Alan Henning 'killed by Islamic State'

[Chicog]

Lets have a look at your bullet points 7x7

But I will accept your word if you say you believe that

• the majority of British Muslims are as peace loving as the next, non Muslim, person;
• that the majority of British Muslims do not support, indeed abhor, IS and their activities and aims;
• that those who speak out publicly against IS and other Islamist extremists speak for the majority of British Muslims;
• that the majority of British Muslims are not jihadists wishing to establish a worldwide caliphate;
• that the majority of British Muslims do not wish to impose Sharia law in the UK nor turn the UK into a Muslim state.

A lot of claims in your bullet points, and nothing to back them up. The reason that there is nothing to back them up is that the information on the points you raised is not known. Not by you, me or anyone else. Therefore what you are presenting is nothing more than your OPINION. Of course, if you personally have carried out scientific studies to back up your claims, feel free to present your findings to the rest of us.

Perhaps you would like to give us your opinion on this video

How would you describe these people ?

Are they " Extremist " Muslims ?

Are they " Moderate " Muslims ?

Or perhaps a group of Muslims in between that no-one really wants to talk about.

You should have a category for "other", but I doubt the replies would linger here too long.

[transam]

Lets have a look at your bullet points 7x7

But I will accept your word if you say you believe that

• the majority of British Muslims are as peace loving as the next, non Muslim, person;
• that the majority of British Muslims do not support, indeed abhor, IS and their activities and aims;
• that those who speak out publicly against IS and other Islamist extremists speak for the majority of British Muslims;
• that the majority of British Muslims are not jihadists wishing to establish a worldwide caliphate;
• that the majority of British Muslims do not wish to impose Sharia law in the UK nor turn the UK into a Muslim state.

A lot of claims in your bullet points, and nothing to back them up. The reason that there is nothing to back them up is that the information on the points you raised is not known. Not by you, me or anyone else. Therefore what you are presenting is nothing more than your OPINION. Of course, if you personally have carried out scientific studies to back up your claims, feel free to present your findings to the rest of us.

I, and others, have provided many, many links to and quotes from Muslim spokespeople, such as the MCB, Imams and ordinary Muslims with which to back up my claims.

Including this video;

a campaign which is spreading worldwide among young Muslims:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri21Mx9RDBw

Do you, as others have done, dismiss what they are saying as lies?

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to show that the majority of British Muslims do support, in anyway shape or form, IS or any other extremist group; all the evidence shows the opposite.

Of course, if you think that they do, or anyone else who thinks that they do, has carried out scientific studies to back up your claims, feel free to present your findings to the rest of us!

Perhaps you would like to give us your opinion on this video

How would you describe these people ?

Are they " Extremist " Muslims ?

Are they " Moderate " Muslims ?

Or perhaps a group of Muslims in between that no-one really wants to talk about.

I have never denied that there are extremist Muslim groups in the UK; neither have I ever supported what they have to say.

I will say, though, that like everyone in the UK, they have the right to protest; as long as they stay within the law. That is, and should be, a right enjoyed by all, from Islamists to the EDL.

This right is one of the fundamental freedoms we enjoy in the UK, one I personally cherish; even when I completely disagree with what the protesters have to say.

So you think it OK for dodgy Muslims to spout "Kill the infidel non believers" on UK streets...?

[Chicog]

I have never denied that there are extremist Muslim groups in the UK; neither have I ever supported what they have to say.

I will say, though, that like everyone in the UK, they have the right to protest; as long as they stay within the law. That is, and should be, a right enjoyed by all, from Islamists to the EDL.

This right is one of the fundamental freedoms we enjoy in the UK, one I personally cherish; even when I completely disagree with what the protesters have to say.

I can see where you are coming from, but it's allowing that hatred to fester that turns into things like 7/7.

So it is not completely black and white.

It's why laws against extremism have been introduced over the years.

Middle England housewives protesting over gay bishops are hardly likely to demand the beheading of the ones with whom they disagree.

[JockPieandBeans]

Sorry, you have not provided many many links backing up your words.

Selected individuals, who claim to speak for the Muslim majority just does not pass muster.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to show that the majority of British Muslims do support, in anyway shape or form, IS or any other extremist group; all the evidence shows the opposite.

Likewise, I have merely pointed out that there is no evidence to prove the opposite.

I have never denied that there are extremist Muslim groups in the UK; neither have I ever supported what they have to say.

I will say, though, that like everyone in the UK, they have the right to protest; as long as they stay within the law. That is, and should be, a right enjoyed by all, from Islamists to the EDL.

This right is one of the fundamental freedoms we enjoy in the UK, one I personally cherish; even when I completely disagree with what the protesters have to say.

Just like I have never denied that there are decent Muslims in the UK. the fact of the matter is, there are extremist Muslims at work in the UK. How many, nobody knows. Just 1 is 1 too many. What I will say, from experience, is that no extremists / terrorists or whatever other name that you want to give them, can operate without local community support.

We can agree to disagree on whether protest marches are a fundamental right. My opinion, and only my opinion, that regardless who or what is marching. If it invokes fear, prejudice or racist undertones then it should be immediately quashed. However, out of the 1000's of videos of Muslim marches that are posted on youtube. I wonder how many of them are illegal ?

https://www.gov.uk/protests-and-marches-letting-the-police-know

Fundamental freedoms in the UK, your having a laugh.

Edited to add.

Go and take your fundamental freedom to Slough, Reading and a whole raft of other towns and protest against IS in Syria and iraq and see how long you last

Edited October 9, 2014 by JockPieandBeans

[7by7]

It seems that some posters believe freedoms should apply only to those with whom they agree!

Although JockPieandBeans seems to think we don't have any freedoms in the UK!

If anyone, from a fundamental Muslim to the EDL and anywhere in between, breaks the law then they should be, and often are, arrested and brought to justice. I have already posted news articles showing this to be true, and the recent arrests of Islamist extremists prove it too.

However, it is very often the case that these arrests do not take place at the demonstration itself; instead the police gather intelligence at the demonstration to act on later; for sound, operational reasons.

[JockPieandBeans]

It seems that some posters believe freedoms should apply only to those with whom they agree!

If that was aimed at me, what part of " regardless who or what is marching. If it invokes fear, prejudice or racist undertones then it should be immediately quashed " do you not understand ?

Although JockPieandBeans seems to think we don't have any freedoms in the UK!

I told you to take your freedom to Slough, Reading or a raft of other towns and protest over the IS in Syria and Iraq and see how long you last.

However, it is very often the case that these arrests do not take place at the demonstration itself; instead the police gather intelligence at the demonstration to act on later; for sound, operational reasons.

Yes, that is often the case. However, when people are demonstrating in the street, with placards, that contain words along the lines of " Kill all Infidels " references to " beheadings, waving terrorists flags and all the other nice phrases that are used. they should be arrested on the spot.

It would also be nothing to do with the police being told to use kid gloves so as not to inflame racial tensions.

[happydude303]

I would just like to say, what right do they have to protest in my country , did there fore fathers give there life for this right , no ! Protest for better wages yes , protest for equal rights , yes protest to about peace yes ,unfair discrimination yes but to protest in my country about killing us and so on is not f:;;ing on full stop ......that's how most of us feel over, here apart from the people who came in and are not true English , and by that I mean born and bread and have fore fathers here , kind of like nome of us will ever be taken for Thai people even if we live here all our life's and have a Thai passport . big fat full stop ................ Oh and just Image if we lived in Islam, do you think we would be accepted and have a right to protest lmao

Edited October 10, 2014 by happydude303

[jacky54]

No in their name no, but in the name of Islam, Allah and the Prophet.

[7by7]

It seems that some posters believe freedoms should apply only to those with whom they agree!

If that was aimed at me, what part of " regardless who or what is marching. If it invokes fear, prejudice or racist undertones then it should be immediately quashed " do you not understand ?

Why do you think it was aimed at you?

I understood what you said perfectly, thank you.

Although JockPieandBeans seems to think we don't have any freedoms in the UK!

I told you to take your freedom to Slough, Reading or a raft of other towns and protest over the IS in Syria and Iraq and see how long you last.

It was your saying "Fundamental freedoms in the UK, your having a laugh" which prompted that comment from me.

As for you other comment; the EDL, among others, regularly protest in such areas; against IS, Islamist extremism and even the wearing of burkas.

However, it is very often the case that these arrests do not take place at the demonstration itself; instead the police gather intelligence at the demonstration to act on later; for sound, operational reasons.

Yes, that is often the case. However, when people are demonstrating in the street, with placards, that contain words along the lines of " Kill all Infidels " references to " beheadings, waving terrorists flags and all the other nice phrases that are used. they should be arrested on the spot.

It would also be nothing to do with the police being told to use kid gloves so as not to inflame racial tensions.

The same way the police don't arrest EDL demonstrators carrying placards advocating violence against Muslims, you mean?

The same kid gloves they use when dealing with similarly provocative demonstrations by fascist groups such as EDL?

[7by7]

It is very obvious that most (all?) of those posters in this and other topics about British Muslims do not live in the UK and glean their information from the right wing press, fascist websites and similar.

Channel 5 in the UK is currently showing a series entitled No Foreigners Here - 100% British about life in Cheetham Hill, Greater Manchester.

I hope it is available in Thailand; I hope you will all watch it. It will show you the truth about modern Britain, the truth that people of all faiths, cultures, races live happily alongside each other. The truth that the extremists, whether they be Islamist or white supremacist or any other 'ist,' are very much in the minority.

Some of you wont believe it and call it liberal, apologist propaganda, of course; almost certainly those who say that wont even watch it!

[jacky54]

The same way the police don't arrest EDL demonstrators carrying placards advocating violence against Muslims, you mean?

The same kid gloves they use when dealing with similarly provocative demonstrations by fascist groups such as EDL?

Any pics of the EDL placards calling for killing or beheading? They are against Islamic violence so that in your book makes them 'fascists' does it, what does islamists calling for death and beheadings make them them? oh yes silly me that makes them Muslims.

Edited October 10, 2014 by jacky54

[Chicog]

It seems that some posters believe freedoms should apply only to those with whom they agree!

I just think people should not be free to advocate violence. So does the law, thankfully.

I just wish they'd apply it more often instead of treating rancid muslim extremists with kid gloves.

Say what you like about the US, but at least they put that one-eyed, hook-handed cretin where he belongs, and I hope he dies there.

[jacky54]

Some of you wont believe it and call it liberal, apologist propaganda, of course; almost certainly those who say that wont even watch it!

Can't speak for others here but personally I would not watch any rubbish posted by you and barely bother to even read your apologetic liberal nonsense which similar attitudes has helped Jihadists to be tolerated and grow in the UK. Well done, I'm sure they will be very grateful when the time come.

[7by7]

Some of you wont believe it and call it liberal, apologist propaganda, of course; almost certainly those who say that wont even watch it!

Can't speak for others here but personally I would not watch any rubbish posted by you and barely bother to even read your apologetic liberal nonsense which similar attitudes has helped Jihadists to be tolerated and grow in the UK. Well done, I'm sure they will be very grateful when the time come.

Thank you for proving my point so much better than I ever could.

BTW, for someone who "barely bothers to even read" what I post, you do have a habit of leaping in with a response immediately after I've posted it!

Edited October 10, 2014 by 7by7

[jacky54]

No evidence of the EDL calling for death then, thanks for proving my point!

[7by7]

I thought you didn't read my posts?

You certainly fail to understand them, or do you deliberately twist my words?

[Ulysses G.]

The same way the police don't arrest EDL demonstrators carrying placards advocating violence against Muslims, you mean?

The same kid gloves they use when dealing with similarly provocative demonstrations by fascist groups such as EDL?

Any pics of the EDL placards calling for killing or beheading? They are against Islamic violence so that in your book makes them 'fascists' does it, what does islamists calling for death and beheadings make them them? oh yes silly me that makes them Muslims.

If there is any truth to it at all, they probably called for violence against Muslim TERRORISTS and he is spinning it into "Muslims" That would be typical of his posts.

[7by7]

They may not carry explicit placards; but the EDL are violent.

Are the victims in these videos terrorists?

Is eating chicken in a Muslim owned fast food restaurant a terrorist activity?

Is peacefully demonstrating a terrorist activity?

If EDL members are the peace-loving, law abiding individuals you claim; why do most of them cover their faces when attending their rallies?

Edit:

One video wouldn't play, so deleted it. There are many more on you tube.

Edited October 10, 2014 by 7by7

[transam]

Hey 7x7,

was sent a video yesterday of Muslims tying the hands of Muslims behind their backs, told to kneel and they were all shot in the back of the head, one by one.......Whats your thoughts on that.?

[7by7]

Not seen the video, but if it is as you describe then it is an appalling act.

When will you people get it into your tiny minds that supporting the rights of the majority of peace loving Muslims is not the same as supporting the atrocities committed by terrorists and others!

[Ulysses G.]

If EDL members are the peace-loving, law abiding individuals you claim; why do most of them cover their faces when attending their rallies?

Where did I "claim" any such thing? You are making things up again - apparently including your claim that the EDL carry placards "advocating violence against Muslims."

[jacky54]

There is no proof at all that the EDL were involved in the first clip and even if they were how does it make them 'fascists' a couple of stones thrown at a window? near Narborough road and where is the 'attack' on a muslim woman in the second one? just a scuffle, wishful thinking. That film is laughably biased just interviews with moaning bag wearing Muslims and none with the protesters. According to you anyone who protests against Islam is a 'fascist' then

Edited October 10, 2014 by jacky54

[jacky54]

Not seen the video, but if it is as you describe then it is an appalling act.

When will you people get it into your tiny minds that supporting the rights of the majority of peace loving Muslims is not the same as supporting the atrocities committed by terrorists and others!

when will you get it into your tiny mind that making excuses for Islamic terror has nothing to do with the rights of the majority and does nothing to combat it. Islamic terror has one cause and that is ISALM, no matter how many billions there are not actually out there doing the killing this is still the truth. Wailing on about the majority, that nobody has blamed anyway is just making apologies for the real cause of the problem.

[7by7]

UlyssesG; yet again you can't refute the facts, so resort to pathetic tactics like claiming you said no such thing about a remark which was not addressed to you specifically!

Or is your ego so large that you think all remarks are specifically addressed to you?

Jack54; yet again, you ignore facts you don't like.

The EDL are a violent, fascist organisation whose thuggish members repeatedly turn to violence. There are reports from all sections of the press to show this; except the fascist websites that support their views, of course.

As usual, you resort to pathetic insults, 'bag wearing women' for example, when you cannot refute the facts.

[7by7]

Not seen the video, but if it is as you describe then it is an appalling act.

When will you people get it into your tiny minds that supporting the rights of the majority of peace loving Muslims is not the same as supporting the atrocities committed by terrorists and others!

when will you get it into your tiny mind that making excuses for Islamic terror has nothing to do with the rights of the majority and does nothing to combat it. Islamic terror has one cause and that is ISALM, no matter how many billions there are not actually out there doing the killing this is still the truth. Wailing on about the majority, that nobody has blamed anyway is just making apologies for the real cause of the problem.

Yet again I am accused of 'making excuses for Islamic terror.'

I have never done so, and whenever I have challenged such accusations my accusers have been completely unable to back up their accusations.

You say that you do not blame the majority of Muslims, but also say, and have said many times before, that their religion is to blame, that the jihadists are Muslim believers and so all who also follow that religion must therefore support the terrorists and jihadists.

Despite being shown many times links to and quotes from Muslim leaders, Imams and ordinary Muslims condemning the jihadists and saying that they have perverted Islam and that their atrocities and other activities are un Islamic.

But then, you always dismiss such as lies, spin or diversions.

As you do all facts which prove your hatred of and prejudice against all Muslims to be irrational.

(UlyssesG, when I say 'you' in the above I am addressing Jacky54, not UlyssesG! So don't quote me and then say you never said it!)

Edited October 10, 2014 by 7by7

[Ulysses G.]

UlyssesG; yet again you can't refute the facts, so resort to pathetic tactics like claiming you said no such thing about a remark which was not addressed to you specifically!

I just did refute your claim that the EDL carry placards "advocating violence against Muslims.", but it certainly was not a "fact".

You posted directly after me and you used the word "you". You have done the same thing when you directly quoted me. Every time you get caught in an obvious fib, you try to claim that you were addressing someone else. No one is buying it.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[H1w4yR1da]

Are the victims in these videos terrorists?

Press TV? Are you serious? Press TV is Iranian government-owned.

What next? Videos on Iran hanging gays?

How low can you get?

[7by7]

,snip>

Every time you get caught in an obvious fib, you try to claim that you were addressing someone else. No one is buying it.

You are certainly not; but then I never expected you too!

You never 'buy' anything which proves your prejudices to be the ignorance which they are. You simply say that they are lies.

Edited to include quote to show to whom I am talking in this post.

Edited October 10, 2014 by 7by7

[7by7]

Are the victims in these videos terrorists?

Press TV? Are you serious? Press TV is Iranian government-owned.

What next? Videos on Iran hanging gays?

How low can you get?

One video from them. the other wasn't.

There is plenty of evidence of EDL violence in the British press, too.

[Ulysses G.]

(UlyssesG, when I say 'you' in the above I am addressing Jacky54, not UlyssesG! So don't quote me and then say you never said it!)

You quoted him and then replied to him. That is how it is done.

You never 'buy' anything which proves your prejudices to be the ignorance which they are.

You mean like your dishonest claim that the EDL carry placards "advocating violence against Muslims, that you could not back up?

Edited October 10, 2014 by Ulysses G.