US Ebola patient Thomas Duncan dies in hospital

[NanLaew]

Someone please help me with this but there are fairly large numbers of West Africans along Lower Sukhumvit and they are always grabbing onto farangs arms in the hopes of closing a deal.

Now they are all sweaty and the farangs are all sweaty.

What assurance does anyone have that they haven't just come from an ebola infected community or a flat mate has not just arrived in country from an ebola infected country?

And then when you consider the number of massage parlors where clients lay on bedding all sweaty and massage ladies make much physical contact ( even the legit establishments), is it just my imagination or is Thailand ripe for a major epidemic?

Now that a nurse in Spain has been diagnosed with ebola and an Australian medical worker has been quarantined on arrival in Australia, I think that the health authorities need to get one well ahead of the 'honesty' system for people to self-declare any travel from west Africa (like Thailand has). This is also way beyond the infra-red temperature scanning cameras that were deployed at certain airports after the SARS and Bird Flu outbreaks. Ebola is way too dangerous for anyone to assume that it cannot just pop up anywhere in the world now.

The guy in America chose to deceive the authorities and not declare where he had traveled from an infected area let alone that he had been in contact with a victim of ebola. There's a very good chance that the law enforcement guy that visited the guys apartment is also infected.

The Spanish nurse was more a victim of half-arsed hospital 'precautions' when they were cleaning up the ward where an ebola victim died. She apparently may have touched her face with her gloved (contaminated) hand.

At least the Aussie nurse turned herself in shortly after arriving in the country. She was fine at the start of her travel home but developed a low-order fever so did the right thing.

I would recommend the UN through the WHO enforce that all passengers departing from or transiting through countries where it is already an epidemic and the bordering west African countries, need to have a mandatory red page stuck in the passport, much like the adhesive, one-page visa stickers that a lot of countries use that can easily red-flag a traveler at risk. Also stick it one on the cover with the same glue that US apartment operators use to sticker the windows of cars that have no resident parking permit (sticks like sh!t to a blanket!).

The next step would be the total lock down on travel originating there and the easiest way to enforce that is for commercial aircraft to stop flying in. These planes usually fly on regional routes but there's a possibility of an aircraft being swapped onto (say) a south American or Asian route. If this virus has even the slightest chance of getting spread beyond the well publicised routes (the Spanish authorities humanely destroyed the Spanish nurses dog so there seems to be the some mixture of myth and mystery in all this 'well defined' path of infection) the only realistic option is to stop it at the source.

In response to CC's particular concerns; is there really anything you cannot do without down Sukhumvit Soi 3 and 4 right now?

Edited October 9, 2014 by NanLaew

[Chicog]

Well, I hope the deputy simply has the flu or ate something bad. If he has ebola, he has already come in contact with many people that day and days after. Now THAT worries the heck outta me.

I will download I am Legend to feed my paranoia.

I think Contagion is the better 'outbreak movie'

Good list here - http://www.ranker.com/list/best-movies-with-disease-outbreaks/ranker-film

Aaaahhh so it was a virus. I always wondered about those Pontypool folk.

[Chicog]

He's going to be the lamest lame duck prez in American history; his own party has disowned him in the midterm elections next month.

Yes, it will be interesting if he asks congress to pass some Ebola legislation without throwing in a few tax cuts, won't it?

[NanLaew]

He's going to be the lamest lame duck prez in American history; his own party has disowned him in the midterm elections next month.

Yes, it will be interesting if he asks congress to pass some Ebola legislation without throwing in a few tax cuts, won't it?

As entirely plausible as a certain political party blocking any Ebola-related legislation unless The Affordable Care Act is rescinded.

Edited October 9, 2014 by NanLaew

[ClutchClark]

Now that a nurse in Spain has been diagnosed with ebola and an Australian medical worker has been quarantined on arrival in Australia, I think that the health authorities need to get one well ahead of the 'honesty' system for people to self-declare any travel from west Africa (like Thailand has). This is also way beyond the infra-red temperature scanning cameras that were deployed at certain airports after the SARS and Bird Flu outbreaks. Ebola is way too dangerous for anyone to assume that it cannot just pop up anywhere in the world now.

The guy in America chose to deceive the authorities and not declare where he had traveled from an infected area let alone that he had been in contact with a victim of ebola. There's a very good chance that the law enforcement guy that visited the guys apartment is also infected.

The Spanish nurse was more a victim of half-arsed hospital 'precautions' when they were cleaning up the ward where an ebola victim died. She apparently may have touched her face with her gloved (contaminated) hand.

At least the Aussie nurse turned herself in shortly after arriving in the country. She was fine at the start of her travel home but developed a low-order fever so did the right thing.

I would recommend the UN through the WHO enforce that all passengers departing from or transiting through countries where it is already an epidemic and the bordering west African countries, need to have a mandatory red page stuck in the passport, much like the adhesive, one-page visa stickers that a lot of countries use that can easily red-flag a traveler at risk. Also stick it one on the cover with the same glue that US apartment operators use to sticker the windows of cars that have no resident parking permit (sticks like sh!t to a blanket!).

The next step would be the total lock down on travel originating there and the easiest way to enforce that is for commercial aircraft to stop flying in. These planes usually fly on regional routes but there's a possibility of an aircraft being swapped onto (say) a south American or Asian route. If this virus has even the slightest chance of getting spread beyond the well publicised routes (the Spanish authorities humanely destroyed the Spanish nurses dog so there seems to be the some mixture of myth and mystery in all this 'well defined' path of infection) the only realistic option is to stop it at the source.

In response to CC's particular concerns; is there really anything you cannot do without down Sukhumvit Soi 3 and 4 right now?

I ran out of "Likes" so thank you for a thorough response.

And I don't spend time on Lower Sukhumvit. Its a truly depressing environment.

[Showbags]

It would be good for the rest of the world if they closed america.......wonder if the mexicans will keep coming

Edited October 9, 2014 by Showbags

[JDGRUEN]

REPLY TO POST #36

How did Dallas PD and FD Fail? Basically no one took charge to secure Duncan's apartment, order sealing it off, order a real HAZMAT team to clean it up, etc. Communication was next to non existent ... Much of what was not done was done later - days later... The Fire Dept. is in charge of HAZMAT cleanup... totally dropped the ball in the initial stages.

The police should have cordoned off every possible contaminated place... until properly cleaned and decontaminated - but didn't.

The example of government dealing with the first case of Ebola in America - the one in Dallas was a total fiasco... not an example of government dealing with Ebola...

- The hospital where the Ebola man went totally mishandled the situation, misdiagnosis - sent home with wrong drug, he went back after violently vomiting and serious diarrhea in the family apartment - contaminating everything - including the outside sidewalk and grass. A nurse made note of the origin of the patient - but no one seemed to think anything of it ... It would seem that any Ebola awareness effort by government (if there was any) was a failure.

The hospital was not initially decontaminated ... little was done to cordon off areas where Duncan had been and where the public would follow.

- The 911 Ambulance was not properly decontaminated for several days - but reused, The crew was not told of their exposure for about 36 hours or more.

- No Hazmat teams were used in clean up - initially,.. only one lone guy with a water pressure machine spraying the apartment sidewall and grass - totally unprotected, a food delivery man delivers food to the apartment - handing to someone at the door.

- The family was not quarantined in a properly isolated containment facility -- not initially formally ordered to stay home -- a formal order came after one family member when to a market because no one in government made any effort to properly set up a care system for the family. They are still just sitting in an apartment... They should be in a county facility.

- An idiot local low level judge is photographed taking is assistants into the apartment - to serve orders I suppose. Done totally unprotected. Turns out he was a County Judge - actually the Administrator of the County Commissioners Court - not a real judge... Later the judge took the family in his car to another apartment.. NONE of this should have happened - the police should have done all that with help from the FD

- Bedding and other items that were vomited on and had diarrhea spewed on were not taken from the apartment - confusion as to who was responsible and in getting a hazardous waste transport permit. A private clean up crew - hazmat qualified was turned away because of a bureaucratic SNAFU.. Not permit to move hazardous waste. NO PERMIT - WOW!

- All in all at up to a 100 people were unnecessarily exposed to the Ebola man to greater or lesser degrees because of a total lack of a plan and any real effort to make an effective plan after the fact and enforce it ...

[ClutchClark]

^^^^I appreciate the response but you can't really blame Emergency Services for not taking these steps after he returned home the first time since he had not been diagnosed with Ebola, right?

And that continued to be the status when ES arrived the second time and he was vomiting and defecating. It is only after his second visit to the hospital and diagnosis was made that abatement procedures could be started.

As for turning away a contracted hazmat crew for a snafu, that is simply called erring on the side of caution and is a far better approach than having allowed them to enter, right?

The failure was with the infected person first and foremost for not telling people he had handled an infected person before arriving stateside and secondly the hospital reporting procedure that allowed for a entrance nurse "note" to not be predominantly displayed on the patient file, thereby allowing the patient history to not be seen by future staff.

I didn't know about the judge--obviously this was a serious breach of protocol.

Edited October 9, 2014 by ClutchClark

[ukrules]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

" US President Barack Obama, who said his death showed "we don't have a lot of margin for error. If we don't follow protocols and procedures that are put in place, then we're putting folks in our communities at risk". "

Preparing the public for new draconian security measures, just like Bush's Patriot Act put in place after 911. Get ready for more intrusions into your life, America.

How many plane suicides in the US occurred after 9/11 - only one, a small aircraft in Texas flown by a disgruntled Texan at a federal building to target the IRS.

So the new laws work.

You will never win with rational argument, it's designed that way.

[JDGRUEN]

^^^^I appreciate the response but you can't really blame Emergency Services for not taking these steps after he returned home the first time since he had not been diagnosed with Ebola, right?

And that continued to be the status when ES arrived the second time and he was vomiting and defecating. It is only after his second visit to the hospital and diagnosis was made that abatement procedures could be started.

As for turning away a contracted hazmat crew for a snafu, that is simply called erring on the side of caution and is a far better approach than having allowed them to enter, right?

The failure was with the infected person first and foremost for not telling people he had handled an infected person before arriving stateside and secondly the hospital reporting procedure that allowed for a entrance nurse "note" to not be predominantly displayed on the patient file, thereby allowing the patient history to not be seen by future staff.

I didn't know about the judge--obviously this was a serious breach of protocol.

I don't agree with some things you said and assumed about my post... I didn't clarify it but I was speaking almost entirely about the second time. A lack of a permit with something like Ebola involved is something that an official should have just overridden ... Ebola is not a sewage line break or diesel fuel on a road... it kills people.. And it should not have been a private clean up crew --- a city or county crew would have the authority to just do it. The Dallas police and County Sheriff's department should have controlled all access - then no stupid judge trudging in... Local apartment workers were the first clean up with a power washer... The police and fire department should have strung big yellow tape around the whole area, closed off - family removed and doors locked. Family moved to a secure county facility. And yes I do agree - Duncan most likely knew of his exposure and should have made it clear... creating a chain of events that could very well kill other people.

I add - Emergency Services ... I believe what happened the second time Duncan had to be taken to the hospital - everything about what went on was in my opinion -- AN EMERGENCY... so it is their responsibility.

Edited October 9, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[ClutchClark]

^^^^I appreciate the response but you can't really blame Emergency Services for not taking these steps after he returned home the first time since he had not been diagnosed with Ebola, right?

And that continued to be the status when ES arrived the second time and he was vomiting and defecating. It is only after his second visit to the hospital and diagnosis was made that abatement procedures could be started.

As for turning away a contracted hazmat crew for a snafu, that is simply called erring on the side of caution and is a far better approach than having allowed them to enter, right?

The failure was with the infected person first and foremost for not telling people he had handled an infected person before arriving stateside and secondly the hospital reporting procedure that allowed for a entrance nurse "note" to not be predominantly displayed on the patient file, thereby allowing the patient history to not be seen by future staff.

I didn't know about the judge--obviously this was a serious breach of protocol.

I don't agree with some things you said and assumed about my post... I didn't clarify it but I was speaking almost entirely about the second time. A lack of a permit with something like Ebola involved is something that an official should have just overridden ... Ebola is not a sewage line break or diesel fuel on a road... it kills people.. And it should not have been a private clean up crew --- a city or county crew would have the authority to just do it. The Dallas police and County Sheriff's department should have controlled all access - then no stupid judge trudging in... Local apartment workers were the first clean up with a power washer... The police and fire department should have strung big yellow tape around the whole area, closed off - family removed and doors locked. Family moved to a secure county facility. And yes I do agree - Duncan most likely knew of his exposure and should have made it clear... creating a chain of events that could very well kill other people.

I add - Emergency Services ... I believe what happened the second time Duncan had to be taken to the hospital - everything about what went on was in my opinion -- AN EMERGENCY... so it is their responsibility.

I am not aware of city or county crews that are qualified in this type of medical hazmat nor that have the equipment or training and I was a volunteer fireman for over two decades, albeit retired 20 years ago. It would not be unreasonable for a privately contracted hazmat service to have the proper equipment for multiple types of hazmat events.

[zydeco]

^^^^I appreciate the response but you can't really blame Emergency Services for not taking these steps after he returned home the first time since he had not been diagnosed with Ebola, right?

And that continued to be the status when ES arrived the second time and he was vomiting and defecating. It is only after his second visit to the hospital and diagnosis was made that abatement procedures could be started.

As for turning away a contracted hazmat crew for a snafu, that is simply called erring on the side of caution and is a far better approach than having allowed them to enter, right?

The failure was with the infected person first and foremost for not telling people he had handled an infected person before arriving stateside and secondly the hospital reporting procedure that allowed for a entrance nurse "note" to not be predominantly displayed on the patient file, thereby allowing the patient history to not be seen by future staff.

I didn't know about the judge--obviously this was a serious breach of protocol.

I don't agree with some things you said and assumed about my post... I didn't clarify it but I was speaking almost entirely about the second time. A lack of a permit with something like Ebola involved is something that an official should have just overridden ... Ebola is not a sewage line break or diesel fuel on a road... it kills people.. And it should not have been a private clean up crew --- a city or county crew would have the authority to just do it. The Dallas police and County Sheriff's department should have controlled all access - then no stupid judge trudging in... Local apartment workers were the first clean up with a power washer... The police and fire department should have strung big yellow tape around the whole area, closed off - family removed and doors locked. Family moved to a secure county facility. And yes I do agree - Duncan most likely knew of his exposure and should have made it clear... creating a chain of events that could very well kill other people.

I add - Emergency Services ... I believe what happened the second time Duncan had to be taken to the hospital - everything about what went on was in my opinion -- AN EMERGENCY... so it is their responsibility.

I am not aware of city or county crews that are qualified in this type of medical hazmat nor that have the equipment or training and I was a volunteer fireman for over two decades, albeit retired 20 years ago. It would not be unreasonable for a privately contracted hazmat service to have the proper equipment for multiple types of hazmat events.

Since 9/11 billions of dollars have been pumped into preparing state and local agencies for just such emergencies. For years, especially in the DFW area, there were highly publicized emergency drills. When I lived there until six years ago, state, county, and city agencies and politicians constantly crowed about how prepared they were. And the first time out of the gate, they fall flat on their face. It's all PR.

[JDGRUEN]

^^^^I appreciate the response but you can't really blame Emergency Services for not taking these steps after he returned home the first time since he had not been diagnosed with Ebola, right?

And that continued to be the status when ES arrived the second time and he was vomiting and defecating. It is only after his second visit to the hospital and diagnosis was made that abatement procedures could be started.

As for turning away a contracted hazmat crew for a snafu, that is simply called erring on the side of caution and is a far better approach than having allowed them to enter, right?

The failure was with the infected person first and foremost for not telling people he had handled an infected person before arriving stateside and secondly the hospital reporting procedure that allowed for a entrance nurse "note" to not be predominantly displayed on the patient file, thereby allowing the patient history to not be seen by future staff.

I didn't know about the judge--obviously this was a serious breach of protocol.

I don't agree with some things you said and assumed about my post... I didn't clarify it but I was speaking almost entirely about the second time. A lack of a permit with something like Ebola involved is something that an official should have just overridden ... Ebola is not a sewage line break or diesel fuel on a road... it kills people.. And it should not have been a private clean up crew --- a city or county crew would have the authority to just do it. The Dallas police and County Sheriff's department should have controlled all access - then no stupid judge trudging in... Local apartment workers were the first clean up with a power washer... The police and fire department should have strung big yellow tape around the whole area, closed off - family removed and doors locked. Family moved to a secure county facility. And yes I do agree - Duncan most likely knew of his exposure and should have made it clear... creating a chain of events that could very well kill other people.

I add - Emergency Services ... I believe what happened the second time Duncan had to be taken to the hospital - everything about what went on was in my opinion -- AN EMERGENCY... so it is their responsibility.

I am not aware of city or county crews that are qualified in this type of medical hazmat nor that have the equipment or training and I was a volunteer fireman for over two decades, albeit retired 20 years ago. It would not be unreasonable for a privately contracted hazmat service to have the proper equipment for multiple types of hazmat events.

Since 9/11 billions of dollars have been pumped into preparing state and local agencies for just such emergencies. For years, especially in the DFW area, there were highly publicized emergency drills. When I lived there until six years ago, state, county, and city agencies and politicians constantly crowed about how prepared they were. And the first time out of the gate, they fall flat on their face. It's all PR.

I add in my observations... I lived in Dallas - Forth Worth for 35 years up until January 2014... I have seen countless news items on TV covering the local city and county emergency services crews doing HAZMAT drills and many that were real including road spills of all nature, fuel, milk, truck load of chickens smashed all over the highway, industrial accidents, etc. and they were not private companies.

[ClutchClark]

I am not aware of city or county crews that are qualified in this type of medical hazmat nor that have the equipment or training and I was a volunteer fireman for over two decades, albeit retired 20 years ago. It would not be unreasonable for a privately contracted hazmat service to have the proper equipment for multiple types of hazmat events.

Since 9/11 billions of dollars have been pumped into preparing state and local agencies for just such emergencies. For years, especially in the DFW area, there were highly publicized emergency drills. When I lived there until six years ago, state, county, and city agencies and politicians constantly crowed about how prepared they were. And the first time out of the gate, they fall flat on their face. It's all PR.

I add in my observations... I lived in Dallas - Forth Worth for 35 years up until January 2014... I have seen countless news items on TV covering the local city and county emergency services crews doing HAZMAT drills and many that were real including road spills of all nature, fuel, milk, truck load of chickens smashed all over the highway, industrial accidents, etc. and they were not private companies.

The ebola virus requires a Level A HazMat response. It is the highest category of responses and it several times higher than a diesel spill or a truck loaded with chickens.

Again, a Level A Bio-Hazard (medical hazmat) response is not a tanker of spilled milk.

To suggest that the Fire Department must be the agency to handle the clean-up is simply incorrect.

Their responsibility is immediate containment and removal of injured persons. Think of it in terms of a house fire--they arrive, they attempt to remove any people trapped and injured, they put out the fire. They do not stay and remove the charred embers or materials.

Same for a chemical spill at a chemical plant--they handle the immediate incident but the clean-up effort is left to the CHEMTEAM unit of the facility.

Edited October 9, 2014 by ClutchClark

[ClutchClark]

^^^^I appreciate the response but you can't really blame Emergency Services for not taking these steps after he returned home the first time since he had not been diagnosed with Ebola, right?

And that continued to be the status when ES arrived the second time and he was vomiting and defecating. It is only after his second visit to the hospital and diagnosis was made that abatement procedures could be started.

As for turning away a contracted hazmat crew for a snafu, that is simply called erring on the side of caution and is a far better approach than having allowed them to enter, right?

The failure was with the infected person first and foremost for not telling people he had handled an infected person before arriving stateside and secondly the hospital reporting procedure that allowed for a entrance nurse "note" to not be predominantly displayed on the patient file, thereby allowing the patient history to not be seen by future staff.

I didn't know about the judge--obviously this was a serious breach of protocol.

I don't agree with some things you said and assumed about my post... I didn't clarify it but I was speaking almost entirely about the second time. A lack of a permit with something like Ebola involved is something that an official should have just overridden ... Ebola is not a sewage line break or diesel fuel on a road... it kills people.. And it should not have been a private clean up crew --- a city or county crew would have the authority to just do it. The Dallas police and County Sheriff's department should have controlled all access - then no stupid judge trudging in... Local apartment workers were the first clean up with a power washer... The police and fire department should have strung big yellow tape around the whole area, closed off - family removed and doors locked. Family moved to a secure county facility. And yes I do agree - Duncan most likely knew of his exposure and should have made it clear... creating a chain of events that could very well kill other people.

I add - Emergency Services ... I believe what happened the second time Duncan had to be taken to the hospital - everything about what went on was in my opinion -- AN EMERGENCY... so it is their responsibility.

I am not aware of city or county crews that are qualified in this type of medical hazmat nor that have the equipment or training and I was a volunteer fireman for over two decades, albeit retired 20 years ago. It would not be unreasonable for a privately contracted hazmat service to have the proper equipment for multiple types of hazmat events.

Since 9/11 billions of dollars have been pumped into preparing state and local agencies for just such emergencies. For years, especially in the DFW area, there were highly publicized emergency drills. When I lived there until six years ago, state, county, and city agencies and politicians constantly crowed about how prepared they were. And the first time out of the gate, they fall flat on their face. It's all PR.

Again, they did not fall flat on their face.

Are you suggesting that with no known cases of Ebola present in the US that Emergency Services should have been responding to every call in full Level A Bio-Hazard gear "just in case" ? That every traffic stop by police should be considered at risk for an infected person? That every response made by Paramedics should be in full HazMat gear?

Hopefully you have more sense than that.

[JDGRUEN]

@ClutchClark... Clarification.

I believe I am using terminology differently than you... I have been using the term Emergency Services in a broad sense... PD, FD and EMS... I suspect you may be speaking only of EMS (Emergency Medical Services) - maybe not.

It is coming back to me now ... while riding down the road on my motorbike... In Dallas - Fort Worth and I believe most of Texas HAZMAT duty is performed by the Fire Departments as they have the suits, hoses, trucks, personnel, trained in dealing with chemicals, hazard suits... etc.

So - I was very surprised and disappointed when I read about a private company doing it... and be turned away because of an asinine permit ... you get permits to haul of a vacuumed up chemical spill ... Contaminated bedding, clothes, towels - contaminated with Ebola - have to be secured ASAP or the apartment evacuated - locked and sealed with the family taken by public health order to a confinement center - a humane one of course...

My assessment of what caused a major foul up in Dallas was the word Ebola... if some one had said a Anthrax powder terrorism event or extremely hazardous chemical spill - caustic ammonia or whatever... I believe the response would have been quick and correct. But the word Ebola was not ringing any bells. Ebola is in Africa not Texas and it is not something they prepared for.., unfortunately.

The Dallas Police Chief and Fire Chief should have co-coordinated and brought in the County Sheriff. They would have had Ebola been something they were briefed on the way they likely have been about weaponized powered anthrax... but alas they didn't.

No real emergency response at first coming from the PD and FD ... no one saying I am in charge - let's do this... it just rolled out in slow motion with people doing ad-hoc things like order the apartment maintenance crew to get the pressure washer out and use it.

Forced quarantine can be used it is part of the Texas public health law... but it wasn't done...

But you can bet after bringing on such as embarrassment the future such events will be handled -- maybe overkill just to prove they are in charge.

Being a resident of DFW I followed events closely - reading dozens of article and reports - nothing much of anything was done appropriately or timely or thoroughly... or with authority. Stuff just happened...

Edited October 9, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[F430murci]

First responders may be first at an accident scene and are trained to take certain actions to stop or remediate spills, but responsible for hazardous biological clean up????????? You do realize how busy first responders are, don't you? They lack both the time, resources and training to do what some are suggesting.

Do you think first responders have hours or days free to hang out at a biological hazard site to perform clean up? Are they to ignore a house fire, car wreck, gun shot, heart attack or nursing home resident needing assistance while they hang out cleaning up crap and vomit, scrub floors, wash carpets or scrub walls? Are they supposed to load the biological or hazardous material on to the fire trucks and take it to the fire station?

Even something as simple as clean up after a gun shot death is done by third party contractors trained in and approved for biological clean up and remediation.

Blaming first responders is just plain stupid.

Edited October 9, 2014 by F430murci

[F430murci]

@ClutchClark... Clarification.

I believe I am using terminology differently than you... I have been using the term Emergency Services in a broad sense... PD, FD and EMS... I suspect you may be speaking only of EMS (Emergency Medical Services) - maybe not.

It is coming back to me now ... while riding down the road on my motorbike... In Dallas - Fort Worth and I believe most of Texas HAZMAT duty is performed by the Fire Departments as they have the suits, hoses, trucks, personnel, trained in dealing with chemicals, hazard suits... etc.

So - I was very surprised and disappointed when I read about a private company doing it... and be turned away because of an asinine permit ... you get permits to haul of a vacuumed up chemical spill ... Contaminated bedding, clothes, towels - contaminated with Ebola - have to be secured ASAP or the apartment evacuated - locked and sealed with the family taken by public health order to a confinement center - a humane one of course...

My assessment of what caused a major foul up in Dallas was the word Ebola... if some one had said a Anthrax powder terrorism event or extremely hazardous chemical spill - caustic ammonia or whatever... I believe the response would have been quick and correct. But the word Ebola was not ringing any bells. Ebola is in Africa not Texas and it is not something they prepared for.., unfortunately.

The Dallas Police Chief and Fire Chief should have co-coordinated and brought in the County Sheriff. They would have had Ebola been something they were briefed on the way they likely have been about weaponized powered anthrax... but alas they didn't.

No real emergency response at first coming from the PD and FD ... no one saying I am in charge - let's do this... it just rolled out in slow motion with people doing ad-hoc things like order the apartment maintenance crew to get the pressure washer out and use it.

Forced quarantine can be used it is part of the Texas public health law... but it wasn't done...

But you can bet after bringing on such as embarrassment the future such events will be handled -- maybe overkill just to prove they are in charge.

Being a resident of DFW I followed events closely - reading dozens of article and reports - nothing much of anything was done appropriately or timely or thoroughly... or with authority. Stuff just happened...

I had to investigate a small commuter size plane crash recently for the aircraft manufacturer immediately after it went down. The Commission on Environmental Quality was running the show and a third-party contractor was on site for biological and environmental clean up during after body parts were picked up. In fact, the third party contractor is still monitoring and performing remediation 6 months later, albeit in the form of materials to absorb remaining fluids and checking site.

Perhaps blame TEQC, CDC or State health department for not being out quicker, not the PD, FD or first responders who already do a very difficult job and are under appreciated. Some are just always so quick and have such an internal need to point the finger and cast aspersions.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[zydeco]

@ClutchClark... Clarification.

I believe I am using terminology differently than you... I have been using the term Emergency Services in a broad sense... PD, FD and EMS... I suspect you may be speaking only of EMS (Emergency Medical Services) - maybe not.

It is coming back to me now ... while riding down the road on my motorbike... In Dallas - Fort Worth and I believe most of Texas HAZMAT duty is performed by the Fire Departments as they have the suits, hoses, trucks, personnel, trained in dealing with chemicals, hazard suits... etc.

So - I was very surprised and disappointed when I read about a private company doing it... and be turned away because of an asinine permit ... you get permits to haul of a vacuumed up chemical spill ... Contaminated bedding, clothes, towels - contaminated with Ebola - have to be secured ASAP or the apartment evacuated - locked and sealed with the family taken by public health order to a confinement center - a humane one of course...

My assessment of what caused a major foul up in Dallas was the word Ebola... if some one had said a Anthrax powder terrorism event or extremely hazardous chemical spill - caustic ammonia or whatever... I believe the response would have been quick and correct. But the word Ebola was not ringing any bells. Ebola is in Africa not Texas and it is not something they prepared for.., unfortunately.

The Dallas Police Chief and Fire Chief should have co-coordinated and brought in the County Sheriff. They would have had Ebola been something they were briefed on the way they likely have been about weaponized powered anthrax... but alas they didn't.

No real emergency response at first coming from the PD and FD ... no one saying I am in charge - let's do this... it just rolled out in slow motion with people doing ad-hoc things like order the apartment maintenance crew to get the pressure washer out and use it.

Forced quarantine can be used it is part of the Texas public health law... but it wasn't done...

But you can bet after bringing on such as embarrassment the future such events will be handled -- maybe overkill just to prove they are in charge.

Being a resident of DFW I followed events closely - reading dozens of article and reports - nothing much of anything was done appropriately or timely or thoroughly... or with authority. Stuff just happened...

Too many comments from people who do not know what goes on in that particular hospital, in Dallas, or in the county. And no knowledge at all of the corrupt, incompetent politicians and bribery prone officials who have stepped in to make the mess even bigger. This is one the reasons that I always try to go to local news outlets when major stories like this break. Not because they are more inherently "truthful," but because it's easier to read between the lines. Public information agencies in the US have become a lot like Pravda or Novosti in the old Soviet Union. You need to learn how to read what is not in the text. We are all Foucault and Derrida, now.

[zydeco]

I don't agree with some things you said and assumed about my post... I didn't clarify it but I was speaking almost entirely about the second time. A lack of a permit with something like Ebola involved is something that an official should have just overridden ... Ebola is not a sewage line break or diesel fuel on a road... it kills people.. And it should not have been a private clean up crew --- a city or county crew would have the authority to just do it. The Dallas police and County Sheriff's department should have controlled all access - then no stupid judge trudging in... Local apartment workers were the first clean up with a power washer... The police and fire department should have strung big yellow tape around the whole area, closed off - family removed and doors locked. Family moved to a secure county facility. And yes I do agree - Duncan most likely knew of his exposure and should have made it clear... creating a chain of events that could very well kill other people.

I add - Emergency Services ... I believe what happened the second time Duncan had to be taken to the hospital - everything about what went on was in my opinion -- AN EMERGENCY... so it is their responsibility.

I am not aware of city or county crews that are qualified in this type of medical hazmat nor that have the equipment or training and I was a volunteer fireman for over two decades, albeit retired 20 years ago. It would not be unreasonable for a privately contracted hazmat service to have the proper equipment for multiple types of hazmat events.

Since 9/11 billions of dollars have been pumped into preparing state and local agencies for just such emergencies. For years, especially in the DFW area, there were highly publicized emergency drills. When I lived there until six years ago, state, county, and city agencies and politicians constantly crowed about how prepared they were. And the first time out of the gate, they fall flat on their face. It's all PR.

Again, they did not fall flat on their face.

Are you suggesting that with no known cases of Ebola present in the US that Emergency Services should have been responding to every call in full Level A Bio-Hazard gear "just in case" ? That every traffic stop by police should be considered at risk for an infected person? That every response made by Paramedics should be in full HazMat gear?

Hopefully you have more sense than that.

Straw man argument. Try again.

[Scott]

Stay on topic.

[F430murci]

@ClutchClark... Clarification.

I believe I am using terminology differently than you... I have been using the term Emergency Services in a broad sense... PD, FD and EMS... I suspect you may be speaking only of EMS (Emergency Medical Services) - maybe not.

It is coming back to me now ... while riding down the road on my motorbike... In Dallas - Fort Worth and I believe most of Texas HAZMAT duty is performed by the Fire Departments as they have the suits, hoses, trucks, personnel, trained in dealing with chemicals, hazard suits... etc.

So - I was very surprised and disappointed when I read about a private company doing it... and be turned away because of an asinine permit ... you get permits to haul of a vacuumed up chemical spill ... Contaminated bedding, clothes, towels - contaminated with Ebola - have to be secured ASAP or the apartment evacuated - locked and sealed with the family taken by public health order to a confinement center - a humane one of course...

My assessment of what caused a major foul up in Dallas was the word Ebola... if some one had said a Anthrax powder terrorism event or extremely hazardous chemical spill - caustic ammonia or whatever... I believe the response would have been quick and correct. But the word Ebola was not ringing any bells. Ebola is in Africa not Texas and it is not something they prepared for.., unfortunately.

The Dallas Police Chief and Fire Chief should have co-coordinated and brought in the County Sheriff. They would have had Ebola been something they were briefed on the way they likely have been about weaponized powered anthrax... but alas they didn't.

No real emergency response at first coming from the PD and FD ... no one saying I am in charge - let's do this... it just rolled out in slow motion with people doing ad-hoc things like order the apartment maintenance crew to get the pressure washer out and use it.

Forced quarantine can be used it is part of the Texas public health law... but it wasn't done...

But you can bet after bringing on such as embarrassment the future such events will be handled -- maybe overkill just to prove they are in charge.

Being a resident of DFW I followed events closely - reading dozens of article and reports - nothing much of anything was done appropriately or timely or thoroughly... or with authority. Stuff just happened...

Too many comments from people who do not know what goes on in that particular hospital, in Dallas, or in the county. And no knowledge at all of the corrupt, incompetent politicians and bribery prone officials who have stepped in to make the mess even bigger. This is one the reasons that I always try to go to local news outlets when major stories like this break. Not because they are more inherently "truthful," but because it's easier to read between the lines. Public information agencies in the US have become a lot like Pravda or Novosti in the old Soviet Union. You need to learn how to read what is not in the text. We are all Foucault and Derrida, now.

WTH are you talking about. News and media here is harder on and more critical of CDC, Obama, Perry, Texas and the hospital than those on here. US media is not afraid to bash or speak out against anyone, especially related to this subject.

[Asiantravel]

@ClutchClark... Clarification.

I believe I am using terminology differently than you... I have been using the term Emergency Services in a broad sense... PD, FD and EMS... I suspect you may be speaking only of EMS (Emergency Medical Services) - maybe not.

It is coming back to me now ... while riding down the road on my motorbike... In Dallas - Fort Worth and I believe most of Texas HAZMAT duty is performed by the Fire Departments as they have the suits, hoses, trucks, personnel, trained in dealing with chemicals, hazard suits... etc.

So - I was very surprised and disappointed when I read about a private company doing it... and be turned away because of an asinine permit ... you get permits to haul of a vacuumed up chemical spill ... Contaminated bedding, clothes, towels - contaminated with Ebola - have to be secured ASAP or the apartment evacuated - locked and sealed with the family taken by public health order to a confinement center - a humane one of course...

My assessment of what caused a major foul up in Dallas was the word Ebola... if some one had said a Anthrax powder terrorism event or extremely hazardous chemical spill - caustic ammonia or whatever... I believe the response would have been quick and correct. But the word Ebola was not ringing any bells. Ebola is in Africa not Texas and it is not something they prepared for.., unfortunately.

The Dallas Police Chief and Fire Chief should have co-coordinated and brought in the County Sheriff. They would have had Ebola been something they were briefed on the way they likely have been about weaponized powered anthrax... but alas they didn't.

No real emergency response at first coming from the PD and FD ... no one saying I am in charge - let's do this... it just rolled out in slow motion with people doing ad-hoc things like order the apartment maintenance crew to get the pressure washer out and use it.

Forced quarantine can be used it is part of the Texas public health law... but it wasn't done...

But you can bet after bringing on such as embarrassment the future such events will be handled -- maybe overkill just to prove they are in charge.

Being a resident of DFW I followed events closely - reading dozens of article and reports - nothing much of anything was done appropriately or timely or thoroughly... or with authority. Stuff just happened...

Too many comments from people who do not know what goes on in that particular hospital, in Dallas, or in the county. And no knowledge at all of the corrupt, incompetent politicians and bribery prone officials who have stepped in to make the mess even bigger. This is one the reasons that I always try to go to local news outlets when major stories like this break. Not because they are more inherently "truthful," but because it's easier to read between the lines. Public information agencies in the US have become a lot like Pravda or Novosti in the old Soviet Union. You need to learn how to read what is not in the text. We are all Foucault and Derrida, now.

I was watching Bill O'Reilly on Fox News ( this morning in Thailand ) and I was quite surprised how he aggressively accused the government of not telling the whole truth. Here is the transcript

Now, I don't think we being told the whole truth about this, Doctor. And I'll point to the NBC freelance cameraman currently being treated in Nebraska who was in Liberia and has ebola and they flew him back here for treatment. They're telling us now that Mr. Mukpo, you're seeing here, contracted the disease by washing a car where a guy with ebola died in the car.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/2014/10/09/ebola-patient-dallas-dies

[hawker9000]

It would be good for the rest of the world if they closed america.......wonder if the mexicans will keep coming

Yes, and maybe America should just forego the 3000 troops being sent to West Africa as aid workers (as much as I'm sure they're looking forward to it...), not to mention the medical & logistical support and the half billion (or more) it's all going to cost.

America haters just never rest.

[ClutchClark]

It would be good for the rest of the world if they closed america.......wonder if the mexicans will keep coming

Yes, and maybe America should just forego the 3000 troops being sent to West Africa as aid workers (as much as I'm sure they're looking forward to it...), not to mention the medical & logistical support and the half billion (or more) it's all going to cost.

America haters just never rest.

An excellent retort.

However, as an American, I wish we would not send troops if they will actually be standing guard because some crazed African is going to not follow direction and, then what, out soldier will be forced to shoot?

Now if we are going over there strictly to install containment facilities, fencing or other "engineered" structures I support the decision.

[ClutchClark]

Since 9/11 billions of dollars have been pumped into preparing state and local agencies for just such emergencies. For years, especially in the DFW area, there were highly publicized emergency drills. When I lived there until six years ago, state, county, and city agencies and politicians constantly crowed about how prepared they were. And the first time out of the gate, they fall flat on their face. It's all PR.

Again, they did not fall flat on their face.

Are you suggesting that with no known cases of Ebola present in the US that Emergency Services should have been responding to every call in full Level A Bio-Hazard gear "just in case" ? That every traffic stop by police should be considered at risk for an infected person? That every response made by Paramedics should be in full HazMat gear?

Hopefully you have more sense than that.

Straw man argument. Try again.

Not hardly. Simply asking for your opinion on how they could have done better. You see, when you complain about "falling flat on their face", then you really should be prepared to provide examples of how they should have done it.

Thats all I am asking.

Edited October 9, 2014 by ClutchClark

[Bwanatickey]

So he died, well he did die in a Christian hospital, even though he knew he was ill , when he left Africa, he still chose to lie on his entry card to receive top medical treatment in the advanced U.S.A. medi care system,

and he still died.

[Loptr]

I was watching Bill O'Reilly on Fox News ( this morning in Thailand ) and I was quite surprised how he aggressively accused the government of not telling the whole truth. Here is the transcript

Now, I don't think we being told the whole truth about this, Doctor. And I'll point to the NBC freelance cameraman currently being treated in Nebraska who was in Liberia and has ebola and they flew him back here for treatment. They're telling us now that Mr. Mukpo, you're seeing here, contracted the disease by washing a car where a guy with ebola died in the car.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/2014/10/09/ebola-patient-dallas-dies

Is it any wonder? American's trust in their government has never been lower, ever... With good reason I might add...

The current administration scrapped a CDC plan for quarantine regulations concerning ebola in 2010...

http://dailycaller.com/2014/10/03/president-ebola-in-2010-obama-administration-scrapped-cdc-quarantine-regulations-aimed-at-ebola/

Edited October 9, 2014 by Loptr

[hawker9000]

It would be good for the rest of the world if they closed america.......wonder if the mexicans will keep coming

Yes, and maybe America should just forego the 3000 troops being sent to West Africa as aid workers (as much as I'm sure they're looking forward to it...), not to mention the medical & logistical support and the half billion (or more) it's all going to cost.

America haters just never rest.

An excellent retort.

However, as an American, I wish we would not send troops if they will actually be standing guard because some crazed African is going to not follow direction and, then what, out soldier will be forced to shoot?

Now if we are going over there strictly to install containment facilities, fencing or other "engineered" structures I support the decision.

That's a good question. I've been trying to stay abreast of it, and know that at least PART of what they'll be doing involves the construction of containment facilities you mention, but don't know whether or not some will be performing guard duties, or how many of the 3000 (actually, I'm hearing maybe as many as 4000 now) are actual medical aid workers. I DO know I would be very sad to see any of them returning to the states having contracted Ebola over there in the service of their country. How many OTHER countries from the "rest of the [showbags] world" are sending their own personnel & putting them at risk over there...