Rights group arranges lawyers for Myanmar men

[SICHONSTEVE]

<removed BKK Post Link>

This article says that the accused have admitted to taking Hanna's phone and other valuables to be destroyed behind the house where they lived.

I seem to remember in very early statements by the police that they said the motive didn't seem to be theft as nothing had been taken from the crime scene.

Anyone have a link to that report?

Clearly states in the link you provide that Pol Gen Somyot said the phone belonged to one of the two victims. While it does also state the suspects say they took her phone ... obviously what they thought was her phone if reported correctly. Somyot also said it is a key piece of evidence. So clearly it will not be the same phone the police showed and collected the first day.

Bottom line is might have been confusion regarding this but the bottom line is nothing here to obsess about. They clearly have never claimed it was the same phone they collected and showed the first days and really bordering on crazy to suggest this or to believe such a scenario.

Why would they "think it was her phone" would they not remember who they removed it from?

You say "So clearly it will not be the same phone the police showed and collected the first day" - There's nothing clear about it.

This is the whole problem, what you think it clear others CLEARLY do not.

How you can be so clear on everything I really don't know. If everything was CLEAR there wouldn't be thousands of posts on this whole subject.

As for your bottom line, many of us are "obsessing" as you put it because we want to be SURE not just clear.

Forget the phone boys!!

Whose semen inside his poor unfortunate woman is what counts - the fact that they found 2 DNA traces should be enough to clear the AC bar owners son and implicate the two Burmese as prime suspects.

[SjaakNL2013]

I am glad to see that some people start help those Burmese guys but..........

If there to much pressure from outside, lawyers who go ask things,point police on the rights those Burmese have... the chance they survive the prison they now in get smaller by the hour.

Remember Thai's don't like to admit they make a mistake, lose face, and the RTP and Government is to deep in it now.

[draftvader]

<removed BKK Post Link>

This article says that the accused have admitted to taking Hanna's phone and other valuables to be destroyed behind the house where they lived.

I seem to remember in very early statements by the police that they said the motive didn't seem to be theft as nothing had been taken from the crime scene.

Anyone have a link to that report?

Clearly states in the link you provide that Pol Gen Somyot said the phone belonged to one of the two victims. While it does also state the suspects say they took her phone ... obviously what they thought was her phone if reported correctly. Somyot also said it is a key piece of evidence. So clearly it will not be the same phone the police showed and collected the first day.

Bottom line is might have been confusion regarding this but the bottom line is nothing here to obsess about. They clearly have never claimed it was the same phone they collected and showed the first days and really bordering on crazy to suggest this or to believe such a scenario.

Why would they "think it was her phone" would they not remember who they removed it from?

You say "So clearly it will not be the same phone the police showed and collected the first day" - There's nothing clear about it.

This is the whole problem, what you think it clear others CLEARLY do not.

How you can be so clear on everything I really don't know. If everything was CLEAR there wouldn't be thousands of posts on this whole subject.

As for your bottom line, many of us are "obsessing" as you put it because we want to be SURE not just clear.

Forget the phone boys!!

Whose semen inside his poor unfortunate woman is what counts - the fact that they found 2 DNA traces should be enough to clear the AC bar owners son and implicate the two Burmese as prime suspects.

What audit trail is there for these samples? It wouldn't be difficult to make these samples match.

Sample A & B were taken at the scene.

Sample C & D were taken from the accused.

Sample C & D are divided to create sample's A & B again as those samples have magically gone missing....except for the ones in the UK that were boundless taken by the coroner as we do document our overseas deceased on repatriation.

[Prbkk]

Do you guys understand that we can't link to the Bangkok Post here? If you want the link to where they said it was Hannah's phone you'll need to ask by PM.

I won't directly quote here as I don't think I'm allowed but to paraphrase the 3rd October article:

The Police Gen Somyot said the investigators had found Miss Witheridge's phone outside the suspect's living place on Thursday evening.

Whether or not he said this or was an error by the newspaper is unknown but it's what was published. Previously all we had was that it belonged to one of the suspects.

I hope this satisfies you.

I am not seeing quotes of what the police said. But do recall that in Thai the did not name it being her phone but spoke in general terms of it belonging to one of the victims ... this accurate translation was reported many places and I shared these links when the Facebook Forensic Team started this distraction.

The BP articles clearly, unequivocally state that the police say the 'phone recovered belonged to the female victim. Why do you persist wit your obfuscation?

[Soutpeel]

Its fine to talk about the UK authorities and what they are capable or not in getting involved in an independant inquiry.

Its not going to happen, if David and Hanna had been from the States, i am certain that the 'special arrangement' Thailand has with them, the FBI would have been down there from day one !

On suspects the FBI have enough investigating to do on US soil involving mass shootings...

The FBI can can only get involved in the Thai case if they are invited to do so, they have no jurisdiction in this case irrespective of what you may believe about "special arrangements"

Please don't turn this thread into another about "waving the flag please"

[heyexile]

This is video of the phone found in Win's apartment.

http://news.bugaboo.tv/watch/146128/%E0%B8%9C%E0%B8%9A.%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%A3.%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%AD%E0%B9%81%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B5%E0%B8%86%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%97%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%87%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%8A%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A4%E0%B8%A9%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%B0%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%95%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%B2.html

Is it? The date for bugaboo vid is Fri 3rd Oct 08.02 am. Police said they found the phone at Wyn`s on Thurs night 2nd Oct.

My i/net connection is iffy so can`t play whole clip. Why is phone not in a plastic evidence bag? Myth of fingerprints?

If you can pull a still of most relevant shot and post, it would be much appreciated.

[lingyai]

Meanwhile, local officials in Surat Thani said yesterday that tourists were returning to Koh Tao resort island in droves after the alleged culprits in the murders of British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were arrested.

Thawisak Inphrom, the chief of Koh Pha-ngan district, of which Koh Tao is part, said that tourism on Koh Tao has become "busy again" following the arrests.

"Tourists now have become more confident about safety on the island, and they are confident the authorities can provide safety for them," he said.

Surat Thani Governor Chatpong Chatrapoot said the arrest of the suspects had helped restore confidence among prospective tourists to Koh Tao.

Not one bit of regret offered to the families of the victims, but hey the tourists are coming back so all is good in la la land so lets get back to scamming...

Sick bstards. I just hope/wish that they get all they deserve.

jb1

What do they deserve, oh please tell.

[heyexile]

This is video of the phone found in Win's apartment.

http://news.bugaboo.tv/watch/146128/%E0%B8%9C%E0%B8%9A.%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%A3.%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%AD%E0%B9%81%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B5%E0%B8%86%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%97%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%87%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%8A%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A4%E0%B8%A9%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%B0%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%95%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%B2.html

Is it? The date for bugaboo vid is Fri 3rd Oct 08.02 am. Police said they found the phone at Wyn`s on Thurs night 2nd Oct.

My i/net connection is iffy so can`t play whole clip. Why is phone not in a plastic evidence bag? Myth of fingerprints?

If you can pull a still of most relevant shot and post, it would be much appreciated.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Do you guys understand that we can't link to the Bangkok Post here? If you want the link to where they said it was Hannah's phone you'll need to ask by PM.

I won't directly quote here as I don't think I'm allowed but to paraphrase the 3rd October article:

The Police Gen Somyot said the investigators had found Miss Witheridge's phone outside the suspect's living place on Thursday evening.

Whether or not he said this or was an error by the newspaper is unknown but it's what was published. Previously all we had was that it belonged to one of the suspects.

I hope this satisfies you.

I am not seeing quotes of what the police said. But do recall that in Thai the did not name it being her phone but spoke in general terms of it belonging to one of the victims ... this accurate translation was reported many places and I shared these links when the Facebook Forensic Team started this distraction.

The BP articles clearly, unequivocally state that the police say the 'phone recovered belonged to the female victim. Why do you persist wit your obfuscation?

In that case, the BP reporters got it wrong then!!!

[SMSinBangkok]

Visitors to off Islands such as Koh Tao need to be advised of a code of behaviour that will protect them ; when such islands employ impoverished single men as labour . No allowance is being made for primordial instincts .

They should also be advised of the fact that Thailand is a xenophobic country with a certain degree of anti-sentiment towards foreigners. Be careful you don't ignite the underlying savage rage seen sometimes when Thais have felt offended by a foreigner, e.g. the Bangkok Taxi-driver who killed the American businessman with a samurai-sword after an argument over the fare (and many other examples).

I wonder what Hannah might have said to awaken this rage. Maybe the the killers initially were trying hitting on her, and in trying to shake them off, unaware of the consequences, offended them in a way that let loose the rage.

[Sueemily]

As regards the DNA who is saying there is a match......the RTP or the lab in Singapore ,if it's the RTP,then we only have their word for it.

To me their word doesn't count for much,if it's the lab in Singapore then that's different.

The UK can and hopefully will get DNA from the victims so they too will have a DNA profile,doubtful that they will have access to the alleged attackers DNA though.

The families are going through so much ,we are always lead to believe that the 'police' no matter what country will do the right thing,we are all too naive.

[EASYDOGG]

I will attempt to answer some questions that appeared above:

• Why were some suspects allowed to refuse DNA sampling? Human rights.
• Why did the phone get turned in and then appear in the bushes behind a migrant worker's residence, and why would such a high value theft item be discarded so close to the residence? It was planted by the police to add to the 'look we have evidence' pile.
• Why was the FBI uninvited to participate and the DNA sent to a country where Thailand has connections? Thailand would have seriously lost face with major nations seeing how unprofessional they were and for the real truth to come out. They clearly didn't want that.
• Why were the current suspects cleared, then uncleared of suspicion? They were taking in for DNA, the police fabricated evidence and sent of samples for analysis, and released until they needed to be arrested and shown to be the real killers.
• Will DNA collected from the bodies in England match your samples? They probably won't answer that, but I'd like the lawyers to collect their DNA and send it to England for a comparison.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Amazing that some of the evidence and forensic experts here are having difficulty navigating a simple online petition page.

Not really, they have drained the batteries in their brains in trying to find ways to clear the 'Burma 3'!!!

Ah, and another poster who has a vested interest in tourism. Pity I know Sichon well - it's a hick undeveloped town, with an excellent dentist on the main strip, and a lovely beach, but the trade relies on tourism. So what do you do, then SS? Run a guest house, a restaurant, or fishing trips?

At the moment we disagree who murdered the two victims - me because the RTP have a history of using foreign scapegoats to cover up a murder and protect the powerful, and this investigation result was just too convenient.

You are correct that it is on the coast - but it is far from a tourist town. Khanom (30 Kms away) is way more touristy but this cannot be described as a tourist town either.

It is not so undeveloped now, as the amount of building work going on around here proves.

I am nothing to do with the tourist industry BTW as my wife and I are private school owners in Sichon so I think that your theory on my background is ever so slightly flawed!!!

What has the history of the police got to do with this case? They seem nailed on as being the guilty party to me, this is despite the incompetent part played in this farcical investigation by the RTP.

I simply do not believe that the police could possibly get away with fabricating the DNA evidence. It just could not happen in this day and age!!

Good to see that the spelling of your Christian name is the right way!!

Edited October 5, 2014 by SICHONSTEVE

[Anthony5]

You want to claim that a hoe doesn't make deep cuts on ones body ?

Casual visitors to Thailand may not realise that what is referred to here as a hoe-jorb in Thai bears no resemblance to the tool called a hoe in England, a light instrument uzed for light weeding. the thai hoe, jorb, is excellent for digging as you use gravity toforce that sharp rectangular metal into the soil. Only a pyscho could use it as a weapon on a human so awful would the injuries be. One blow to the back of the head of someone sitting or lying down could easily render them unconscious. Which makes all the talk of the size of the attackers irrelevant. Where is Sean btw?

Only a pyscho? Not a horny youth? Which does require a leap of motive, and it still doesn't explain the cuts on David's body.

So again, regardless from the fact that you related comments to me which were made by another poster, do you claim that a hoe like it is pictured in the evidence will not make deep cuts to the body that is hit with it ?

Edited October 5, 2014 by Anthony5

[EASYDOGG]

Anyone who believes the Thai police is EXTREMELY stupid. "Oh, the DNA evidence, it mathces!!", they cry.

That's BS. Has ANYONE actually seen the DNA tests? Of course not, all we have is a statement from the Thai cops we're meant to believe that says there's a match. They probably didn't even bother to test it. Why would they?

And these lawyers, they won't be allowed proper access. The accused will be given some 'appointed' lawyer who will probably be paid not to ask too many questions.

So you don't think that the defence team will ask to be shown the DNA evidence and believe their word on this!!!

Yeh right!!

What defence team? You mean the corrupt one that's foisted upon the two defendants, that are being paid to not do their jobs properly?

It doesn't matter who the defence team is or where it comes from - I think that this is quite relevant to the case and might just come out in the court.

Anyway, all you knights in shining armour are going to pay for a top notch defence for these 2 framed boys, aren't you??

All of you that have donated 'to the cause' might look a little foolish if there is unquestionable evidence that they did it.

Who cares about looking foolish? I am not Asian. I won't lose face. We want the truth, justice. If an independent investigation shows these guys did it the case it closed. Until that time the fight goes on.

[Yann55]

The last sentence of this article is obscene. I'm not blaming the journalist him(her)self, because his(her) statement is obviously accurate but it shows what these islanders are really like. Sorry if I sound angry, it's because I am angry.

Like it or not the locals of Koh Tao are somehow collectively responsible for this disaster, because they ALL accept and support a totally corrupt system which plagues every single island in this country, all in the name of sheer profit. In this system the locals do not in effect have to abide by the law, because they own the law.

In this system, the locals hire massive amounts of illegal workers who are obscenely underpaid and exploited in every possible way. That some of these guys would end up losing their screws and behaving like animals is totally unjustifiable of course, but the context is explosive, and the locals are responsible for that, not the migrants.

The locals are not to blame. Say there was a murder in Disneyland or Pat Pong, do you expect everyone working there to find new employment? That's ridiculous.

You obviously didn't understand my point, but then why would you ?

[SICHONSTEVE]

What fight??

Please don't tell me that you are fighting to clear two likely murdering rapists!!!

Remember the 'free George Davis' campaign???

Edited October 5, 2014 by SICHONSTEVE

[stephen terry]

Visitors to off Islands such as Koh Tao need to be advised of a code of behaviour that will protect them ; when such islands employ impoverished single men as labour . No allowance is being made for primordial instincts .

They should also be advised of the fact that Thailand is a xenophobic country with a certain degree of anti-sentiment towards foreigners. Be careful you don't ignite the underlying savage rage seen sometimes when Thais have felt offended by a foreigner, e.g. the Bangkok Taxi-driver who killed the American businessman with a samurai-sword after an argument over the fare (and many other examples).

I wonder what Hannah might have said to awaken this rage. Maybe the the killers initially were trying hitting on her, and in trying to shake them off, unaware of the consequences, offended them in a way that let loose the rage.

Agree. So if I understand it correctly, the Burmese boys admitted they were horny, and something changed that into rage. Which means there had to be communication before the attack - a piss-off statement? But by now both the victims would have been aware of the hoe. Not something to ignore?

The more I read about the boys motive, the more I don't believe they changed into psychos at the moment of confrontation. If they had said that their motive was to teach a lesson, it could be more believable.

Now I'm signing off, as I've exhausted this discussion topic, made my points, and await the inevitable conviction. Maybe diplomatic moves behind the scenes will see engender social change. But I doubt it in my lifetime.

[Artisi]

<removed BKK Post Link>

This article says that the accused have admitted to taking Hanna's phone and other valuables to be destroyed behind the house where they lived.

I seem to remember in very early statements by the police that they said the motive didn't seem to be theft as nothing had been taken from the crime scene.

Anyone have a link to that report?

Clearly states in the link you provide that Pol Gen Somyot said the phone belonged to one of the two victims. While it does also state the suspects say they took her phone ... obviously what they thought was her phone if reported correctly. Somyot also said it is a key piece of evidence. So clearly it will not be the same phone the police showed and collected the first day.

Bottom line is might have been confusion regarding this but the bottom line is nothing here to obsess about. They clearly have never claimed it was the same phone they collected and showed the first days and really bordering on crazy to suggest this or to believe such a scenario.

Why would they "think it was her phone" would they not remember who they removed it from?

You say "So clearly it will not be the same phone the police showed and collected the first day" - There's nothing clear about it.

This is the whole problem, what you think it clear others CLEARLY do not.

How you can be so clear on everything I really don't know. If everything was CLEAR there wouldn't be thousands of posts on this whole subject.

As for your bottom line, many of us are "obsessing" as you put it because we want to be SURE not just clear.

Forget the phone boys!!

Whose semen inside his poor unfortunate woman is what counts - the fact that they found 2 DNA traces should be enough to clear the AC bar owners son and implicate the two Burmese as prime suspects.

That's if it is their semen, easy to say if the test results are not made public. A simple slight-of-hand magician trick, now you see it now you don't.

[Beetlejuice]

Good news, everyone should have legal counsel when jailed guilty or not. However, this will not help those who cannot accept the overwhelming evidence against these two or those who want to believe it was the rich Thai kid (for no other reason than he is rich and Thai) that did it who was taking an exam at school in Bangkok and appeared on security cameras that day in Bangkok.

No doubt the lawyers will be able to collect new DNA samples from their clients and have it compared against the DNA results from the semen taken from the scene originally and sent to both Thai and Singapore labs. But again, doubt this will convince some of admitting their original suspicions were wrong.

While police may have done things wrong, there is no plausible way they could fake the DNA and expect to get away with it unless these two accused disappear from the planet and nobody can ever check their or their family's DNA ever again.

it dosnt matter who did it only that they are caught and theres no doubt... As for the kid your on about theres another son and hes not being mentioned but hes real and was on Island at the time. Its a reasonable request to ask the appropriate questions of all.

The whole point of a separate investigation is to verify DNA matching and such... what is your problem with an independent agent or country doing this pref the UK whos citizens it was that were butchered ?

a match is a match right ? shouldnt matter who does it the results will be the same and ThaIand can then stick two fingers up at everyone and regain their honour .. they have everything to gain by doing so if on the level ............so what is the big deal here ?

You are right and I agree it doesn't matter who did it as long as they are caught. However there is always doubt and why there is a thing called reasonable doubt. But funny you say it doesn't matter who did it but are worrying about the brother who there is absolutely no reasonable reason to believe he was involved.

You are right there is nothing wrong with a separate independent investigation... should be done in every case everywhere. However again being unreasonable as no country is going to have another country get involved in their ongoing criminal case because of internet posters don't want to believe something. An the UK has no authority nor would they attempt to try to have any over a Thai criminal case.

The DNA collected originaly from the scene was not only sent to both Thai and Singapore Labs where results were established. Now they have the two suspects whose DNA matches and whose DNA can be tested again as long as their bodies remain on this planet.

There is just no reasonable reason to believe these two are not guilty and it was a rich Thai person or any logical reason for the police to continue to look for suspects given the evidence against these two and the statements from the 3 of them together that night.

Yes sometimes it is hard to accept things but look at facts not emotion or what you wish. These two and their witness friends all have lawyers going to represent them who can easily get new DNA samples from them and will surely report any misdeeds by police to their suspects.

More power to those signing the petition. All for what makes people feel good but UK authorities are not going to have access to the suspects to pull their DNA as that is not the way it is done or pretty in any country in the world. Nor will the UK ever make such a request and according to the British Ambassador, he doesn't share your doubts.

At last an oasis of sanity amid these threads of crack pot conspiracy theorists and social media avengers. This is exactly what I wanted to say but could never have explained it so well.

These fools can sign and bombard the FCO with as many petitions as they like, but will never be given any credibility and will lead nowhere. The men in custody can have all the legal representation possible that is a good thing and so they should, but the conclusion will be the same, these are not the fall guys and will be found guilty as all the evidence against them suggests and proves.

The Royal Thai police have done an excellent job, they have investigated the said case with a professionalism unparalleled in Thailand`s criminal investigations history, especially taking into account they being up against the odds with the limited funding and resources available to them. I have no doubts that the opinions and attacks against the police by the do gooder and human rights fanatics have no influence on the ways the police are handling this investigation whatsoever, or in other words, the fanatics are shouting at deaf ears, both in regards to the RTP and the FCO and so are only left with platforms such as Thai visa and social networking sites to air their disdain of the Thai police and everything Thai.

Those who are using this case as a means to discredit Thailand and are determined to become involved one way or another and overpower these threads with their twisted views and warped conspiracy theories regarding the police, should go and start a revolution, because trust me on this one, you are only considered as a load of hot air blowing in the wind.

[jonesthebaker]

the mentality of Thais is soooo disturbing at times. Even with the eyes of the world looking on they still attempt to do things the way they normally do.

One big question: why were the sons of the head man allowed to refuse giving dna samples. and what is their given reason.

[martinhp]

Good news, everyone should have legal counsel when jailed guilty or not. However, this will not help those who cannot accept the overwhelming evidence against these two or those who want to believe it was the rich Thai kid (for no other reason than he is rich and Thai) that did it who was taking an exam at school in Bangkok and appeared on security cameras that day in Bangkok.

No doubt the lawyers will be able to collect new DNA samples from their clients and have it compared against the DNA results from the semen taken from the scene originally and sent to both Thai and Singapore labs. But again, doubt this will convince some of admitting their original suspicions were wrong.

While police may have done things wrong, there is no plausible way they could fake the DNA and expect to get away with it unless these two accused disappear from the planet and nobody can ever check their or their family's DNA ever again.

You are right and I think they are involved too but normaly immigrants are lightly to do crime for many reason but rage killing is unlikely done by them and I think one person at least is missing out of the investigation that person able of rage killing

I think that's a Thai in close connection are the one in charge of this and the one with a rage it's very difficult to violent kill some one you don't know and it hardly happens it takes a special type of mind which is not consistent with instantaneous respons of a sexual need but consistent with a Thai who think he is special and are overturned in that believe publicly or even private and this is a motive for rage killing and for Thais it's likely that he will bring friends I think this person want to rape and kill and watch too

he find the tools to kill in some way don't mind the boy to much but the girl

he can control the immigrants and know he can use them in two ways he brings condom for himself and after take the boy out he starts the scenario

He is clever enough to plane some but loose the condom and are properly aware of the time to leave the island and use this knowledge to get out full aware of its not 100%but also use to work with the police and paid them off so the real deal is about cash not about crime investigation this can explaine the lack in the Thai police investigation nobody is this unprofessional in any police force any where but if you know the most why investigate

The lost condom containes the truth but official it is with no DNA but it will have some DNA but this is retirement with a bang for severel police officers and all condoms comes out of the pack with no DNA

In my experience this is close to what is going on but to prove this not easy and the emmigrants are guilty so case closed

And the media here are not free so I think someone got away with murder and he will do again if nothing change

[Tubby]

Good news, everyone should have legal counsel when jailed guilty or not. However, this will not help those who cannot accept the overwhelming evidence against these two or those who want to believe it was the rich Thai kid (for no other reason than he is rich and Thai) that did it who was taking an exam at school in Bangkok and appeared on security cameras that day in Bangkok.

No doubt the lawyers will be able to collect new DNA samples from their clients and have it compared against the DNA results from the semen taken from the scene originally and sent to both Thai and Singapore labs. But again, doubt this will convince some of admitting their original suspicions were wrong.

While police may have done things wrong, there is no plausible way they could fake the DNA and expect to get away with it unless these two accused disappear from the planet and nobody can ever check their or their family's DNA ever again.

it dosnt matter who did it only that they are caught and theres no doubt... As for the kid your on about theres another son and hes not being mentioned but hes real and was on Island at the time. Its a reasonable request to ask the appropriate questions of all.

The whole point of a separate investigation is to verify DNA matching and such... what is your problem with an independent agent or country doing this pref the UK whos citizens it was that were butchered ?

a match is a match right ? shouldnt matter who does it the results will be the same and ThaIand can then stick two fingers up at everyone and regain their honour .. they have everything to gain by doing so if on the level ............so what is the big deal here ?

You are right and I agree it doesn't matter who did it as long as they are caught. However there is always doubt and why there is a thing called reasonable doubt. But funny you say it doesn't matter who did it but are worrying about the brother who there is absolutely no reasonable reason to believe he was involved.

You are right there is nothing wrong with a separate independent investigation... should be done in every case everywhere. However again being unreasonable as no country is going to have another country get involved in their ongoing criminal case because of internet posters don't want to believe something. An the UK has no authority nor would they attempt to try to have any over a Thai criminal case.

The DNA collected originaly from the scene was not only sent to both Thai and Singapore Labs where results were established. Now they have the two suspects whose DNA matches and whose DNA can be tested again as long as their bodies remain on this planet.

There is just no reasonable reason to believe these two are not guilty and it was a rich Thai person or any logical reason for the police to continue to look for suspects given the evidence against these two and the statements from the 3 of them together that night.

Yes sometimes it is hard to accept things but look at facts not emotion or what you wish. These two and their witness friends all have lawyers going to represent them who can easily get new DNA samples from them and will surely report any misdeeds by police to their suspects.

More power to those signing the petition. All for what makes people feel good but UK authorities are not going to have access to the suspects to pull their DNA as that is not the way it is done or pretty in any country in the world. Nor will the UK ever make such a request and according to the British Ambassador, he doesn't share your doubts.

At last an oasis of sanity amid these threads of crack pot conspiracy theorists and social media avengers. This is exactly what I wanted to say but could never have explained it so well.

These fools can sign and bombard the FCO with as many petitions as they like, but will never be given any credibility and will lead nowhere. The men in custody can have all the legal representation possible that is a good thing and so they should, but the conclusion will be the same, these are not the fall guys and will be found guilty as all the evidence against them suggests and proves.

The Royal Thai police have done an excellent job, they have investigated the said case with a professionalism unparalleled in Thailand`s criminal investigations history, especially taking into account they being up against the odds with the limited funding and resources available to them. I have no doubts that the opinions and attacks against the police by the do gooder and human rights fanatics have no influence on the ways the police are handling this investigation whatsoever, or in other words, the fanatics are shouting at deaf ears, both in regards to the RTP and the FCO and so are only left with platforms such as Thai visa and social networking sites to air their disdain of the Thai police and everything Thai.

Those who are using this case as a means to discredit Thailand and are determined to become involved one way or another and overpower these threads with their twisted views and warped conspiracy theories regarding the police, should go and start a revolution, because trust me on this one, you are only considered as a load of hot air blowing in the wind.

What utter crap to support these police scum and write posts like this. Its so blatantly obvious is a stitch up. Are you from the UK? no prob not. We want justice. this is not justice just insulting to the families

[Anthony5]

the mentality of Thais is soooo disturbing at times. Even with the eyes of the world looking on they still attempt to do things the way they normally do.

One big question: why were the sons of the head man allowed to refuse giving dna samples. and what is their given reason.

Because abyone, unless indicted by a court, has the right to refuse DNA taken.

[cookee68]

Good news, everyone should have legal counsel when jailed guilty or not. However, this will not help those who cannot accept the overwhelming evidence against these two or those who want to believe it was the rich Thai kid (for no other reason than he is rich and Thai) that did it who was taking an exam at school in Bangkok and appeared on security cameras that day in Bangkok.

No doubt the lawyers will be able to collect new DNA samples from their clients and have it compared against the DNA results from the semen taken from the scene originally and sent to both Thai and Singapore labs. But again, doubt this will convince some of admitting their original suspicions were wrong.

While police may have done things wrong, there is no plausible way they could fake the DNA and expect to get away with it unless these two accused disappear from the planet and nobody can ever check their or their family's DNA ever again.

What exactly is the "overwhelming evidence" you keep referring to? I think most people have very little faith in anything the BIB say especially after their lamentable performance in this case and we only know what they say about the DNA.They seem to be mostly relying on the "confessions" which are not evidence.

Again based on what is being reported ...

There friend who was with them right up until the crime will be a witness against them.

Witnesses have put them around the scene at the time of the incident as well as video.

They didn't come forward despite weeks of the publicly stating they were looking for those singing/playing guitar and in at least one of the videos.

A phone of one of the victims was found at their place. (not the phone Facebook forensics keep showing that was collected and displayed by police in the first days of the investigation)

They confessed

They reenacted in front of hundreds of people.

And the big kicker -- their DNA matches the semen on the victim.

And to add ...

The Semen DNA collected well before these two identities were known was also sent to Singapore. So, at least two labs have typed the DNA. Now we have two suspects who match that DNA. Two suspects unless who disappear from the face of the earth (along with their family) will be able to be checked again by their lawyers, NGO and others who want to prove their innocence down the road. (something the police know)

I FOR ONE AGREE WITH YOU 100%. THEY ARE GUILTY

[Artisi]

Why would they "think it was her phone" would they not remember who they removed it from?

You say "So clearly it will not be the same phone the police showed and collected the first day" - There's nothing clear about it.

This is the whole problem, what you think it clear others CLEARLY do not.

How you can be so clear on everything I really don't know. If everything was CLEAR there wouldn't be thousands of posts on this whole subject.

As for your bottom line, many of us are "obsessing" as you put it because we want to be SURE not just clear.

Forget the phone boys!!

Whose semen inside his poor unfortunate woman is what counts - the fact that they found 2 DNA traces should be enough to clear the AC bar owners son and implicate the two Burmese as prime suspects.

What audit trail is there for these samples? It wouldn't be difficult to make these samples match.

Sample A & B were taken at the scene.

Sample C & D were taken from the accused.

Sample C & D are divided to create sample's A & B again as those samples have magically gone missing....except for the ones in the UK that were boundless taken by the coroner as we do document our overseas deceased on repatriation.

That's the secret to the puzzle, should be clear uncontaminated DNA of the rapist's which can be compared to a simple saliva sample of the Burmese guys - that would be all telling if the BIB were to allow, which they should condone in the interest of proving their water-tight, unchallenged and possibly fudged case.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Artisi

[SMSinBangkok]

Good news, everyone should have legal counsel when jailed guilty or not. However, this will not help those who cannot accept the overwhelming evidence against these two or those who want to believe it was the rich Thai kid (for no other reason than he is rich and Thai) that did it who was taking an exam at school in Bangkok and appeared on security cameras that day in Bangkok.

No doubt the lawyers will be able to collect new DNA samples from their clients and have it compared against the DNA results from the semen taken from the scene originally and sent to both Thai and Singapore labs. But again, doubt this will convince some of admitting their original suspicions were wrong.

While police may have done things wrong, there is no plausible way they could fake the DNA and expect to get away with it unless these two accused disappear from the planet and nobody can ever check their or their family's DNA ever again.

it dosnt matter who did it only that they are caught and theres no doubt... As for the kid your on about theres another son and hes not being mentioned but hes real and was on Island at the time. Its a reasonable request to ask the appropriate questions of all.

The whole point of a separate investigation is to verify DNA matching and such... what is your problem with an independent agent or country doing this pref the UK whos citizens it was that were butchered ?

a match is a match right ? shouldnt matter who does it the results will be the same and ThaIand can then stick two fingers up at everyone and regain their honour .. they have everything to gain by doing so if on the level ............so what is the big deal here ?

You are right and I agree it doesn't matter who did it as long as they are caught. However there is always doubt and why there is a thing called reasonable doubt. But funny you say it doesn't matter who did it but are worrying about the brother who there is absolutely no reasonable reason to believe he was involved.

You are right there is nothing wrong with a separate independent investigation... should be done in every case everywhere. However again being unreasonable as no country is going to have another country get involved in their ongoing criminal case because of internet posters don't want to believe something. An the UK has no authority nor would they attempt to try to have any over a Thai criminal case.

The DNA collected originaly from the scene was not only sent to both Thai and Singapore Labs where results were established. Now they have the two suspects whose DNA matches and whose DNA can be tested again as long as their bodies remain on this planet.

There is just no reasonable reason to believe these two are not guilty and it was a rich Thai person or any logical reason for the police to continue to look for suspects given the evidence against these two and the statements from the 3 of them together that night.

Yes sometimes it is hard to accept things but look at facts not emotion or what you wish. These two and their witness friends all have lawyers going to represent them who can easily get new DNA samples from them and will surely report any misdeeds by police to their suspects.

More power to those signing the petition. All for what makes people feel good but UK authorities are not going to have access to the suspects to pull their DNA as that is not the way it is done or pretty in any country in the world. Nor will the UK ever make such a request and according to the British Ambassador, he doesn't share your doubts.

At last an oasis of sanity amid these threads of crack pot conspiracy theorists and social media avengers. This is exactly what I wanted to say but could never have explained it so well.

These fools can sign and bombard the FCO with as many petitions as they like, but will never be given any credibility and will lead nowhere. The men in custody can have all the legal representation possible that is a good thing and so they should, but the conclusion will be the same, these are not the fall guys and will be found guilty as all the evidence against them suggests and proves.

The Royal Thai police have done an excellent job, they have investigated the said case with a professionalism unparalleled in Thailand`s criminal investigations history, especially taking into account they being up against the odds with the limited funding and resources available to them. I have no doubts that the opinions and attacks against the police by the do gooder and human rights fanatics have no influence on the ways the police are handling this investigation whatsoever, or in other words, the fanatics are shouting at deaf ears, both in regards to the RTP and the FCO and so are only left with platforms such as Thai visa and social networking sites to air their disdain of the Thai police and everything Thai.

Those who are using this case as a means to discredit Thailand and are determined to become involved one way or another and overpower these threads with their twisted views and warped conspiracy theories regarding the police, should go and start a revolution, because trust me on this one, you are only considered as a load of hot air blowing in the wind.

Jesus Beetlejuice, are you for real?

[Travelman868]

Amazing Thailand. A couple of days after arresting the "alleged murderers" the tourists are back in greater numbers. Amazing Thailand

[michemiche]

Amazing Thailand. A couple of days after arresting the "alleged murderers" the tourists are back in greater numbers. Amazing Thailand

Its full moon party in 3 days in koh pha ngan, so lots of young backpackers begin their migration here.....

[pratsku]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But those that are satisfied with the police version re DNA obviously haven't quite got a grasp on what we are dealing with. Certain family members were involved and McAnna knows what happened that night. This goes further up the food chain than most people think. Powerful families and the countries multi-billion baht tourism industry was at stake. If I'm wrong, then independent testing will be encouraged. Source samples will be re analysed for traces of external contamination and authenticity (the focus should be on whether the source samples are genuine). Then they can identify ethnicity and match it against the suspects. If there is no match the original suspects submit for re testing or in some cases "first" testing. Including Woraphan's family and their associates who were there on the night of the murders.

But my belief is that will probably never happen. They will do everything in their power to stop anyone proving otherwise, you can imagine the repercussions. How could the prime minister and police chiefs stay in power after being proven guilty of fabricating evidence and corruption..

where is sean McAnna hes been very quite.. ??/