Monk slams Bt40 billion in assistance to rice farmers

[NeverSure]

What many farmers also seems to don't understand is that when they burn the fields to clear for planting the next crop is that they destroys the nutrition that is left in the straw and plant parts. If they would plow down the remains it would act as a natural green fertilizer like when you grow Alfalfa to raise the nitrogen level in the soil.

-snip-

I don't know where you got your training but don't try to pull the wool over the eyes of a real farmer. Your "book larnin;" ain't cutting it.

Alfalfa? Since when did rice become a legume as alfalfa is, so it would fix nitrogen in the soil? How can you compare plowing in rice straw or stubble to plowing in alfalfa?

Rice straw and stubble have so little nitrogen that they have a hard time decomposing. They would eventually but it would add few nutrients to the soil.

If you burn it the ash is great fertilizer; probably the best way to turn it into fertilizer despite all of the air pollution. Thai farmers have known what they are doing since long before you came along. Their biggest problem is that they have listened to the experts and depleted their soils by adding chemical fertilizers to push for bigger crops. The chemicals they buy at mafia prices can't justify themselves.

The farmers can't make money because a mafia dictates what they pay for seed and chemicals, and another mafia dictates what they will be paid for the crops. The answer once again is corruption and as long as that is there the skimmers will get the cream.

Edit. I didn't mean to ignore crop rotation. That's something Thais must learn IF they have soil that will grow other crops. Some of the lands are so wet that it would be hard to choose another crop.

Edited October 5, 2014 by NeverSure

[Thai at Heart]

What many farmers also seems to don't understand is that when they burn the fields to clear for planting the next crop is that they destroys the nutrition that is left in the straw and plant parts. If they would plow down the remains it would act as a natural green fertilizer like when you grow Alfalfa to raise the nitrogen level in the soil.

-snip-

I don't know where you got your training but don't try to pull the wool over the eyes of a real farmer. Your "book larnin;" ain't cutting it.

Alfalfa? Since when did rice become a legume as alfalfa is, so it would fix nitrogen in the soil? How can you compare plowing in rice straw or stubble to plowing in alfalfa?

Rice straw and stubble have so little nitrogen that they have a hard time decomposing. They would eventually but it would add few nutrients to the soil.

If you burn it the ash is great fertilizer; probably the best way to turn it into fertilizer despite all of the air pollution. Thai farmers have known what they are doing since long before you came along. Their biggest problem is that they have listened to the experts and depleted their soils by adding chemical fertilizers to push for bigger crops. The chemicals they buy at mafia prices can't justify themselves.

The farmers can't make money because a mafia dictates what they pay for seed and chemicals, and another mafia dictates what they will be paid for the crops. The answer once again is corruption and as long as that is there the skimmers will get the cream.

Edit. I didn't mean to ignore crop rotation. That's something Thais must learn IF they have soil that will grow other crops. Some of the lands are so wet that it would be hard to choose another crop.

This really is the problem

Never ending increases on fertilisers to justify small increases of yield.

If the land was rotated and left fallow occasionally, they would save boat loads on fertilisers and maybe even get a bigger yield from two crops than 3. They are chasing volume with extra fertiliser just to produce stuff for export.

I don't get the rationale for it.

[Robespiere]

There is a big difference between a legitimate subsidy and a populist scheme aimed at winning favor/votes.

It backfired on the Shin regime because they made all those crazy promises - rice payments, pads, cars etc, but failed to deliver on many fronts.

The junta will be darned if they do and darned if they don't. They cannot just ignore the rice farmers, they have to assist them in some way. And for those of you who say the rice growers should just grow another crop, well you are displaying your ignorance of farming practices. It is not that easy.

The level of hypocrisy and self delusion required to author such a post is mind blowing to the normal, everyday, rational individual.

Let me guess....

Unelected Junta = legitimate subsidy

Elected Government = populist scheme

Tell me, wise one, how exactly did it backfire on the Shinawatras if they won 6 successive elections by huge margins?

The Junta is going to pump massive amounts of money into the economy, no doubt doing more economic damage in their first year than the elected governments did in 10 years, in order to do all they can to delay the inevitable uprising leading to their overthrow for as long as possible.

"They cannot just ignore the rice farmers".

How little you know!

Ignoring 80% of the population is exactly what the military rulers have done since 1932, it is exactly this neglect that Thaksin exploited to gain his staggering levels of popularity across the nation and go on to win election after election.

There is an article just published in The Economist that concludes with :

"The result is that 0.1% of Thais own half the nation’s assets, a concentration of wealth that makes America’s mind-bogglingly unequal wealth distribution (where 0.1% of citizens own 22%) look like a socialist dream come true".

How many billions, nay, trillions of baht has the Junta committed to spending since gaining power a mere few months ago?

Yingluck could only be described as a Cheap Charlie in comparison to this bunch of Hooray Harries

[tonbridgebrit]

SUBSIDIES NOW !!!!

Thailand must copy places like South Korea, Japan and the European Union if it is to become a developed nation.

And who gives a ___ whether it's Thaksin or the junta giving the subsidies. As long as they are given, that's the important thing.

[Robespiere]

Horse hockey!

Monks are not supposed to be involved in politics, but this one ignores that rule altogether.

His proposals,um not really his proposals but others proposals, are good long term solutions but...utterly lack the short-term benefits farmers need. In short, he doesn't care about the farmers -- he cares about staying in the spotlight, and continuously making the previous government's programs seem unhealthy (even though 85% of all PT programs are still in action).

I have socks that are more Buddhist than this monk. Anyone remember when he complained to Suthep, glorious Herr Suthep, that he wasn't being given enough attention during the mockumentary they called the 9-5 protests?

And then the originator of the yellow shirts was given a much more harsh sentence than Thaksin, evil demon that he was. So, the monk supports a group that was created by a now-convicted criminal and claims the moral high ground?

If I puked it would be rose petals.

where do you get your information, can you please provide a link to back up your ridiculous claim that 85% of PT programs are still in action, I cannot find one PT policy program that is still running..! certainly not the rice pledging scheme or the one tablet one child scheme.. nor the car first time buyers scheme, so please enlighten us.. Plonker..

At last we agree on something, Bakseeda. I knew if I waited long enough this day would come.

I believe a lot of the anti-junta / pro PTP comments on TVF contain figures and stats that are "fabricated". Not saying the posters are liars, they just handle the truth carelessly.

Based on what?

How closed minded of you.

Fanatics such as yourself are the reason why there is so much polarisation in the world.

Any and all notions, ideas, statements, statistics, facts, polls and opinions put forward that align to your world view are deemed incontrevertible truths .......whilst anything, even slightly at a variance, is immediately dismissed as false or fabricated (dismissals based not on evidence or facts I might add, just on the basis of what you subjectively choose).

Its how a 5 year old debates.

For you, anything anti Junta is lies as is anything pro-democracy (read pro-Thaksin) - it's all black and white, there is no grey.

What a sad and sorry little existence it is, the life you must lead.

You would have been far more at home had you been born a few centuries earlier and had the chance to revel in the dark ages surrounded by fellow flat-earthers.

[halloween]

At last we agree on something, Bakseeda. I knew if I waited long enough this day would come.

I believe a lot of the anti-junta / pro PTP comments on TVF contain figures and stats that are "fabricated". Not saying the posters are liars, they just handle the truth carelessly.

Based on what?

How closed minded of you.

Fanatics such as yourself are the reason why there is so much polarisation in the world.

Any and all notions, ideas, statements, statistics, facts, polls and opinions put forward that align to your world view are deemed incontrevertible truths .......whilst anything, even slightly at a variance, is immediately dismissed as false or fabricated (dismissals based not on evidence or facts I might add, just on the basis of what you subjectively choose).

Its how a 5 year old debates.

For you, anything anti Junta is lies as is anything pro-democracy (read pro-Thaksin) - it's all black and white, there is no grey.

What a sad and sorry little existence it is, the life you must lead.

You would have been far more at home had you been born a few centuries earlier and had the chance to revel in the dark ages surrounded by fellow flat-earthers.

I detect more than a whiff of hypocrisy. MM states that some posters "just handle the truth carelessly." for which you accuse him "For you.....it's all black and white, there is no grey."

This statement after a few minutes before claiming ".....the Shinawatras ..... won 6 successive elections by huge margins?"

I'd rather debate with a 5 yo than a hypocritical liar.

[Balance]

I have been working in an agricultural college for the past 1.5 years and have been a part of a study about crop rotation (rice, soya and corn) during that time the study have been going for about 5 years in total. This was in the North so most farmers can/could get 3 crops a year. One of the things that I learned while working with that study was that more than 60% of the farmers stopped using crop rotation because of the high rice price promised by the last government.

What we also could see was an increased use of fertilizers and pesticides, a general deterioration of the soil quality and a slightly lower yields among the farmers who stopped with crop rotation! So basically the farmers paid more to get less rice per crop.

What many farmers also seems to don't understand is that when they burn the fields to clear for planting the next crop is that they destroys the nutrition that is left in the straw and plant parts. If they would plow down the remains it would act as a natural green fertilizer like when you grow Alfalfa to raise the nitrogen level in the soil.

There are many things that the farmers can learn and be told but as long as the thinking ahead don't goes further than to the money from the next harvest, then there will never be a change.

There are models in Thailand based on organic agriculture set up by European companies that have organized local farmers into a federation that controls the entire agricultural process. More attention should be paid to these models and how they can be replicated. Leaders in these areas need to be educated in the science and economics behind organic agriculture and trained to trained educate farmers. It is a long term process. Some will understand the concepts, but most have to be shown or several years that by slowly eliminate chemical inputs and crop rotation and taking advantage of high value specialty crops and controlling milling and marketing they can make more money. The blood suckers who rip off the rice farmers today need to be retired.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Balance

[mikemac]

At last we agree on something, Bakseeda. I knew if I waited long enough this day would come.

I believe a lot of the anti-junta / pro PTP comments on TVF contain figures and stats that are "fabricated". Not saying the posters are liars, they just handle the truth carelessly.

Based on what?

How closed minded of you.

Fanatics such as yourself are the reason why there is so much polarisation in the world.

Any and all notions, ideas, statements, statistics, facts, polls and opinions put forward that align to your world view are deemed incontrevertible truths .......whilst anything, even slightly at a variance, is immediately dismissed as false or fabricated (dismissals based not on evidence or facts I might add, just on the basis of what you subjectively choose).

Its how a 5 year old debates.

For you, anything anti Junta is lies as is anything pro-democracy (read pro-Thaksin) - it's all black and white, there is no grey.

What a sad and sorry little existence it is, the life you must lead.

You would have been far more at home had you been born a few centuries earlier and had the chance to revel in the dark ages surrounded by fellow flat-earthers.

I detect more than a whiff of hypocrisy. MM states that some posters "just handle the truth carelessly." for which you accuse him "For you.....it's all black and white, there is no grey."

This statement after a few minutes before claiming ".....the Shinawatras ..... won 6 successive elections by huge margins?"

I'd rather debate with a 5 yo than a hypocritical liar.

My son is only 1 year old and already he makes more sense than some of these red flavored "fanatics".

They can flame me and insult me all they like but it is not going to help their argument, or make what the Shin regime did and said go away. That is etched in stone and should be taught to all Thai school children.

And I don't think I have ever said or even thought that it is all black and white. The PTP era was full of "grey" areas as I am sure there will be during the junta's time.

[Strangebrew]

Give a man a fish you feed him one day teach a man to fish you feed for his life. Some how this rings true in this case. You pay farmers for not growing better to teach them to grow other crops. For extra income.

[rickirs]

Many have commented and so I will only relate the latest government handout:

UBON RATCHATHANI, 4 September 2014 (NNT) -- The province of Ubon Ratchathani has extended 1.5 billion baht worth of loans to rubber farmers.

The province has given the nod to more than 15 billion baht worth of loans to rubber tapper cooperatives. The loan is intended for them to buy rubber from farmers and put it into the processing system, in order to help shore up the prices of natural rubber.

According to Governor Serm Chainarong, the province has followed the government's policy to help rubber farmers who have been seriously affected by low prices of rubber. The government has also demanded that the loan program be transparent and free of fraud of any kind.

-- NNT 2014-10-04

http://thainews.prd.go.th/centerweb/newsen/NewsDetail?NT01_NewsID=WNEVN5710040010002

The NCPO has opened the gateway to agricultural subsidies and this may spread to other business sectors as well. Why should not others be as priviledged? Does the NCPO care about politics? If it wants a long-term hold on the Thai people through an oligarchy form of governence, it will have to appease basic needs of the people. Otherwise, it will have to resort to the more extreme dictator form of governance to discard political conviences, and that may bring more trouble than it cares to risk.

Edited October 6, 2014 by metisdead
Supporting link added, please do this whenever citing a news source.

[Thai at Heart]

There is a big difference between a legitimate subsidy and a populist scheme aimed at winning favor/votes.

It backfired on the Shin regime because they made all those crazy promises - rice payments, pads, cars etc, but failed to deliver on many fronts.

The junta will be darned if they do and darned if they don't. They cannot just ignore the rice farmers, they have to assist them in some way. And for those of you who say the rice growers should just grow another crop, well you are displaying your ignorance of farming practices. It is not that easy.

The level of hypocrisy and self delusion required to author such a post is mind blowing to the normal, everyday, rational individual.

Let me guess....

Unelected Junta = legitimate subsidy

Elected Government = populist scheme

Tell me, wise one, how exactly did it backfire on the Shinawatras if they won 6 successive elections by huge margins?

The Junta is going to pump massive amounts of money into the economy, no doubt doing more economic damage in their first year than the elected governments did in 10 years, in order to do all they can to delay the inevitable uprising leading to their overthrow for as long as possible.

"They cannot just ignore the rice farmers".

How little you know!

Ignoring 80% of the population is exactly what the military rulers have done since 1932, it is exactly this neglect that Thaksin exploited to gain his staggering levels of popularity across the nation and go on to win election after election.

There is an article just published in The Economist that concludes with :

"The result is that 0.1% of Thais own half the nations assets, a concentration of wealth that makes Americas mind-bogglingly unequal wealth distribution (where 0.1% of citizens own 22%) look like a socialist dream come true".

How many billions, nay, trillions of baht has the Junta committed to spending since gaining power a mere few months ago?

Yingluck could only be described as a Cheap Charlie in comparison to this bunch of Hooray Harries

And this is the very sad truth.

[bkkgooner]

No interest in listening to a monk who took part in kidnappings, assaults and more than likely murder.

However just handing out cash to a specific group of people just sounds silly to me, can you really imagine your government doing that at home?

[Robespiere]

At last we agree on something, Bakseeda. I knew if I waited long enough this day would come.

I believe a lot of the anti-junta / pro PTP comments on TVF contain figures and stats that are "fabricated". Not saying the posters are liars, they just handle the truth carelessly.

Based on what?

How closed minded of you.

Fanatics such as yourself are the reason why there is so much polarisation in the world.

Any and all notions, ideas, statements, statistics, facts, polls and opinions put forward that align to your world view are deemed incontrevertible truths .......whilst anything, even slightly at a variance, is immediately dismissed as false or fabricated (dismissals based not on evidence or facts I might add, just on the basis of what you subjectively choose).

Its how a 5 year old debates.

For you, anything anti Junta is lies as is anything pro-democracy (read pro-Thaksin) - it's all black and white, there is no grey.

What a sad and sorry little existence it is, the life you must lead.

You would have been far more at home had you been born a few centuries earlier and had the chance to revel in the dark ages surrounded by fellow flat-earthers.

I detect more than a whiff of hypocrisy. MM states that some posters "just handle the truth carelessly." for which you accuse him "For you.....it's all black and white, there is no grey."

This statement after a few minutes before claiming ".....the Shinawatras ..... won 6 successive elections by huge margins?"

I'd rather debate with a 5 yo than a hypocritical liar.

1. 2001 = win

2. 2005 = win

3. 2006 = win

4. 2007 = win

5. 2011 = win

6. 2014 = win

I would suggest in addition to learning how to count, you find the nearest dictionary and look up the definition of hypocrisy, I'm not quite sure you have a grasp on this particular word yet.

[halloween]

At last we agree on something, Bakseeda. I knew if I waited long enough this day would come.

I believe a lot of the anti-junta / pro PTP comments on TVF contain figures and stats that are "fabricated". Not saying the posters are liars, they just handle the truth carelessly.

Based on what?

How closed minded of you.

Fanatics such as yourself are the reason why there is so much polarisation in the world.

Any and all notions, ideas, statements, statistics, facts, polls and opinions put forward that align to your world view are deemed incontrevertible truths .......whilst anything, even slightly at a variance, is immediately dismissed as false or fabricated (dismissals based not on evidence or facts I might add, just on the basis of what you subjectively choose).

Its how a 5 year old debates.

For you, anything anti Junta is lies as is anything pro-democracy (read pro-Thaksin) - it's all black and white, there is no grey.

What a sad and sorry little existence it is, the life you must lead.

You would have been far more at home had you been born a few centuries earlier and had the chance to revel in the dark ages surrounded by fellow flat-earthers.

I detect more than a whiff of hypocrisy. MM states that some posters "just handle the truth carelessly." for which you accuse him "For you.....it's all black and white, there is no grey."

This statement after a few minutes before claiming ".....the Shinawatras ..... won 6 successive elections by huge margins?"

I'd rather debate with a 5 yo than a hypocritical liar.

1. 2001 = win

2. 2005 = win

3. 2006 = win

4. 2007 = win

5. 2011 = win

6. 2014 = win

I would suggest in addition to learning how to count, you find the nearest dictionary and look up the definition of hypocrisy, I'm not quite sure you have a grasp on this particular word yet.

Two of those elections saw Thaksin's party run unopposed, and twice his party has been disbanded for electoral fraud and bribery. The 2011 election could have seen a 3rd party disbanded as there was more than sufficient grounds, and it is assumed the EC allowed them a pass for fear of further political violence, now a common feature of Thaksin's campaigns. But let's not mention that. "For you.....it's all black and white, there is no grey."

[3NUMBAS]

monk negkham found the solution straight into his bank accounts and spend on cars especially Rollers

[whybother]

1. 2001 = win

2. 2005 = win

3. 2006 = win

4. 2007 = win

5. 2011 = win

6. 2014 = win

I would suggest in addition to learning how to count, you find the nearest dictionary and look up the definition of hypocrisy, I'm not quite sure you have a grasp on this particular word yet.

How do you win an election where the is no result?

They didn't actually "win" in 2001 and 2007. They got the most seats, but not a majority, so they needed coalition partners to form government.

[Jip99]

They railroaded Yingluck out of town for populist programs. Now they are doing the same thing. Hypocritical Thais.

No. I think you find that corruption and tinkering with Amnesty bills were greater factors.

[Robespiere]

1. 2001 = win

2. 2005 = win

3. 2006 = win

4. 2007 = win

5. 2011 = win

6. 2014 = win

I would suggest in addition to learning how to count, you find the nearest dictionary and look up the definition of hypocrisy, I'm not quite sure you have a grasp on this particular word yet.

Two of those elections saw Thaksin's party run unopposed, and twice his party has been disbanded for electoral fraud and bribery. The 2011 election could have seen a 3rd party disbanded as there was more than sufficient grounds, and it is assumed the EC allowed them a pass for fear of further political violence, now a common feature of Thaksin's campaigns. But let's not mention that. "For you.....it's all black and white, there is no grey."

You reinforce my point!

Despite all the establishments efforts, Thaksin keeps on winning.

Election boycotts, ridiculous judicial rulings, exaggerated allegations of vote buying, false and exaggerated corruption allegations, strong-arm tactics by the army, bastardising the 1997 constitution, rejigging electoral laws (Abhisit's unelected government), NACC, Constitutioanl Court and Electoral Commission let loose off the chain with an agenda, increased in LM prosecutions, slaughter of 90 citizens in the streets.........and it goes on.

All of this and Thaksin wins and wins and wins.

[tonbridgebrit]

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/thailand-tipped-retake-crown-worlds-045954715.html

"Thailand tipped to retake crown as world's top rice exporter

Two years after losing its place as the world's biggest rice exporter, Thailand is eyeing a return to the top spot as the impact of a bungled subsidy scheme eases and it sells cheaper grain to a grateful global market."


Is it really that bad if Thailand regains it's rightfull place as the world's top rice exporter ??

[Thai at Heart]

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/thailand-tipped-retake-crown-worlds-045954715.html

"Thailand tipped to retake crown as world's top rice exporter

Two years after losing its place as the world's biggest rice exporter, Thailand is eyeing a return to the top spot as the impact of a bungled subsidy scheme eases and it sells cheaper grain to a grateful global market."

Is it really that bad if Thailand regains it's rightfull place as the world's top rice exporter ??

Question should be, "is it that good?"

[whybother]

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/thailand-tipped-retake-crown-worlds-045954715.html

"Thailand tipped to retake crown as world's top rice exporter

Two years after losing its place as the world's biggest rice exporter, Thailand is eyeing a return to the top spot as the impact of a bungled subsidy scheme eases and it sells cheaper grain to a grateful global market."

Is it really that bad if Thailand regains it's rightfull place as the world's top rice exporter ??

They had a heap of rice in storage to get rid of.

It's bad now because of drought. The farmers won't have enough water to plant their second / third crops ... well, they'll have enough to plant, just not to grow it.

[halloween]

1. 2001 = win

2. 2005 = win

3. 2006 = win

4. 2007 = win

5. 2011 = win

6. 2014 = win

I would suggest in addition to learning how to count, you find the nearest dictionary and look up the definition of hypocrisy, I'm not quite sure you have a grasp on this particular word yet.

Two of those elections saw Thaksin's party run unopposed, and twice his party has been disbanded for electoral fraud and bribery. The 2011 election could have seen a 3rd party disbanded as there was more than sufficient grounds, and it is assumed the EC allowed them a pass for fear of further political violence, now a common feature of Thaksin's campaigns. But let's not mention that. "For you.....it's all black and white, there is no grey."

You reinforce my point!

Despite all the establishments efforts, Thaksin keeps on winning.

Election boycotts, ridiculous judicial rulings, exaggerated allegations of vote buying, false and exaggerated corruption allegations, strong-arm tactics by the army, bastardising the 1997 constitution, rejigging electoral laws (Abhisit's unelected government), NACC, Constitutioanl Court and Electoral Commission let loose off the chain with an agenda, increased in LM prosecutions, slaughter of 90 citizens in the streets.........and it goes on.

All of this and Thaksin wins and wins and wins.

And you ignore mine. Saying that another poster sees only black and white, there is no grey, while yourself posting flat statements which most certainly have grey areas is nothing but hypocrisy.