My rights as a buyer of faulty 2nd hand electric appliances

[JLCrab]

Truth or not your intent is to cause damage to this business far beyond what are your actual damages.

[arnold40844]

Truth or not your intent is to cause damage to this business far beyond what are your actual damages.

But its an honest review of a service provided by a company. If we were only legally allowed to provide positive reviews there would be no value in online reviews.

I did not go to Dusit Zoo after reading online reviews, same with the crocodile farm in Samut Prakan. Largely due to people writing about animal cruelty. I have decided against certain hotels after reading reviews online, cars, brands of washing machine. Do all these companies sue for defamation of character even though they have lost business?

Edited September 29, 2014 by arnold40844

[JLCrab]

So you say this is an established business for which you could find no online reviews of dissatisfied customers. So are you maybe the only one?

[arnold40844]

So you say this is an established business for which you could find no online reviews of dissatisfied customers. So are you maybe the only one?

They have been going for 10+ years, its unsurprising given the countries attitude towards this sort of thing.

I just want a working aircon, surely that is not unreasonable. Its been 2 months now.

[JLCrab]

You should get working replacements for the air cons or your money back. What you have written is that you would like to damage this company's reputation who has had hundreds if not thousands of satisfied customers or at least that would be his version of 'the truth'.

[arnold40844]

You should get working replacements for the air cons or your money back. What you have written is that you would like to damage this company's reputation who has had hundreds if not thousands of satisfied customers or at least that would be his version of 'the truth'.

That is all I want, but after 2 months of trying I am just sick of it, i have spent far to much time trying to reason with the guy, he actually speaks very good english. Like I said if I call him now he will not answer, if i call him from a different number he answers and hangs up as soon as he hears its me. He has hung up on my wife +100 times saying he is too busy to talk and that he will call her back but never does.

I emailed him this morning saying that i will be removing the aircons at my own cost, he has setup 6 appointments to remove them and missed every one over the last 2 weeks. I have just had enough it.

[bertty]

Buying 2nd hand in a 3rd world country is a 5th rate idea.

Edited September 29, 2014 by bertty

[JLCrab]

You have said you are going to the police today. Fine. But what you wrote above was:

He has insulted me personally and caused my family a great of stress and discomfort, I want him to pay and I want his company defamed publicly.

I would suggest keeping such sentiments out of the discussion with the police or other possible authorities that might help you.

Edited September 29, 2014 by JLCrab

[Boxclever]

My wife often buys second hand goods through the internet but through bitter past experiences we now only buy things that are non mechanical or electrical. In Thailand, when you buy second hand goods you are only buying other peoples problems. I only buy new these days NEVER second hand. I feel your pain Arnold but I think you're best to just let it go, his karma will catch up on him one day...

[arnold40844]

You have said you are going to the police today. Fine. But what you wrote above was:

He has insulted me personally and caused my family a great of stress and discomfort, I want him to pay and I want his company defamed publicly.

I would suggest keeping such sentiments out of the discussion with the police or other possible authorities that might help you.

I agree 100%. This is just anger talking, I waited all weekend for the guy to arrive, he did not show and then just hung up on me when I called him.

What would you do in this situation?

[JLCrab]

I have no idea -- that's why I rent.

[Gecko123]

OP:

Why aren't you at the police station with your wife? I'm really interested in what the cops tell you.

[arnold40844]

I have no idea -- that's why I rent.

It was a stupid move and I should never have gone 2nd hand. When I priced up new units it was coming in at +80k THB for the right BTU outputs. He said the were only 3 years old and with the warranty I thought it may save a few quid.

The other 2 are absolutely fine, no issues whatsoever.

I think im just going to do what I said earlier. Tell him they are all of a sudden working well, send him a big hamper as a thank you for all his help, have them replaced and move on with my life.

[arnold40844]

OP:

Why aren't you at the police station with your wife? I'm really interested in what the cops tell you.

I think I will just let her deal with that side of it. I dont really see how my presence will help.

I will let you know how its gone later on today.

[arnold40844]

He called my wife this morning and said he will pick up both faulty units on Wednesday and issue a full refund. he said exactly the same thing last week so not holding out much hope.

Despite my lack of confidence I am going to give him till Wednesday, will speak with the consumer protection office today to get a better idea of my rights.

[baldingfatso]

Arnold:

I apologize for being so flippant in my earlier post; I couldn't resist the temptation. I'll confess I didn't read your post as carefully as I might have.

Actually, I had a similar experience when I was settling in 10 years ago. I was tricked into paying a guy to dig a well, and only after paying did I realize that the well was non-functioning.

It was only after a second contractor came in and did the job right that I realized how brazenly I had been ripped off.

So the way we got this resolved, was by getting the cops involved. If you have the paperwork (bill of sale, written warranties, etc.) you should be able to go down to the local police station and file a complaint. Ideally, you want a cop to go out to the vendor's place of business/home and demand that he fulfill the warranty or refund your money. Hopefully, the mere presence of the cops showing up will embarass the vendor sufficiently that he resolves this issue immediately. You may have to give the cop a financial incentive in order to get them to do this. I would also have my Thai wife be the point person when talking to the cops. If the cops try to tell you that this is a 'civil' matter which they don't want to get involved with, I'm not sure about this, but I'm pretty sure that refusing to honor a written warranty falls under one criminal statute or another, i.e., fraud, taking money under false pretenses, etc.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for that. I have asked my wife to go to the police his afternoon on her lunch break. If I had bought them from from a classified ad on dealfish i would probably just let it lie. The fact the he has a warehouse full of 500+ aircons and drives around in a 4.2m THB car its really struck a nerve.

Lets see how we get on with the police today, I dont mind paying a few G's for their assistance, he has just insulted me and to be honest its been a nightmare this last 6 weeks all sleeping in the same room.

Thanks again for the advice.

sorry about your dilemma but please tread carefully,if his place is that big you might find out the hard way who you might be dealing with,if you get my meaning.so yes i hate to get taken for a ride,but as this is thailand i have learnt when to keep my mouth shut[very hard] and walk away while i can.so please for your sake forget it.you will never win.

Thanks for your input. I appreciate what you are saying and do have some concerns around what the guy is capable of.

I could just write him an apology saying they are both miraculously working now, sell the aircons, cut my losses and then pay a team of Indian bloggers working through VPN's to write negative online content about his company in multiple languages over the next 3 months.

farang has too much money thais should be allowed to take some off him in the form of broken airconditioner units.

[arnold40844]

LOL

You make a strong argument

[hellohello123]

This is totally unacceptable!!

sure 2nd hand bears more risk but it bears more risk after the warranty has expired, (plus you dont get the warm fuzzy feeling of buing new)

By just remaining silent, you are encourcaging his bad behaviour, and indreictly telling him that his actions are ok, and he can keep on doing it

I know it will cost to get lawyers involved, but you can sue him for it too (getting him to pay is obvioiusly another battle)

I find that often a strong worded letter from a lawyer gets most people scared into doing the right thing!

its these sort of stories in any country that makes my blood boil!!

[hellohello123]

You have said you are going to the police today. Fine. But what you wrote above was:

He has insulted me personally and caused my family a great of stress and discomfort, I want him to pay and I want his company defamed publicly.

I would suggest keeping such sentiments out of the discussion with the police or other possible authorities that might help you.

and you would expect a thai person not to mention losing face, and stress and discomfort as a reason/excuse for his poor behaviour when he gets confronted or backed into a corner?!?!?!?!!?!

[ryanhull]

OP: buying second hand air con units is never a good idea, if it was me, id look at asking another company to come and fix them or at-least give you a price on fixing them to save any stress. Atleast you know they are safe to use and whats wrong with them.

Next time pay the money AFTER the units have been installed to your satisfaction.

Do not know any company in the world who is going to install any electrical item on the basis you will pay after?

[JLCrab]

You have said you are going to the police today. Fine. But what you wrote above was:

He has insulted me personally and caused my family a great of stress and discomfort, I want him to pay and I want his company defamed publicly.

I would suggest keeping such sentiments out of the discussion with the police or other possible authorities that might help you.

and you would expect a thai person not to mention losing face, and stress and discomfort as a reason/excuse for his poor behaviour when he gets confronted or backed into a corner?!?!?!?!!?!

I dunno -- he may just say the OP is a nut case harassing his employees with hundreds of phone calls and that none of his employees want to go out to house because they are concerned for their safety.

[arnold40844]

You have said you are going to the police today. Fine. But what you wrote above was:

He has insulted me personally and caused my family a great of stress and discomfort, I want him to pay and I want his company defamed publicly.

I would suggest keeping such sentiments out of the discussion with the police or other possible authorities that might help you.

and you would expect a thai person not to mention losing face, and stress and discomfort as a reason/excuse for his poor behaviour when he gets confronted or backed into a corner?!?!?!?!!?!

I dunno -- he may just say the OP is a nut case harassing his employees with hundreds of phone calls and that none of his employees want to go out to house because they are concerned for their safety.

Not that it matters but I would just like to say I have remained calm throughout this entire ordeal, given him every chance to rectify the faulty units, I have been polite and to be honest almost everything has been dealt with by my wife. What would you do if you waited 10 days for someone to come and repair a faulty aircon that you just purchased, only for them to leave and it not to be fixed, then to have them do it again, then again, and again.

I think I have been more than reasonable here.

[FritsSikkink]

I take it these are room/window units? Doubtful you'll have much in the way of rights as they are second-hand. In any country. If you signed a contract, then you at least have that. But, yeah. Cut your losses, especially if lawyers get involved.

Also, not to be demeaning, but they are pretty simple to DIY.( Notice I didn't say easy.)

One is an 18000 BTU the other is a 12000 BTU. I have a receipt saying that I have 12 warranty, surely that means I have some level of protection. I would never have gone with them if that was not the case.

The gas is leaking of one of the units, they have come to re-gas it 5 times in 2 months. i do not understand this at all. The other one is just making an awful banging noise at the compressor after more than 30 minutes of operation. i dont want to start getting other engineers involved or trying to repair myself as they are supposed to be under warranty.

Before you see a lawyer find out what warranty you have. Is it for parts only and do you have to pay for the labour or a full warranty?

[JLCrab]

I only commented as to what someone else might say instead of the 'losing face' scenario. OP wrote on here about wanting to destroy the vendor's reputation. As with anything on this website, however, and especially items posted in the Insurance section, you only get to hear one side of the story.

[arnold40844]

I take it these are room/window units? Doubtful you'll have much in the way of rights as they are second-hand. In any country. If you signed a contract, then you at least have that. But, yeah. Cut your losses, especially if lawyers get involved.

Also, not to be demeaning, but they are pretty simple to DIY.( Notice I didn't say easy.)

One is an 18000 BTU the other is a 12000 BTU. I have a receipt saying that I have 12 warranty, surely that means I have some level of protection. I would never have gone with them if that was not the case.

The gas is leaking of one of the units, they have come to re-gas it 5 times in 2 months. i do not understand this at all. The other one is just making an awful banging noise at the compressor after more than 30 minutes of operation. i dont want to start getting other engineers involved or trying to repair myself as they are supposed to be under warranty.

Before you see a lawyer find out what warranty you have. Is it for parts only and do you have to pay for the labour or a full warranty?

On the warranty it says "We guarantee all the parts for one year."

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

You have the right to remain silent.

Anything you say cannot and will not be understood.

You have the right to hire an attorney at a cost of 4 times the damages you are seeking to recover.

If you win your case, good luck actually collecting damages.

Caveat emptor, friend, caveat emptor.

i am sure this is fairly true, i would rather spend 200k THB on legal than letting someone like this get away with it.

I think he should be exposed publicly for what he is, reducing the number of victims in the future.

thats called cutting off your nose to spite your face

I would assume that he is liable for reimbursing my costs, i cannot see that he has a leg to stand on. I have emails sent to him over the last 2 months, texts, probably 200+ phone calls and still 2 broken aircons. Surely you have to appreciate my frustration when I have 12 months warranty and its been going on for 2 months now.

I think he is a dishonest low life crook and I would like to destroy his reputation.

Time to slow down dear OP.

This is not the USA , UK, Germany, OZ or wherever.

I hope you realize there is risk that if you 'expose him', you may well open up a can of worms regarding revenge etc., putting your wife or kids into risk zones.

It's also worth remembering that immoral and unethical people exist in all countries, the difference is that in many first world countries these unethical people face severe legal punishments which they are afraid of and in most of these areas the police are not corrupt.

Leave it alone and move on, gets some new units quickly and really 'chill out'.

Edited September 29, 2014 by scorecard

[kandi]

@arnold40844: First off: Everything you say is right. You're right, it's totally unacceptable to let somebody come through with such a scam and it'd only be your right to warn other people about this crook. Certainly you weren't the only one who fell for him.

And there comes the but. I don't know how many years you've been living here now, but I'm quite sure you also found out that a life in this country is not the most valuable thing and that Thai people can react - how do I put this nicely - a bit illogical towards direct accusastions, even if they're 100% right. Sometimes it's better to let things be, especially when talking about a relatively little amount of money.

It's a thin line: On one side you want to keep your integrety, on the other side you want to keep your dignity and show others that they can't treat you like this. Keeping the balance is probably one of the most difficult things for me while living in this country. But whatever you do, don't forget that there are enough people in this country who were killed because of a lot less (a 51 Baht taxi fare, a broken tablet, unfinished homework, .... the list is long).

[Arkady]

Thailand does have a consumer protection law but it has no teeth. Activists have pushed for a proper law for years to no avail. That's why you see pictures of consumers setting fire to their brand new non-functional Toyotas and Hondas in front of shopping malls to get media attention for their plight - usually works quite well.

So this is just a private dispute between you and the lowlife which the lowlife is going to win. Write off these air conditioners and buy some decent ones installed safely by a qualified electrician who is not going to gerry rig them so that your place burns down. I just bought a new Daikin air con with the new R32 refrigerant from a company called Bettercool in Bkk that are far cheaper than dept stores. The technician has been trained by Daikin and they will even give you B1,000 each for your junk aircons for the parts.

[ezzra]

The op have asked and was answered, you or your loved ones didn't got electrocuted

and the house didn't burned down,,,, you're a lucky man...

[arnold40844]

Thailand does have a consumer protection law but it has no teeth. Activists have pushed for a proper law for years to no avail. That's why you see pictures of consumers setting fire to their brand new non-functional Toyotas and Hondas in front of shopping malls to get media attention for their plight - usually works quite well.

So this is just a private dispute between you and the lowlife which the lowlife is going to win. Write off these air conditioners and buy some decent ones installed safely by a qualified electrician who is not going to gerry rig them so that your place burns down. I just bought a new Daikin air con with the new R32 refrigerant from a company called Bettercool in Bkk that are far cheaper than dept stores. The technician has been trained by Daikin and they will even give you B1,000 each for your junk aircons for the parts.

Thanks Arkady. I was a complete idiot thinking it would work out. I just had everything come at once, new house, daughter starting at an international school, car.. There was very little left in the pot for aircon's.

By trying to make a saving i have been without aircon for 2 months and will end up paying 16k THB more than if i'd just gone with new ones in the first place.