NGO questions if the two Myanmar suspects are scapegoats

[bunglebag]

Translations I've received from my wife from Thai people commenting on the CSI LA page and other Thai forums is that the village chief is very very well connected.. He has a long history with certain ministers in gov, Suthep and others.. it goes deep. Getting that family to resubmit or get tested for DNA will be very hard. They are being protected. There are also rumors that McAnna has allot more knowledge of what really happened as well.

The only way we will ever find out the truth is if the British gov demands to get involved with DNA.

It sounds doubtful that UK will be able to push hard enough without causing a major diplomatic relations problem because surely Thailand will resist very hard if what you say is true. But they should warn UK citizens not to travel to Thailand in that case.

If it comes about that legal justice is not / cannot be carried out then I sincerely hope justice of another form happens one day to the people that really deserve it.

Always seemed like McAnna knew a lot about it. I hope that he is still healthy, and I hope he has talked to the UK authorities or he has let his friend down IMO.

Edited October 4, 2014 by bunglebag

[bruceybonus]

more than the hose used imo

[connda]

It seems a little too convenient imho.

[Scott]

It's important to remember that rape is an act of violence and anger more than a sexual act. This case is an obvious example. This was done by some very, very violent people.

I certainly hope the real perpetrators are caught and dealt with. They are not people that we want lose in the general population.

[wilcopops]

Unless there is some outside verification from an unbiased and respected authority,this is going to leave an indelible stain on the Thai reputation

[Puwa]

The accused need a good human rights lawyer. Unfortunately, the top lawyer in southern Thailand was "disappeared" 10 years ago while pursuing charges against police of framing 3 youth and torturing them to confess.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somchai_Neelapaijit

[Credo]

This has to be a setup. It's simply not possible for Thaivisa CSI to be this wrong!

Whatever happened, I hope the guilty parties are removed are caught.

[bunglebag]

Those who have the fortitude to look at the pictures of the bodies on the nasty Death and Reality website will notice that Hannah was murdered in almost ritualistic fashion. The murdererers must have held her down to rape her and then continued to hold her down while one of them picked up the hoe and savagely struck at her face repeatedly until he had obliterated her features completely. There are no visible marks elsewhere on her violated body. He must have been very angry with her for some reason and wanted to wipe out her pretty face. Probably the first or second deep wound into her brain had already killed her and silenced her as a witness. So why keep on chopping repeatedly? This seems to be more than the action of a rapist who wants to eliminate a witness. They commonly strangle their victims which provides the added advantage that the victim can't cry out while she is dying in agony. I wonder why the killer was so angry. There is no suggestion that the Burmese had been harassing Hannah or trying to pick her up and then felt slighted. They were lowly illegal workers with no money and limited linguistic skills. They are also very slightly build men. I wonder if one of them holding her down would have been enough for the other to rape and murder her.

David's body was found some distance from Hannah's and in one of the pictures it looks as if it was found in the water. He had deep duts in his face but the pattern is completely different. There was no attempt to obliterate his features. It is possible they chopped at his head to make sure he was dead when he was already unconscious and perhaps tried to drown him before or after the horrible chopping. But it seems likely the intention was just to kill him to silence him as a witness and/ or get him out of the way first, without repeated angy chopping after he was obviously dead. The struggle with David seems to have taken place both on the beach and in the water's edge, unless they dragged him unconscious to the water to try to drown him. Given that David was a big, strong young man, it must have been very a very demanding struggle for these two weedy looking Burmese. If the fight with David and his murder which must have taken all the two men's strength took place first, what was Hannah doing? Was she waiting in terror for the two men to finish murdering her friend and start raping and murdering her? Why didn't she run as fast as she could to get help for David? There are no signs of injury to her body suggesting that she was incapable of running. If David was taken unawares and knocked unconscious first, it would still have taken both men to drag him to the water to try to drown him. If Hannah was raped and murdered first, which clearly also required at least the full strength of both these men, what was David doing at the time.

How many men were there?

More than 2 you would think yes. 5 or 6 different wounds to David alone, and there were inital reports of his hands looking like he had been fighting with them

To be honest it feels like the only realistic chance of the true events of that night coming out is if Sean does know what happened and tells someone, ideally the UK authorities. If that happened whether they acted upon it is another matter, and whether the general public ever got to know would be unlikely probably

[bruceybonus]

Those who have the fortitude to look at the pictures of the bodies on the nasty Death and Reality website will notice that Hannah was murdered in almost ritualistic fashion. The murdererers must have held her down to rape her and then continued to hold her down while one of them picked up the hoe and savagely struck at her face repeatedly until he had obliterated her features completely. There are no visible marks elsewhere on her violated body. He must have been very angry with her for some reason and wanted to wipe out her pretty face. Probably the first or second deep wound into her brain had already killed her and silenced her as a witness. So why keep on chopping repeatedly? This seems to be more than the action of a rapist who wants to eliminate a witness. They commonly strangle their victims which provides the added advantage that the victim can't cry out while she is dying in agony. I wonder why the killer was so angry. There is no suggestion that the Burmese had been harassing Hannah or trying to pick her up and then felt slighted. They were lowly illegal workers with no money and limited linguistic skills. They are also very slightly build men. I wonder if one of them holding her down would have been enough for the other to rape and murder her.

David's body was found some distance from Hannah's and in one of the pictures it looks as if it was found in the water. He had deep duts in his face but the pattern is completely different. There was no attempt to obliterate his features. It is possible they chopped at his head to make sure he was dead when he was already unconscious and perhaps tried to drown him before or after the horrible chopping. But it seems likely the intention was just to kill him to silence him as a witness and/ or get him out of the way first, without repeated angy chopping after he was obviously dead. The struggle with David seems to have taken place both on the beach and in the water's edge, unless they dragged him unconscious to the water to try to drown him. Given that David was a big, strong young man, it must have been very a very demanding struggle for these two weedy looking Burmese. If the fight with David and his murder which must have taken all the two men's strength took place first, what was Hannah doing? Was she waiting in terror for the two men to finish murdering her friend and start raping and murdering her? Why didn't she run as fast as she could to get help for David? There are no signs of injury to her body suggesting that she was incapable of running. If David was taken unawares and knocked unconscious first, it would still have taken both men to drag him to the water to try to drown him. If Hannah was raped and murdered first, which clearly also required at least the full strength of both these men, what was David doing at the time.

How many men were there?

More than 2 you would think yes. 5 or 6 different wounds to David alone, and there were inital reports of his hands looking like he had been fighting with them

To be honest it feels like the only realistic chance of the true events of that night coming out is if Sean does know what happened and tells someone, ideally the UK authorities. If that happened whether they acted upon it is another matter, and whether the general public ever got to know would be unlikely probably

Here is some evidence!

[SNGLIFE]

...and so the resolution shall be that the scapegoats did it. The case is closed. A year or so on, the undocumented scapegoats (hopefully) will be released out the back door and sent back home to their families on condition they keep quiet...and THAT will be the end of it.

RIP Lady Justice

[HUAHIN62]

Well done woman, I have been questioning that from the moment it was announced that the murderers were Burmese migrants.

And I want the truth.......this case has affected me a lot.

Not only you but many Thai people online are also sceptical. There is very little justice in this country for the poor. Many poor people was put into jail through the so called "bomb detectors" which the army up to today is refusing to acknowledge was a fraud and on which they spend billions. These devices was used to "detect" drugs and explosives, many people was put in jail based on these faulty detectors results used as evidence in courts. I have seen nothing about their cases being reviewed after the fraud became known. There are also a certain lady that was demoted by the previous government due to her support for these devices (she is supposed to be a scientist), but the army have put her back in her old position.

The only way we will know the truth is if the British government gets involved.

[bunglebag]

It's important to remember that rape is an act of violence and anger more than a sexual act. This case is an obvious example. This was done by some very, very violent people.

I certainly hope the real perpetrators are caught and dealt with. They are not people that we want lose in the general population.

The real perps / puppetmasters should be removed from the gene pool ideally. Getting away with something like this so blatantly will only increase their confidence.

[bruceybonus]

Well done woman, I have been questioning that from the moment it was announced that the murderers were Burmese migrants.

And I want the truth.......this case has affected me a lot.

Not only you but many Thai people online are also sceptical. There is very little justice in this country for the poor. Many poor people was put into jail through the so called "bomb detectors" which the army up to today is refusing to acknowledge was a fraud and on which they spend billions. These devices was used to "detect" drugs and explosives, many people was put in jail based on these faulty detectors results used as evidence in courts. I have seen nothing about their cases being reviewed after the fraud became known. There are also a certain lady that was demoted by the previous government due to her support for these devices (she is supposed to be a scientist), but the army have put her back in her old position.

The only way we will know the truth is if the British government gets involved.

Judging by the ambassador's pathetic weaseling statements, don't hold your breath!

[bruceybonus]

Well done woman, I have been questioning that from the moment it was announced that the murderers were Burmese migrants.

And I want the truth.......this case has affected me a lot.

Not only you but many Thai people online are also sceptical. There is very little justice in this country for the poor. Many poor people was put into jail through the so called "bomb detectors" which the army up to today is refusing to acknowledge was a fraud and on which they spend billions. These devices was used to "detect" drugs and explosives, many people was put in jail based on these faulty detectors results used as evidence in courts. I have seen nothing about their cases being reviewed after the fraud became known. There are also a certain lady that was demoted by the previous government due to her support for these devices (she is supposed to be a scientist), but the army have put her back in her old position.

The only way we will know the truth is if the British government gets involved.

Judging by the ambassador's pathetic weaseling statements, don't hold your breath!

https://twitter.com/KentBKK

[Dogmatix]

Translations I've received from my wife from Thai people commenting on the CSI LA page and other Thai forums is that the village chief is very very well connected.. He has a long history with certain ministers in gov, Suthep and others.. it goes deep. Getting that family to resubmit or get tested for DNA will be very hard. They are being protected. There are also rumors that McAnna has allot more knowledge of what really happened as well.

The only way we will ever find out the truth is if the British gov demands to get involved with DNA.

It sounds doubtful that UK will be able to push hard enough without causing a major diplomatic relations problem because surely Thailand will resist very hard if what you say is true. But they should warn UK citizens not to travel to Thailand in that case.

If it comes about that legal justice is not / cannot be carried out then I sincerely hope justice of another form happens one day to the people that really deserve it.

Always seemed like McAnna knew a lot about it. I hope that he is still healthy, and I hope he has talked to the UK authorities or he has let his friend down IMO.

No worries on that front. The British ambo had just expressed his complete satisfaction with the police investigation. Perhaps the UK taxpayer will also contribute to the reward for the brave BIB on the ground.

[Dogmatix]

Well done woman, I have been questioning that from the moment it was announced that the murderers were Burmese migrants.

And I want the truth.......this case has affected me a lot.

Not only you but many Thai people online are also sceptical. There is very little justice in this country for the poor. Many poor people was put into jail through the so called "bomb detectors" which the army up to today is refusing to acknowledge was a fraud and on which they spend billions. These devices was used to "detect" drugs and explosives, many people was put in jail based on these faulty detectors results used as evidence in courts. I have seen nothing about their cases being reviewed after the fraud became known. There are also a certain lady that was demoted by the previous government due to her support for these devices (she is supposed to be a scientist), but the army have put her back in her old position.

The only way we will know the truth is if the British government gets involved.

Not only did poor Muslims get dragged off by the army to suffer God knows what fate after the plastic dousing rods determined they had been in contact with explosives but several poor conscripts and other people were blown to smithereens moments after a soldier wielding one of the plastic toys had declared the area free from explosions. Double whammy!

[Dogmatix]

Those who have the fortitude to look at the pictures of the bodies on the nasty Death and Reality website will notice that Hannah was murdered in almost ritualistic fashion. The murdererers must have held her down to rape her and then continued to hold her down while one of them picked up the hoe and savagely struck at her face repeatedly until he had obliterated her features completely. There are no visible marks elsewhere on her violated body. He must have been very angry with her for some reason and wanted to wipe out her pretty face. Probably the first or second deep wound into her brain had already killed her and silenced her as a witness. So why keep on chopping repeatedly? This seems to be more than the action of a rapist who wants to eliminate a witness. They commonly strangle their victims which provides the added advantage that the victim can't cry out while she is dying in agony. I wonder why the killer was so angry. There is no suggestion that the Burmese had been harassing Hannah or trying to pick her up and then felt slighted. They were lowly illegal workers with no money and limited linguistic skills. They are also very slightly build men. I wonder if one of them holding her down would have been enough for the other to rape and murder her.

David's body was found some distance from Hannah's and in one of the pictures it looks as if it was found in the water. He had deep duts in his face but the pattern is completely different. There was no attempt to obliterate his features. It is possible they chopped at his head to make sure he was dead when he was already unconscious and perhaps tried to drown him before or after the horrible chopping. But it seems likely the intention was just to kill him to silence him as a witness and/ or get him out of the way first, without repeated angy chopping after he was obviously dead. The struggle with David seems to have taken place both on the beach and in the water's edge, unless they dragged him unconscious to the water to try to drown him. Given that David was a big, strong young man, it must have been very a very demanding struggle for these two weedy looking Burmese. If the fight with David and his murder which must have taken all the two men's strength took place first, what was Hannah doing? Was she waiting in terror for the two men to finish murdering her friend and start raping and murdering her? Why didn't she run as fast as she could to get help for David? There are no signs of injury to her body suggesting that she was incapable of running. If David was taken unawares and knocked unconscious first, it would still have taken both men to drag him to the water to try to drown him. If Hannah was raped and murdered first, which clearly also required at least the full strength of both these men, what was David doing at the time.

How many men were there?

More than 2 you would think yes. 5 or 6 different wounds to David alone, and there were inital reports of his hands looking like he had been fighting with them

To be honest it feels like the only realistic chance of the true events of that night coming out is if Sean does know what happened and tells someone, ideally the UK authorities. If that happened whether they acted upon it is another matter, and whether the general public ever got to know would be unlikely probably

Here is some evidence!

I think you are saying the wounds on David's body are not consistent with the size, weight and shape of a garden hoe. Yes, they look too small and could have been made by a small, broad sharp instrument. Police have mentioned that there was a second murder weapon which they have not identified or found. However, they said it was a blunt instrument. If that is the case, there are likely two more murder weapons in addition to the hoe.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Dogmatix

[jomcondo]

Anybody here that lives on koh Tao?

Give us the word.....it's a very small island.....everyone knows what happened.

[bunglebag]

Anybody here that lives on koh Tao?

Give us the word.....it's a very small island.....everyone knows what happened.

or even a number(s):

1. Mon

2. Warot

3. Warot daddy

4. A N Other relative

5. A N Other

[Artisi]

I am not a detective, and I know next to nothing about police procedures, but if I was in command of this investigation, I would have called the suspects in, given them a cup of tea and a doughnut, and said "Well, your DNA tests are due back in a couple of hours, anything you want to tell me?" If the DNA tests came back positive, then I would have used the hackneyed old phrase, "your nicked, my old sons!". If it was negative, then I would have waved them goodbye.

Either way, I don't think I would have wasted my time trying to get a confession, as I would have looked rather foolish squeezing one out of the boys, only to have the DNA test reveal that it was not them; OR, if the DNA tests were positive, then a confession might have been nice, but the DNA would have been the compelling evidence needed for a conviction.

Or am I missing something?

What you're missing is "This is Thailand".

[rtco]

Every bit of this whole fiasco stinks. The Thai Police and Justice system is corrupt. It has taken so long to arrest these guys because the DNA samples and all other evidence had to be manipulated first. Get a grip Thailand. The whole world is looking at you and saying <deleted> is going on. As for the lame excuse of a British Government and its local Ambassador ... well this is just politics gone mad. He had to say what he said otherwise his position in Thailand would have been untenable ... just looking after his own position.

If I were the family of the two victims I would ask for my own DNA tests and a review of all the evidence by an independent lawyer ... they have rights although I can understand that they need to grieve first. Only then can they be satisfied, or otherwise, that justice has been done. They shouldn't just sit by and see this condemnation of potentially two innocent people happen.

Well done Ms Pornpen Kongkachornkiat of the CCF for putting up this challenge ... let's hope that others will get behind her to add support to this fiasco, charade, farce, sham, fake, travesty, mockery, disgrace and any other suitable words you can think of.

[richusa]

The police got paid, and yes the Burmese are taking the fall.

[bunuel]

Critical thinking is extinct in LOS.

uote name="alfalfa19" post="8480064" timestamp="1412353937"]

Clearly these guys were tortured into confessing. Now, everybody is supposed to live happily ever after like in a fairy tale???? And now the tourists will flock back to the island? And I read somewhere else that Prayuth is going to give the cops a reward? For first-rate torture techniques I reckon. The people that buy this whole debacle with its "happy ending" must have failed critical thinking in college, if they even ever attended college.

[lildragon]

Translations I've received from my wife from Thai people commenting on the CSI LA page and other Thai forums is that the village chief is very very well connected.. He has a long history with certain ministers in gov, Suthep and others.. it goes deep. Getting that family to resubmit or get tested for DNA will be very hard. They are being protected. There are also rumors that McAnna has allot more knowledge of what really happened as well.

The only way we will ever find out the truth is if the British gov demands to get involved with DNA.

It sounds doubtful that UK will be able to push hard enough without causing a major diplomatic relations problem because surely Thailand will resist very hard if what you say is true. But they should warn UK citizens not to travel to Thailand in that case.

If it comes about that legal justice is not / cannot be carried out then I sincerely hope justice of another form happens one day to the people that really deserve it.

Always seemed like McAnna knew a lot about it. I hope that he is still healthy, and I hope he has talked to the UK authorities or he has let his friend down IMO.

Kanman Sutheps step son owns large swaths of Samui does he not? I'm not saying it's related but it is interesting.

I wish I could read the csi la page. Lots of Thais know this is all total BS. That family refusing to give DNA samples And the cops just accepting that. It's wouldn't surprise me If this head mans connections went all the way To The top.

Edited October 4, 2014 by lildragon

[bunglebag]

If UK doesn't put out a travel warning on the back of this then they are doing a diservice to their citizens

[lincsong]

I would be willing to pitch in to get these Burmese decent representation. Even if they are still found guilty, it would ease my conscience, and my suspicion that they have been scapegoated. I would also like to be sure that there is not a brutal murderer walking the streets of Koh Tao still.

[bongoz]

Considering personal involvement of the PM congratulating the Koh Tao police force with their excellent work I do not give a lot of changes for any other outcome then that the Burmese are FKD.

Yes, but if you tell the world then he might change his mind.

Could you ever imagine the PM having such a huge LOSS OF FACE, and that's to the whole world!

it's all signed, sealed and delivered unless these poor Burmese receive the best legal representation available.

[HUAHIN62]

Anybody here that lives on koh Tao?

Give us the word.....it's a very small island.....everyone knows what happened.

We have friends down there and from the begining they said there was a foreigner and Thai's involved. The story go like this. Mr. A is bi sexual and have friend Mr. B which is gay. They come for a romantic holiday but mr. A meets girl C and fall in love. Mr. B is very angry and hire mr. D and E to do help him kill A and C. Maybe it explains only two semen samples, maybe it explains the extreme violence of the crime and maybe it explains the fair hair that was reported to have been in the girls hand (which has now been swept under the carpet called Thai justice). But thats the rumor true or not.

Edited October 4, 2014 by HUAHIN62

[bongoz]

Good, absolutely no doubt should remain regarding the victims killers....

This must remain high profile and fully open and transparent...

For Thailand it means doing it to regain international face, respect and trust.

For the victims families it will mean full closure.

for tourism itll mean people will feel safer.

Its a win win for Thailand, tourism and families

The only reason NOT to make it so is if they have something they wish to hide.

"For Thailand it means doing it to regain international face, respect and trust."

No Thailand doesn't even think it has lost face!

Respect and trust - Thailand will NEVER have them!

[ChiangMaiThai]

If we are to believe the police for just one moment, what is the explanation for failing to collect / match their DNA from the very beginning?!?!? The suspects worked at the bar the victims were at just before being killed. Obviously that's the first place you go. And somehow the police failed to collect the DNA or their labs are so shi77y that the wrong info came back?

Or maybe their DNA was cleared and evidence was pointing to someone else - a suspect that would have been unacceptable for the police.

Best case scenario - Complete and utter incompetence by the Thai police (the suspects worked at the bar! The police were doing blanket DNA testing! How are these guys missed?!? Has any journalist asked this question?)

Worst case scenario - Police have framed innocent and powerless people to protect someone higher up