Getting engaged; what will happen next and how to prioritise costs?

[fbf]

I'm getting close to the point of getting engaged to my Thai girlfriend (I live in the UK, she lives... in Thailand). I'm not expecting any definitive answers, but I'd like to know people's experience about how this works.

So this is how I'd normally expect to do it (and btw, I married to a European girl 11 years ago): surprise her with an engagement ring and propose. We tell all our friends and family, change Facebook status, maybe have an informal party at each end.

But! I know that's almost certainly not how it's going to work... and yet, I can't help feeling the urge to surprise her with the ring anyway.

So first of all, about the ring, is platinum ok (plus diamond)? I read a lot about 'Thai gold', but I think platinum is more durable and a more neutral/versatile colour. Her skin is slightly towards the light end of the scale, not white but definitely not dark. She doesn't usually wear rings at the moment, so I don't have much to go on.

I'd hope for the wedding rings to match. Btw, I'd try to buy all rings here in the UK, although that might mean getting the engagement ring resized and buying the wedding rings together after we get married.

Secondly, about the engagement party; I gather there's a traditional/formal affair in Thailand, and if so I think she's likely to expect that. If I "get engaged" (falang style) by giving her the ring and announcing it to all, will her family then be offended that it wasn't done the traditional way? Or is it ok, so long as we then have the traditional party? How long does this party normally take to arrange, because it might require waiting for a subsequent trip to Thailand. So the timescale could be (for example): get engaged in December; engagement party with family in April; wedding, in Thailand, later in the year. Or is that a problem?

About costs... I'm aware there is much debate about sin sod, and for me it's not a case of "should I pay it or not", it's a case of "OMG how do I find the money for engagement ring, wedding, sin sod, lots of flights and the settlement visa". So, any thoughts about prioritising?

It's easy to talk to my girlfriend about anything and almost too easy to talk about marriage (not much chance of a "no" when I pop the question), so I've decided to sacrifice some of the surprise element in favour of not messing it up. For the wedding, she doesn't really want a huge one (not only considering costs). For sin sod, she will be happy if it's the "right" amount, not too much. To be honest she'll accept what she's given, and her parents just want to know that I love her and will take care of her, but I want to do the right thing. I know one of her friends got 200,000 from her Thai groom recently, and she believes falang normally pay more. So, I'd probably go in the 200,000 to 250,000 region, but might need to reduce this if the budget gets squeezed.

For the wedding, maybe I can keep it around the 100,000 mark or a little higher. What about other costs? I've seen mention of baht (literal gold, not currency), so am I expected to give money/gold at the engagement party in addition to the sin sod? And if so, what's the approximate ratio? Or are they the same thing (sin sod at engagement, not the wedding)?

My real pressing question now (sorry it took so long to get to the point): if I splash out £3,000 or even £5,000 on an engagement ring, is it a waste of money? Do Thai girls really need that, or would they rather have a £1,000 ring and a much bigger sin sod? Or smaller for both, and the married household not paying back a massive bank loan for the next 3-5 years!

I need to decide in the coming weeks if I'm going to execute the surprise engagement ring plan in December.

Edited September 29, 2014 by fbf

[longstebe]

Have you met her in person?

[fbf]

Yes. Once in April (we spent Songkran together in Thailand) and once in August (she came to visit for a month).

[NeverSure]

The old saying: "If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it."

Are the girl and family aware that you don't have much money? If not, you'd better clear that up real fast and see if you still have a gf. One way to clear that up and see if you're still welcome is to say you can't afford an engagement party, sin sod or a ring. Test the waters.

Thais love gold. I wouldn't even think about platinum IF I even bought any ring. The engagement ring with diamonds and wedding ring is your tradition.

Just tell them you can't afford anything but an amphur wedding and a gathering at the house, and use your money to get settled in your home country.

Geez you mentioned this putting you and your new wife into debt. Outrageous.

[MJP]

The old saying: "If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it."

Are the girl and family aware that you don't have much money? If not, you'd better clear that up real fast and see if you still have a gf. One way to clear that up and see if you're still welcome is to say you can't afford an engagement party, sin sod or a ring. Test the waters.

Thais love gold. I wouldn't even think about platinum IF I even bought any ring. The engagement ring with diamonds and wedding ring is your tradition.

Just tell them you can't afford anything but an amphur wedding and a gathering at the house, and use your money to get settled in your home country.

Geez you mentioned this putting you and your new wife into debt. Outrageous.

Listen to Uncle NeverSure.

[fbf]

Thanks for the advice NeverSure. I think you're right about testing the water, I may have gone a bit too far anyway with hinting what's possible and need to dampen things down a lot! Usually she's very good about money, but with the prospect of a wedding, I think she will let me spend as much as I want without putting up any resistance!!!

The engagement ring is my tradition indeed, and I admit that it's partly for me as I would like to see her wearing a good one. But I'll have to think more carefully about that, especially if Thais prefer gold - I thought Thai gold was meant to be too soft anyway? I'm not so keen on gold.

I'm interested in any views on what I should do... anyone else here bought/not bought a ring for your Thai bride? Any regrets, or happy with your decision?

Also, if I do decide to go ahead and do something crazy with the wedding, does sin sod happen at the engagement party or at the wedding?

[Patsycat]

If you're going to splash out 5000 quid on an engagement ring, make sure you have her ring size. You wouldn't want it to fall off and be lost.

[Apiwan2]

Yes. Once in April (we spent Songkran together in Thailand) and once in August (she came to visit for a month).

You having a laugh here ?

You've met twice and wanna do looks like 10 large in all.

Mate.

get to know the girl first in her environment. Most importantly get to know her friends and family.

[jacky54]

Do Thai's get engaged and expect rings? I never came across it before

[A. BOOZER]

Jai yen yen!

[rhythmworx]

has she got tattoos of stars down her arms or legs by any chance?

[Saan]

Don't buy gold for a Thai in the UK. It is the wrong colour and Thais probably won't think it real gold. I think most Thais expect their jewellery to be 22 carat whereas in the west it is usually 9 or 18.

[recycler]

Stop drinking and drugs, you appear to be hallucinating!

Get to know the girl, live together for at least a year and think about it after you got to know her and her background. It's not always what it seems in Thailand certainly not with girls. You can be sure that the year will include many surprises good or bad.

The whole sinsod issue is nonsense, you would be arrested if you sell your kids in the UK and that Thais call it culture doesn't make it good.

About any jewelry, Thai want pure gold only, if the ring is platinum she won't even realize the value and it may end up as a toy ring for her kids.

[steven100]

You've met her twice ...... and your getting engaged ....

This has got to be a troll post .....

Anyway .... here's your priorities :

Ring .... ? est 200k baht

House .... 2.0m baht

Gold ..... 150k baht

Car .... 1.0m baht

Wedding .... 500k baht

Dowry .... 1.0m baht

Mama, Papa gold .... 200k baht

Total ..... Baht 5.050 mil

[sometimewoodworker]

Thanks for the advice NeverSure. I think you're right about testing the water, I may have gone a bit too far anyway with hinting what's possible and need to dampen things down a lot! Usually she's very good about money, but with the prospect of a wedding, I think she will let me spend as much as I want without putting up any resistance!!!

The engagement ring is my tradition indeed, and I admit that it's partly for me as I would like to see her wearing a good one. But I'll have to think more carefully about that, especially if Thais prefer gold - I thought Thai gold was meant to be too soft anyway? I'm not so keen on gold.

I'm interested in any views on what I should do... anyone else here bought/not bought a ring for your Thai bride? Any regrets, or happy with your decision?

Also, if I do decide to go ahead and do something crazy with the wedding, does sin sod happen at the engagement party or at the wedding?

Gold is as hard or soft as you want 18k is plenty hard. My wife's engagement ring with a diamond was 1/5 of the Sin sod, the sin sod was not given back, it is quite common to return the sinsod, but it was a bit more than the party cost, paid for by mum in law.

Gold is in general respected, other metals, not very much.

In general Thais don't have the immage of jewellery as emotionaly important. It is looked on a nice way to keep your excess cash, so if you spend a lot of money on something that can't be easly turned into cash it won't be looked on as important but more a waste of money.

UK jewellery costs 3 to 5 times the cost of the same item bought in Thailand (when you can find it.)

[jacky54]

I think he has one thing right, and it's not nonsense to most Thais, the sin sot. 200k is a regular amount in our village paid by Thais. Of course whether it's borrowed or they get some or all back is another matter. I know we borrowed some gold to top up the 4 baht, face as usual.

[stgrhe]

I wouldn't say a platinum ring is wrong but that depend very much on the lady, her education and social status. However, as platinum is a very hard metal. resizing isn't easy although doable. When I bought the engagement ring for my GF I asked about the ring size beforehand, and she was ok with that. Also, if you chose to travel from the UK to Thailand, by e.g. Emirates, and thus use Dubai as a transit hub, you would save a bundle buying the ring at Dubai Airport. They have hugh selections there. Furthermore, if you chose a ring made out of gold, chose 18 carat, not 20 or higher. The reason for that is that the stone sits solid in an 18 carat ring whereas in softer gold she risks loosing it. Explain this to your GF and buy Thai gold for the wedding.

Good luck to you both!

[BKK And Maui]

My first post: I am 60, my newly Thai wife is 47. I live on Maui, Hawaii but have been to Thailand 4 times (over 100 days) in 10 months. We will live both places soon on K1 VISA.

- Bought rings at incredible shop at MBK. No gold. Beautiful platinum setting and all documents.

- Paid 100,000 sin sod (dowry) to family.

- Small family event in Tha Bo, west of Nong Khai.

- Rented her dress and my "attire".

- Simple Event. Her Father read some Thai material. Got her family involved.

* Downsize Everything. If you make it about money .... they make it about money.

* Be Very Respectful of Process and Thai traditions.

* Show Love To Her To Gain Family's Respect

I'm older than you, but it has been a great experience!

[Ian Curtis]

I understood that this 'dowry' stuff only applies if the lady has never been previously married? If she has been married before then surely her family have already been paid the 'sin sod'. Could be that I'm wrong but, I don't believe a Thai man would fork out a dowry for someone who has been previously married?

Please forgive me for asking but, has your 'intended' been married before?

[mikiea]

ahhhh...... to be young,foolish & poor again, it bring back memories. none of which i am fond of. buy a 2 pound hammer, smack your left foot as hard as you can without breaking any bones,blood and smashed meat squirting everywhere is good. after the last smack quickly look in a mirror. the look on your face is the way you will feel after 6 months of marriage. oh good luck :-)

[rotary]

Yes. Once in April (we spent Songkran together in Thailand) and once in August (she came to visit for a month).

Do you think you might be jumping a bit fast.........how well do you know someone with that limited amount of contact. Emails and Skype can only show so much, not like really being with someone.

[Grindting]

Dont do anything, you don't even know the girl. It will all end in tears

She said 'farang usually pay more'... Oh god!

RUN!

If you ignore this advice, please factor in longer term costs into your debt, 'house and land for family', dads whiskey addiction, mothers gambling addiction, motorbike for brother in law, pickup truck payments for sister-in laws husband, start up costs for brothers new business venture, costs for sisters operation, veterinarian bill for sick buffalo, etc etc.

[Greg Nixon]

No surprises or you may be surprised and not in a good way. Thai women seem to favour a gold necklace and secondarily a gold ring and gold earrings or a gold bracelet but will settle for a necklace and ring. Diamonds are not in vogue and 95% of Thai ladies do not have diamonds. Thai ladies do not like costume jewellery but do like gold. They do not care if you wear jewellery like a gold ring.

An inexpensive wedding consists of a temple wedding - family can come or not. Then if you wish to make it legal you go to the local municipal office and 15 minutes later you are legal. Many Thais will marry without the legal marriage.

I did all of this but am not legally married. A good marriage is between two people who are committed to each other. If love, sex, cohabitation, mutual support and children do not bind you then a piece of paper certainly will NOT.

If the woman has been involved before or agrees to it, you need not pay her family an up front dowry, however be prepared to help them out on a regular basis ( instalment method).

My wife had been married previously and I payed nothing but I am kind to the family on a fairly regular basis as my finances permit.

I let my Thai wife guide me in our priorities. 1. Gold jewellery - stay within a modest budget

2. Meeting the parents - this did not go well as the father was angry. My wife wanted me and we ignored the father's wishes. They had previously been given a dowry by her first husband.

3. A temple wedding - my wife's mother and my wife's 8 year old daughter attended. It was lovely and simple and very inexpensive - 400 Baht to 1000 Baht.

4. My wife and I would both like a legal wedding but right now that is not possible.

A good woman will marry you without all the trappings but if they have dreamt of a big party, wedding dress and all the things that go with it, it may be difficult to do without it. That is why there should be no surprises. A good marriage includes lots of communication. Start now. Show her everything you have and what she can expect. She should show you everything she has and what she wants in her future - children? education? living location ? Will she work, etc. These are the really important things. A wedding is a show. A good marriage is forever.

[mikiea]

My first post: I am 60, my newly Thai wife is 47. I live on Maui, Hawaii but have been to Thailand 4 times (over 100 days) in 10 months. We will live both places soon on K1 VISA.

- Bought rings at incredible shop at MBK. No gold. Beautiful platinum setting and all documents.

- Paid 100,000 sin sod (dowry) to family.

- Small family event in Tha Bo, west of Nong Khai.

- Rented her dress and my "attire".

- Simple Event. Her Father read some Thai material. Got her family involved.

* Downsize Everything. If you make it about money .... they make it about money.

* Be Very Respectful of Process and Thai traditions.

* Show Love To Her To Gain Family's Respect

I'm older than you, but it has been a great experience!

[mikiea]

hmmm..... lust made you loose your mind also? could not control your self? its ok if you are a older & wiser fart. keep that sweet sh#t to your self :-)

[mikiea]

Have you met her in person?

[mikiea]

huh.... did she truly say she beleives falang should pay more? dude ya missed your cue, you should of said <deleted>? the begining of the end started there at that exact time she said that.

[Grauwulf]

Sorry to butt in. I have lived quite happily in Thailand for some time with my partner, we have a normal life work house etc I am still relatively young at 44. BUT I remember a lot of the good advice many expats gave me when I first got here. And yup I still made mistakes. The one that sticks in my mind is this " If you start or base your relationship on money that's what it will always be-a financial arrangement". If you are lucky enough to find a girl who likes you for you and accepts that it's not about money then your halfway there to a loving committed relationship where you both work as a team to build a life, as people do all over the world. When I first came here I got involved as many of us do with a bar girl, I was warned, I didn't listen and it became all too apparent it was about the money 7 weeks later and a lot less cash I wised up ( to many told you so's!!!!).

Later I met a girl who had a normal job just like anyone else and time did its work.

I'm not being negative or trying to generalise the Thai girl and money debate but please be careful you don't really know this girl.

Where does she work or should I say where does she say she works? And please don't tell me you've been sending her money every month.

As I said not being negative but tread very carefully as all the advice I was given was all so true!

Good luck

[Toscano]

Splashing out buying an expensive engagement ring is a waste of money . Thais prefer gold 24ct bought in Thailand , never mind a diamond stone .

Gold can be pawned or more easily sold for money . Don't get sucked into paying a huge bride price and remember foreign husbands are principally a walking ATM machine . A friend of mine paid 1,000,000bt to build a house , his wife to be was already married twice and had a son by each . Her ex husband

wouldn't let him live with her on the island where she lived . In about 5yrs she had spent all his money . I warned him at his wedding party that he was

being taken to the cleaners and he didn't believe me . Thailand has an abundance of pretty girls and women , but their pricipal reason for wanting to

marry you is money and scurity , you have to be prepared to say NO and mean it , ride out the tantrum that might follow . My beautiful loving wife says go back to your country , I get my boxes from the store room , start packing my bags , within half an hour she's saying sorry please don't go .

[Toscano]

Having reread you posts here , I think you are very naive , you shouldn't be thinking of marriage at all .

You married a European girl 11yrs ago and that didn't work out . It takes 2 to tango , so my guess is that you were at least in part to blame .

Marriage to Thais is very different to marriage to western women . Bar girls know how to make love western style , with kissing , regular respectable girlsand women are not used to that , even though they may make an effort to begin with . In my opinion you need to have spent a lot more time in Thailand

before thinking to marry a Thai girl . I should cool it if I were you !!!