Ensure 'fair probe' for suspects, says Thein Sein

[minikev]

Will the 850 page doc become public at any point and if so is that before a hearing?

[SICHONSTEVE]

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

That is true ! Slap me in a foreign country where I can ne speak the language with a representative of a disposed people of my home land, with scalding water and electrocution and you would fall over backwards at the things I would tell you that I have done ! I would even sign a confession in a language that I didn't understand and would ask police to direct me through the reenactment to ensure I got that correct too.

But they were not tortured.

That is true. Once the claims of torture, by the three victims of torture, have these claims signed off and agreed to by the coppers and the army we will all be sure to forward this to you mate so you can believe what they have informed us already. Nothing exists without the police and army agreeing that it happened. Or at least creating a fairy tale about how it was ONLY the roti guy and they were not present whilst the roti guy took it upon himself to inflict harm. See - hands clean !

A tiny scratch on the neck does not constitute harm and would never extract a confession for such a serious crime such as this.

You are all having a laugh!

Stevie baby you need to go lay down . That small scratch on his neck as you see it, it actually on his arm pit...

You are spending so much time running from post to post defending your BIB it is doing your eye sight in..

Or is that the other thing you spend so much time doing over a picture of one of them ?

This gets more hilarious by the minute - I've just put it back on follow again.

So it (the confession) was extracted through 'over zealous tickling.

That will go down well in court I should imagine, I can just picture it - well your honour he was making me laugh so much that I just had to sign that confession!.

Continue to advise when you choose to follow or unfollow a thread.

Apparently we find interest in what your section is at any given moment What an odd thing to do.

Anyway - back to real business folks !

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

So you have declared them guilty as charged, not a shed of doubt, lets not bother with a trial.

And anyone who doesn't agree with you is defending rapists.

But hang on they haven't been charged yet, but why bother with little details like that just get on with the executions.

No!! I didn't, they did.

Without thinking they basically said the BIB are liars because they claimed to find their DNA on the outside of the condoms that they picked up.

One of them went on to say "how could they have found DNA on the outside of the condoms as WE DIDN'T USE CONDOMS WHEN WE VIOLATED THEM". Their words notice, not the BIB's, not mine.

If that isn't implicating themselves then what is??

[Number 3]

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

That is true ! Slap me in a foreign country where I can ne speak the language with a representative of a disposed people of my home land, with scalding water and electrocution and you would fall over backwards at the things I would tell you that I have done ! I would even sign a confession in a language that I didn't understand and would ask police to direct me through the reenactment to ensure I got that correct too.

But they were not tortured.

That is true. Once the claims of torture, by the three victims of torture, have these claims signed off and agreed to by the coppers and the army we will all be sure to forward this to you mate so you can believe what they have informed us already. Nothing exists without the police and army agreeing that it happened. Or at least creating a fairy tale about how it was ONLY the roti guy and they were not present whilst the roti guy took it upon himself to inflict harm. See - hands clean !

A tiny scratch on the neck does not constitute harm and would never extract a confession for such a serious crime such as this.

You are all having a laugh!

Stevie baby you need to go lay down . That small scratch on his neck as you see it, it actually on his arm pit...

You are spending so much time running from post to post defending your BIB it is doing your eye sight in..

Or is that the other thing you spend so much time doing over a picture of one of them ?

This gets more hilarious by the minute - I've just put it back on follow again.

So it (the confession) was extracted through 'over zealous tickling.

That will go down well in court I should imagine, I can just picture it - well your honour he was making me laugh so much that I just had to sign that confession!.

Continue to advise when you choose to follow or unfollow a thread.

Apparently we find interest in what your section is at any given moment What an odd thing to do.

Anyway - back to real business folks !

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

So you have declared them guilty as charged, not a shed of doubt, lets not bother with a trial.

And anyone who doesn't agree with you is defending rapists.

But hang on they haven't been charged yet, but why bother with little details like that just get on with the executions.

Robby can I suggest to leave Steve to his own devices. Allow him to advise when he decides to again unfollow

And move it on. We all have a voice here, just know which ones to wide-berth

[JLCrab]

From post #140 above: Yep, they can't come out here and start investigating a crime, but I do believe that only means if a British citizen is implicated as a perpetrator. However, they do have a right to do their own investigation (albeit limited) if their citizens are 'victims'.

This is often true of more complex cases, such as the 2008 murders of Ben and Catherine Mullany on their honeymoon in Antigua. Following a lengthy inquiry extensively supported by the Metropolitan and South Wales Police, two Antiguan nationals, Avie Howell and Kaniel Martin, were convicted of their murder. This investigation came about as a result of request for assistance by the Antiguan government for the expertise of British Police and at a significant financial cost to the British taxpayer

From: http://www.open.ac.uk/research/main/news/international-co-operation-crucial-for-solving-crimes-against-britons-abroad

So all it takes is the Thai government to invite them over then.

As far as I can tell, yes; no country has 'the right' to investigate a crime against its citizens in another country unless requested to do so by the country where the crime occurred. From the US -- not UK -- Bangkok Embassy website:

Consular Assistance to U.S. Crime Victims -- We cannot:

• Investigate crimes
• Provide legal advice or represent you in court

Edited October 11, 2014 by JLCrab

[Just1Voice]

@SICHONSTEVE - While at times you actually do make some relevant statements and fact, you seem to have a serious "obsession" in regards to the two suspects NOT being tortured. So, with that in mind, I'm assuming you completely missed the article in the BP a few days back in regards to them being "tortured" into a confession,

I guess you totally missed the article about the representative of the Myanmar Embassy who went to talk to the two suspects, and afterwards openly stated comments concerning the serious bruising on BOTH of their bodies that he observed during his interview with them? Did you, by chance, miss that article????

[SICHONSTEVE]

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

That is true ! Slap me in a foreign country where I can ne speak the language with a representative of a disposed people of my home land, with scalding water and electrocution and you would fall over backwards at the things I would tell you that I have done ! I would even sign a confession in a language that I didn't understand and would ask police to direct me through the reenactment to ensure I got that correct too.

But they were not tortured.

That is true. Once the claims of torture, by the three victims of torture, have these claims signed off and agreed to by the coppers and the army we will all be sure to forward this to you mate so you can believe what they have informed us already. Nothing exists without the police and army agreeing that it happened. Or at least creating a fairy tale about how it was ONLY the roti guy and they were not present whilst the roti guy took it upon himself to inflict harm. See - hands clean !

A tiny scratch on the neck does not constitute harm and would never extract a confession for such a serious crime such as this.

You are all having a laugh!

Stevie baby you need to go lay down . That small scratch on his neck as you see it, it actually on his arm pit...

You are spending so much time running from post to post defending your BIB it is doing your eye sight in..

Or is that the other thing you spend so much time doing over a picture of one of them ?

This gets more hilarious by the minute - I've just put it back on follow again.

So it (the confession) was extracted through 'over zealous tickling.

That will go down well in court I should imagine, I can just picture it - well your honour he was making me laugh so much that I just had to sign that confession!.

Continue to advise when you choose to follow or unfollow a thread.

Apparently we find interest in what your section is at any given moment What an odd thing to do.

Anyway - back to real business folks !

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

So you have declared them guilty as charged, not a shed of doubt, lets not bother with a trial.

And anyone who doesn't agree with you is defending rapists.

But hang on they haven't been charged yet, but why bother with little details like that just get on with the executions.

Robby can I suggest to leave Steve to his own devices. Allow him to advise when he decides to again unfollow

And move it on. We all have a voice here, just know which ones to wide-berth

Getting the better of you am I??

They always say that if you are faced with someone/something stronger than you, don't challenge it, just walk away to save yourself from further humiliation!

[sambum]

Hello all... I'm helping out the guy who is running the petition (http://goo.gl/FD66Th) to get the UK gov to independently investigate David and Hannah's murders and I need a favour from you wonderful people... The numbers of signees are slowing down somewhat, but we need to keep going - if we reach 100k (currently just over 50k) we can ask for it to be discussed in Parliament.

Anyway trying it tap into new channels outside if what we are currently hitting, so we've just set up a Twitter account - if you have twitter can you pls follow us and give us a share/retweet? Many thanks... We are at: @ThailandJustice

Thank you

From the above: I'm helping out the guy who is running the petition to get the UK gov to independently investigate ...

From the UK Embassy -- Bangkok website:

What the FCO and British consulate can’t do

The FCO and British consulate won’t be able to:

• get someone out of prison or detention
• help someone get special treatment
• offer legal advice, start legal proceedings or investigate a crime

Yep, they can't come out here and start investigating a crime, but I do believe that only means if a British citizen is implicated as a perpetrator. However, they do have a right to do their own investigation (albeit limited) if their citizens are 'victims'.

I am sure that lot only pertains to Brits who are locked up.

There is nothing stopping the British police from working with the Burmese lawyers to help establish guilt or innocence of the two currently charged with the murder of said 'British' victims. Mainly because they need to establish the right people have been caught and that there is no longer a danger of further attacks on their subjects travelling to KT.

The British police have DNA samples from Hannah's body, and all is needed now is the Burmese lawyers to supply them with DNA samples from the two accused, which they have the right to collect.

If the Thai authorities attempt to block this in any way, that is a complete admission of guilt that they have tampered evidence to convict innocent people.

Even if these two met their demise, it is illegal for the Thai authorities to cremate them.... There must be the option under international law for their bodies to become property of the Burmese consulate for reparation if desired by their families.

So this is not over by a long way.... In the event of these two also dying while in custody, the RTP and Thailand in general are even further in the hole.

They are already on a knife edge facing possible international sanctions and being scrutinised by many for their human rights abuses of migrant workers, and they are playing right into their hands. They don't realise the economic impact of sanctions, and if they get imposed can (and usually do) don't get lifted for up to and beyond 20 years.

It would help if the instructions on how to add your name to the petition on the the right hand side of the page on the CHANGE.ORG website were in ENGLISH!

[Number 3]

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

That is true ! Slap me in a foreign country where I can ne speak the language with a representative of a disposed people of my home land, with scalding water and electrocution and you would fall over backwards at the things I would tell you that I have done ! I would even sign a confession in a language that I didn't understand and would ask police to direct me through the reenactment to ensure I got that correct too.

But they were not tortured.

That is true. Once the claims of torture, by the three victims of torture, have these claims signed off and agreed to by the coppers and the army we will all be sure to forward this to you mate so you can believe what they have informed us already. Nothing exists without the police and army agreeing that it happened. Or at least creating a fairy tale about how it was ONLY the roti guy and they were not present whilst the roti guy took it upon himself to inflict harm. See - hands clean !

A tiny scratch on the neck does not constitute harm and would never extract a confession for such a serious crime such as this.

You are all having a laugh!

Stevie baby you need to go lay down . That small scratch on his neck as you see it, it actually on his arm pit...

You are spending so much time running from post to post defending your BIB it is doing your eye sight in..

Or is that the other thing you spend so much time doing over a picture of one of them ?

This gets more hilarious by the minute - I've just put it back on follow again.

So it (the confession) was extracted through 'over zealous tickling.

That will go down well in court I should imagine, I can just picture it - well your honour he was making me laugh so much that I just had to sign that confession!.

Continue to advise when you choose to follow or unfollow a thread.

Apparently we find interest in what your section is at any given moment What an odd thing to do.

Anyway - back to real business folks !

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

So you have declared them guilty as charged, not a shed of doubt, lets not bother with a trial.

And anyone who doesn't agree with you is defending rapists.

But hang on they haven't been charged yet, but why bother with little details like that just get on with the executions.

No!! I didn't, they did.

Without thinking they basically said the BIB are liars because they claimed to find their DNA on the outside of the condoms that they picked up.

One of them went on to say "how could they have found DNA on the outside of the condoms as WE DIDN'T USE CONDOMS WHEN WE VIOLATED THEM". Their words notice, not the BIB's, not mine.

If that isn't implicating themselves then what is??

If they did then I am sure that amnesty and the nhrc and the various other groups will work with the lawyers teams for clarification of this point as well as all other points they signed off on on their Thai confession. There are a truck load not just this one. Three days in a "safe house" with local coppers with vested interests. Thank fully I have been here a while and know full well how the constabulary operates. Pornthip will have the forensics covered properly now no doubt - or what's left of it, and knowing full well there was no Singapore lab involved she will not let this go.

Next, please.

[Traveller45]

love the smug contented grin on his face. Strutting around like a peacock thinking to himself who care about or what these stupid Burmese think. if we want to stich someone up on murder charges we will. He is so proud of the job his police have done and rewarded them for their corruption.

You can tell what someone is thinking just from a photo? You would be an excellent policeman no need to actually interview suspects just one look case solved every time.

Quite right. I like him a lot, actually. He has done more in a few months than his predecessors in decades. A contented grin, a sort of poker face, is part of the game here. Judge him by results, not by face.

[Number 3]

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

That is true ! Slap me in a foreign country where I can ne speak the language with a representative of a disposed people of my home land, with scalding water and electrocution and you would fall over backwards at the things I would tell you that I have done ! I would even sign a confession in a language that I didn't understand and would ask police to direct me through the reenactment to ensure I got that correct too.

But they were not tortured.

That is true. Once the claims of torture, by the three victims of torture, have these claims signed off and agreed to by the coppers and the army we will all be sure to forward this to you mate so you can believe what they have informed us already. Nothing exists without the police and army agreeing that it happened. Or at least creating a fairy tale about how it was ONLY the roti guy and they were not present whilst the roti guy took it upon himself to inflict harm. See - hands clean !

A tiny scratch on the neck does not constitute harm and would never extract a confession for such a serious crime such as this.

You are all having a laugh!

Stevie baby you need to go lay down . That small scratch on his neck as you see it, it actually on his arm pit...

You are spending so much time running from post to post defending your BIB it is doing your eye sight in..

Or is that the other thing you spend so much time doing over a picture of one of them ?

This gets more hilarious by the minute - I've just put it back on follow again.

So it (the confession) was extracted through 'over zealous tickling.

That will go down well in court I should imagine, I can just picture it - well your honour he was making me laugh so much that I just had to sign that confession!.

Continue to advise when you choose to follow or unfollow a thread.

Apparently we find interest in what your section is at any given moment What an odd thing to do.

Anyway - back to real business folks !

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

So you have declared them guilty as charged, not a shed of doubt, lets not bother with a trial.

And anyone who doesn't agree with you is defending rapists.

But hang on they haven't been charged yet, but why bother with little details like that just get on with the executions.

Robby can I suggest to leave Steve to his own devices. Allow him to advise when he decides to again unfollow

And move it on. We all have a voice here, just know which ones to wide-berth

Getting the better of you am I??

They always say that if you are faced with someone/something stronger than you, don't challenge it, just walk away to save yourself from further humiliation!

5555. Yes mate you are. My head hangs in shame.

[SICHONSTEVE]

@SICHONSTEVE - While at times you actually do make some relevant statements and fact, you seem to have a serious "obsession" in regards to the two suspects NOT being tortured. So, with that in mind, I'm assuming you completely missed the article in the BP a few days back in regards to them being "tortured" into a confession,

I guess you totally missed the article about the representative of the Myanmar Embassy who went to talk to the two suspects, and afterwards openly stated comments concerning the serious bruising on BOTH of their bodies that he observed during his interview with them? Did you, by chance, miss that article????

I know that this was said - but nothing to substantiate it and until they can provide evidence of the alleged torture we should all assume that it didn't happen.

[Number 3]

@SICHONSTEVE - While at times you actually do make some relevant statements and fact, you seem to have a serious "obsession" in regards to the two suspects NOT being tortured. So, with that in mind, I'm assuming you completely missed the article in the BP a few days back in regards to them being "tortured" into a confession,

I guess you totally missed the article about the representative of the Myanmar Embassy who went to talk to the two suspects, and afterwards openly stated comments concerning the serious bruising on BOTH of their bodies that he observed during his interview with them? Did you, by chance, miss that article????

Shhhh! Don't tell Steve this ! What is wrong you with you man !

[Number 3]

@SICHONSTEVE - While at times you actually do make some relevant statements and fact, you seem to have a serious "obsession" in regards to the two suspects NOT being tortured. So, with that in mind, I'm assuming you completely missed the article in the BP a few days back in regards to them being "tortured" into a confession,

I guess you totally missed the article about the representative of the Myanmar Embassy who went to talk to the two suspects, and afterwards openly stated comments concerning the serious bruising on BOTH of their bodies that he observed during his interview with them? Did you, by chance, miss that article????

I know that this was said - but nothing to substantiate it and until they can provide evidence of the alleged torture we should all assume that it didn't happen.

We should all assume it didn't happen ?

What are you 10 ?

[SICHONSTEVE]

@SICHONSTEVE - While at times you actually do make some relevant statements and fact, you seem to have a serious "obsession" in regards to the two suspects NOT being tortured. So, with that in mind, I'm assuming you completely missed the article in the BP a few days back in regards to them being "tortured" into a confession,

I guess you totally missed the article about the representative of the Myanmar Embassy who went to talk to the two suspects, and afterwards openly stated comments concerning the serious bruising on BOTH of their bodies that he observed during his interview with them? Did you, by chance, miss that article????

Shhhh! Don't tell Steve this ! What is wrong you with you man !

Too late! already seen it. Not substantiated I'm afraid without GENUINE and unquestionable proof which has not been forthcoming.

[wackybacky]

From post #140 above: Yep, they can't come out here and start investigating a crime, but I do believe that only means if a British citizen is implicated as a perpetrator. However, they do have a right to do their own investigation (albeit limited) if their citizens are 'victims'.

This is often true of more complex cases, such as the 2008 murders of Ben and Catherine Mullany on their honeymoon in Antigua. Following a lengthy inquiry extensively supported by the Metropolitan and South Wales Police, two Antiguan nationals, Avie Howell and Kaniel Martin, were convicted of their murder. This investigation came about as a result of request for assistance by the Antiguan government for the expertise of British Police and at a significant financial cost to the British taxpayer

From: http://www.open.ac.uk/research/main/news/international-co-operation-crucial-for-solving-crimes-against-britons-abroad

We are not even on the same page here.

The difference YOU are pointing out is the Anigua government asked the British police for help, meaning they went there to the island and headed the investigation. They were basically in charge of it.

Completely different from working with the Myanmar authorities (or lawyers) to cross examine DNA samples that the Thai police are saying is something that now appears highly unlikely to be true and accurate and in fact suggests tampering.

The British authorities are more than entitled to do their own tests and either affirm or decry the Thai police's test results.

It's as simple as that.

I love it when people pull out totally irrelevant stories and links to try to back themselves up when they are completely out of context.... a bit like the RTP are doing.

Get back into context.... This is not a matter of the British police being (or not being) invited to head the investigation... That would not happen in a million years, I would give it 2 days and the Brits will have totally destroyed the case and apprehended the real killers (and their influential families).

This is about what you can and can't do when you are NOT invited to take part.

Edited October 11, 2014 by wackybacky

[phuketandsee]

Will the 850 page doc become public at any point and if so is that before a hearing?

I read somewhere (can't find it at the moment) that the PM is asking for the document to be translated into English so it might become available at some point.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Actual violence. Then threats of worse, electrocution etc. Plus threats against family and friends.

Signing incomprehensible documents at virtual gunpoint.

That would do it for most of us, until embassy and Andy Hall could get access to us.

Yes Simon #151. That`s all it takes. But they wont will they.

Actual violence that leaves no marks (or marks that do not appear on photographic paper), threats of electrocution - I'm going to electrocute you I am, I will!

Is virtual gunpoint potentially harmful BTW as its a new one on me? Does the BIB stick his finger out and pretend its a gun striking fear into the persecuted ones? I bet they only signed after he aimed his finger over his head and went bang!!

Do me a favour, you've got to come up with something better than that.

[stephen terry]

Thai law question: does anyone know when a signed confession is recanted (a normal occurrence) is the original confession still regarded as evidence?

Better to avoid complicating the matter with related topics.

The only irrefutable evidence is the correspondence of the DNA found in the body of the victim and that of two Burmese.

Everything else is just chatter futile

As far as I am aware (apart from the capture of DNA in a less than forensic manner, which questions the suitability) is the police evidence of rape only. There is no DNA evidence or fingerprints against the suspects to support the charge of murder (from the reports issued). David's DNA is not on the murder weapon (the hoe). If the RTP have eye-witnesses to the murder, that has not been revealed to the media. That is why I asked the question.

The RTP have stated that the DNA matches, albeit they haven't been specific in naming what matches, but there is also the DNA of a reported (by the RTP) third person as yet unaccounted for. That puts this person at the scene of the crime, which is contrary to the re-enactment scenario.

Now what were you saying about DNA?

[brucec64]

Why is the emphasis being put on whether these guys were slapped about or not.

From documentation, I wouldn't call the torture, including the use of boiling water, inflicted on these ALLEGED SUSPECTS, as being "slapped around."

What evidence do you have on this torture having taken place??

Photos!

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

Maybe one day you will be sitting in the chair facing the prospect of a cattle prod electrocution, and I'm sure you will openly admit to whatever they tell you to admit to.

[wabothai]

The boys in the picture look to me as "ruthless, mafioso, killers".

[heyexile]

love the smug contented grin on his face. Strutting around like a peacock thinking to himself who care about or what these stupid Burmese think. if we want to stich someone up on murder charges we will. He is so proud of the job his police have done and rewarded them for their corruption.

You can tell what someone is thinking just from a photo? You would be an excellent policeman no need to actually interview suspects just one look case solved every time.

Quite right. I like him a lot, actually. He has done more in a few months than his predecessors in decades. A contented grin, a sort of poker face, is part of the game here. Judge him by results, not by face.

"By their fruits ye shall know them."

"...the just man justices, keeps grace that keeps all his goings graces" G.M.H

Check the family tree and business/political connections that start with a young man W on KT and end with the venerable Suthep. Would you like the link?

[Number 3]

Why is the emphasis being put on whether these guys were slapped about or not.

From documentation, I wouldn't call the torture, including the use of boiling water, inflicted on these ALLEGED SUSPECTS, as being "slapped around."

What evidence do you have on this torture having taken place??

Photos!

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

Maybe one day you will be sitting in the chair facing the prospect of a cattle prod electrocution, and I'm sure you will openly admit to whatever they tell you to admit to.

Hand on heart - with the above scenario in the context of police safe house. You would have me at hello

I

[SICHONSTEVE]

Why is the emphasis being put on whether these guys were slapped about or not.

From documentation, I wouldn't call the torture, including the use of boiling water, inflicted on these ALLEGED SUSPECTS, as being "slapped around."

What evidence do you have on this torture having taken place??

Photos!

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

Maybe one day you will be sitting in the chair facing the prospect of a cattle prod electrocution, and I'm sure you will openly admit to whatever they tell you to admit to.

Not me! I'm as honest as they come and have never, in 57 years, even come close to getting in trouble with the law so no prods for me my friend. No doubt you would like to be holding it if it ever it did happen but I'm going to have to disappoint you on that as it is highly unlikely.

[wackybacky]

Will the 850 page doc become public at any point and if so is that before a hearing?

I read somewhere (can't find it at the moment) that the PM is asking for the document to be translated into English so it might become available at some point.

Firstly, whatever document that is, I hope it is translated by a western translator that speaks and reads fluent Burmese and not the other way round. That way we may get accuracy.

Secondly, the presence of a document on this issue, indicates to me that Prayuth has been asked to sign this pledge personally. Even the fact it was discussed as I earlier pointed out, is that the Thais are being viewed from Yangon with extreme suspicion.

Prayuth and his police chiefs better get their acts together if they want to avoid extremely negative 'international' political fallout from this incident. They are surely swimming in shark infested waters, seemingly blissfully unaware (as usual).

Why do I get the feeling that because of the typical Thai attitude to everything non-Thai.... Once AEC kicks in, the rest of ASEAN are going to pull together and show Thailand that it is pretty insignificant in terms of the rest of the community. It aint going to look so big when the other countries are united as one.

[brucec64]

Why is the emphasis being put on whether these guys were slapped about or not.

From documentation, I wouldn't call the torture, including the use of boiling water, inflicted on these ALLEGED SUSPECTS, as being "slapped around."

What evidence do you have on this torture having taken place??

Photos!

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

Maybe one day you will be sitting in the chair facing the prospect of a cattle prod electrocution, and I'm sure you will openly admit to whatever they tell you to admit to.

Not me! I'm as honest as they come and have never, in 57 years, even come close to getting in trouble with the law so no prods for me my friend. No doubt you would like to be holding it if it ever it did happen but I'm going to have to disappoint you on that as it is highly unlikely.

Now you understand. You don't actually have to be guilty to be forced to admit, just in the general proximity to the crime.

[Number 3]

Why is the emphasis being put on whether these guys were slapped about or not.

From documentation, I wouldn't call the torture, including the use of boiling water, inflicted on these ALLEGED SUSPECTS, as being "slapped around."

What evidence do you have on this torture having taken place??

Photos!

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

Maybe one day you will be sitting in the chair facing the prospect of a cattle prod electrocution, and I'm sure you will openly admit to whatever they tell you to admit to.

Not me! I'm as honest as they come and have never, in 57 years, even come close to getting in trouble with the law so no prods for me my friend. No doubt you would like to be holding it if it ever it did happen but I'm going to have to disappoint you on that as it is highly unlikely.

Oh dear. How to miss a point.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Why is the emphasis being put on whether these guys were slapped about or not.

From documentation, I wouldn't call the torture, including the use of boiling water, inflicted on these ALLEGED SUSPECTS, as being "slapped around."

What evidence do you have on this torture having taken place??

Photos!

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

Maybe one day you will be sitting in the chair facing the prospect of a cattle prod electrocution, and I'm sure you will openly admit to whatever they tell you to admit to.

Not me! I'm as honest as they come and have never, in 57 years, even come close to getting in trouble with the law so no prods for me my friend. No doubt you would like to be holding it if it ever it did happen but I'm going to have to disappoint you on that as it is highly unlikely.

Now you understand. You don't actually have to be guilty to be forced to admit, just in the general proximity to the crime.

I make it a habit not to be around crime scenes when the happen

[gigman]

Victims deserved the truth to be exposed.

If this country wants to have "clean face" then they can not hide facts.

Reading all of this crap from authorities I have very strong feeling about something is not right in whole investigation story.

For so long time there was no clue who is guilty then suddenly they found ones.....

Who have so much money and power to still " pull the strings" in this case.And Thailand is talking about cleaning this mess..???

It is still old crap .

I still believe that Prime minister is doing right work but if he fail to contribute to this case then all my hope is just rubbish as usual.

Simply enough is enough.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Why is the emphasis being put on whether these guys were slapped about or not.

From documentation, I wouldn't call the torture, including the use of boiling water, inflicted on these ALLEGED SUSPECTS, as being "slapped around."

What evidence do you have on this torture having taken place??

Photos!

The real truth of this case is we have a confession which has been rescinded.....a murder weapon which was only used on one of the victims.....a botched together re-enactment.....oh and DNA evidence taken by plod rather than proper forensics people.

I'd like to know the truth of what happened that night as I'm sure many others would Steve and if they are guilty so be it but I don't at this time see how they can convict these two Burmese when it appears the police have got at best half a story.

Half a fairytale many would suggest. Meanwhile the rest of us await the next move....probably heavily leaning on the Samui prosecutor as we speak......

Agree with everything in your post - this investigation was cocked up right from the beginning.

To avoid sounding like a parrot - where is this proof of torture?

Murderer suspects (the accused) are bound to say this, especially with the encouragement of their defence lawyer. Everyone has jumped on the band waggon and assumed that they were tortured, on their word. Well I take this with a pinch of salt - until that is, someone shows me proof that this occurred! A far as I am concerned they freely admitted (without force from the Thai police) that they committed the rape and murders. It was only when the defence lawyer came on board that they rescinded their confessions and there was all this talk of torture all of a sudden.

That's my position and I'm sticking with it!

Don't forget, they have openly admitted the rapes by accident (even insisting that they did it, to their 'own side') so there is no defending that aspect and they must stand trial for rape.

You clearly have had no dealings with the police, no involvement with lawyers and no court experience and seem to no very little about how Thailand "works".

All your arguments are framed around your western experiences and perceptions .. Stick to whatever you like, you seem a bit obsessive about this subject..with zero empathy for the victims something you have in common with the above Thai institutions .

How can you ignore the fact that they have openly admitted that they raped her (not rescinded by the way), you just can't!

Why are you people protecting rapists, that's what I want to know!

Is that not a fair question to ask? Do you do this kind of thing often. Rescinding their confession is meaningless, it means nothing and is a huge red herring. This happens all the time - especially once the defence lawyer is up to speed. He is trying to correct the fact that they made the confessions through ignorance as they are not terribly bright little boys.

I bet it went like this - DL what have you admitted to BB this, this and this. DL oh!, right, this is what we need to do - rescind everything you said and claim torture was used to get it out of you. Then put on you're innocent little-boy faces and seek sympathy from as many people as possible in order to throw the BIB's case into array.

This ploy seems to have worked.

Maybe one day you will be sitting in the chair facing the prospect of a cattle prod electrocution, and I'm sure you will openly admit to whatever they tell you to admit to.

Not me! I'm as honest as they come and have never, in 57 years, even come close to getting in trouble with the law so no prods for me my friend. No doubt you would like to be holding it if it ever it did happen but I'm going to have to disappoint you on that as it is highly unlikely.

Oh dear. How to miss a point.

I wouldn't admit to anything I hadn't done with a perceived threat that I know isn't going to happen. Why, would you be dumb enough to?

Anyway, what threat are you referring to and carried out on whom by whom?

[Eirene]

Why would Sean lie about his cut saying it came from a motorbike accident? Why did he not wash off the blood on his guitar? Why was he allowed to leave Thailand on the same day? How did they manage to do a DNA test on him within 24 hours? What about this employee at the AC bar who helped him to wash off a lot of blood on his body, arms, legs & face? Why was he chased & targeted by Mon & Co.?

It is all very very very obvious, he was an (unwanted) witness of the attacks, got in the way and got cut! Very very very simple! He knows or partially knows who did it. He holds the key and therefore needed to be eliminated or shipped out on the next plane. The guy is a fruitcake with blood on his hands and the only true thing he said so far is: " I know you (David) tried to save her".

I would personally start looking for the NO DNA guy who happens to be the son of Mon & Brother (Mayor of Koh Tao). Forget the (manipulated) CCTV, get the DNA of this NO DNA guy!

I repeat, GET THE DNA OF THE NO DNA guy!

Hello Krenjai...A wee bit off topic...sorry. Quoting you as you mention the AC Bar. I am wondering why the facebook page for this bar would have been altered? I was perusing this page a few days ago and it was up-to-date, recent pictures, including the evening of September 14th. As of today I find that everything has been deleted back to December 2012. Rather odd.

Kind Regards,

~E~