Suspects in Koh Tao backpacker murders retract confessions, says official

[Number 3]

The court is not on an island.

Koh Samui court is not on an island?

Wow!

Tis indeed an island.

Same island where two lads are in the cells one lad is a hostage in a safe house and one prosecutor is in process of reading the 850 page script for the upcoming dramedy briefing the judge as he illustrates his need to be respected as more "thorough" than the rest of the participants. My what an island it is !

Court will be in Surat Thani.

Shan't be at that JD

For if it were it would be with the prosecutor of Surat

[jabis]

Lawyers want DNA tested by UK police

NHRC sending a team to investigate crime scene as suspects retract confession

THE MYANMAR lawyers of the two men charged with the Koh Tao murders of two British tourists have asked Thailand's National Human Rights Commission and the Myanmar Embassy in the Kingdom to push for British police to conduct independent DNA tests in the case, as they believe their clients are innocent.

Another turn in the case (The nation / http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Lawyers-want-DNA-tested-by-UK-police-30245295.html )

[Number 3]

Lawyers want DNA tested by UK police NHRC sending a team to investigate crime scene as suspects retract confession

THE MYANMAR lawyers of the two men charged with the Koh Tao murders of two British tourists have asked Thailand's National Human Rights Commission and the Myanmar Embassy in the Kingdom to push for British police to conduct independent DNA tests in the case, as they believe their clients are innocent.

Another turn in the case (The nation / http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Lawyers-want-DNA-tested-by-UK-police-30245295.html )

Turn in the RIGHT direction. Nhrc stepped up quite early as the stench of this case became apparent. They set up an anon hotline and email for reporting of leads or facts which I believe gave them enough information to send a delegation to the island of Samui. Again -people power assisted here too. Let us not underestimate people power if we hold fast and stay on it people !

Let us all pray we continue to move forward .....

[Dumbfounded]

Just my hypothetical thinking.

General hears there's been a horrible double murder on the island.

He comes out with the statement no thai could have done this.

Then someone whispers in his ear. err... it might have been a privileged thai on the island.

Oh shit, get the army involved and don't let the RTP pin it on a thai, I can't lose face now or I won't get elected in the future

There's just too much inconsistencies in everything we have heard so far, with nearly every piece of evidence being disputed between the police and the rest of us.

Maybe Sean Mcanna was involved, maybe he was threatened that if he didn't help with the killings he'd be killed himself.

How is it possible that the hi-so sons can refuse DNA testing yet the Burmese don't have that same right.

I believe strongly that if you are innocent yet connected/under suspicion in some way to a serious crime you should provide a DNA sample if requested, just for the sake of clearing your name.

I don't know if Scotland Yard would have been able to retrieve any DNA from the bodies as maybe the thai authorities removed all DNA trace evidence before the bodies were released.

But until the KT hi-so sons are DNA tested I will not believe that the thai's have caught the true culprits

If lets say brother of a village boss did it and hanna had his dna.

And then if u dna test that kid in bkk would that be dna mach as they related?

Is it my and my brother dna the same?

I'm no expert on DNA but I would think there would be a few genetic markers in the DNA that would be similar.

Hypothetically, if the village boss did it and you compared the DNA from Hanna with kid in bkk. It wouldn't be a complete match but it might have enough matching markers for the police to suspect it is someone from that family bloodline

[theoldgit]

Flame removed

[T_Dog]

Definitely the crack down on mafia is limited and highly selective. The Patong mafia obviously peed off someone in the NCPO big time and some Thaksinite mafia involved in illegal logging in the North and running gambling dens in the central region have had problems but most of the mafias are left alone, specially in the South where most have ties with the Suthep/ Prawit crowd. The shake up of the police is limited to booting out Thaksinites and replacing them with anti-Thaksinites. They seem very concerned to keep the police on side. Cracking down on mafia gangs would break the iron rice bowl of corrupt police who facilitate their illegal businesses and can't and won't be done. Military are also entwined with many of them too, so they risk losing support in their own ranks. Corrupt police in the South rallied round to protect their own in Koh Tao but made a huge mess of things due to incompetence and have dragged their national commanders and the government down into the hole with them. Just how they are going to get out of it is an interesting puzzle but I believe the NCPO is stunned by the visceral reaction of Thais on social media. Gone are the days when a military dictator could announce an obvious black lie to the media and not worry about criticism. In fact, if they ignore this issue and there are more problems with the public perception of the police later on, this could be the straw that breakes the camel's back leading to a loss of legitimacy to rule and an unsustainable reliance on military might.

Dogmatix.... Insightful reply there. The coup seems to have been nothing more than a transfer of power, and nothing has really changed in Thailand. The cover up has the support of the whole chain of command in Thailand and everyone is still "staying the course". How anyone can send two innocent boys to the gallows to protect thugs is unconscionable.

[phuketandsee]

A Boycott KT FB page has been set up:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Koh-Tao-until-justice-for-David-and-Hannah-is-done/515148018620672

[phuketandsee]

Newspaper that shall not be named reporting this morning that police say recanting of confession was just a "rumor" and that "suspects" are maintaining their guilt and "repented their crime"

[MJP]

Newspaper that shall not be named reporting this morning that police say recanting of confession was just a "rumor" and that "suspects" are maintaining their guilt and "repented their crime"

It truly is pathetic.

[spidermike007]

They did know and felt the final "reward" for the coppers speech would announce the swift end to the whole affair.

If you are unaware of how high this goes I suggest you reread the posts outlining the family tree of involvement

I know people in Samui and KT and it is the same story as told to me on day two. They all knew and were afraid to be the citizens they all wanted to be.

Correct. The army knew from the beginning. There is a concerted effort being made to NOT UPSET the status quo, despite all the PR, and appearances to the contrary. Go after the little guys. But, do not touch the big fish. And that directive goes up to the highest levels. It is apparent in everything they are doing. We know who did this. We have footage of the creep following the victims out to the beach, after an argument at the bar. He refuses DNA. We understand, and acknowledge who did this, but his family is above the law. Leave him alone. Find somebody else to blame this on, preferable not a Thai. I consider any belief to the contrary to be naive.

How to turn a discussion into a confrontation? A bit condescending to consider anyone with a differing opinion as 'naive'? The word egocentric comes to mind.

Anyway, back to civil minded discussion - until the 24th September it seemed there was a real investigation commencing, and up till this point it was RTP only. At what point did the army get involved? To protect the hi-so suspects? If the army is above the RTP why would they let these guys make such an obvious bungle? This is all contained within Surat. The evidence was tampered with/staged before the mainland cops even arrived.

You say influence came from way on up high, but it looks more and more like the local RTP were offered the usual deal - big payday. Only thing is, they forgot about this new online world and their blasted plods posted pictures of the deceased in full graphic horror. That is when people started going batchit crazy over the story coming out. If no details had been leaked these two accused would have been convicts, or dead.

Different to your "theories" but no less valid.

I can assure you, that you are not the first person to have called me egocentric. It is something I continue to work on. Did not mean to cause offense. It was a flip thing to say. What I meant is that there is alot of evidence pointing toward certain conclusions. And I wholeheartedly agree with what you pointed out about the effect the online world is having on the discussion of these problems, and the handling of these investigations. I am not sure if it is a question of the army getting involved, as much as the reasons for the army not getting involved. I think that is more telling than anything here. They should have, and could have taken over the investigation from the local police, or at the very least taken more interest in it. The fact that they did not suggests to me a great desire to avoid rocking the boat, and an unwillingness to upset the status quo on any meaningful level.

Regardless, these problems are nothing but positive for Thailand in the long run. No change is ever going to take place here without pain, and suffering being part of the equation. It will not come from the desire to be better people, or to do better work, and the pride that comes from doing the best job you can possibly do.

Edited October 12, 2014 by spidermike007

[jacky54]

The court is not on an island.

Koh Samui court is not on an island?

Wow!

Tis indeed an island.

Same island where two lads are in the cells one lad is a hostage in a safe house and one prosecutor is in process of reading the 850 page script for the upcoming dramedy briefing the judge as he illustrates his need to be respected as more "thorough" than the rest of the participants. My what an island it is !

Court will be in Surat Thani.

No matter where it is it will in all probability still be an Island away from logic, reason, real evidence and ultimately justice. Anyone who has ever been in a court here or who has followed other cases will not have much faith in any of them where ever they are, they are part of the same rotten system.

Edited October 12, 2014 by jacky54

[jdinasia]

The court is not on an island.

Koh Samui court is not on an island?

Wow!

Tis indeed an island.

Same island where two lads are in the cells one lad is a hostage in a safe house and one prosecutor is in process of reading the 850 page script for the upcoming dramedy briefing the judge as he illustrates his need to be respected as more "thorough" than the rest of the participants. My what an island it is !

Court will be in Surat Thani.

No matter where it is it will in all probability still be an Island away from logic, reason, real evidence and ultimately justice. Anyone who has ever been in a court here or who has followed other cases will not have much faith in any of them where ever they are, they are part of the same rotten system.

Got it!! You can't even let go of complaints when faced by fact.

[ParadiseLost]

Hey JD whats with the messed up quotes? 17,000 posts and still not getting it right

Makes it hard work to read.

Don't want to ignore you as you have valid points (even if we don't agree all the time).

[xylophone]

Definitely the crack down on mafia is limited and highly selective. The Patong mafia obviously peed off someone in the NCPO big time and some Thaksinite mafia involved in illegal logging in the North and running gambling dens in the central region have had problems but most of the mafias are left alone, specially in the South where most have ties with the Suthep/ Prawit crowd. The shake up of the police is limited to booting out Thaksinites and replacing them with anti-Thaksinites. They seem very concerned to keep the police on side. Cracking down on mafia gangs would break the iron rice bowl of corrupt police who facilitate their illegal businesses and can't and won't be done. Military are also entwined with many of them too, so they risk losing support in their own ranks. Corrupt police in the South rallied round to protect their own in Koh Tao but made a huge mess of things due to incompetence and have dragged their national commanders and the government down into the hole with them. Just how they are going to get out of it is an interesting puzzle but I believe the NCPO is stunned by the visceral reaction of Thais on social media. Gone are the days when a military dictator could announce an obvious black lie to the media and not worry about criticism. In fact, if they ignore this issue and there are more problems with the public perception of the police later on, this could be the straw that breakes the camel's back leading to a loss of legitimacy to rule and an unsustainable reliance on military might.

Dogmatix.... Insightful reply there. The coup seems to have been nothing more than a transfer of power, and nothing has really changed in Thailand. The cover up has the support of the whole chain of command in Thailand and everyone is still "staying the course". How anyone can send two innocent boys to the gallows to protect thugs is unconscionable.

If you Google, "Thailand's era of insanity" and read it you will know why the coup took place.

The corruption and the chain of command from whence it travels upward still needs to be kept intact to ensure funds keep flowing, so corruption will never be stamped out, just tidied up a little.

[phuketandsee]

Check out BP opinion piece (google The big issue: The unsolved murders).

This looks like it has reached critical mass now.

[mataleo]

Police deny that they retracted it.

Its on BKK post

[ParadiseLost]

I am not sure if it is a question of the army getting involved, as much as the reasons for the army not getting involved. I think that is more telling than anything here. They should have, and could have taken over the investigation from the local police, or at the very least taken more interest in it. The fact that they did not suggests to me a great desire to avoid rocking the boat, and an unwillingness to upset the status quo on any meaningful level.

Regardless, these problems are nothing but positive for Thailand in the long run. No change is ever going to take place here without pain, and suffering being part of the equation. It will not come from the desire to be better people, or to do better work, and the pride that comes from doing the best job you can possibly do.

Personally I think only a very select few knew that there was a 'double bluff' going on here. The case was supposed to be open and shut, according to the police.

The army were lied to just as the public was; and by the time the truth started to emerge they (RTP) were too invested (pun indeed) in the concocted set-up. Real evidence had already been destroyed, tainted or ignored - quite difficult to undo so they rather stumbled on with their chosen path. Each step has made it harder to undo and hopefully it will eventually seal their fate.

I think your last sentence included an incorrect 'not'? I agree if so. At the moment it seems to me the entire nation is a facade. Nothing can be taken at face value, which is ironic considering the importance of 'face' here.

Edited October 12, 2014 by ParadiseLost

[koele2]

I don't understand why the mafia son, if he said he wasn't even on the island during the murders, would not submit to a DNA test. Instead of producing time stamped photos that everyone is saying are doctored photos, just give a sample. Because if you weren't on the island during the murders, then for sure your DNA is nowhere near the crime scene.

[SteveFong]

Sean Mc Anna speaks out

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-d8PZOQJqL40/VDjdCAy4cAI/AAAAAAAAVWo/xmeqSD7TwWU/s1600/sean-mcanna-soundcloud.JPG

And go Drummond site

Don't know about you mataleo but I ain't buyin....

Me neither. He said on his FB page "the owner of the ac bar did it" but now says he never said he knew. So what did he mean by "it?"

what it means to me, is that the focus on the kid maybe the wrong path.

Sean gave it up, and it is out there,

Everyone following this case, has their eye keenly focused, but, will there be a real investigation?

I say yes,

and that Thailand doesn't understand, that threatening people now, publicly on the web, is not productive and makes them look very guilty,

Imagine the FBI crying on the internet that people didnt like them

[jdinasia]

Hey JD whats with the messed up quotes? 17,000 posts and still not getting it right

Makes it hard work to read.

Don't want to ignore you as you have valid points (even if we don't agree all the time).

Quotes appear fine from the mobile app I am using.

[jdinasia]

I don't understand why the mafia son, if he said he wasn't even on the island during the murders, would not submit to a DNA test. Instead of producing time stamped photos that everyone is saying are doctored photos, just give a sample. Because if you weren't on the island during the murders, then for sure your DNA is nowhere near the crime scene.

I would never volunteer a DNA sample without a court order and a guarantee that it would be destroyed with the results after I was excluded.

Would you??

[bertty]

I don't understand why the mafia son, if he said he wasn't even on the island during the murders, would not submit to a DNA test. Instead of producing time stamped photos that everyone is saying are doctored photos, just give a sample. Because if you weren't on the island during the murders, then for sure your DNA is nowhere near the crime scene.

I would never volunteer a DNA sample without a court order and a guarantee that it would be destroyed with the results after I was excluded.

Would you??

I would. Then again I have nothing to hide, nor should I have anything to hide in the future.

You seem to think its ok for the police to test one group of people but not another.

Pretty <deleted> up logic, at least to me.

[littlebw]

I would give my DNA as i have nothing to hide

I personally think every person in the world should have DNA tested and stored on a database

Only persons who dont want this usually have something to hide or dont want to be caught in the future

[Smurkster]

Time magazine article calling the investigation a "farce" is a good read

[jdinasia]

I don't understand why the mafia son, if he said he wasn't even on the island during the murders, would not submit to a DNA test. Instead of producing time stamped photos that everyone is saying are doctored photos, just give a sample. Because if you weren't on the island during the murders, then for sure your DNA is nowhere near the crime scene.

I would never volunteer a DNA sample without a court order and a guarantee that it would be destroyed with the results after I was excluded.

Would you??

I would. Then again I have nothing to hide, nor should I have anything to hide in the future.

You seem to think its ok for the police to test one group of people but not another.

Pretty up logic, at least to me.

Where did I say what you suggest?

Do you know what a straw man fallacy is?

Edit

BTW civil liberties are important. I assume you accept that the police anywhere would never plant evidence thus no need to worry about giving the police anywhere your DNA.

Edited October 12, 2014 by jdinasia

[Dogmatix]

The police are saying they haven't been informed of the retraction of the confession which still stands as far as they are concerned but they say it is unnecessary for their case because they have ample evidence from CCTV,DNA, new witnesses (after their first star witness recanted), the mobile phone etc.

Seems to me that the only incontrovertible piece of evidence they might have is the DNA. Even if the suspects are convicted on the basis of the DNA people at home and abroad will be convinced it was an unsound conviction, unless the DNA results are independently verified abroad. Few people doubt that the police would 'fix' DNA results to suit their chosen scapegoats. Prayuth said in Burma that police would never to set up scape goats in a big case, even though they have done it before

Prayuth needs to take a statesmanlike decision and order a new independent investigation with DNA testing in the UK and a human rights probe into the torture allegations. Otherwise this issue will dog him for the rest of his premiership and might even be the thing that brings him down, given the high expectations for police reform created by the coup.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Dogmatix

[sabaidimai]

We all, I think, know that several police murders of prominent families are at large in Thailand and never will be prosecuted. I had my high hopes once I came here, positive and all, but after seeing my own eyes exactly how ridiculously unjustly foreigners are treated in the justice system here I just can't believe this one is handled with any form of professionalism or sorry to say as usual. I just don't understand why US and EU let them get away with all the BS that mainly the Thai Chinese are doing to this place. The attitude that Thai are so nice and should be handled softly is utter nonsense. See how they drive. Egoistic maniacs with NO respect for human life. Thailand is going to be big loser once ASEAN get going for sure. I feel sad about the future and all decent people. What they probably need is serious international bashing this time if these boys are innocent

[jdinasia]

The 2 Burmese men accused are just that. Men not boys.

[transam]

The 2 Burmese men accused are just that. Men not boys.

14 or 21, lets see those who have not given DNA give DNA. Lets see England take DNA from the accused AND owners of bars and give their opinion. Let's have Sean give his DNA toooooooo. EH........

[jdinasia]

The 2 Burmese men accused are just that. Men not boys.

14 or 21, lets see those who have not given DNA give DNA. Lets see England take DNA from the accused AND owners of bars and give their opinion. Let's have Sean give his DNA toooooooo. EH........

England doesn't have the right to take DNA in Thailand.