US Ebola patient Thomas Duncan dies in hospital

[JDGRUEN]

Ever experienced projectile vomit or explosive diarrhea? I have. Easy for me to understand "aerosolized" vs "airborne", and for me, it sheds a little light on the situation. It sort of explains why even a mostly suited & gloved caregiver gets it, but even a family member does not, esp. if not in contact (maybe 'proximity' is a better word) during the final, most acute, most violent stages of the disease.

'Makes care facilities where these end-stage patients are housed sound like very dangerous places to be... Interesting to hear that EPA regulations keep hospitals from incinerating the bio-waste, and must instead container it and ship it off somewhere...

So only NOW are the heathcare workers who came in contact with Thomas Duncan being told to stay home. Sheesh.

Nina Pham (the 1st Dallas healthcare worker Duncan infected) being transferred to MD. I wonder if this has anything to do with the human trials going on with that Canadian vaccine or is instead because they've lost faith in the ability of hospitals like Texas Presbyterian to deal with Ebola... 'Wonder how many beds are availble in those few national health centers that CAN handle it. Don't be patient n+1.

Oh, and Mr. "nothing-to-do-with-the-situation" Obama currently on the tele... Not saying anything useful: vague reference to appointment of an Ebola "tsar" though - draw your own conclusions. His usual recalcitrant, self-interested self, trying (weakly) to explain why a travel ban will be counterproductive (very convoluted; something about "patients lie" and "getting more data" by letting them fly...). I reckon it'll take another infection or two in the U.S. to wake him up.

Ever experienced projectile vomit or explosive diarrhea? I have. Easy for me to understand "aerosolized" vs "airborne",

I too know what projectile vomiting and explosive diarrhea are ... 47 years ago at my Special Forces camp in Isaan in the Phu Phan while on jungle patrol I must have drank some water contaminated with the Amoeba that causes Amoebic Dysentery. I have never been sicker in my life - there was no way to even remotely stop the projectile vomiting and explosive diarrhea... I finally had to lie in the latrine concrete shower floor with water running from the shower head - just so I wouldn't have to have help in cleaning up my bed...

For the life of me I do not understand how or why Duncan's family members have not shown up with the Ebola disease yet as they reported to media sources that Duncan was vomiting everywhere and had severe diarrhea while in the apartment - all bedding was soiled. I suppose it is possible that as residents of Liberia they may have an acquired immunity as descendants of Ebola survivors. I have not seen any medical evidence of this.

Or it could be that they were lucky in the gene pool draw of having natural immunity. This would not be unheard of as it has been shown that people who lived in the era of the Black Plague never got the disease due to having a certain set of genes - the CCR5-Delta 32 Gene Mutation and that people who carry this gene later years were immune to Small Pox and in modern times these gene carriers are immune to HIV/AIDS...

it would be great if some kind of gene mutation was found in the West African population that gave some people natural immunity to Ebola. Such a discovery and study could lead to a vaccine or other medications to fight the disease... We can wish and hope.

Edited October 18, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[attrayant]

Thank you - I was not aware of the CIDRAP response... did you find this when you googled the subject?

It appeared on my Facebook news feed. I subscribe to a lot of science journals and pick up a lot of debunking that way. Edited October 18, 2014 by attrayant

[Chicog]

This order basically opened the doors for people from the Ebola ridden countries in West Africa to be granted Visas to enter the USA in large numbers...

That's very different to what I read.

Thank you - I stand corrected...

I do however find an interesting counter question... if several months ago the U.S. Government saw fit to extend visas of citizens of the Ebola Stricken West African Nations allowing them to stay in America because the situation back in their home countries is too dangerous due to Ebola to force them to return --- then why at the same time was it not deemed that these countries have such a dangerous Ebola epidemic that continued issuance of visas to other citizens of those countries is very risky - that a person like Mr. Duncan would eventually come to American.

The idea of doing one and not the other is counter intuitive. Too dangerous to send back - but not too dangerous to keep more from coming ... Wow!

This is a prime example of the illogical actions of the U.S. Government that drives Americans crazy... Since when does the American Government decide without consulting the public or even bringing up the subject that special dispensation is given to visitors from the Ebola Epidemic countries to keep them safe but Americans are still kept at risk that Ebola will make it to America - which it did. Here is where it could have been stopped but was not. All that has happened since could have been avoided

And before someone pops up - please note that under the U.S. Constitution the PEOPLE do have a right to be involved in decision making on critical issues - through their elected representatives and directly though public input. We have a Constitutional Republic and the Government is supposed to be accountable to the people - not slide things under the bureaucratic rug.

It has been said many times:

If you block direct access to the Americas, people will start trying to get there indirectly.

The CDC have said it is infinitely preferable to leave things as they are because (1) They can be controlled, and (2) because if a case is detected, they can then track all the other passengers and monitor them - something infinitely harder to do if they do not know any infected passengers actual travel arrangements.

[attrayant]

it would be great if some kind of gene mutation was found in the West African population that gave some people natural immunity to Ebola. Such a discovery and study could lead to a vaccine or other medications to fight the disease... We can wish and hope.

We're already doing this - sort of. Serum transfusions from Ebola survivors are helping to confer passive immunity to those already infected. Nina Phan got a serum transfusion from a doctor who survived Ebola (and he got a transfusion from a 14 year old boy who survived).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/14/the-decades-old-treatment-that-may-save-a-young-dallas-nurse-infected-with-ebola/

[JDGRUEN]

it would be great if some kind of gene mutation was found in the West African population that gave some people natural immunity to Ebola. Such a discovery and study could lead to a vaccine or other medications to fight the disease... We can wish and hope.

We're already doing this - sort of. Serum transfusions from Ebola survivors are helping to confer passive immunity to those already infected. Nina Phan got a serum transfusion from a doctor who survived Ebola (and he got a transfusion from a 14 year old boy who survived).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/14/the-decades-old-treatment-that-may-save-a-young-dallas-nurse-infected-with-ebola/

Yes - Sorta. It is great that this acquired immunity boost may save Nurse Pham's life. But different in significant ways..

My reference to the CCR5-Delta 32 Gene Mutation and immunity to the Black/Bubonic Plague is based on the chance occurrence of the mutate gene in well people who never had the disease nor did their genetic ancestors. This CCR5-Delta 32 Gene Mutation as I stated also confers immunity to Small Pox (it is believed) and definitely to HIV/AIDS.

I was hoping that a similar functioning gene mutation will be found in the West African population in people who have never had Ebola. While it would be very helpful in vaccine research and in developing anti-viral medicines against the Ebola virus, I do not know of any studies that show that such such gene mutation would pass on any immune function to others via blood transfusion.

In a related subject I have been reading an article on a research study proposing that the Black /Bubonic Plague was not just a disease caused by the bacteria Yersinia pestis. Rather they postulate that the Plague was two diseases the other being an Ebola like Hemorrhagic Fever. And that this Ebola like disease was the dominate disease in the Plague and killed the most people. Interesting Indeed - as it implies that the CCR5-Delta 32 Gene Mutation could confer immunity to present day Ebola.

[JDGRUEN]

President of Liberia apologizes to Dallas mayor for Ebola landing in the U.S. after first patient flew from disease-ravaged country and has infected at least two nurses

• Ellen Johnson Sirlead made apology in phonecall to Mike Rawlings
• Said she regretted Thomas Eric Duncan flying from Liberia to U.S.
• First sufferer in America then went on to infect two nurses in Dallas, Texas

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798049/president-liberia-apologizes-dallas-mayor-ebola-landing-u-s-patient-flew-disease-ravaged-country-infected-two-nurses.html#ixzz3GTSZnxyV

[Chicog]

http://www.vox.com/2014/10/13/6964633/travel-ban-airport-screening-ebola-outbreak-virus

[bkkcanuck8]

^ The thermal scans and pulling people aside and quarantining anyone with a fever has more to do with changing peoples behaviour. By inconveniencing people who fly while sick, you try to instill the mentality that you do not travel when you feel sick. It will of course require legislation to make fly or forfeit tickets illegal. It is also not a safety net as such as changing the mentality to slow down the speed of the spread of disease. The primary method of stopping a disease (like ebola) is fast contact tracing to shut down a pandemic, and that requires knowing how they entered the country, and then both forward and backward tracing movement of someone that has become known to be infected. Having people enter the country on ships and over land illegally removes some of that ability (Canada has had multiple experiences of ships full of people washing up on the shores illegally - a few caught like the multiple ships from fujian, china and from sri lanka). There are plenty of container ships and regular ships that will slip by in any given year.

I understand the argument of isolating infected areas - I just don't think it is currently warranted - though it might be someday.

I understand the argument that isolation will cause economic collapse faster and more severe which will cause people to flee like rats from a sinking ships illegally and only exasperate the problem.

I do not understand the argument that you of not closing the borders to infected areas because you have to be able to trace them for fast contact tracing and that encouraging the move to illegal transit would only make the situation worse; but then turning around and saying a completely unmonitored movement of people across some borders is not needed because no one infected would come across that border. The logic is contradictory, since for fast contact tracing you want to know where everyone coming from outside the country came from so that you have a starting point to shut down a chain of infections.

There will eventually be a disease that cannot be controlled, and only slowed down..... which will have much more devastating effects in the west.... but unless the US continues its complete incompetence in regards to this outbreak... it is not this one. The only mechanism we have is to slow this last type down while we work towards a solution, and air traffic in general is the worst invention that we ever made in regards to this last more dangerous infection type.

The infection rate for ebola is between 1.5 to 2. I believe SARS was around 4, flus etc. I believe are around 8 to 16. We almost lost containment of SARS (very close). Flus etc. are almost always not able to be contained.

[F430murci]

More disturbing than Ebola is the commentary

. . .

Here is a sampling of those provocative comments, plus a little myth busting, clarifying and reality checking from Ebola experts from around the world.

"If you bring two doctors who happen to have that specialty (Ebola) into a room, one will say, 'No, it will never become airborne, but it could mutate so it would be harder to discover.' Another doctor will say, 'If it continues to mutate at the rate it's mutating, and we go from 20,000 infected to 100,000, the population might allow it to mutate and become airborne, and then it will be a serious problem.' I don't know who is right." -- Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told CNN.

Ebola isn't transmitted through the air. It is transmitted through direct contact by bodily fluids with an Ebola-infected person showing symptoms of the disease.

A mutation such as the kind Dempsey describes "would be exceedingly rare" in one epidemic, said Edward C. Holmes of Marie Bashir Institute for Infectious Diseases and Biosecurity at the University of Sydney.

"It happens over evolutionary time, millions of years," Holmes said. "This idea that it takes one or two of those mutations and 'Wham!' you pick up airborne transmission, that is way too simplistic."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/17/us/ebola-provocative-quotes/

[hawker9000]

This order basically opened the doors for people from the Ebola ridden countries in West Africa to be granted Visas to enter the USA in large numbers...

That's very different to what I read.

Thank you - I stand corrected...

I do however find an interesting counter question... if several months ago the U.S. Government saw fit to extend visas of citizens of the Ebola Stricken West African Nations allowing them to stay in America because the situation back in their home countries is too dangerous due to Ebola to force them to return --- then why at the same time was it not deemed that these countries have such a dangerous Ebola epidemic that continued issuance of visas to other citizens of those countries is very risky - that a person like Mr. Duncan would eventually come to American.

The idea of doing one and not the other is counter intuitive. Too dangerous to send back - but not too dangerous to keep more from coming ... Wow!

This is a prime example of the illogical actions of the U.S. Government that drives Americans crazy... Since when does the American Government decide without consulting the public or even bringing up the subject that special dispensation is given to visitors from the Ebola Epidemic countries to keep them safe but Americans are still kept at risk that Ebola will make it to America - which it did. Here is where it could have been stopped but was not. All that has happened since could have been avoided

And before someone pops up - please note that under the U.S. Constitution the PEOPLE do have a right to be involved in decision making on critical issues - through their elected representatives and directly though public input. We have a Constitutional Republic and the Government is supposed to be accountable to the people - not slide things under the bureaucratic rug.

It has been said many times:

If you block direct access to the Americas, people will start trying to get there indirectly.

The CDC have said it is infinitely preferable to leave things as they are because (1) They can be controlled, and (2) because if a case is detected, they can then track all the other passengers and monitor them - something infinitely harder to do if they do not know any infected passengers actual travel arrangements.

"(1) They can be controlled"

OK then, if you're going to control it, CONTROL IT!! Releasing them into the general population is NOT controlling it!! Ex. Thomas Duncan. 21-day (or whatever is necessary) quarantine with a blood test at the end of it if non-symptomatic, at the traveler's own expense, no exceptions. ALL travelers from Ebola-affected countries, currently Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea, MUST submit. We've HAD the wake-up call - what more is it going to take?! Oh, I know; more infections. So stupid. So political. So "Obama".

[MJP]

Ebola outbreak could be 'definitive humanitarian disaster of our generation', warns Oxfam

Ebola is poised to become the “definitive humanitarian disaster of our generation", Oxfam has warned, with more troops, funding and medical aid urgently needed to tackle the outbreak.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/ebola-outbreak-could-be-definitive-humanitarian-disaster-of-our-generation-9803822.html

From readers comments . . .

Ebola outbreak could be 'definitive humanitarian disaster of our generation'. But then again the odds are that it is no more than a passing media/quango fad. Ebola is still flat lining after 10 months, Ebola is still one of the least contagious diseases on the planet, and Ebola is still largely confined to one chaotic country - Liberia.

The fear mongers have become some exasperated at Ebola's stubborn refusal to kill more people more quickly that they have now resorted to sci-fi style speculation and predictions rather than the actual figures - which remain miniscule.

I would have more respect for them and their appeals if they didn't resort to wild scare mongering and a wild exaggeration of the figures.

Edited October 18, 2014 by MJP

[ukrules]

Thank you - I stand corrected...

I do however find an interesting counter question... if several months ago the U.S. Government saw fit to extend visas of citizens of the Ebola Stricken West African Nations allowing them to stay in America because the situation back in their home countries is too dangerous due to Ebola to force them to return --- then why at the same time was it not deemed that these countries have such a dangerous Ebola epidemic that continued issuance of visas to other citizens of those countries is very risky - that a person like Mr. Duncan would eventually come to American.

The idea of doing one and not the other is counter intuitive. Too dangerous to send back - but not too dangerous to keep more from coming ... Wow!

This is a prime example of the illogical actions of the U.S. Government that drives Americans crazy... Since when does the American Government decide without consulting the public or even bringing up the subject that special dispensation is given to visitors from the Ebola Epidemic countries to keep them safe but Americans are still kept at risk that Ebola will make it to America - which it did. Here is where it could have been stopped but was not. All that has happened since could have been avoided

And before someone pops up - please note that under the U.S. Constitution the PEOPLE do have a right to be involved in decision making on critical issues - through their elected representatives and directly though public input. We have a Constitutional Republic and the Government is supposed to be accountable to the people - not slide things under the bureaucratic rug.

It has been said many times:

If you block direct access to the Americas, people will start trying to get there indirectly.

The CDC have said it is infinitely preferable to leave things as they are because (1) They can be controlled, and (2) because if a case is detected, they can then track all the other passengers and monitor them - something infinitely harder to do if they do not know any infected passengers actual travel arrangements.

"(1) They can be controlled"

OK then, if you're going to control it, CONTROL IT!! Releasing them into the general population is NOT controlling it!! Ex. Thomas Duncan. 21-day (or whatever is necessary) quarantine with a blood test at the end of it if non-symptomatic, at the traveler's own expense, no exceptions. ALL travelers from Ebola-affected countries, currently Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea, MUST submit. We've HAD the wake-up call - what more is it going to take?! Oh, I know; more infections. So stupid. So political. So "Obama".

You appear to have accidentally missed the US and Spain off the list of Ebola affected countries. Nobody knows how many others in the US or Spain have been infected at this stage, maybe it's none, maybe it's hundreds.

It would be an over reaction to ban all flights into and out of any country when such a tiny little proportion of the population have been affected.

There's only been a few thousand cases worldwide, it's far from an epidemic at this stage.

Do you really think President Obama is going to be the president who bans Africans from entering the US ?

[Scott]

A post with a link to a commercial site has been removed along with a reply.

[JDGRUEN]

Thank you - I stand corrected...

I do however find an interesting counter question... if several months ago the U.S. Government saw fit to extend visas of citizens of the Ebola Stricken West African Nations allowing them to stay in America because the situation back in their home countries is too dangerous due to Ebola to force them to return --- then why at the same time was it not deemed that these countries have such a dangerous Ebola epidemic that continued issuance of visas to other citizens of those countries is very risky - that a person like Mr. Duncan would eventually come to American.

The idea of doing one and not the other is counter intuitive. Too dangerous to send back - but not too dangerous to keep more from coming ... Wow!

This is a prime example of the illogical actions of the U.S. Government that drives Americans crazy... Since when does the American Government decide without consulting the public or even bringing up the subject that special dispensation is given to visitors from the Ebola Epidemic countries to keep them safe but Americans are still kept at risk that Ebola will make it to America - which it did. Here is where it could have been stopped but was not. All that has happened since could have been avoided

And before someone pops up - please note that under the U.S. Constitution the PEOPLE do have a right to be involved in decision making on critical issues - through their elected representatives and directly though public input. We have a Constitutional Republic and the Government is supposed to be accountable to the people - not slide things under the bureaucratic rug.

It has been said many times:

If you block direct access to the Americas, people will start trying to get there indirectly.

The CDC have said it is infinitely preferable to leave things as they are because (1) They can be controlled, and (2) because if a case is detected, they can then track all the other passengers and monitor them - something infinitely harder to do if they do not know any infected passengers actual travel arrangements.

"(1) They can be controlled"

OK then, if you're going to control it, CONTROL IT!! Releasing them into the general population is NOT controlling it!! Ex. Thomas Duncan. 21-day (or whatever is necessary) quarantine with a blood test at the end of it if non-symptomatic, at the traveler's own expense, no exceptions. ALL travelers from Ebola-affected countries, currently Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea, MUST submit. We've HAD the wake-up call - what more is it going to take?! Oh, I know; more infections. So stupid. So political. So "Obama".

You appear to have accidentally missed the US and Spain off the list of Ebola affected countries. Nobody knows how many others in the US or Spain have been infected at this stage, maybe it's none, maybe it's hundreds.

It would be an over reaction to ban all flights into and out of any country when such a tiny little proportion of the population have been affected.

There's only been a few thousand cases worldwide, it's far from an epidemic at this stage.

Do you really think President Obama is going to be the president who bans Africans from entering the US ?

I am not for banning flights. It is not the correct answer. My words were above were about visas and this is how they must be stopped from going to America. The U.S. Government needs to stop issuance of entrance visas to citizens of Sierra Leone, Guinea and Liberia and soon. There is only a handful of these West Africans that have any pressing need to be in the U.S. and visiting relatives is not a pressing need when compared to the cost and disruption that came about because of one man coming to Dallas with Ebola festering and then erupting. Mr. Duncan arrived in the U.S via a connecting flight to Brussels, Belgium, so cutting off flights from these West African Nations would do no good... Therefore, the American Government must stop the issuance of Visas and actually all visas since the US. Government cannot be trusted to judiciously protect the American public by allowing some and not others. A recent poll shows that a super majority of Americans want to stop people who live in or have been in these Ebola afflicted countries to be stopped from coming to America. The top job of the American president is to protect America and Americans - so yes obama must cut them off and soon. I was just about to post a article about Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas becoming a Ghost Town. The cost to date to the Hospital and from resultant law suits will bankrupt this hospital ... It is not a guess it is going to happen. So - are we supposed to wait until another Ebola infected patient arrives in St. Louis or Boston, or San Francisco and infects people and bankrupts another hospital? People will not go to a hospital that has had Ebola patients in it - and no one can make them. The people of the United States have a right to demand stopping Visa issuance via their elected representatives and directly via protests... Both of which are happening now and gaining momentum.

As you can see from this article - link below ... the U.K. has stopped Gambia-Bird from flying from the U.K. to Sierra Leone.... They should just cancel Visas not flights - especially aid flights into these countries but... ?!?!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/13/ebola-uk-cancels-resumption-direct-flights-sierra-leone-gambia-bird

The first direct flights to resume from the UK to Sierra Leone have been cancelled after the British government revoked Gambia Bird’s recently granted permit because of fears over Ebola.

At some point very soon the pressure will cause the obama Administration to do something ... hopefully the right thing.

Oh and if the number of Ebola patients in America and in Spain increases and verified, I wouldn't be surprised if other countries cut of visas to American and Spaniards. I was going to Texas in March - my home area in Dallas - Forth Worth for a couple of months to check on my Motor Home - but a few clothes that actually fit me - stock up on a few things I cannot get here in Thailand and come back. But it is very doubtful I will do that unless Ebola is fully quelled in America by February with several months of no new cases.

It doesn't matter if it is two or three new cases of Ebola in America in the next few months.. the cost and disruption will be disastrous. I have made the point before that with 33 Senate slots coming up for election in early November and quite a number of House seats, Ebola has pushed the existing momentum to elect Republicans to replace Democrats and Ebola will push it over the top. obama will be a lame duck president by mid November with no legislative house being in Democrat control. In America under this kind of situation all that has to happen is for the House and the Senate to pass a bill stopping people from the Ebola ridden countries from going to America - insert that bill into a much larger more complex bill having items in it that obama must sign into law and it will become law.. That is the way America works for better or worse. I see it as better if this happens.

Edited October 19, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[Credo]

If you aren't going to allow for people to obtain a visa, then there is little use in allowing flights. Even if they don't need a visa, or already have, or are a US citizen, they may still have been exposed to Ebola.

[JDGRUEN]

If you aren't going to allow for people to obtain a visa, then there is little use in allowing flights. Even if they don't need a visa, or already have, or are a US citizen, they may still have been exposed to Ebola.

Everyone has a travel history in their passports. Stopping visas issued to citizens of those Ebola afflicted countries - should just be a part of an over all program. And as I posted on the Ebola/Heathrow thread ... first link below ... this process and procedure should be done at the International Airports in America that receive incoming flights from EU countries / cities and from any other nation that has connecting flights from Sierra Leone, Guinea and Liberia and other Western Africa Nations to screen people who may have been in these countries within the past 30 days... It can be done...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/768270-ebola-crisis-huge-disruption-expected-at-heathrow-as-screening-begins/page-3#entry8536842

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/768270-ebola-crisis-huge-disruption-expected-at-heathrow-as-screening-begins/page-2#entry8533358

Ebola is serious business - deadly business - and if people's lives and businesses have to be changed - then that is what is required. In the face of such a serious epidemic potential a person's 'wants' becomes secondary to the safety of the public at large.

Edited October 19, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[hawker9000]

Thank you - I stand corrected...

I do however find an interesting counter question... if several months ago the U.S. Government saw fit to extend visas of citizens of the Ebola Stricken West African Nations allowing them to stay in America because the situation back in their home countries is too dangerous due to Ebola to force them to return --- then why at the same time was it not deemed that these countries have such a dangerous Ebola epidemic that continued issuance of visas to other citizens of those countries is very risky - that a person like Mr. Duncan would eventually come to American.

The idea of doing one and not the other is counter intuitive. Too dangerous to send back - but not too dangerous to keep more from coming ... Wow!

This is a prime example of the illogical actions of the U.S. Government that drives Americans crazy... Since when does the American Government decide without consulting the public or even bringing up the subject that special dispensation is given to visitors from the Ebola Epidemic countries to keep them safe but Americans are still kept at risk that Ebola will make it to America - which it did. Here is where it could have been stopped but was not. All that has happened since could have been avoided

And before someone pops up - please note that under the U.S. Constitution the PEOPLE do have a right to be involved in decision making on critical issues - through their elected representatives and directly though public input. We have a Constitutional Republic and the Government is supposed to be accountable to the people - not slide things under the bureaucratic rug.

It has been said many times:

If you block direct access to the Americas, people will start trying to get there indirectly.

The CDC have said it is infinitely preferable to leave things as they are because (1) They can be controlled, and (2) because if a case is detected, they can then track all the other passengers and monitor them - something infinitely harder to do if they do not know any infected passengers actual travel arrangements.

"(1) They can be controlled"

OK then, if you're going to control it, CONTROL IT!! Releasing them into the general population is NOT controlling it!! Ex. Thomas Duncan. 21-day (or whatever is necessary) quarantine with a blood test at the end of it if non-symptomatic, at the traveler's own expense, no exceptions. ALL travelers from Ebola-affected countries, currently Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea, MUST submit. We've HAD the wake-up call - what more is it going to take?! Oh, I know; more infections. So stupid. So political. So "Obama".

You appear to have accidentally missed the US and Spain off the list of Ebola affected countries. Nobody knows how many others in the US or Spain have been infected at this stage, maybe it's none, maybe it's hundreds.

It would be an over reaction to ban all flights into and out of any country when such a tiny little proportion of the population have been affected.

There's only been a few thousand cases worldwide, it's far from an epidemic at this stage.

Do you really think President Obama is going to be the president who bans Africans from entering the US ?

EXACTLY the head-in-the-sand approach we DON'T need. You want to wait until it's irreversible to take preventive action. A very short-sighted and deadly approach.

http://www.vox.com/cards/ebola-facts-you-need-to-know/its-the-worst-ebola-outbreak-on-record

I realize there are a few different projections around - absolutely no point in quibbling over a hundred here or there when the WHO (you know, THAT obscure old outfit...who cares what they have to say about it, right?) projects 20,000 infected in November. Other estimates say 1.4 MILLION by January. Still other estimates say that for every four cases being reported, there are six unreported (people turned away from hospitals & hiding in their homes). But let's wait for it. No point being proactive - it's just scaremongering. And when infections are popping up like dandelions come February & March, people like you will just fall strangely silent while the rest of us are wondering how we could have let it get so bad when the warning signs were so darn clear.

I actually think Obama will enact a ban. He's a slow learner, but just needs to be beat over the head with a few more infections in the U.S. Just one who turns out to be from one of the affected countries in W. Africa oughta' do it - though I'm sure this new "Ebola czar" will do his level best to cover that up since that's what he's good at and hand-picked to do.

BTW - Liberia says it needs 85,000 body bags ("tiny number", right?)...

Edited October 19, 2014 by hawker9000

[Choctastic]

How much of this latest 'pandemic' in waiting is pure bovine excrement? How many more vaccine drives and attempts to establish global systems of medical control will it take before people stop being taken in? The CDC even now claims that H1N1 infected 60 million Americans. That is 1 in 5. When the labs weren't confirming enough cases, the government said.. stop counting and just declare anyone with flu as having H1N1. The definition of a pandemic was changed to enable the treaty-bound purchase of billions of dangerous and unproven vaccines.

Now here we go again, with iteration number 7? 8? Bird Flu, Swine Flu, West Nile virus, SARS...

I've found the cure for this latest globalist and media hobgoblin, terrorising the world.

SWITCH OFF THE TV.

[hawker9000]

How much of this latest 'pandemic' in waiting is pure bovine excrement? How many more vaccine drives and attempts to establish global systems of medical control will it take before people stop being taken in? The CDC even now claims that H1N1 infected 60 million Americans. That is 1 in 5. When the labs weren't confirming enough cases, the government said.. stop counting and just declare anyone with flu as having H1N1. The definition of a pandemic was changed to enable the treaty-bound purchase of billions of dangerous and unproven vaccines. Now here we go again, with iteration number 7? 8? Bird Flu, Swine Flu, West Nile virus, SARS... I've found the cure for this latest globalist and media hobgoblin, terrorising the world. SWITCH OFF THE TV.

So you're planning a vacation in Monrovia then... Enjoy your trip, and we'll look forward to you reporting back on your findings. Or maybe you could just volunteer to carry bedpans - and handle the non-bovine excrement - in the infected wards where those two nurses from Dallas are being presently cared for. Without protective suit, of course. You can then tell us firsthand it's all just a big put-on. No? Sure?? Hmm - I think I smell some bovine excrement alright.

(So, BTW - where DID Thomas Duncan catch whatever it was that killed him?)

[Credo]

I'll leave it up to the gov't and not to the citizens in general to decide on a ban on visas from those countries. Here's the problem, I have access to more than one passport. I have not used any other than my current one, but at one point I could have legally had 3.

So the idea that it would be simple to track people gets a little bit tricky, especially if people don't want to be tracked.

[JDGRUEN]

I'll leave it up to the gov't and not to the citizens in general to decide on a ban on visas from those countries. Here's the problem, I have access to more than one passport. I have not used any other than my current one, but at one point I could have legally had 3.

So the idea that it would be simple to track people gets a little bit tricky, especially if people don't want to be tracked.

If proper screening is set up as I suggested, the numbers of people who could evade it by having benefit of multiple passports would be a very small number of people in the overall. Plus in most countries when presenting a passport to leave a country your passport is stamped with an exit stamp. The IOs in most countries look for an exit stamp in the passport that is being presented for entry into the next country. If one switches on the plane to another passport the exit stamp will be missing and is most often grounds for denial of entry into the country traveled to... This issue has been discussed many times on the TVF immigration forum. I have read of only one or two instances where a person was allowed entry with no exit stamp in his / her passport and on one of those both passports were examined. On the contrary there are posts that depict denial of entry for this very reason.

Again - the number of people having dual passports and are able to switch them to disguise their previous travel would be minuscule when compared to the total number of travelers. If such a screening system as I described was put into use in America it would be coupled with sanctions and penalties for attempting to evade or disguise one's recent travel in the past 30 days. All in all a good screening system would have a very low 'failure to detect' rate of a fraction of a percent in my estimation... which is extraordinarily better than the near open door policy that has been in effect and much better than just temperature screening alone.

Also - America is blessed with a Constitution and Bill of Rights... under these documents mere citizens do have say so as to how the government is run via our elected representatives and with the right of freedom of speech to demonstrate, petition and protest to make our points of view known. Some try to suppress our freedoms and liberties by imposing heavy doses of Political Correctness and by other nefarious means. But our Constitution works and It is one of the greatest sets of freedoms and liberties devised and put in place to protect citizens in recent history. Our government at times ignores our rights more than they should but the pendulum does swing back - history shows it to be so.

In short, had a screening effort that I have described before and the cutting off visa issuance been put into effect months ago when it was decided to grant extensions of stay to people from the Ebola stricken West African Countries because it was too dangerous to send them back - there would have never been a Mr. Duncan entering with an emerging case of Ebola and the resultant infections of two nurses and the outrageous spin off effect of costs, fear and confusion.

Americans expect and have a right not to even be exposed to a West African disease - because it was never necessary - when have a right to protect ourselves and to keep problems out of our country ... Our Government used to do that sort of thing... but the current one has failed and doesn't seem to even want to.

In the end, we Americans will have a say so about this Ebola fiasco at the voting booth and elsewhere. November elections are coming up ...we shall see.

[Chicog]

In the end, we Americans will have a say so about this Ebola fiasco at the voting booth and elsewhere. November elections are coming up ...we shall see.

There's nothing to stop them approving a Surgeon General now, so why wait?

[Chicog]

A voice of reason from.... Fox News?! (Obviously not the three muppets on "Fox & Friends").

[JDGRUEN]

How much of this latest 'pandemic' in waiting is pure bovine excrement? How many more vaccine drives and attempts to establish global systems of medical control will it take before people stop being taken in? The CDC even now claims that H1N1 infected 60 million Americans. That is 1 in 5. When the labs weren't confirming enough cases, the government said.. stop counting and just declare anyone with flu as having H1N1. The definition of a pandemic was changed to enable the treaty-bound purchase of billions of dangerous and unproven vaccines. Now here we go again, with iteration number 7? 8? Bird Flu, Swine Flu, West Nile virus, SARS... I've found the cure for this latest globalist and media hobgoblin, terrorising the world. SWITCH OFF THE TV.

So you're planning a vacation in Monrovia then... Enjoy your trip, and we'll look forward to you reporting back on your findings. Or maybe you could just volunteer to carry bedpans - and handle the non-bovine excrement - in the infected wards where those two nurses from Dallas are being presently cared for. Without protective suit, of course. You can then tell us firsthand it's all just a big put-on. No? Sure?? Hmm - I think I smell some bovine excrement alright.

(So, BTW - where DID Thomas Duncan catch whatever it was that killed him?)

n

Note the words .... 'vastly underestimate' and 'Never before in recorded history' ... and some think Ebola is a walk in the park and a fantasy... Sure...

World Health Organization... Situation assessments: Ebola virus disease

To date, the virus has infected 6242 people and killed 2909 of them. These figures, which are far greater than those from all previous Ebola outbreaks combined, are known by WHO to vastly underestimate the true scale of the epidemic. The Ebola epidemic ravaging parts of West Africa is the most severe acute public health emergency seen in modern times. Never before in recorded history has a biosafety level four pathogen infected so many people so quickly, over such a broad geographical area, for so long.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/26-september-2014/en/

[attrayant]

In the end, we Americans will have a say so about this Ebola fiasco at the voting booth and elsewhere. November elections are coming up ...we shall see.

I actually find that scarier than ebola.

[Credo]

I'll leave it up to the gov't and not to the citizens in general to decide on a ban on visas from those countries. Here's the problem, I have access to more than one passport. I have not used any other than my current one, but at one point I could have legally had 3.

So the idea that it would be simple to track people gets a little bit tricky, especially if people don't want to be tracked.

If proper screening is set up as I suggested, the numbers of people who could evade it by having benefit of multiple passports would be a very small number of people in the overall. Plus in most countries when presenting a passport to leave a country your passport is stamped with an exit stamp. The IOs in most countries look for an exit stamp in the passport that is being presented for entry into the next country. If one switches on the plane to another passport the exit stamp will be missing and is most often grounds for denial of entry into the country traveled to... This issue has been discussed many times on the TVF immigration forum. I have read of only one or two instances where a person was allowed entry with no exit stamp in his / her passport and on one of those both passports were examined. On the contrary there are posts that depict denial of entry for this very reason.

Again - the number of people having dual passports and are able to switch them to disguise their previous travel would be minuscule when compared to the total number of travelers. If such a screening system as I described was put into use in America it would be coupled with sanctions and penalties for attempting to evade or disguise one's recent travel in the past 30 days. All in all a good screening system would have a very low 'failure to detect' rate of a fraction of a percent in my estimation... which is extraordinarily better than the near open door policy that has been in effect and much better than just temperature screening alone.

Also - America is blessed with a Constitution and Bill of Rights... under these documents mere citizens do have say so as to how the government is run via our elected representatives and with the right of freedom of speech to demonstrate, petition and protest to make our points of view known. Some try to suppress our freedoms and liberties by imposing heavy doses of Political Correctness and by other nefarious means. But our Constitution works and It is one of the greatest sets of freedoms and liberties devised and put in place to protect citizens in recent history. Our government at times ignores our rights more than they should but the pendulum does swing back - history shows it to be so.

In short, had a screening effort that I have described before and the cutting off visa issuance been put into effect months ago when it was decided to grant extensions of stay to people from the Ebola stricken West African Countries because it was too dangerous to send them back - there would have never been a Mr. Duncan entering with an emerging case of Ebola and the resultant infections of two nurses and the outrageous spin off effect of costs, fear and confusion.

Americans expect and have a right not to even be exposed to a West African disease - because it was never necessary - when have a right to protect ourselves and to keep problems out of our country ... Our Government used to do that sort of thing... but the current one has failed and doesn't seem to even want to.

In the end, we Americans will have a say so about this Ebola fiasco at the voting booth and elsewhere. November elections are coming up ...we shall see.

Oh, my there are a lot of 'if's' in that scenario. So an American volunteer who leaves an Ebola country arrives in the US, he is going to be denied entry?

Oh, and you can leave a country on one passport and arrive in another on a different passport. If you have dual Thai/US citizenship, you leave the US on the US passport and upon arrival in Thailand you present the Thai passport.

[Chicog]

How much of this latest 'pandemic' in waiting is pure bovine excrement? How many more vaccine drives and attempts to establish global systems of medical control will it take before people stop being taken in? The CDC even now claims that H1N1 infected 60 million Americans. That is 1 in 5. When the labs weren't confirming enough cases, the government said.. stop counting and just declare anyone with flu as having H1N1. The definition of a pandemic was changed to enable the treaty-bound purchase of billions of dangerous and unproven vaccines. Now here we go again, with iteration number 7? 8? Bird Flu, Swine Flu, West Nile virus, SARS... I've found the cure for this latest globalist and media hobgoblin, terrorising the world. SWITCH OFF THE TV.

So you're planning a vacation in Monrovia then... Enjoy your trip, and we'll look forward to you reporting back on your findings. Or maybe you could just volunteer to carry bedpans - and handle the non-bovine excrement - in the infected wards where those two nurses from Dallas are being presently cared for. Without protective suit, of course. You can then tell us firsthand it's all just a big put-on. No? Sure?? Hmm - I think I smell some bovine excrement alright.

(So, BTW - where DID Thomas Duncan catch whatever it was that killed him?)

n

Note the words .... 'vastly underestimate' and 'Never before in recorded history' ... and some think Ebola is a walk in the park and a fantasy... Sure...

World Health Organization... Situation assessments: Ebola virus disease

To date, the virus has infected 6242 people and killed 2909 of them. These figures, which are far greater than those from all previous Ebola outbreaks combined, are known by WHO to vastly underestimate the true scale of the epidemic. The Ebola epidemic ravaging parts of West Africa is the most severe acute public health emergency seen in modern times. Never before in recorded history has a biosafety level four pathogen infected so many people so quickly, over such a broad geographical area, for so long.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/26-september-2014/en/

Unfortunately it's a fact of life that as populations and population densities increase, the likelihood of virus outbreaks increase. So this is hardly surprising.

But the fact still is that this is not an epidemic anywhere but in three seriously underdeveloped countries with little infrastructure and poorly developed medical services.

[Choctastic]

Unfortunately it's a fact of life that as populations and population densities increase, the likelihood of virus outbreaks increase.

Thank you for regurgitating the meme you have been conditioned to believe. Unfortunately it's a fact of today's life that as Mencken so aptly stated, the public is being menaced by an endless series of hobgoblins, none of them real. How many more scams need to be foisted upon you, before you wake up? Ebola is just another trojan horse, masking the real objectives.

Dress up some soldiers in protective clothing, hire a few 'state actors' to play victim and family and the emotions of the TV audience can be played like a violin. These made-for-TV 'psyops' are good telly but are they real?

What is the true objective? Oil in Nigeria, Diamonds in Sierra Leone, AFRICOM establishing a stronger presence in the region. Note the initial U.S. response. Not civilian medical teams but U.S. military 'boots on the ground'. More than 3000 of them.

What other benefits are there? How about the establishment of a global medical system, overriding national boundaries, where mandatory vaccines will be forced on millions. Another nail in the coffin of national sovereignty and personal freedom.

What else is necessary for this latest iteration of 'The Great Swine Flu Caper' to work? You need victims. This is where the troops come in. Force vaccinations on the local population. There have already been many examples of African and Indian communities being killed or seriously damaged by vaccines. Enough will be injured by the latest vaccine drive for the powers that be to say... 'See. There IS a problem'.

Any objective examination of the 2009 'Flying Pig' flu should raise alarm bells with this one. The CDC's claims that 60 million Americans were infected by H1N1 is so ridiculous it should challenge anyone's beliefs.

Never mind. Keep drinking from the 'manufacturing consent' cup and roll up your sleeve.

[JDGRUEN]

I'll leave it up to the gov't and not to the citizens in general to decide on a ban on visas from those countries. Here's the problem, I have access to more than one passport. I have not used any other than my current one, but at one point I could have legally had 3.

So the idea that it would be simple to track people gets a little bit tricky, especially if people don't want to be tracked.

If proper screening is set up as I suggested, the numbers of people who could evade it by having benefit of multiple passports would be a very small number of people in the overall. Plus in most countries when presenting a passport to leave a country your passport is stamped with an exit stamp. The IOs in most countries look for an exit stamp in the passport that is being presented for entry into the next country. If one switches on the plane to another passport the exit stamp will be missing and is most often grounds for denial of entry into the country traveled to... This issue has been discussed many times on the TVF immigration forum. I have read of only one or two instances where a person was allowed entry with no exit stamp in his / her passport and on one of those both passports were examined. On the contrary there are posts that depict denial of entry for this very reason.

Again - the number of people having dual passports and are able to switch them to disguise their previous travel would be minuscule when compared to the total number of travelers. If such a screening system as I described was put into use in America it would be coupled with sanctions and penalties for attempting to evade or disguise one's recent travel in the past 30 days. All in all a good screening system would have a very low 'failure to detect' rate of a fraction of a percent in my estimation... which is extraordinarily better than the near open door policy that has been in effect and much better than just temperature screening alone.

Also - America is blessed with a Constitution and Bill of Rights... under these documents mere citizens do have say so as to how the government is run via our elected representatives and with the right of freedom of speech to demonstrate, petition and protest to make our points of view known. Some try to suppress our freedoms and liberties by imposing heavy doses of Political Correctness and by other nefarious means. But our Constitution works and It is one of the greatest sets of freedoms and liberties devised and put in place to protect citizens in recent history. Our government at times ignores our rights more than they should but the pendulum does swing back - history shows it to be so.

In short, had a screening effort that I have described before and the cutting off visa issuance been put into effect months ago when it was decided to grant extensions of stay to people from the Ebola stricken West African Countries because it was too dangerous to send them back - there would have never been a Mr. Duncan entering with an emerging case of Ebola and the resultant infections of two nurses and the outrageous spin off effect of costs, fear and confusion.

Americans expect and have a right not to even be exposed to a West African disease - because it was never necessary - when have a right to protect ourselves and to keep problems out of our country ... Our Government used to do that sort of thing... but the current one has failed and doesn't seem to even want to.

In the end, we Americans will have a say so about this Ebola fiasco at the voting booth and elsewhere. November elections are coming up ...we shall see.

Oh, my there are a lot of 'if's' in that scenario. So an American volunteer who leaves an Ebola country arrives in the US, he is going to be denied entry?

Oh, and you can leave a country on one passport and arrive in another on a different passport. If you have dual Thai/US citizenship, you leave the US on the US passport and upon arrival in Thailand you present the Thai passport.

You can go argue that dual passport question with ubonjoe and others in the Immigration forum... You can in some cases get away with it ... I said as much... but it cannot be counted on - Stamp out -- Stamp in .... same passport.

And of course under my suggested plan a U.S. Air worker would be allowed to return - I wrote an article - do I have to write a book? It has already been suggested in the media that returning aid workers may have to go into quarantine... It is being discussed for the American troops going there too... The top General said recently American troops who may catch Ebola will be treated in the country where they are stationed ... Hey Thanks CIC!

[MJP]

Canada to ship Ebola vaccine to WHO

The jab can completely protect animals from a fatal dose of the Ebola virus. However, its safety and effectiveness in humans is unknown.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29680393