for recent progress.Has there ever been such a set of remarkable leaders.

And yet - there is a problem.The party leadership accepts no dissent whether in China itself or in the region.This is partly a matter of flexing muscle but in the case of HK there is also a clear betrayal of the one country two system agreement.

You seem to believe that the values of Beijing are those of a parent and those of HK an unruly child.Perhaps in some ways.In other ways HK has the superiority at least as far as moral integrity.Why should it be assumed the masters in Beijing will always prevail when the values of the increasingly wealthy people on the mainland have more in common with HK? Don't forget also the CP has still to come to terms with its brutal past under Mao.

But broadly I agree your hope a middle way is found.Incidentally don't forget Germany absorbed its communist twin quite successfully.

These are excellent points and reflect what the Chinese leadership is grappling with internally

There are a lot of questions internally in trying to adapt a communist rule in a capitalist environment on how much freedom and dissent to allow

The Chinese culture had a long history of mass rebellion and also indifference in the crowds when it comes to governance ...the trigger points are very different and any modern Chinese leadership have reflected on that heavily and asked where is the median where things will stay normalized

Indeed the recent rise of capitalism meant a lot of educated and middle class Chinese have traveled abroad and asked what do they want for their future generation and this question remains relevant to CCP if they would like to be respected and stay as the govt in power.

I am in the staying in Four Seasons Bora Bora for this week and it's interesting to see 70% of their guests this week are Chinese and the locals had to adapt their food menus to Chinese ...talking to the guests it's interesting to see a mix of honeymooner who came here on an article based on Conde Naste and some businessman here to try to adapt a similar business model for Sanya and they are trying to learn the resorts appeal

Hong Kong remains an important region for china to see that flux and what can be allowed and pushed to the point where democracy stays relevant in a communist rule. I am hoping the leadership will be the first to find that median breakthrough

It's an extremely difficult time for he CCP in transition and I salute the Germany government which took years and had the determination to integrate east Germany into a united country of today

Right now the world awaits to see if china will share the same success and have the right amount of temperance for civil disobedience.

It's interesting to note when the Chinese government officials traveled

around , the countries that interest them in governance remains the Scandinavian countries and those in some European states ...the health care , welfare models and governance have attributes they really like and would like to model and adapt to their communist model for china

[Publicus]

The Chinese government discussed this at length and remembering the incident in Tiananmen and how everyone would label them from tyrants, fascists, dictator etc etc from the Chinese hating camp have learnt It's better to allow the HK police to handle this and allow for a peaceful protest.

The extent of what they will allow is debatable and for how long

I would like for a moment for the logical forum readers to understand a certain point of the Chinese government . It's communist and in their government style , it's not democracy and that's the way the country is set up.

HK is unique in their social experiment of allowing for protests and some resemblance of a democracy rule.

However it does not mean the Chinese government is comfortable with it and really know at this point how to strike that balance. The rest of the country is communist and how they handle HK is like adopting a new child and trying to settle him in the family and the house rules

If America and any of the democratic countries today had a ex-communist state returned to its rule...it will also face the same challenge of trying to integrate that state and deciding what's right / wrong

The people of Hong Kong have a right to preserve what they believe is important. It's now a balance of dialogue and ability to see where is the middle ground acceptable for both sides.

There is also no denying that HK continued success depends on china supporting it in many of it's economic front.

Changing the viewpoint they belong to China is just not one of them.

You posted that....

"We are in essence first a family unit and everything in the family and then the family name clan comes first. We are politically astute and voice our opinions internally and it's vocal and critical when the government gets it wrong.

As such we are not repressed ..,we are just very selective of the people we share our deepest thinking of things with...

However it's not in our nature to be overtly critical in a public setting on TV and as such we look "oppressed" to the west with your TV shows where you can lambast any opinion or have a special day to make fun of your president.

As such I take it on myself to explain some of the thinking behind a Chinese mind and hope the majority of the forum enjoys that."

You have some 'splainin to do Mr. Chee that is well beyond anything you posted above. I don't enjoy much of anything you post so maybe this time you can depart radically from your pedestrian norm.

Here's a 17 year-old Chinese kid, Joshua Wong, that a Chinese lawyer in Hong Kong said is "every mother's son." Here's a Chinese kid leading a protest movement in Hong Kong which makes him exceptional yet he is described as " filial, polite, principled, hard-working."

Here's a Chinese kid whose parents say, "“We have always brought up Joshua to be compassionate, caring, principled and loyal and we are very proud of all that he is doing to make Hong Kong a better place for his generation and our generation.”

Here's a Chinese kid who in 2012 founded the student movement Scholarism that caused the CCP Boyz in Beijing to withdraw their new "patriotic curriculum" that was to have taught Hong Kong youth in the schools that multi party democracy is wrong and bad and that the one party state of the CCP is the universal human ideal.

So what happened to you??!!?

Joshua Wong: the teenager who is the public face of the Hong Kong protests

Co-founder of Scholarism, which kickstarted protests, has been campaigning since he was 15 but plays down talk of being a hero

Joshua Wong speaks to fellow students on the street outside the Hong Kong Government Complex. “My teachers have always said my only strength is talking and that I talk very fast.” Photograph: Chris McGrath/Getty Images

Since his release on Sunday – ordered by a judge who said police had held him for an unreasonably long time – he has declined to discuss what happened in detention or to be drawn into discussing his career as an activist. On Wednesday he parried such queries politely but firmly: “These personal interview questions we can ask later.”

Chinese state media have attacked Scholarism as extremists and a pro-Beijing Hong Kong-based paper claimed that “US forces” had worked to cultivate Wong as a “political superstar” – accusations Wong has dismissed.

Despite his ardour and bluntness he is not a rabble-rouser. “He’s passionate but measured; measured beyond his years,” said Michael Vidler, the human rights lawyer who acted for Wong following his detention.

“He’s so young but so wise that you can’t help but have a lot of time for him … He is every mother’s son – filial, polite, principled, hard-working.”

Vidler described Wong’s parents, Grace and Roger, as “a very quiet, middle-class, ordinary family”, rather than activists.

Wong has said: “They are not helicopter parents and do not spoil me … They have given me freedom, which has shaped Joshua Wong as he is now.”

But they have taken part in protests in the past and in a blog post a few years ago, Wong said his father had started taking him to visit the poor and suffering when he was a child: “He told me that I should care for the abandoned in the city. They had not heard of the gospel, and were living solitary and hard lives.”

The couple have described their son’s detention as political persecution, adding in their statement: “We have always brought up Joshua to be compassionate, caring, principled and loyal and we are very proud of all that he is doing to make Hong Kong a better place for his generation and our generation.”

http://www.theguardi...g-kong-protests

Could the CCP produce such a distinguished and balanced young activist who passionately yet calmly believes in his cause and who naturally attracts an association of a hundred thousand young people who share his views? The CCP on June 4-5 1989 massacred its equivalent young in Tianamen Square. How does one explain this radical and barbarian response by Beijing to its own youth in its own country?

Mr. Chee......?

Echoing Tiananmen, 17-year-old Hong Kong student prepares for democracy battle.

By Wilfred Chan and Yuli Yang, CNN

Mon September 22, 2014

.

Joshua Wong, 17, is the founder of pro-democracy student group Scholarism. In 2012, he led as many as 120,000 people in a protest that overturned a pro-Communist school curriculum in Hong Kong.

.

Hong Kong (CNN) — He’s one of the fieriest political activists in Hong Kong — he’s been called an “extremist” by China’s state-run media — and he’s not even old enough to drive.

Meet 17-year-old Joshua Wong, a skinny, bespectacled teen whose meager physical frame belies the ferocity of his politics. Over the last two years, the student has built a pro-democracy youth movement in Hong Kong that one veteran Chinese dissident says is just as significant as the student protests at Tiananmen, 25 years ago.

Echoing the young campaigners who flooded Beijing’s central square in 1989, the teen activist wants to ignite a wave of civil disobedience among Hong Kong’s students. His goal? To pressure China into giving Hong Kong full universal suffrage.

Student strike begins in Hong Kong

Wong’s movement builds on years of pent-up frustration in Hong Kong.

https://johnib.wordp...mocracy-battle/

[Publicus]

The Chinese government discussed this at length and remembering the incident in Tiananmen and how everyone would label them from tyrants, fascists, dictator etc etc from the Chinese hating camp have learnt It's better to allow the HK police to handle this and allow for a peaceful protest.

The extent of what they will allow is debatable and for how long

I would like for a moment for the logical forum readers to understand a certain point of the Chinese government . It's communist and in their government style , it's not democracy and that's the way the country is set up.

HK is unique in their social experiment of allowing for protests and some resemblance of a democracy rule.

However it does not mean the Chinese government is comfortable with it and really know at this point how to strike that balance. The rest of the country is communist and how they handle HK is like adopting a new child and trying to settle him in the family and the house rules

If America and any of the democratic countries today had a ex-communist state returned to its rule...it will also face the same challenge of trying to integrate that state and deciding what's right / wrong

The people of Hong Kong have a right to preserve what they believe is important. It's now a balance of dialogue and ability to see where is the middle ground acceptable for both sides.

There is also no denying that HK continued success depends on china supporting it in many of it's economic front.

Changing the viewpoint they belong to China is just not one of them.

Always interesting to get another perspective and in this instance a thoughtful and intelligent one.So thank you.

A few points:

There are in fact very few China haters.Most educated people admire a wonderful civilisation and equally respect the astonishing progress of the last twenty years.The leadership in Beijing can take credit for recent progress.Has there ever been such a set of remarkable leaders.

And yet - there is a problem.The party leadership accepts no dissent whether in China itself or in the region.This is partly a matter of flexing muscle but in the case of HK there is also a clear betrayal of the one country two system agreement.

You seem to believe that the values of Beijing are those of a parent and those of HK an unruly child.Perhaps in some ways.In other ways HK has the superiority at least as far as moral integrity.Why should it be assumed the masters in Beijing will always prevail when the values of the increasingly wealthy people on the mainland have more in common with HK? Don't forget also the CP has still to come to terms with its brutal past under Mao.

But broadly I agree your hope a middle way is found.Incidentally don't forget Germany absorbed its communist twin quite successfully.

These are excellent points and reflect what the Chinese leadership is grappling with internally

There are a lot of questions internally in trying to adapt a communist rule in a capitalist environment on how much freedom and dissent to allow

The Chinese culture had a long history of mass rebellion and also indifference in the crowds when it comes to governance ...the trigger points are very different and any modern Chinese leadership have reflected on that heavily and asked where is the median where things will stay normalized

Indeed the recent rise of capitalism meant a lot of educated and middle class Chinese have traveled abroad and asked what do they want for their future generation and this question remains relevant to CCP if they would like to be respected and stay as the govt in power.

I am in the staying in Four Seasons Bora Bora for this week and it's interesting to see 70% of their guests this week are Chinese and the locals had to adapt their food menus to Chinese ...talking to the guests it's interesting to see a mix of honeymooner who came here on an article based on Conde Naste and some businessman here to try to adapt a similar business model for Sanya and they are trying to learn the resorts appeal

Hong Kong remains an important region for china to see that flux and what can be allowed and pushed to the point where democracy stays relevant in a communist rule. I am hoping the leadership will be the first to find that median breakthrough

It's an extremely difficult time for he CCP in transition and I salute the Germany government which took years and had the determination to integrate east Germany into a united country of today

Right now the world awaits to see if china will share the same success and have the right amount of temperance for civil disobedience.

It's interesting to note when the Chinese government officials traveled

around , the countries that interest them in governance remains the Scandinavian countries and those in some European states ...the health care , welfare models and governance have attributes they really like and would like to model and adapt to their communist model for china

"It's interesting to note when the Chinese government officials traveled around , the countries that interest them in governance remains the Scandinavian countries..."

Interesting then that when the 2010 Nobel Peace Award Committee in Oslo, Norway chose the imprisoned PRC democracy advocate Dr. Liu Xiaobo for the Peace Prize the CCP Boyz in Beijing called them a "bunch of little clowns."

It was the first time any PRChinese had been awarded a Nobel Prize of any category and Oslo Norway is of course in Scandinavia.

Dr. Liu is imprisoned by the CCP for advocating Chinese democracy in China. Dr. Liu advocates a Chinese democracy that would be developed and implemented gradually, peacefully, in an organized evolutionary manner - nothing radical, nothing drastic, nothing violent or nasty.

Dr. Liu however managed to infuriate the CCP Boyz because he also praised the Brits and their colonialism in Hong Kong because it over time introduced the spirit of the rule of law there.

Here's more of what the CCP Boyz said and did in response to Dr Liu receiving the prestigious award.....

Besides a campaign through state media to denounce Liu, China has stepped up a diplomatic offensive. Two Western diplomats said the Chinese Embassy in Oslo has sent official letters to a number of European embassies in the Norwegian capital pushing them not to attend the Dec. 10 ceremony.

According to one of the diplomats in Beijing who said he has seen the letter, China cited its repeated position that Liu is a criminal for his advocacy of widespread political reforms and called the prize an interference in China's internal affairs.

The letter also urged embassies not to issue any public statements in support of Liu on the day of the ceremony, he said.

Given that Dr. Liu was imprisoned at the time, Dr Liu's chair was empty on the occasion of the Oslo ceremony except for the award that had been placed on it.

[LawrenceChee]

I suppose the USA will allow Snowden to leave Russia now to accept the human rights award he received in Sweden recently ....

[onionluke]

I was watching coverage of the demonstrations on the local Hong Kong television channels whilst in Macau , live news feeds

showing pepper spray , brutal arrests , shot guns loaded with tear gas , hand thrown tear gas , loaded automatic rifles ,charging baton wielding troops and school children standing up to this treatment . Meanwhile on CCTV , nothing ,not even a mention of these events. They had programmes plugging Shanghai's new economic zone . In my opinion the forces behind the over reaction of the police and armed soldiers on Sunday night are cowards as they cannot acknowledge their own actions.

Remember news agencies have a need to create a certain climate ...at the initial charge of things , human emotions take over and I don't believe the HK police meant to be brutal or anything ...it's the human emotions of trying to protect a state of mind

After the calm , I do believe there are lots of scenes of police helping the students , cleaning the pepper sprays from eyes etc and now they have retreated a distance to give them space

The question just as we have seen in Thailand is whether it will stay peaceful enough or will a long term occupation means a disruption of the normal way of life

I cannot believe any government in the world would allow the financial district to be blocked up for an extended period of time and I hope the resulting negotiations will mean a peaceful passé in time for both sides

I agree with your point on news agencies being used to manipulate opinion but for the PRC media to claim the protests were in fact Hong Kong people celebrating the anniversary of the creation of the communist state is laughable .

The police no doubt regretted their actions and as of yesterday were few on the ground . The peaceful demonstration is now playing out and we shall see how long the students can carry on . Another note of interest here in HK was the spontaneous other demonstrations happening peacefully in Mong Kok and Causeway Bay where the police presence was almost non existent. They were caught out or flat footed if you will allow me the pun.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/p280x280/10610550_10152722151054820_6531223515924183920_n.jpg?oh=e87a0ac2ae1f0f7ad7c1b996b324cdba&oe=54BD35C4&__gda__=1421249339_09b35207fee6eefa665240c244060e89

https://scontent-a-hkg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/p350x350/1621825_305129853024020_8848153670045516432_n.jpg?oh=e61ac0afee9ade22ed2e9d16884af201&oe=54BE9A04

Edited October 2, 2014 by onionluke

[h90]

I just wonder how tolerant the big guy in Beijing will be. He should realise that a whiff of democracy courtesy of the British Crown Colony days is enough for HK citizens to see just how repressed mainland Chinese citizens are.

I have a lot contacts with mainland Chinese and they don't feel very repressed....I would even say they are more happy with their government than we are in Europe with out democratic elected one.

(Of course there aren't much critical media, but still)