Koh Tao: British tourist murder suspects confess to human rights commissioner

[sid1281]

you know I actually question if Sean was at all just innocent in all of this

[givenall]

No surprise they confess to a Thai. Probably the same one who said no human trafficking exist in Thailand

[TheCruncher]

@balo......of course there is no need for a motive.

People go out every weekend in Thailand and commit rape and double murder....of course they do and they have no motive at all.

You really are quite ridiculous....one of the key issues in any case like this is what was the motive?

It could be an altercation started it...that's just about the only sensible thing you have said.

Funny then...no mention of it from the two Burmese lads isn't it?

Time for you to relax with a sample of DNA.

I don't really understand what you mean with that every murder has a motive, but it sounds to me that every murder should be premeditated, which certainly isn't always the case.

If a motive can arise also seconds before the crime, then I think they gave as motive that they got sexually aroused. In the end, if these guys are the real suspects, I think initially they didn't have the intention to kill but it was a result from conjunction of circumstances.

[canuckamuck]

A lot of talk now if Sean was involved, I think he was there, but certainly not as an attacker. He was old friends with David and they had plans to get together that night. It would be weird if that had turned to murder.

Obviously Sean witnessed something that night, hence the erratic Facebook posts, and the near confession of being a witness when he said "I know you tried to save her David." He also implied who was really involved.

Sean had the same kind of wound on his forearm that David had on his neck and head. Forearm suggests a defensive wound. His guitar appeared to be streaked in blood, and there was a witness who claimed she cleaned blood off a Sean that night.

Then finally the bizarre convenience store incident, where Mon tracked him down and he hid behind the counter. There was definitely something going on there. Sean said they intended to see him hanged that night.

Then the police let him go and he has been silent ever since.

It would be great if he could come forward now and tell the world what he saw. But I have a feeling a deal was made before he left, they have something on him and likely vice versa. We might never hear from him again.

[sid1281]

I don't believe he knew David as well as he made out. Would be interesing if Hannah and david's friends in time would speak out about this - Did they see Sean out on the night of the murders? Or even Nom Sod

For someone who lost a close friend he was out the next day on the Koh Tao Pub Crawl. Hmmmm

I also believe he knew 'Nom Sod' - I will even go as far as to say I believe he supplied drugs to people on the Island.

I believe Hannah was spiked with drugs. The Police refused to state this out of respect to David and Hannah's families

The question is who spiked her and who supplied the drugs.

That yabba drug is also known as the 'madness' drug isn't it

[Aussieroaming]

What pissed rapist is going to wear a condom

[Thongkorn]

I predicted the Thais would blame Burmese or Cambodians, This wants an Independence investigation , but Thailand will no let that happen

[englishoak]

The third person has said today, he does not believe that his two friends are guilty.. that he has been beaten also. The next morning when he saw his two friends, all appeared normal and neither of them had any cuts, scratches etc. If that is their only witness then he is only going to beneficial to the defence tbh

He also said they bought 3 beers... now 3 beers between 3 wouldnt get anyone even merry, he left them at 1am... that leaves the 2 remaining an hr or so to go from 3 beers shared out between 3 to very very drunk... ok its possible but pretty bloody hard to do

[Soutpeel]

I predicted the Thais would blame Burmese or Cambodians, This wants an Independence investigation , but Thailand will no let that happen

As did over half the TVmembers the first day this was reported..

[Dogmatix]

The third person has said today, he does not believe that his two friends are guilty.. that he has been beaten also. The next morning when he saw his two friends, all appeared normal and neither of them had any cuts, scratches etc. If that is their only witness then he is only going to beneficial to the defence tbh

He also said they bought 3 beers... now 3 beers between 3 wouldnt get anyone even merry, he left them at 1am... that leaves the 2 remaining an hr or so to go from 3 beers shared out between 3 to very very drunk... ok its possible but pretty bloody hard to do

The time of death is supposed to have been after 3a.m. which makes it even harder. But in other accounts they were supposed to have been drinking wine as well as beer. Even so, they would have had to drink quite a lot over 4 hours to be pie eyed. Unless they stole it from the AC Bar, it doesn't seem they could have had much cash to buy a huge amount of drink, especially wine.

[Dogmatix]

I don't believe he knew David as well as he made out. Would be interesing if Hannah and david's friends in time would speak out about this - Did they see Sean out on the night of the murders? Or even Nom Sod

For someone who lost a close friend he was out the next day on the Koh Tao Pub Crawl. Hmmmm

I also believe he knew 'Nom Sod' - I will even go as far as to say I believe he supplied drugs to people on the Island.

I believe Hannah was spiked with drugs. The Police refused to state this out of respect to David and Hannah's families

The question is who spiked her and who supplied the drugs.

That yabba drug is also known as the 'madness' drug isn't it

Yes, but ya ba is methamphetamine which is a stimulant that makes you wide awake. Rape drugs are things like rohypnol and ketamine which make you feel drowsy and pliant and easily forget what happened. Rohypnol is used medically as a sleeping pill for people with incurable insomnia and ketamine is used as a pre-anaesthetic in vetinarary surgery. Ketamine or ya K is exensively available on the black market in Thailand. Rohypnol would be useful to police in extracting confessions under torture because they would become very suggestible and not remember much about the beatings.

[Dogmatix]

So whose sperm was in the condom?

Have you seen a rapist comes prepared with a condom?

It is not clear that the user of the condom ejaculated or not. The pictures look like he didn't but it could have been tipped out when removing it. Even if he didn't ejaculate, the wearer would have deposited detectable semen in pre-ejaculate fluid and skin cells and usually some pubic hairs. But in this case nada.

Apparently rape with a condom is more and more common these days as rapists seek to avoid venereal diseases and depositing their DNA. Google it and you will see.

Without any DNA trace from inside the condom it remains an open possibility whether it was used by David or a third rapist. In fact it could have been used by one of the other two rapists, if one started with a condom but discarded it after having erectile problems.

One thing that should have been mentioned by police is whether their were saliva traces on Hannah's lips. If David and she were making out before being attacked, as claimed, David's DNA would have been deposited on her lips from kissing. Despite the mess made of her upper face by the killers, the tissue of her lips was still intact. David's saliva might also have been on her nipples, if they were being intimate but police have not mentioned that. So far there is definitely no forensic evidence presented to either confirm or refute that David and Hannah were together before they were attacked. It is in police's interest to establish that the couple were having sex so as to support the confession version but they have failed to do so.

[dondon950]

The third person has said today, he does not believe that his two friends are guilty.. that he has been beaten also. The next morning when he saw his two friends, all appeared normal and neither of them had any cuts, scratches etc. If that is their only witness then he is only going to beneficial to the defence tbh

He also said they bought 3 beers... now 3 beers between 3 wouldnt get anyone even merry, he left them at 1am... that leaves the 2 remaining an hr or so to go from 3 beers shared out between 3 to very very drunk... ok its possible but pretty bloody hard to do

The time of death is supposed to have been after 3a.m. which makes it even harder. But in other accounts they were supposed to have been drinking wine as well as beer. Even so, they would have had to drink quite a lot over 4 hours to be pie eyed. Unless they stole it from the AC Bar, it doesn't seem they could have had much cash to buy a huge amount of drink, especially wine.

If they had drunk the beers/wine on the beach.. sure the containers would have been retrieved as evidence ?!? I have always had a problem with the cig butt tbh. Surely on any beach there would 100's but they managed to find a butt which has a DNA match(within hours) allegedly or it's been cross contaminated from the start.. and why the lack of other forensics such as fibres, sweat etc.. Same as yourselves so many unanswered questions..?!? I fear that even if the DNA is a match.. nobody is ever going to know what to believe anymore.. Just hope that people don't let this go.. it's not the first time and it won't be the last but they need to realise that people around the world will forever be scrutinising these many murders that happens now and in the future..

[Lozza]

You can't just state stuff as fact or facts being ignored because you believe them to be true.

I also have my own questions about this case and I don't think it's over yet.

You state as a fact that David has push dagger wounds when the pathologist states should they have been push dagger wounds there would have been marking to the bone below and there wasn't. I'm sure the pathologist is better qualified to make this statement and I'm sure he is aware that there will have been someone checking when David was sent home.

Really there are so many people on here twisting what is been said to suit their own idea of what happened. We only have the information supplied to us by the police and some from the media (which has not always been consistent)

One other point please leave the parents alone!! They are grieving.

How do YOU know there were no marks onthe bone - can you provide a link to corroners report and show proof that it was done fairly? How do you know there should be marks to the bone - people dont have bones under their jaw on this planet - maybe they do on yours!!

Wow! a full personal attack for stating the official pathologist stated these wounds were not the same as wounds from a blade. As I stated in my earlier post I'm sure his results will be scrutinized and I'm sure he is aware of that.

So it's OK for us to go along with catweazels theory which is taken from CSI la facebook but we should ignore the official pathologist as we were not present when he did his work.

I also saw the way Sean's wounds look very similar and jumped to the conclusion that perhaps from the same weapon. Look closer bruising around David's wounds is far more widespread which when you listen to the pathologist's report make sense as the skin splitting with a blunt instrument.

It's obvious the blade fits better with your own theory so believe what you will.

Please show link for pathology report showing no marks on the bones.

How does one hit someone one the jaw with a hoe with enough force to split the skin, but does not break the jaw?

So Sean's wounds are from the hoe? rubbish

[NamKAheng]

Beer and wine?

Migrant workers?

Is wine cheap on Koh Tao?

I know in Bangkok the cheapest wine is about 350 Baht a bottle. Surely these people won't spend a days wage on a bottle of wine.

Maybe they talk about rice wine, very cheap at 7 Eleven.

[Lozza]

The third person has said today, he does not believe that his two friends are guilty.. that he has been beaten also. The next morning when he saw his two friends, all appeared normal and neither of them had any cuts, scratches etc. If that is their only witness then he is only going to beneficial to the defence tbh

He also said they bought 3 beers... now 3 beers between 3 wouldnt get anyone even merry, he left them at 1am... that leaves the 2 remaining an hr or so to go from 3 beers shared out between 3 to very very drunk... ok its possible but pretty bloody hard to do

The time of death is supposed to have been after 3a.m. which makes it even harder. But in other accounts they were supposed to have been drinking wine as well as beer. Even so, they would have had to drink quite a lot over 4 hours to be pie eyed. Unless they stole it from the AC Bar, it doesn't seem they could have had much cash to buy a huge amount of drink, especially wine.

and they remembered to put the empty bottles in the trash can or took them home. Similar to taking the phone home and remembering to put it in a freezer bag in the bushes, did anyone check they had freezer bags in their cupboards.

[thatswhatuthought]

I have little doubt police may have roughed these guys up or at minimum deprived them of some of their rights but have nearly no doubt (only doubt is the court has not ruled yet) they have the right guys. Also have no doubt if these suspects were Thai (especially rich) that many of the posters outraged over the abuse of their rights would be screaming for more of their blood.

Police shouldn't abuse any suspects or anyone even rapist murderers but the evidence is just beyond overwhelming against these guys and their DNA samples can be got again by these lawyers and human rights people they confessed and then compared to the DNA results from the crime scene.

The way this is going to go down seems fairly predictable ..... these guys are going to please guilty and do everything in their power to downplay how monstrous their behavior was by saying they were drunk, didn't mean to kill them and so on in hopes of not receiving the death penalty

You've said enough John. Over explaining yourself isn't going to convince anyone.

[sid1281]

John ThailandJohn been smoking Ya-Ba??

[djhotsox]

I hope the Burmese lawyers appoint a doctor to assess any injuries on the two accused in order to back-up or refute their claims of torture. That should be a priority. Photographic evidence a requirement.

I wouldn't support their collection of DNA samples from the accused and have them sent to the UK (or vice-versa) for comparison with the UK autopsy, because a no-match would be subject to accusations of deliberate misinformation. Therefore, only an independent comparison would be acceptable, but in all honesty I cannot see the PM accepting this as head of a sovereign state.

The lawyers should pick-up on the unidentified third person's DNA found on Ms W's chest, which is yet unmatched, and question the RTP's case that only the two accused were involved as per the reenactment scene.

They should also examine the RTP's DNA evidence to establish exactly what was matched to what. A cigarette butt or semen?

I hope they will be able to cross-examine the witness, who has been cleared of even being at the murder scene - although I don't hold out much hope of that.

Whatever the outcome, the RTP has not come out of this investigation smelling of roses.

Good torture techniques do not leave visible evidence.

[djhotsox]

The third person has said today, he does not believe that his two friends are guilty.. that he has been beaten also. The next morning when he saw his two friends, all appeared normal and neither of them had any cuts, scratches etc. If that is their only witness then he is only going to beneficial to the defence tbh

He also said they bought 3 beers... now 3 beers between 3 wouldnt get anyone even merry, he left them at 1am... that leaves the 2 remaining an hr or so to go from 3 beers shared out between 3 to very very drunk... ok its possible but pretty bloody hard to do

The time of death is supposed to have been after 3a.m. which makes it even harder. But in other accounts they were supposed to have been drinking wine as well as beer. Even so, they would have had to drink quite a lot over 4 hours to be pie eyed. Unless they stole it from the AC Bar, it doesn't seem they could have had much cash to buy a huge amount of drink, especially wine.

and they remembered to put the empty bottles in the trash can or took them home. Similar to taking the phone home and remembering to put it in a freezer bag in the bushes, did anyone check they had freezer bags in their cupboards.

I would be surprised if they even had a freezer!

[djhotsox]

So whose sperm was in the condom?

Have you seen a rapist comes prepared with a condom?

Did they even check if the condom fit? Surely this isn't going to be like an OJ's glove thing, that will be an interesting day in court! ..

[SteveFong]

so, who were the two men detained on the speedboat, racing away from the island, and probably spotted by helicopter, which was clearly, the way to catch a murderer escaping to Bangkok?

[SteveFong]

A lot of talk now if Sean was involved, I think he was there, but certainly not as an attacker. He was old friends with David and they had plans to get together that night. It would be weird if that had turned to murder.

Obviously Sean witnessed something that night, hence the erratic Facebook posts, and the near confession of being a witness when he said "I know you tried to save her David." He also implied who was really involved.

Sean had the same kind of wound on his forearm that David had on his neck and head. Forearm suggests a defensive wound. His guitar appeared to be streaked in blood, and there was a witness who claimed she cleaned blood off a Sean that night.

Then finally the bizarre convenience store incident, where Mon tracked him down and he hid behind the counter. There was definitely something going on there. Sean said they intended to see him hanged that night.

Then the police let him go and he has been silent ever since.

It would be great if he could come forward now and tell the world what he saw. But I have a feeling a deal was made before he left, they have something on him and likely vice versa. We might never hear from him again.

I suspect he was the only credible witness to the crime, and that is why they wanted him out of Thailand.

His passport number has probably been noted and if he ever tries to return to Thailand, he will vanish

[HeijoshinCool]

.

So again I ask you, what is your expertise in criminal investigations, DNA, criminal prosecution or defense?

Tell us.

Outside of two or three boneheads who adore your posts, you otherwise have zero credibility.

So tell us why we should all listen to you. What makes you special?

Impress us with your CV.

I don't think a CV check is needed to either accept or not accept reality and what is plausible compared with what is far fetched, not thought through or just nonsense based on small possible tidbits of information or missing information to a case that has not even been presented to a court yet.

All these far fetched theories and here we have two guys that have admitted to police, lawyers, their embassy and a Human Rights group that they did it and this is backed up by the fact their DNA tested positive with the DNA in/on at least one of the victims .... then there are the witnesses, the video and the phone and whatever else will be presented at court.

But forget about all this and lets instead focus on things like if poor Burmese folks drink wine and pretend there are no such things as cheap wine cooler drinks as opposed to expensive bottles of wine and lets focus on what they did with their empties.

If the words, reality and facts above alone don't wake you up then no CV is going to.

.

What I figured you say.

My CV includes 7 years as a street cop, followed by 18 as a homicide detective, and your voluminous, repetitive posts are, quite simply, both nonsensical and lacking any indication of knowledge or experience in criminal behavior, criminal investigation, confessions, DNA, treatment of suspects***, and, well, I prefer to keep my posts short.

None of this is as simple, nor black and white as you (and many others) are trying to make it. Difference is, you post like tomorrow was the end of the world.

Frankly, you remind me of the thousands of guys I interviewed, both witnesses and suspects, who were wannabe cops, but couldn't get hired by even the smallest department.

Either you are terminally bored, or you have an agenda.

*** For example, contrary to your claims that since the two Burmese did not ask for a lawyer (but maybe they did, you don't know), why should we expect them to be given one?

Here's why:

In extremely high-profile cases (like this one), handled by a real police department like where I worked, we often would not Mirandize suspects after taking them into custody, until a lawyer was present to represent them.

The last thing we wanted was for someone to make the claims people are making now against the RTP. It was a sacrifice, but usually paid off.

[draftvader]

.

So again I ask you, what is your expertise in criminal investigations, DNA, criminal prosecution or defense?

Tell us.

Outside of two or three boneheads who adore your posts, you otherwise have zero credibility.

So tell us why we should all listen to you. What makes you special?

Impress us with your CV.

I don't think a CV check is needed to either accept or not accept reality and what is plausible compared with what is far fetched, not thought through or just nonsense based on small possible tidbits of information or missing information to a case that has not even been presented to a court yet.

All these far fetched theories and here we have two guys that have admitted to police, lawyers, their embassy and a Human Rights group that they did it and this is backed up by the fact their DNA tested positive with the DNA in/on at least one of the victims .... then there are the witnesses, the video and the phone and whatever else will be presented at court.

But forget about all this and lets instead focus on things like if poor Burmese folks drink wine and pretend there are no such things as cheap wine cooler drinks as opposed to expensive bottles of wine and lets focus on what they did with their empties.

If the words, reality and facts above alone don't wake you up then no CV is going to.

.

What I figured you say.

My CV includes 7 years as a street cop, followed by 18 as a homicide detective, and your voluminous, repetitive posts are, quite simply, both nonsensical and lacking any indication of knowledge or experience in criminal behavior, criminal investigation, confessions, DNA, treatment of suspects***, and, well, I prefer to keep my posts short.

None of this is as simple, nor black and white as you (and many others) are trying to make it. Difference is, you post like tomorrow was the end of the world.

Frankly, you remind me of the thousands of guys I interviewed, both witnesses and suspects, who were wannabe cops, but couldn't get hired by even the smallest department.

Either you are terminally bored, or you have an agenda.

*** For example, contrary to your claims that since the two Burmese did not ask for a lawyer (but maybe they did, you don't know), why should we expect them to be given one?

Here's why:

In extremely high-profile cases (like this one), handled by a real police department like where I worked, we often would not Mirandize suspects after taking them into custody, until a lawyer was present to represent them.

The last thing we wanted was for someone to make the claims people are making now against the RTP. It was a sacrifice, but usually paid off.

I think "agenda". I think our "friend" is close to the heart of the issue....very close. This individual appears to be 1 of a handful who believe the RTP evidence.

47,540 - Man this is getting hard to ignore if you are a politician. Not the right number but travelling there in a hurry. Do you jump on the bandwagon now or wait for the larger numbers but risk your counterpart moving first and stealing all the thunder?

What matters to those at the top in Thailand? A bunch of Thai dishes at a local table or the f**k1ng banquet being teased by the UK right now? Any deals done in the weeks following the incident are now not looking as healthy. I think the next month or so could be very interesting. Remember the likely suspects aren't going anywhere because they know that the world is watching them. If they run now leaving business assets behind everyone will know its them. Question is, how will Thailand deal with this? Above board or below. These people might actually fancy the British police compared to who will come knocking! Bet they'll ask for Amnesty to help when it's their necks on the block!

[allan michaud]

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Beer and wine?

Migrant workers?

Is wine cheap on Koh Tao?

I know in Bangkok the cheapest wine is about 350 Baht a bottle. Surely these people won't spend a days wage on a bottle of wine.

I assume you do not know Thailand or this region as a whole. 'Wine' is generally something like a rice whiskey, Lao Khao probably, not wine in the western sense.

[SteveFong]

We all know now that this is a false article and that they did not confess anything to their lawyers other than being drunk, but still TV keeps this thread open as though it was factual,

same as the RTP stating the Myanmar embassy was happy with them, Also, a false statement

Interesting that Thai Visa doesnt have an article that the third suspect came back to the room and found the pair sleeping, with nothing to indicate a crime occurred, and no one mentione any blood anywhere in the residence,

a bloody crime scene but no blood?

sounds like the rapist killer swam to a boat, and washed in the water

has Thai Visa been pressured not to run more condemning stories?

[SteveFong]

So whose sperm was in the condom?

Have you seen a rapist comes prepared with a condom?

the condom was probably planted by the killers who wanted it to look like david and hannah were together

[nickjam]

Whilst all the speculating and doubting floods the internet, I must ask, where are the representatives of the UK and Myanmar and why aren't they saying anything? Why would they let Thai authorities state their position? The silence from both these governments is deafening. I'm British and I'm pretty embarrassed at the lame response from my representative. I understand the need to be diplomatic and more importantly protect the privacy, rights and requests of the poor families suffering through this terrible tragedy, but I want to know the UK's stance on this. Have we been shown irrefutable evidence gathered as a result of a proper investigation or are there serious doubts as a result of a fumbled investigation? Are we satisfied or are we gravely concerned? What do we think and what are we doing to do?

Speak up Mr Ambassador. There's a time for diplomacy and a time for straight talking. It's the least David and Hannah should expect