Koh Tao murder report: Prosecutors seek changes

[ClutchClark]

Well the accusation is you are accusing all posters of wanting to see a Thai person convicted. Or does that not count as an accusation in your book.

All points lead to Thai people ... Read the independent reports, rather than what the Thai media feeds you.

And therein lies atleast one of your problems.

You have included the word "all" when you paraphrase my post.

I did not say "all" posters but only to the "posters here who really want to see a thai convicted".

You are responding as if the shoe fits.

All, Some or just one. really doesn't matter you have accused people of wanting to see a Thai get convicted. People want to see justice and if it is a Thai person, so be it.

I doubt any of the people on this forum want to see a Thai convicted just for the sake of it.

It is a pleasure to meet you. I have long wanted to meet the person who is the spokesperson for all farang in Thailand.

And, yes, the choice of "all, some, or just one" does indeed make a difference when you are conversing in the english language.

[kkup]

I wonder how close the Thai "Human Rights Commissioner" is to the police chief and his mates.. It's hard to know the difference between those who want the truth and those who just scored a new gold watch.

[jacky54]

Wow a very very interesting report. Nobody saw the kid at uni till the 16th and he had scratches on his arm and neck..... If that's true I don't have words to describe the people from the bottom to the top trying to cover this up. Its just unfathomable... Let's get a journalist to the uni to start investigating these claims to c if anyone can back up this story... Come on you uni students.. Did u see this kid with scratches on his neck and arms. Speak up, its your chance to get rid of the rotten core of this country or at least the start. DNA would be left under Hanna's finger nails. . This needs some very serious looking into....

My missus figures at least ฿ 25 Million has changed hands already and ownership or interests in one or more businesses.

where did she get this figure from?

[bertty]

^{' Readily admit their guilt'}

^{What was actually said was 'I really admire their grit'}

^{You know what its like when you don't speak the same language.}

[bertty]

Well the accusation is you are accusing all posters of wanting to see a Thai person convicted. Or does that not count as an accusation in your book.

All points lead to Thai people ... Read the independent reports, rather than what the Thai media feeds you.

And therein lies atleast one of your problems.

You have included the word "all" when you paraphrase my post.

I did not say "all" posters but only to the "posters here who really want to see a thai convicted".

You are responding as if the shoe fits.

All, Some or just one. really doesn't matter you have accused people of wanting to see a Thai get convicted. People want to see justice and if it is a Thai person, so be it.

I doubt any of the people on this forum want to see a Thai convicted just for the sake of it.

It is a pleasure to meet you. I have long wanted to meet the person who is the spokesperson for all farang in Thailand.

And, yes, the choice of "all, some, or just one" does indeed make a difference when you are conversing in the english language.

I doubt any of the people on this Forum = me being a spokesperson for all farang in Thailand ???

Is that all farang, some or just one ??

Pleased to meet you also nice to know that even tho you disagree with me, you have used the self same argument to put your case across.

[tx22cb]

To me there are only 2 outcomes:

1. The 2 Burmese did it, or

2. If they didn't do it, they have been placed close enough to the scene and time such that at 4 AM they would have seen and/or observed commotion to an extent much more than they seem to have revealed.

3. a Thai "Boss" lost face and wanted revenge, got his 2 subordinates to subdue the couple, had his way first (naturally), then allowed his lackeys to have their turns and dispose of the evidence. The Boss's family find out and are horrified, send the Boss to BKK and get others to fabricate "video" and "paper" alibis. Boss's family make secret deals with the K Tao police and with the 2 minions, whilst publicly claiming to forget how to get in contact with the relative. Then miraculously the Boss surfaces (on cue), feigning being too busy studying to look at his phone and to notice the wall-to-wall news.

4. Something completely different.

5. The police version is the gospel truth.

[SCARLETIBIS1]

Was the interrogation taped?

Even if it wan't, the two suspects readily admit their guilt so it would not be difficult to have them explain themselves to a Native speaker/interpreter.

Jesus wept.

Jesus may have wept but thats about all he did. He sure never lifted a hand to help the innocent on that beach.

Wonder how Jesus found out about the murders? TV?

[culicine]

He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms.

This perplexes me. Up till now I thought the only DNA found on the condom (and it was outside - none inside ) was the female victims'. Did I miss something?

Yes, Hannah's on the outside and nothing inside...The prosecutors are not stupid and are seeing all of these inconsistencies. The police are constantly concocting and changing their story so they are finding it hard to track what was said. What a tangled web they have created for themselves. It would have been far easier to tell the truth from the start. It's much easier to remember facts.

[alfalfa19]

They are having a hard time keeping the lid on this pressure cooker. Hopefully this is one of many leaks that will lead to full exposure of this atrocity.

[Johnsen]

Amazing.. 25 million is a lot of coin not to mention the ongoing income from the businesses. That to me

Reads that one family on the island now controls a much greater piece of the pie or should I say island..... I wonder how much of that was paid to BK air to allow him to fly under a different name. Would love to have been a passenger on that flight IF its true he was on it. Surely u could blackmail the family for a piece of the 25 million. Somebody must have sat next to him. That person should now b worth a fortune to keep quiet. LeLet's face it the taxi driver was ALLEGEDLY offered 700,000. Can u imagine having the power to be able to say he sat next to me on the flight. You could write your own ticket for that. No doubt there is no hostess willing to lose her job for speaking up. I don't think the islanders have thought this one through to well. Let's face it everything would have been done in such a panic and very very quickly, not much time to think of the consequences what if.. They obviously thought to cover his uni but did they honestly think nobody would say anything. Scratches on his arm and neck is very damming. Now BK air look likely to come under scrutiny just to save this kids butt. If it were my airline no way would I risk my reputation for a murderer.

[catweazle]

A step in the right direction. Good to see that folks were standing up against the RTP threats towards public to not question the investigation. Talkin' about power to the people! Finally the ball is rolling, some heads will follow soon.

NOW is the time for the parents to speak up and send in a British investigation team!

To me it is utterly disturbing to see that tens of thousands of complete strangers seem to care more about finding out the truth than Hannah's and David's parents! Their silence is deafening and makes me angry! Grieving time, yes - but if I were a father of one of those kids, I would be here in Thailand by now with Interpol and would turn that cesspit of an island upside down!!!!

Edited October 9, 2014 by catweazle

[phantomfiddler]

Almost every criminal will deny that he committed the crime, especially after talking to a lawyer, so their denial is meaningless.

[bertty]

He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms.

This perplexes me. Up till now I thought the only DNA found on the condom (and it was outside - none inside ) was the female victims'. Did I miss something?

Yes, Hannah's on the outside and nothing inside...The prosecutors are not stupid and are seeing all of these inconsistencies. The police are constantly concocting and changing their story so they are finding it hard to track what was said. What a tangled web they have created for themselves. It would have been far easier to tell the truth from the start. It's much easier to remember facts.

When I was working in Thailand a fellow workmate commented on the fact that Thai people are not good at forward planning. Our job was to arrange things being delivered anything up to a month in advance.

He said the Thais called it 'super planning'

I would imagine the same has happened with this 800 page document.. No one who has imputed it has been able to read all the way thru it to cross the i's and dot the t's. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[joedot]

Sounds to me like the interpreter is the one saying they confessed. The interpreter who is possibly being paid by the police to get the confession, the interpreter that both suspects say they are afraid of, the same interpreter that supposedly beat the suspects along with police. Hello????????????????????????????????? Maybe get a different interpreter. That thought ever cross your mind. I think these two are not guilty, and the two guys in Sean Mcana's photos and the son of the chief need to be re-examined. The police don't want to do this because they are protecting their own. CSI LA says a student at the university said the son of the chief didn't show up until the 16th and had bruises and a scratch on his neck. There is 2 minutes of missing cctv footage. The dna of mon and the others needs to be independently verified. It is real easy for the police to get everyone off their ass. Say ok, we will allow an independent dna test to be done on these 2 suspects. And an independent dna test done of all these big guys in koh tao. Nobody with a Thai name can be involved. If they did that we would know the true killer and nobody would question anything. Of course the police won't do this because it would require honesty and common sense, two things they are lacking. This is disgusting.

[bertty]

Almost every criminal will deny that he committed the crime, especially after talking to a lawyer, so their denial is meaningless.

As it their admittance.

[alfalfa19]

To me there are only 2 outcomes:

1. The 2 Burmese did it, or

2. If they didn't do it, they have been placed close enough to the scene and time such that at 4 AM they would have seen and/or observed commotion to an extent much more than they seem to have revealed.

3. a Thai "Boss" lost face and wanted revenge, got his 2 subordinates to subdue the couple, had his way first (naturally), then allowed his lackeys to have their turns and dispose of the evidence. The Boss's family find out and are horrified, send the Boss to BKK and get others to fabricate "video" and "paper" alibis. Boss's family make secret deals with the K Tao police and with the 2 minions, whilst publicly claiming to forget how to get in contact with the relative. Then miraculously the Boss surfaces (on cue), feigning being too busy studying to look at his phone and to notice the wall-to-wall news.

4. Something completely different.

5. The police version is the gospel truth.

Number 3 makes a whole lot more sense than most of the Bull waste I've seen so far.

[SICHONSTEVE]

"However, both suspects insisted [to me] that they had committed the crimes," said the human-rights commissioner.

Just asking but..........does that statement not sound really strange to you ? I mean insisted ?

"He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms".

Classic!!!! Come on then people, now tell mw that these two Burmese ARE NOT rapists.

Please read this statement of fact several times if you have to - it basically say's that the police evidence is wrong as "they didn't use condoms when they raped her!!!!.

Still think that they are innocent little defenceless darlings???????????

We win the day and are fully vindicated in our beliefs!!! Well done TJT and any others in our camp!!

Edited October 9, 2014 by SICHONSTEVE

[SCARLETIBIS1]

An interesting article on Bangkok Post now about recanting of confessions and also there must be something wrong in the evidence if the report is being sent back for further work.

I just can't wrap my head around one fact - when they focused on migrant workers at the start of the case how did a bunch of lads who work in a bar that the victims went to and are known for singing and drinking close to the crime scene go unnoticed by the police? Why would the locals obstruct the case by giving false information if they knew the culprits were a pair of Burmese.

Very hard to know what to believe and the fact they have received so little legal help does not help the Thai police's case against them.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly and forgive me for maybe not being up to snuff on this but how do three undocumented Burmese even get a job on an island like KT in the first place much less decide to go there specifically in the first place. Why would the locals even hire them?

Then, we heard the cops forced everyone on the island to produce DNA. How about forcing all the business owners to supply a list of employees. Did they do that? Surely, if the 3 Burmese did it the business owner who employed them had to know it would get out he employed them. Yet they took a month to even find these guys.

And of course if I killed someone I might think about leaving the island asap. Not much of this makes any sense at all to me but hey I'm highly educated. Logic here not applicable.

Edited October 9, 2014 by SCARLETIBIS1

[JLCrab]

A step in the right direction. Good to see that folks were standing up against the RTP threats towards public to not question the investigation. Talkin' about power to the people! Finally the ball is rolling, some heads will follow soon.

NOW is the time for the parents to speak up and send in a British investigation team!

To me it is utterly disturbing to see that tens of thousands of complete strangers seem to care more about finding out the truth than Hannah's and David's parents! Their silence is deafening and makes me angry! Grieving time, yes - but if I were a father of one of those kids, I would be here in Thailand by now with Interpol and would turn that cesspit of an island upside down!!!!

A reasonable guess as to why the families are not more public may be indicated in that the international newspaper reports to which someone linked on one of these topics do not describe the actions of the two deceased prior to the unfortunate events that followed.

[bertty]

"However, both suspects insisted [to me] that they had committed the crimes," said the human-rights commissioner.

Just asking but..........does that statement not sound really strange to you ? I mean insisted ?

"He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms".

Classic!!!! Come on then people, now tell mw that these two Burmese ARE NOT rapists.

Please read this statement of fact several times if you have to - it basically say's that the police evidence is wrong as "they didn't use condoms when they raped her!!!!.

Still think that they are innocent little defenceless darlings???????????

We win the day and are fully vindicated in our beliefs!!! Well done TJT and any others in our camp!!

Oh dear, your carer popped down to the shops and forgot to put you in the padded room again.

[seahorse]

Not surprising that the other Burmese migrant workers would not want to believe fellow countrymen had committed the crime.

Such a statment has zero credibility.

Its no different than a Senior Thai Police official suggesting the same about a Thai.

This article offers little useful insight except the interpreter issue. It would be worth clarifying the interviews by having the taped recordings heard by additional Native burmese translators familiar with the same dialect.

Was the interrogation taped?

Even if it wan't, the two suspects readily admit their guilt so it would not be difficult to have them explain themselves to a Native speaker/interpreter.

But they explained themselves to the interpreter. They told him they didn't do it. A policeman hit them once. The interpreter hit them 4 times. They were threatened with electrocution. There are documented cases where the RTP have done this to people in custody in the past. They concentrate on the genital area. They then agreed to sign a confession saying they did it. It would take a very strong man to resist this kind of pressure. Their friend now also says he had nothing to do with it.

This information is readily available all over the internet and especially on this forum. Why are you cluttering this thread up with your ignorance?

Two young people's lives have been taken by a maniac backed up by at least one other maniac. Now these two young Burmese men's lives hang in the balance. The police have not made a good enough case to take those lives. I am not convinced that they are the maniacs. Not in the slightest.

[joedot]

it's obvious the interpreter is making up whatever he wants. These guys are 100% not guilty. There, I said it. I was hoping they were guilty so we could know the killers were brought to justice. Unfortunately I don't think this is the case at all, and a double injustice will happen if two innocent lives are ruined because of the police dishonesty. Just use a little common sense here. These guys are barely 5 feet tall. They were drunk that night. These two small kids could go subdue both a strong big David Miller and Hannah while drunk in the dark? I really believe 3 people did this. 2 small kids that were drunk, no. And what kid sits on the beach and decides to brutally bludgeon two people to death because they were sexually aroused. Wrong again. This was a crime of passion, not just a sex crime. Mon, his cop buddy, and the brother in bkk. Look real close there and I bet you find the truth

[Lex Talionis]

Meanwhile, the Myanmar embassy-appointed lawyer for the two men - identified by the Democratic Voice of Burma website as Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun - have told two different media outlets that the suspects confessed to him that they killed the pair - albeit unintentionally and while drunk.

This from the Bangkok Post of 8 Oct 2014 @17:08. And it's the lawyer appointed by Myanmar speaking. I thought this lawyer said the suspects told him they were innocent and forced to confess under torture. The way this case is being reported is baffling. The media are no better than the BIB.

[Dogmatix]

Parinya also said a Rohingya interpreter was used during the police interrogation of the two suspects, who are from Rakhine state, who allegedly bore a grudge against Rohingya people, apart from their different languages.

In civilized judicial systems there is no way that a confession by a suspect who needs an interpreter would be admissible without the provision of a qualified interpreter. Even in Thailand translated documents that we send to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for notarisation must have the stamp of a certified translator with address and telephone number. Surely Thai court rules for a confession which could get someone the death penalty are even more stringent. Clearly the police Rohingya interpreters are not qualified individuals, not to mention the allegations that they participated in the police beatings. One of them has a day job as a pancake man and probably has only a primary school education, if that. It is most unlikely that they were able to read and explain the Thai language confessions prepared by the police for the suspects to sign. It is also virtually certain that they are illegal immigrants themselves, since Burma and Bangladesh both persist in denying citizenship to Rohingyas.

The pancake man seems to have been provided as an interpreter for subsequent visits by others including Parinya from NCHR. So we actually have no idea what the suspects really said to him.

I hope the Samui court is not planning to use the services of similar interpreters at the trial.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Dogmatix

[Johnsen]

BK air would u step forward pls. Place your hand on the bible. Are you prepared to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God.

Was this kid on any of your flights the morning the murders were committed.

[TheCruncher]

To me there are only 2 outcomes:

1. The 2 Burmese did it, or

2. If they didn't do it, they have been placed close enough to the scene and time such that at 4 AM they would have seen and/or observed commotion to an extent much more than they seem to have revealed.

3. a Thai "Boss" lost face and wanted revenge, got his 2 subordinates to subdue the couple, had his way first (naturally), then allowed his lackeys to have their turns and dispose of the evidence. The Boss's family find out and are horrified, send the Boss to BKK and get others to fabricate "video" and "paper" alibis. Boss's family make secret deals with the K Tao police and with the 2 minions, whilst publicly claiming to forget how to get in contact with the relative. Then miraculously the Boss surfaces (on cue), feigning being too busy studying to look at his phone and to notice the wall-to-wall news.

4. Something completely different.

5. The police version is the gospel truth.

Number 3 makes a whole lot more sense than most of the Bull waste I've seen so far.

So the suspects are now considered hitman that murder on command as if it is their daily job ?

[umbanda]

If those "kids" enters a prison....will be dead in few days...End of the history...and the real murders and/or instigators free.

[SICHONSTEVE]

"However, both suspects insisted [to me] that they had committed the crimes," said the human-rights commissioner.

Just asking but..........does that statement not sound really strange to you ? I mean insisted ?

"He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms".

Classic!!!! Come on then people, now tell mw that these two Burmese ARE NOT rapists.

Please read this statement of fact several times if you have to - it basically say's that the police evidence is wrong as "they didn't use condoms when they raped her!!!!.

Still think that they are innocent little defenceless darlings???????????

We win the day and are fully vindicated in our beliefs!!! Well done TJT and any others in our camp!!

Oh dear, your carer popped down to the shops and forgot to put you in the padded room again.

Are you going to tell me that they NEVER raped her after they insisted they did to their own people??? No!!! thought not!!

Time to remove your blinkers and admit that you, like so many others on this forum got it so terribly wrong!!!

Anyone out there gonna admit it??

[JLCrab]

To me there are only 2 outcomes:

1. The 2 Burmese did it, or

2. If they didn't do it, they have been placed close enough to the scene and time such that at 4 AM they would have seen and/or observed commotion to an extent much more than they seem to have revealed.

3. a Thai "Boss" lost face and wanted revenge, got his 2 subordinates to subdue the couple, had his way first (naturally), then allowed his lackeys to have their turns and dispose of the evidence. The Boss's family find out and are horrified, send the Boss to BKK and get others to fabricate "video" and "paper" alibis. Boss's family make secret deals with the K Tao police and with the 2 minions, whilst publicly claiming to forget how to get in contact with the relative. Then miraculously the Boss surfaces (on cue), feigning being too busy studying to look at his phone and to notice the wall-to-wall news.

4. Something completely different.

5. The police version is the gospel truth.

Number 3 makes a whole lot more sense than most of the Bull waste I've seen so far.

So the suspects are now considered hitman that murder on command as if it is their daily job ?

3a -- That girl snubbed me -- no girl has ever snubbed me! -- I know I'll just wait until she is out on the beach at 4 AM and bash her head in then escape on the 6:08 flight and have all the airport surveillance tapes erased -- also pay off those 2 Burmese guys on the beach to never say they witnessed the whole thing. Simple.

[seahorse]

A step in the right direction. Good to see that folks were standing up against the RTP threats towards public to not question the investigation. Talkin' about power to the people! Finally the ball is rolling, some heads will follow soon.

NOW is the time for the parents to speak up and send in a British investigation team!

To me it is utterly disturbing to see that tens of thousands of complete strangers seem to care more about finding out the truth than Hannah's and David's parents! Their silence is deafening and makes me angry! Grieving time, yes - but if I were a father of one of those kids, I would be here in Thailand by now with Interpol and would turn that cesspit of an island upside down!!!!

I have agreed with most of your posts about this subject as I think they have hit the nail on the head.

However I don't agree with your criticism of Hannah and David's parents. I think that's harsh. None of us can understand what they are going through. It must be horrendous. They have only just held the funerals.

And Hannah's parents have actually issued a statement which I find to be very revealing.

“As a family we hope that the right people are found and brought to justice.”

http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/essex_hannah_witheridge_s_family_speak_of_indescribable_agony_1_3799139

The word that stands out for me is "right". That infers that they don't believe the Burmese did it.