Real Estate Agents Fee Highway robbery

[Robert2006]

Its fascinating to me that you would consider a broker could sell a property and earn 6-7% without doing anything for it, maybe you could explain how you think that is done for me.

It seems pretty clear that agents in Thailand do indeed get up to 5% commission (maybe up to 8% on new build sales) without actually doing very much, and certainly without any proper training or qualifications or (in many cases) even any knowledge.

It also seems pretty clear that UK agents do a proper job for 1% or so.

So I would like to know how you think that US agents justify their high fees by doing so many times more work than the UK agents do, because I just cant see it.

And I would also like to know why agents here think they are worth 5 times a UK agent, because I cant see that either.

Interesting, I have a friend from England that lives here in the US, he works here as a broker and developer; I mentioned our discussion about real estate commission rates in England to him last night. Seems you forgot to mention that only the lowest paid agents in the UK would earn a 1% fee and that the majority of UK real estate commission rates are not 1% but are 2.5%-3%. He said that 1% would not be enough to advertise the property, and that those agents would certainly deliver the poorest service, which is exactly what I said in my reply.

I don’t know the UK market but somehow I had a feeling this was the case. You are being deceitful, trying to denigrate the real estate profession, why I have no idea. I’m curious as to what motivated you to manipulate the truth to support your position? Is it that you’re practicing to be an author, possibly specializing in fiction? (That’s sarcasm).

I guess you assumed I was just some pitiful self-propelled stomach that spends my time in Thailand with a bottle of Chang in each hand and a different hooker in my bed each night, I can assure you that is not the case. I spent a lot of time trying to deliver worthwhile information to help people on this thread. I don’t have to omit or manipulate because I speak the truth and my motivation is only to help. I think you need to ask yourself what is your true motivation?

[KarenBravo]

So much for what your "mate" says. Read the link. Average is 1.5% and should be less than 1% for properties over 500k sterling (of which there are a lot).

http://hoa.org.uk/advice/guides-for-homeowners/i-am-selling/how-much-should-i-pay-the-estate-agent/

[ThaiBob]

From what I have read the commissions in the UK vary, often by postal code and value of property. The average rate is 1.8% and can go to 3%(of course the effective rate is higher because VAT must be added). Century 21 which knows how to market property charges 2.5% in UK. Additionally, much of work performed by agents in the US is performed by solicitors in the UK at additional costs so making costs comparisons isn't easy. What I would like to see is a discussion on how to fix real estate marketing here in Pattaya. I was amazed when I sold a condo years ago that I should list with as many brokers as possible. What a screwed up way to market property!

[KittenKong]

Seems you forgot to mention that only the lowest paid agents in the UK would earn a 1% fee and that the majority of UK real estate commission rates are not 1% but are 2.5%-3%. He said that 1% would not be enough to advertise the property, and that those agents would certainly deliver the poorest service, which is exactly what I said in my reply

I forgot nothing. Rates vary, as does everything, and starting points for negotiation are anywhere from 1% (common) to 1.5% (common) to 2% or more (rare) with an average of 1.5% or less as others have pointed out.

But in spite of that average there are plenty of agents in the UK who will sell a property worth the average price of a semi-decent condo here (say 3MB) for 1% commission, whereas an agent here might want 5% and one in the US might want 6%.

As for how good a service the 1% UK agents give, who cares? Their only job is to sell the property. If they do so they get their commission and if they dont another agent will get it. They are all just salesmen.

If your friend thinks that you need to spend anything like 1% of the value of a property on advertising in the UK then I really dont know which planet he is living on.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Thailand real estate markets are a free for all anyone can work the business without training; with real estate purchases being fundamentally one of the most costly personal acquisitions wouldnt it be safer for the public if there was at least a licensing requirement? A mandatory criminal background check and a training program to get licensed would be a nice start.

Foreigners are already prohibited from working as Realtors in Thailand.

They can own the company, they can manage the office, they can't sell or interact with clients.

[ThaiBob]

Thailand real estate markets are a free for all anyone can work the business without training; with real estate purchases being fundamentally one of the most costly personal acquisitions wouldnt it be safer for the public if there was at least a licensing requirement? A mandatory criminal background check and a training program to get licensed would be a nice start.

Foreigners are already prohibited from working as Realtors in Thailand.

They can own the company, they can manage the office, they can't sell or interact with clients.

According to this TV link working in real estate and getting a work permit(s) for its foreign employees should be possible and easily attainable based on the capital requirements for realtors. These realtors that have kiosks manned by foreigners all over Pattaya should have little difficulty with WPs I would suspect. It is the the small realtor who might have a problem making the the 4 to 1 ratio(Thai to foreigner). It only makes sense if you are selling condos to Russians you should have Russian speaking sales agents.

http://www.thaivisa.com/how-to-get-thai-workpermit.html

[Robert2006]

Seems you forgot to mention that only the lowest paid agents in the UK would earn a 1% fee and that the majority of UK real estate commission rates are not 1% but are 2.5%-3%. He said that 1% would not be enough to advertise the property, and that those agents would certainly deliver the poorest service, which is exactly what I said in my reply

I forgot nothing. Rates vary, as does everything, and starting points for negotiation are anywhere from 1% (common) to 1.5% (common) to 2% or more (rare) with an average of 1.5% or less as others have pointed out.

But in spite of that average there are plenty of agents in the UK who will sell a property worth the average price of a semi-decent condo here (say 3MB) for 1% commission, whereas an agent here might want 5% and one in the US might want 6%.

As for how good a service the 1% UK agents give, who cares? Their only job is to sell the property. If they do so they get their commission and if they dont another agent will get it. They are all just salesmen.

If your friend thinks that you need to spend anything like 1% of the value of a property on advertising in the UK then I really dont know which planet he is living on.

More half-truths and denigration, seems you forgot something again UK commission rates go up to 3%, I guess the actual reality is inconvenient. What are you trying to accomplish by disparaging the real estate profession? Likely your distain for real estate brokers has been produced by hiring the lowest paid agents to do your work, they are quite possibly incompetent; my friend from the UK says 2.5%-3% for anyone with competent skills.

You never said how many deals you have been a party to? What is your experience in the business? Have you ever been a broker? How many years have you worked in real estate? The perspective you suggest does not reflect the reality of the business, your comments expose an outsider looking in.

I’m 37 years in the business, I have the experience to back up what I’m talking about, I don’t say that to brag it’s just the truth. As I sit here I’m working on closing 4 deals, I have showings arranged for the early afternoon, late afternoon I’ll be assisting a client with financing at a bank, I’m planning the promotion a new waterfront listing I just obtained, tonight I’ll be prospecting the foreclosure market. I actually work in the business, have you ever worked the real estate business?

Demeaning the real estate business and its brokers may be entertaining for you but I consider it a waste of time, all we have done since you started interacting with me on this thread is discuss commission rates and your belief that real estate sales requires no skill. The theory of how to accomplish aspects of the trade has been lost with this pointless babble. People are reading this thread trying to acquire knowledge they can use to make better decisions in their real estate activities.

I would much prefer a discussion on the theories, techniques and the application of the principals that affect real estate transactions. Such as: do you have any recommendations regarding appraising value? What are your prospecting techniques? Do you know any interesting financing techniques? Marketing strategies? The impact you believe higher interest rates will have on values? What are your methods when you approach those skill-sets? These more constructive subjects are interesting discussions that people looking for some insight might appreciate and certainly I would much prefer that type of discussion.

[KittenKong]

Seems you forgot to mention that only the lowest paid agents in the UK would earn a 1% fee and that the majority of UK real estate commission rates are not 1% but are 2.5%-3%. He said that 1% would not be enough to advertise the property, and that those agents would certainly deliver the poorest service, which is exactly what I said in my reply

I forgot nothing. Rates vary, as does everything, and starting points for negotiation are anywhere from 1% (common) to 1.5% (common) to 2% or more (rare) with an average of 1.5% or less as others have pointed out.

But in spite of that average there are plenty of agents in the UK who will sell a property worth the average price of a semi-decent condo here (say 3MB) for 1% commission, whereas an agent here might want 5% and one in the US might want 6%.

As for how good a service the 1% UK agents give, who cares? Their only job is to sell the property. If they do so they get their commission and if they dont another agent will get it. They are all just salesmen.

If your friend thinks that you need to spend anything like 1% of the value of a property on advertising in the UK then I really dont know which planet he is living on.

More half-truths and denigration, seems you forgot something again UK commission rates go up to 3%, I guess the actual reality is inconvenient.

Which part of "2% or more" doesn't include the number "3"?

But, as I mentioned, these high figures are very rare. In fact so rare that I have never come across them, and neither has anyone else I have spoken to in the UK about the subject.

Plenty of agents sell houses for much lower commission. And even if the 3% was the UK norm, which it certainly isn't, how would that explain 5 or 6% being the norm here or elsewhere?

What are you trying to accomplish by disparaging the real estate profession? Likely your distain for real estate brokers has been produced by hiring the lowest paid agents to do your work, they are quite possibly incompetent; my friend from the UK says 2.5%-3% for anyone with competent skills.

AS I said, your friend appears to be living on another planet. And you mistake me for someone who gives a damn about estate agents. I dont care about them any more than I care about car salesmen or double-glazing salesmen, which they very closely resemble. They are all just salesmen and as such can only be considered as being insincere and ephemeral at best, and plain dishonest at worst. So not exactly the sort of person that I would be inclined to lose any sleep over.

The last house I sold I sold myself. I got just under 700,000EUR for it, with two serious buyers making offers, having been informed by many real estate professionals that it would probably not sell for more than 550,000, and maybe less than 500,000. One even said he would not list it at more than 400,000. Had I listened to them I would have been at least 150,000EUR + 2% commission (the negotiable norm in that country) worse off than having done it myself. Thankfully I didn't listen to them.

[Robert2006]

KittenKong

More insults and denigration. I won't spend more of my time interaction with you, its pointless. You have no skills or theory to discuss just disparaging insults. Another fairytale about real estate agents, appraising your property150,000 EUR low, yea right. Come on man give it up, maybe others believe your stories but I certainly do not.

[ThaiBob]

KK recent experience on selling goes to my point about UK marketing and information is not shared. Maybe the first agents with the low numbers came from one of those 1% agents. A professional American agent would have nailed the appraisal and if he didn't the formal appraisal by a licensed professional appraiser would have. In America you are bound by the formal appraisal because that is all the mortgage companies will lend unless you are fortunate to find a cash buyer.

Equating sales agents in UK and Pattaya with cars salesmen might work for some people but I hope they realize their are countries in the world where the real estate professional is a highly trained, self motivated person, licensed with business and personal ethics.

[DLock]

Comparing Real Estate Agents in Thailand to Used Car Salesmen might be a stretch.

Used Car Sales understand cars, can tell you about the vehicle, can explain how to finance, warranty and the legality of ownership etc etc.

Real Estate People in Thailand show you a property. That's it. Ask about legality of 30+30+30 year leases, or clear access, or leasing Vs. company ownership, where the chanot boundary markers are located, zoning, or...pretty much anything besides how many bathrooms it has...and see the response.

Clueless.

[i claudius]

KittenKong

More insults and denigration. I won't spend more of my time interaction with you, its pointless. You have no skills or theory to discuss just disparaging insults. Another fairytale about real estate agents, appraising your property150,000 EUR low, yea right. Come on man give it up, maybe others believe your stories but I certainly do not.

I agree just posting any old rubbish ,throw it against a wall and some will stick.

[2008bangkok]

In fairness, 1% in the western world makes a lot more than 3% in Thailand.

Not really. Plenty of decent houses and flats (condos) in the UK are for sale for about what I paid for my Jomtien condo. Other parts of the EU also have many nice properties available in the same price range.

You aint going to get anything decent for under 100k in the UK, the average price house is over 250k and that is the average, so that must one decent condo you got yourself in Jomtiem.

[KittenKong]

KittenKong

More insults and denigration. I won't spend more of my time interaction with you, its pointless. You have no skills or theory to discuss just disparaging insults. Another fairytale about real estate agents, appraising your property150,000 EUR low, yea right. Come on man give it up, maybe others believe your stories but I certainly do not.

I see no denigration or insults in calling a spade a spade, or a salesman a salesman. Whether you like it or not, agents in Thailand and in the UK (and in several other countries I have lived in) need no training or qualifications to do their job. So in my book this makes them simple salesmen, exactly as I described. If you have another theory you can give it.

You have described a number of functions performed by US agents that you think sets them above the rest. I dont see it, and many of these functions dont seem to be applicable to normal residential purchases anyway, so why should I as a residential vendor pay you 6% commission to cover extra services that the buyer does not even require?

If I want/need a mortgage, the issuing bank works out whether I am good for it or not, not an agent. If I want to buy property for letting my accountant would work out my projected costs and profits, not an agent. The list goes on.

If the buyer wants these services, he can pay for them himself and get them where he wishes.

As for you not believing me, given the nature of your job I'm not at all surprised. Suffice it to say that I managed to work professionally for 30+ years until I retired without ever telling a single lie or partial truth to anyone. Indeed my entire clientèle was developed by word of mouth based on the fact that I always recommended the best option for them, regardless of whether it would earn me more money or not. Since I retired I have never needed to lie to anyone about anything either, which is how I have always handled my private life.

This is probably not something that a salesmen would understand.

[KittenKong]

Not really. Plenty of decent houses and flats (condos) in the UK are for sale for about what I paid for my Jomtien condo. Other parts of the EU also have many nice properties available in the same price range.

You aint going to get anything decent for under 100k in the UK, the average price house is over 250k and that is the average, so that must one decent condo you got yourself in Jomtiem.

It depends largely on the area. There are perfectly decent small semis for sale in parts of the UK for 60-70KGBP which corresponds to the 3MB you might need to get an acceptable condo here. Anyway, the nature of the property has no real impact on the level of the commission required, which is the topic here.

[ThaiBob]

KittenKong

More insults and denigration. I won't spend more of my time interaction with you, its pointless. You have no skills or theory to discuss just disparaging insults. Another fairytale about real estate agents, appraising your property150,000 EUR low, yea right. Come on man give it up, maybe others believe your stories but I certainly do not.

I see no denigration or insults in calling a spade a spade, or a salesman a salesman. Whether you like it or not, agents in Thailand and in the UK (and in several other countries I have lived in) need no training or qualifications to do their job. So in my book this makes them simple salesmen, exactly as I described. If you have another theory you can give it.

You have described a number of functions performed by US agents that you think sets them above the rest. I dont see it, and many of these functions dont seem to be applicable to normal residential purchases anyway, so why should I as a residential vendor pay you 6% commission to cover extra services that the buyer does not even require?

If I want/need a mortgage, the issuing bank works out whether I am good for it or not, not an agent. If I want to buy property for letting my accountant would work out my projected costs and profits, not an agent. The list goes on.

If the buyer wants these services, he can pay for them himself and get them where he wishes.

As for you not believing me, given the nature of your job I'm not at all surprised. Suffice it to say that I managed to work professionally for 30+ years until I retired without ever telling a single lie or partial truth to anyone. Indeed my entire clientèle was developed by word of mouth based on the fact that I always recommended the best option for them, regardless of whether it would earn me more money or not. Since I retired I have never needed to lie to anyone about anything either, which is how I have always handled my private life.

This is probably not something that a salesmen would understand.

These comments may very well be applicable to the UK real estate market which I admittedly know little about. But I do know calling or implying a real estate professional in America is nothing more than a salesman is a denigration from somebody who is ignorant on American real estate marketing. In Pattaya, all I see is a lot of whining about commission rates and service, and an acceptance of a flawed,imported, mediocre UK real estate philosophy. There are no real constructive suggestions on how to fix a system that needs fixing.

[Rimmer]

This is Thailand and this is a discussion forum about Pattaya so can we confine our discussion to what goes on here please,

ta very much

[Ace of Pop]

Why is it called Real Estate. Silly Yank name is it. Estate Agents seems the correct name..

[LennyW]

Why is it called Real Estate. Silly Yank name is it. Estate Agents seems the correct name..

Estate agents deal in Real estate.

[Rimmer]

Personal attack, bickering and flaming posts removed. More of the same and the topic will be closed