Do Teachers from Your school Translate The Students' Fancy Names For You?

[Eliot Rosewater]

Does anyone not think that it is important, whilst teaching the students the importance of learning a foreign language and sharing cultural ideas, to just show a little effort at their language?

Why should the students "get used" to someone saying their name incorrectly?

I agree

The students tell me it's ok but I reply I want to say their name correctly.

Reading Thai helps a lot but often names use unusual spelling.

I see each class 2 hours a week but this is my second year with mostly the same students.

I try to listen when the students call each other.

Again, imagine a Thai teacher hired to work in Britian; the teacher speaks English well enough but struggles with some pronunciation.

Now imagine a British Student named Larry getting offended and INSISTING that the teacher pronounce his name correctly.

What do you think the reaction would be when Larry complains to the headmaster? How would the headmaster respond?

How would the teacher feel? How many Thais do you know who could pronounce this name correctly.

You both seem to have some kind of weird "reverse colonial attitude," you ought to try to be more global in your thinking and realize that in an international environment that perfect pronunciation of foreign names is not always possible.

A bit of a contradiction there. One minute you are telling us to think more globally and then you are saying that it is OK to not bother with pronunciation.

Also...I would imagine that a Thai teacher with poor English pronunciation would not be hired to teach in Britain.

The contradiction exists only in your own mind; being globally aware is being of the understanding that people "TRY" to pronounce things correctly; however, to demand "perfect" pronunciation of cities and names is ridiculous and unrealistic.

"Also...I would imagine that a Thai teacher with poor English pronunciation would not be hired to teach in Britain."

Please find all the foreigners you know in Britian and check to make sure that they can say both the aspirated and non-aspirated "th" sound correctly. That is just an example; are you really (I mean REALLY) telling me that you think that a foreigner hired to work in GB must have PERFECT pronunciation???

I refuse to believe that you would be that stupid; however you may just prove me wrong!

[brianp0803]

In an English program with interest in studying abroad we need to try to correct their pronunciation.

Today I had a student talking about rhythm.

Difficult with a "r" and "th"

If I were studying Thai in America with a Thai teacher and her English pronunciation wasn't perfect is acceptable.

If she was teaching math then unacceptable.

But people planning to stay long term in Thailand should put effort to say their names correctly.

Size of class and frequency of meeting the students would affect ability to say all name near correct.

I try hard and my students say very good but when I hear the Thai teacher say their names I feel I am not saying their names correctly.

But the students know I am trying to say correctly.

[Eliot Rosewater]

In an English program with interest in studying abroad we need to try to correct their pronunciation.

Today I had a student talking about rhythm.

Difficult with a "r" and "th"

If I were studying Thai in America with a Thai teacher and her English pronunciation wasn't perfect is acceptable.

If she was teaching math then unacceptable.

But people planning to stay long term in Thailand should put effort to say their names correctly.

Size of class and frequency of meeting the students would affect ability to say all name near correct.

I try hard and my students say very good but when I hear the Thai teacher say their names I feel I am not saying their names correctly.

But the students know I am trying to say correctly.

One of the best math teachers I ever had was from Eastern Europe; he had a thick accent and was at times difficult to understand.

I learned more from him than any native speaking math teacher I ever had.

He made an effort though; and that was understood and appreciated.

[brianp0803]

At university level this is normal.

I had a professor that took me a long time to understand his pronunciation of the diagonal of matrices.

"Die gone al"

[puchooay]

@Eliot Rosewater

Another contradiction. You said, and I quote, "Thai teacher".

Now you say, and I quote, " a foreigner hired to work".

A vast difference between someone working in education and someone building a national stadium, for example.

Not me being stupid, I'm afraid.

After over 16 years teaching in Thailand I have found that those that put the effort in with Thai language are the ones that get the most respect from the students.

That is exactly what I said in my post " a little effort". I have not mentioned anything about "perfect".

Edited October 16, 2014 by puchooay

[Eliot Rosewater]

@Eliot Rosewater

Another contradiction. You said, and I quote, "Thai teacher".

Now you say, and I quote, " a foreigner hired to work".

A vast difference between someone working in education and someone building a national stadium, for example.

Not me being stupid, I'm afraid.

After over 16 years teaching in Thailand I have found that those that put the effort in with Thai language are the ones that get the most respect from the students.

That is exactly what I said in my post " a little effort". I have not mentioned anything about "perfect".

Sorry my friend, again you are misled.

Many teachers in the US have foreign accents; especially in hispanic communities. This is accepted as part of our culture. They often mispronounce many words and cannot make certain sounds in English. We accept this, as it represents a large contingent of our population. Take for example the Spanish lady character on Modern Family. Children get enough exposure to the native tongue to not be influenced by their minor mistakes.

In addition, many immigrants from....say Russia for example may have come here when they were children. Their accent is never perfect, there are always little flaws. Many of them have chosen to be teachers and this is accepted.

The best international schools in the world make it a point to hire homeroom teachers in elementary from countries all over the world. Go to ISB or NIST here in Thailand and you will see that. These people have accents. Their accent is not perfect. "Theodore" is often pronounced "Teodore" etc.

[puchooay]

@Eliot Rosewater

Another contradiction. You said, and I quote, "Thai teacher".

Now you say, and I quote, " a foreigner hired to work".

A vast difference between someone working in education and someone building a national stadium, for example.

Not me being stupid, I'm afraid.

After over 16 years teaching in Thailand I have found that those that put the effort in with Thai language are the ones that get the most respect from the students.

That is exactly what I said in my post " a little effort". I have not mentioned anything about "perfect".

Sorry my friend, again you are misled.

Many teachers in the US have foreign accents; especially in hispanic communities. This is accepted as part of our culture. They often mispronounce many words and cannot make certain sounds in English. We accept this, as it represents a large contingent of our population. Take for example the Spanish lady character on Modern Family. Children get enough exposure to the native tongue to not be influenced by their minor mistakes.

In addition, many immigrants from....say Russia for example may have come here when they were children. Their accent is never perfect, there are always little flaws. Many of them have chosen to be teachers and this is accepted.

The best international schools in the world make it a point to hire homeroom teachers in elementary from countries all over the world. Go to ISB or NIST here in Thailand and you will see that. These people have accents. Their accent is not perfect. "Theodore" is often pronounced "Teodore" etc.

Indeed. That is twice now that you have misled me by changing your story.

[Eliot Rosewater]

@Eliot Rosewater

Another contradiction. You said, and I quote, "Thai teacher".

Now you say, and I quote, " a foreigner hired to work".

A vast difference between someone working in education and someone building a national stadium, for example.

Not me being stupid, I'm afraid.

After over 16 years teaching in Thailand I have found that those that put the effort in with Thai language are the ones that get the most respect from the students.

That is exactly what I said in my post " a little effort". I have not mentioned anything about "perfect".

Sorry my friend, again you are misled.

Many teachers in the US have foreign accents; especially in hispanic communities. This is accepted as part of our culture. They often mispronounce many words and cannot make certain sounds in English. We accept this, as it represents a large contingent of our population. Take for example the Spanish lady character on Modern Family. Children get enough exposure to the native tongue to not be influenced by their minor mistakes.

In addition, many immigrants from....say Russia for example may have come here when they were children. Their accent is never perfect, there are always little flaws. Many of them have chosen to be teachers and this is accepted.

The best international schools in the world make it a point to hire homeroom teachers in elementary from countries all over the world. Go to ISB or NIST here in Thailand and you will see that. These people have accents. Their accent is not perfect. "Theodore" is often pronounced "Teodore" etc.

Indeed. That is twice now that you have misled me by changing your story.

My point is this and only this

Non native speakers of a language will always mispronounce things; we accept this as long as we know they are doing their best

This applies to Thais also; a western teacher cannot be expected to pronounce everyones name correctly all the time; Thais must accept and get used to it

[lostinisaan]

"If I were studying Thai in America with a Thai teacher and her English pronunciation wasn't perfect is acceptable."

A friend of mine, a German English teacher, married to a Thai high school teacher, had to make a very difficult decision. Moving to Thailand, to be able to stay with his family, instead of only seeing them twice a year, or looking for a decent job for his "well educated" Thai wife in Germany.

I had a job for him at my former school "secured" and he could have started immediately. But you should have seen his face, when they offered him 26 K, as a starting salary. And I do agree that working full time on such a salary is more than a joke.

To make a long and boring story short, my friend must have spent weeks to find an appropriate position for his Thai wife in Germany, having all her "degree stuff and other documentations." Nobody in Europe would want to see that she'd attended one of my seminars.....

Three "jobs" were offered for his wife. One was being a waitress at a "Autobahn" ( German highway) restaurant. The second was a job at a well-known burger chain, as a hamburger producer. The best available position was at a two star hotel, being a clerk's left hand.

It wouldn't be acceptable when you want to learn Thai, if the Thai teacher can't pronounce words in English properly.

.

[Scott]

I notice that there is starting to be the unending, circular arguments about who should teach/not teach, who can teach/who can't teach, etc., etc., etc.. This topic is about transliterating names. Stick to the topic.

[NYGuy816]

Ooh, 800 and 500 means the same thing ! I work in a bilingual school and the kids know how to write their full names as well as their nicknames in English. The Thai coordinators where the ones who hand the grading sheet to me, complete with the list of students' first and last name transcribed in English. But you're right, I still get surprised with the disparity of the translation of their names between spoken and written. So re your problem, why not ask a Thai teacher for some help translating and tell them that you do the grading? Good luck pal.

[Scott]

For the younger children, we ask the parents to give us the proper spelling of the name.

If the parents don't have one or don't know how best to transliterate it, then the Thai teacher (or one of the coordinators who is particularly adept at it) does a transliteration and we get the parents approval.

[lostinisaan]

For the younger children, we ask the parents to give us the proper spelling of the name.

If the parents don't have one or don't how best to transliterate it, then the Thai teacher (or one of the coordinators who is particularly adept at it) does a transliteration and we get the parents approval.

Most parents of our school speak a famous Isaan slang. Most parents don't speak a word of English, so you're roughly speaking on your own.

I understand that it differs in Bangkok. Our Thai coordinator is overloaded with other things and when she tells you tomorrow, it could be tomorrow in one month.

It's just a little town in Sisaket province. Even the grade six students' English is amazingly bad.

[Scott]

Well, I also take care of some schools that are pretty rural and the parents don't have a clue, but they get first chance at the transliteration. We have a separate space on the name sheet for the name in English, so all names have to be transliterated. The report card is sent out in English.

Living in an area with better English doesn't solve the problem. It complicates it. Then we have parents that have transliterated one way, a Thai teacher who disagrees and a student who may spell it completely differently!

Until they are in about the 3rd grade it is a pain in the backside.