Is the Chiang Rai forum dying?

[AjarnP]

Regarding Government Health Insurance, I friend of mine had surgery last week at the government hospital and they informed him that they would not be renewing is card.

I have a residence permit and I notice that my card is not like others as it looks different and they plainly spell out on top of the card that I am a permanent. Not sure if they will renew my card at the end of December.

Don,

You and I are paddling the same canoe. They told me that the gold card which we both currently hold will carry on indefinitely except that there may be an edict on the way that has us paying a percentage of the bill.

I'll post when I learn more.

[curtklay]

I would like to post my opinion about this but I am scared somebody might disagree with me or be rude to me so I won't bother.

In all seriousness, this echoes my feelings about all the forums on TV, not just Chiang Rai. I used to love the informative exchanges, but over the past few years it has just become a battleground. It's not worth the time or effort to comment, knowing you will be attacked for your thoughts. Lately, I've been wondering why I even bother reading such crap.

I think these are the most accurate posts about the trouble with this forum. The other forums on TV do seem to have plenty of "attackers" but they are mixed in with plentiful good posts. Many posts, but not all, get disparaging remarks by different members. On this Chiang Rai sub-forum, there really only seems to be one major attacker, but that member is relentless. I, and I'm certain many others also, don't want to post here because it's almost guaranteed they will be knocked for it by this member. It's really too bad as this could be a great place to exchange ideas. As they say, "One bad apple...".

Insert image of 2 grown men crying and one laughing here. My comment was clearly tongue in cheek. If you post an opinion on a forum, somebody will disagree with it. If you can't handle that, it says more about you than your "attackers".

Sticks and stones.......

Jeez...you couldn't just accept the complements, and remain silent? Your tongue and cheek comment was actually very insightful, but that was apparently unintentional.

Thanks for proving my point. No doubt, that was unintentional too.

Edited October 9, 2014 by curtklay

[Paul888]

Jeez...you couldn't just accept the complements, and remain silent? Your tongue and cheek comment was actually very insightful, but that was apparently unintentional.

Thanks for proving my point. No doubt, that was unintentional too.

Probably as unintentional as you revealing yourself to be no different than the kind of person you are complaining about.

You can't have it both ways. Don't snipe at others and then cry or run away when they answer you back.

We all arrived here via different paths. Of course we won't always agree, and sometimes something somebody says may be taken the wrong way, but that is what gives a forum life. You just have to make sure that you respect the lines. There may have been a lot of good posters disappear over the last few years, but there are very few unanswered questions here so things seem to be getting along just fine and that will probably still be the case in the future as the current regular posters turn over and are replaced by others.

As I said before, if the fear that somebody will disagree with you is enough to stop you wanting to post then you really need to get over that, because unless you start your own forum and have power to censor others' opinions, sooner or later somebody somewhere will disagree with you and you can't always run away.

[curtklay]

I have no problem with disagreements. I can enjoy a healthy debate without crying or running away. But when the comments start getting vicious, personal, insulting, and off-topic to the point that the moderators have to remove them, it's no longer of any value and a waste of time. Six posts have already been removed from this thread. Those are the people I am complaining about, and I am not one of them. Nor did I say you are.

TV forums have been a source of great help, information, and entertainment for me. But over the last year or so, there has been a change in the environment that has been discouraging. I'm not the only one who has commented on it. Too many people just looking for a fight or trolling have lowered the quality, and made it a hostile place to get involved. I simply choose not to participate many times when I do have a comment to make. That's not fear, or running away crying; it's just finding better things to do.

Your original post, while humorous, did seem to allude to similar thinking. I was only agreeing with that thinking, as I believe Joey DaWrench was as well.

PS: I haven't cried or run away from anything in many years; certainly not over a post in TVF.

Edited October 9, 2014 by curtklay

[apache9441]

If someone asks a question then someone will answer I guess, so It's not dead but it sure is quiet. Other Forums have there quite times too. The vast majority of forum readers seem to want to read but don't put anything back in the way of a contribution. I can't see that changing anytime soon.

A lot of people seem to have gone quiet but it would appear they are still around although maybe lurking for when the inevitable 'mediation' takes place. we are not allowed to discuss something that sounds like mediation so I won't . but it sure is entertaining when it takes place, but you get to miss the Gist of the conversation.

It would seem there are still a lot of Good folks around like Scea and Harrry and a few others and I've had quite a lot of fun over the years with VF. I don't bare a grudge, it's not like forums are the realworld. I wish other people wouldn't too but I may as well be barking at that frog that ate the Moon. I just wish we could get over ourselves and contribute to any forum we like, when we like.

This will probably be my last contribution to any forum for a while

Edited October 9, 2014 by apache9441

[JoeyDaRench]

You posted:

I speak the language, I don’t speak disparagingly about Thais or Chinese, I don’t believe in the conspiracy theories of some, I am not trying to make a buck off of other members, I am always polite and courteous with everyone I meet, I have never asked to have a member removed from this forum, I never raise my voice or hurl insults or profanities at others and even when I think someone is an idiot I am too polite to say so.

I moved here much younger than most, I have never found Thailand to be a difficult or confusing place to live, I don’t have food fetishes or baggage from a past life and have never been into manual laborer.

I have never been divorced, have no children, receive no government support and have no health issues. I don’t smoke, drink, gamble, cheat on my wife or physically or emotionally abuse others.

While I certainly cannot attest to these statements, many of your posts certainly show a propensity towards what you have written above. I applaud you. I personally cannot claim all of those. Does that make you better or worse? No. Do these accolades give you the right to diminish my opinion or beliefs? No.

I’m simply looking for a more pleasant environment (in this forum) to exchange ideas. People have bad ideas. I’ve had more than my share. But I truly believe that most people won’t share their ideas if they feel there is a likelihood of being demeaned or maligned. And isn’t this a forum designed to promote the sharing of ideas?

It was written:

As I said before, if the fear that somebody will disagree with you is enough to stop you wanting to post then you really need to get over that, because unless you start your own forum and have power to censor others' opinions, sooner or later somebody somewhere will disagree with you and you can't always run away.

I have no problem at all with disagreement. Disagreement is healthy bringing insight and change. Debate is good. What I am referring to (as have others) is more akin to harassment. I really don’t think anyone is running away. I suspect there are a tremendous number of people who continue to read the posts, but won’t respond.

As curtklay said: I have no problem with disagreements. I can enjoy a healthy debate without crying or running away.

I suspect most TV members feel that way. (and I enjoyed the non-typo at the end of the Post Script).

At the end of it all, my bottom line is that I don’t want to go away, I do want to post helpful comments as well as receive them. I do want to read good insightful ideas, as I have certainly seen from the member I seem to be sparring with, even if I don’t always agree with them. I simply don’t want to do it with the looming undertone of harassment.

Which brings me back to the OP:

I don't visit this forum often but it seems unusually quiet. Is this forum dying? If so, what's up with that?

While my writings are only my own personal opinion, I believe that many others as well as myself have outlined “what’s up with that?”.

[villagefarang]

If someone asks a question then someone will answer I guess, so It's not dead but it sure is quiet. Other Forums have there quite times too. The vast majority of forum readers seem to want to read but don't put anything back in the way of a contribution. I can't see that changing anytime soon.

A lot of people seem to have gone quiet but it would appear they are still around although maybe lurking for when the inevitable 'mediation' takes place. we are not allowed to discuss something that sounds like mediation so I won't . but it sure is entertaining when it takes place, but you get to miss the Gist of the conversation.

It would seem there are still a lot of Good folks around like Scea and Harrry and a few others and I've had quite a lot of fun over the years with VF. I don't bare a grudge, it's not like forums are the realworld. I wish other people wouldn't too but I may as well be barking at that frog that ate the Moon. I just wish we could get over ourselves and contribute to any forum we like, when we like.

This will probably be my last contribution to any forum for a while

So are you just leaving your indian tribal affiliations for some new less obvious titles to hide your identity, or are you actually going somewhere with the intent of not posting?

[villagefarang]

Clearly some of you missed the running away reference but that is understandable since you weren’t around during that time. Perhaps we shouldn’t dwell on that one.

[toybits]

I sincerely do not understand why the bickering and sniping comment I made was deleted. Did I miss something here? My posts have been very tame compared with that of other members here. If my posts are not up to your standards, then I would gladly say "So Long and Farewell". Adios Amigos. Hasta La Vista Baby!!!

NO need to reply. I am saying GOOD BYE TO Thai Visa!!!

[apache9441]

no doub't You could pick up on my bad grammar and punctuation instantly VF, so nowhere to Hide for us lesser individuals. Alas, my Identities are sometimes 'disappeared' . Plenty of Indian tribes still though, although I doub't I would bother signing up again .

[Rotweiler]

I do believe an observation is in order.

These are only my opinions and are not intended to represent the opinions of this forum, nor should they be considered as disparaging to any poster hereto.

When I joined TV originally, it was only after many years of "lurking" in the bushes - not frequently but perhaps once a week for a few minutes. At that point I was living in Chiang Mai and spent most of my TV time in that forum. I found it useful and enlightening, and on occasion, highly entertaining. I especially enjoyed the wide range of opinions - on any subject and certainly many posts that very obviously very opinionated and even perhaps downright dumb. They all added colour to the forum and certainly contributed to what I believed was the original purpose of the forum.

It seemed however that with the passage of time, members began to see the forum differently - perhaps they saw the forum as no longer an exchange of opinions amoung fellow now-residents in Thailand, but rather as a "wiki" of thai-farangness facts.

Upon moving to Chiang Rai Province, I appropriately started lurking here but a number of years ago decided to surface and "contribute" although I am certain that not all members always found my "contributions" as useful.

That is as it should be. This is a forum (opinionated'ness by definition!). Useful, yes, always in agreement, certainly not. No one single persona herein has all of the answers but in the wide range of opinions, we often find assistance in what we were looking for or even what we didn't know we were looking for.

I for one have found this forum useful. No I will not take my ball and run off home just because someone has disagreed with me. Nor will I intentional put-down anyone else's opinion.

But I will continue to disagree if I see that opinion as wrong; I will continue to point out errors of fact. And I will continue to try to assist other now-residents here. Perhaps other lurkers/visitors/members may find that objectionable, they are free to leave (or better still, voice those ojections!) - no one forces anyone to make posts here.

Just my three-bits worth.

[Paul888]

I think the biggest problem with any forum is that it is very easy for simple one off disagreements to escalate into ongoing feuds where people respond to the poster or what he has said previously, rather than the actual post.

Overcome this, and it is a step in the right direction.

[villagefarang]

I have no problem with someone running off to build a new clubhouse to play in, where you have total control over the rules and the players, but trying to burn down the old one while you are on your way out the door, is inexcusable. You would think the whole scorched earth thing would have stopped after two years.

I say enough with all the vitriol and finger pointing. Lets move on and adopt a more civil tone. Two forums are probably not necessary but they do exist so lets leave it at that. There is no need for one to be based on hatred of the other and no further attempt should be made to disrupt this one.

[rijb]

Op,

Is your question answered?

Or has the voice of reason convinced you to find another forum?

[JulieM]

I'm the OP. I must admit to being a bit lost. How my simple question led to two pages of comments and several deleted comments is beyond me. I didn't mean to pour salt into a wound, if that is what I have done.

[canuckamuck]

I didn't know there was any trouble in the sleepy little CR forum, I thought it was well behaved and courteous.

But then there isn't much reason to visit. We just don't have much going on. Me included.

[rijb]

Op, not your fault. It was a good question. So far, no good answers.

Edited October 10, 2014 by rijb

[harrry]

I'm the OP. I must admit to being a bit lost. How my simple question led to two pages of comments and several deleted comments is beyond me. I didn't mean to pour salt into a wound, if that is what I have done.

You have to remember JulieM we live in a small town. Most places of this size do not even have a local forum and the couple that do except for ChiangMai which is much larger would be lucky to get 50 posts a year and these are mostly from three or four people.

I may not be completely right with this potted history but without trying to put too much blame anywhere here is my view of the history of our forum.

A few people but mainly limbo started the forum off. It built because of limbo's long connection with the the town and his strong interest in the Football Club which gave a sort of base to build on. Limbo is an extremely interesting poster with a long history here and a connection at fairly high levels with the artistic community of CR. When he was a moderator the forum was a pretty lively interesting place but maybe the football parties got too much because late night postings at times were extremely abusive and sometimes rather profane so a new moderator was put in place. I do not think limbo ever recovered from this.

After a little while the forum had a slightly different perspective. One wanted a forum which was basicly a bulitan board of announcements with a fairly limited social networking as this was done outside the forum with a couple of activities he is involved in. One wanted a more general community where he could put the photos he had to share and his ideas out to those who were interested and the forum being a place where people talked to each other on the forum. Two completely different characters became the prime movers. Both of them are extremely nice people but both are from different backgrounds and it became a little bit like a war between cats and dogs with each one trying to outdo the other. (I know neither think this but it is how it seems to me). Things came to a head when one of them who has a business (and a good fair little one too) kept trying to put posts which were really disguised promotional posts. On having it pointed out that TV is a commercial organisation and if he wished to do this he flounced and started his own forum. This is a very nice little bulltan board but although it has a large number of members who are mostly associated with two large activities in town. Those who belong to it are strong friends and meet outside but do not communicate much there.

VF meanwhile kept posting in this forum and politely replies to all people and tries to make them welcome. This breaks down somewhat when members of the other forum get bored (probably because they cannot behave like that on the other forum) and come here and abuse people here and particularly VF who is seen as the one who caused the break. Most of these posters have several times had their forum posting rights removed and are generally not using the names they used when they were here because they have been banned.

Sadly I do not think this will change. We are a small town and VF and the other posters deserve credit for having maintained an active forum in a town much smaller than any other TV forum.

You did throw the cat in among the pigeons a bit JulieM but I am glad you did not mean to. I know others may disagree with this version of history and that is fine but please people if you come here do so to communicate not to throw stones.

[rijb]

That was then. This is now.

Why should new members care about the history of these petty feuds?

Let people post what they want.

We don't need old-timers (carrying excess baggage) guarding this forum for 'useful' contributions.

[villagefarang]

Excellent post Harrry and I greatly appreciate getting your perspective. I have no argument with anything you said.

[MacWalen]

I don't think its dead. Small place, not as much action as in other places so less topics to discuss or argue about. I read it and I am sure a lot of others do although we may not be posting much.

[NeverSure]

This topic surprises me. I visit and read and always thought this forum was more polite than many others. Some of the other forums on TV are downright obnoxious compared to this one, IMHO.

So it shows how little I know. I'm sorry to hear if it's been having issues. I never expected that.

[BrookRoberts]

Instead of asking "Is the Chiang Rai forum dying?" it might be better to ask what is needed to rejuvenate it.

1. The other local forum is locally owned & operated, they don't make mistakes that can easily be made through lack of local knowledge.

It's interesting to note that this thread has also provoked a response on that other forum. Case in point on that other thread, 2 members here were banned for being the same person. One of them regularly goes on the monthly bike rides, the other runs a succesful local business - they are not the same person and many locals know that. When mistakes are made, rectify them.

2. One member here consistently crops up as divisive and has caused many to leave and no longer post (although I suspect they read the posts occasionally, as indeed I do).

If that member could consider whether his posts are kind and useful before posting, it could make a big difference.

3. If you don't give someone a voice they will fight you.

Case in point, Iraq. The last P.M. dominated his cabinet with his religous faction and took away the voice of his opponents. Result, the mother of all battles. Too many people in this province have been banned, their voices have been taken away and they fight back through the other forum, you have only to look at the success of their Banned Bad Boy luncheon. Revisit those that were banned and see if there is a way for new beginnings.

4. We are all equal.

It doesn't matter if you have lived here 5 minutes or 50 years, whether this is your first post or you have made 6,000+, you have an equal right to post and be heard. There is no seniority here so don't assume you are more important.

5. Forums need financial sponsorship.

Be extra careful with the hands that can feed you. It's not easy to build a business in Thailand. Carry new business openings as news items, don't expect a new business to sponsor before it's successful, but keep the door open for it later. Above all don't make an enemy of them.

6. Acorns grow into Oak Trees

Another local forum could spread to another province, before you know it, it could spread to the whole country. That other local forum is not dying, far from it, it's way more active than this one and it's now in Chiang Mai. It's not going to go away and the current situation just drives it's growth.

Forums are social media. Keep it social.

[rijb]

Nice, practical post!

Social media is just a business. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Letting your customers go away is not good business.

[sceadugenga]

I think describing the local forum's response as a response is less than accurate, that was a serious meltdown.

It convinced me of the total lack of justice in this world when VF is desribed as a "clever wordsmith" and I'm "the Chiang Rai troll".

Administration of forums isn't all pats on the back and congratulations, eventually you're sure to piss some one off and you have to be able to accept it and move on.

[A1Str8]

No.

[BrookRoberts]

I think describing the local forum's response as a response is less than accurate, that was a serious meltdown.

It convinced me of the total lack of justice in this world when VF is desribed as a "clever wordsmith" and I'm "the Chiang Rai troll".

Administration of forums isn't all pats on the back and congratulations, eventually you're sure to piss some one off and you have to be able to accept it and move on.

I don't know enough about you to comment Scea.

However you slice and dice it, the fact remains people have voted with their feet and it is this forum who have lost out. You can moan about the past or you can try and put things right.

That other forum means that when someone gets banned here or votes with their feet, they become part of a much more active and successful community. They have a voice, a loud one, and it's listened to. Gone are the days of being banned and disappearing into obscurity.

Some would go so far as to say this forum is finished in Ching Rai. Will Chiang Mai be next? Where will it end? Do we want change or do we want to be Ostrich's?

I know of one business who was warned that sponsoring this forum would be bad for his business. There are successful people in this province that are working behind the scenes to promote the other forum and finish this one, that can't be healthy.

Remember the old adage, a happy customer tells another, an unhappy customer tells 20 more. There are way too many unhappy customers here.

FWIW I think the time has come for a change.

[onthedarkside]

The last 3 posts were off topic. Try to stay on the topic about this Chiang Rai forum and not get into slanging matches.

[englishoak]

Wow guys simply wow.

Used to be a real cool sub forum here.

At least CR itself hasnt changed that much

[sceadugenga]

I think describing the local forum's response as a response is less than accurate, that was a serious meltdown.

It convinced me of the total lack of justice in this world when VF is desribed as a "clever wordsmith" and I'm "the Chiang Rai troll".

Administration of forums isn't all pats on the back and congratulations, eventually you're sure to piss some one off and you have to be able to accept it and move on.

I don't know enough about you to comment Scea.

However you slice and dice it, the fact remains people have voted with their feet and it is this forum who have lost out. You can moan about the past or you can try and put things right.

That other forum means that when someone gets banned here or votes with their feet, they become part of a much more active and successful community. They have a voice, a loud one, and it's listened to. Gone are the days of being banned and disappearing into obscurity.

Some would go so far as to say this forum is finished in Ching Rai. Will Chiang Mai be next? Where will it end? Do we want change or do we want to be Ostrich's?

I know of one business who was warned that sponsoring this forum would be bad for his business. There are successful people in this province that are working behind the scenes to promote the other forum and finish this one, that can't be healthy.

Remember the old adage, a happy customer tells another, an unhappy customer tells 20 more. There are way too many unhappy customers here.

FWIW I think the time has come for a change.

Change is inevitable and I certainly look forward to most if it's for the good.

I look forward to any suggestions by new members such as yourself as to how it can be implemented.

And no, VillageFarang is not going to ride off into the sunset.

The new forum did not make a new start, it took the baggage from here and enshrined it over there.

There was a huge opportunity to unite the Chiang Rai community but a thread was started where members were allowed to abuse certain ThaiVisa users, often in offensive and divisive terms.

Sanity eventually prevailed and the thread has gone... or been hidden for privileged users... but the memories remain.

Joining for me was probably never an option even if I had been approached by the organisers, which I wasn't.

And if that sounds like sour grapes you just could be right.

Where they are wrong is in that long standing claim that we are a two bit forum where people rarely post because of an unhappy atmosphere.

We're not, we're a forum of nearly 200,000 members for ALL of Thailand and people who are interested in it.

If there are problems here it will change as it has changed many times in the 10 years I've spent here.

We're going to be here for a long time yet.

Edited October 12, 2014 by sceadugenga