Why So Many Ladyboys In Thailand?

[Bangkok Barry]

Does anyone have any suggestions about why there are so many ladyboys in Thailand?

Sure, many countries have the occasional one here and there, but they are so much a part of life in Thailand, and on the whole are very much accepted by society. You'll often get no more than a sideways glance and snigger now and then when one is encountered by the locals, and often not even that.

I'm not talking about the hardcore bitches that stalk Sukhumvit and Beach Road - just the ones that hold normal jobs in offices and shops and restaurants.

I hold nothing against them - those I've met are often very nice people. It's just that there are so many of them. There are so many transvestite shows, too, and so many men dressed as women in Thai soap operas and comedy shows.

No doubt I'll have many brainless comments in reply , but I know many of you are able to offer some sensible answers.

[tourleadersi]

There is a social acceptance of Ladyboys in Thailand unlike almost any other country. If that was applied to other countries, perhaps there would be similar numbers seen elsewhere?

I was sat having a coffe with my wife the other day and she pointed about a cluster of school kids walking by. In the centre were 3 ladyboys probably 12-13 years old. Every one was walking along and chatting just like any scene in any part of the world. "What do you think of that?" My wife asked. "I'd give them about 30 seconds in England" was my reply.

If it occurs at such a young age when children are still forming thier own opinions (and prejudices) then the kids who are not ladyboys accept it as a norm as they enter adulthood.

Couple that with the fact that a lot of them do look very attractive as women. The thought that must stop many western men deciding to change, you know "If I dress up like a lady I'm gonna look like a truck" doesn't really apply out here.

The cabarets are there because it is big business. They wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the demand.

[alexth]

There is a social acceptance of Ladyboys in Thailand unlike almost any other country. If that was applied to other countries, perhaps there would be similar numbers seen elsewhere?

I was sat having a coffe with my wife the other day and she pointed about a cluster of school kids walking by. In the centre were 3 ladyboys probably 12-13 years old. Every one was walking along and chatting just like any scene in any part of the world. "What do you think of that?" My wife asked. "I'd give them about 30 seconds in England" was my reply.

If it occurs at such a young age when children are still forming thier own opinions (and prejudices) then the kids who are not ladyboys accept it as a norm as they enter adulthood.

Couple that with the fact that a lot of them do look very attractive as women. The thought that must stop many western men deciding to change, you know doesn't really apply out here.

The cabarets are there because it is big business. They wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the demand.

"If I dress up like a lady I'm gonna look like a truck"..that's a good one.

As for the cabaret shows, well, most of the people go there for fun, it's interesting to see a bunch of men dressed and acting like girls, it's an interesting experience and I'm quite sure that everybody present that evening at that show was in for the same reason, I don't think it has something to do with the demand of ladyboys.

[tourleadersi]

There is a social acceptance of Ladyboys in Thailand unlike almost any other country. If that was applied to other countries, perhaps there would be similar numbers seen elsewhere?

I was sat having a coffe with my wife the other day and she pointed about a cluster of school kids walking by. In the centre were 3 ladyboys probably 12-13 years old. Every one was walking along and chatting just like any scene in any part of the world. "What do you think of that?" My wife asked. "I'd give them about 30 seconds in England" was my reply.

If it occurs at such a young age when children are still forming thier own opinions (and prejudices) then the kids who are not ladyboys accept it as a norm as they enter adulthood.

Couple that with the fact that a lot of them do look very attractive as women. The thought that must stop many western men deciding to change, you know doesn't really apply out here.

The cabarets are there because it is big business. They wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the demand.

"If I dress up like a lady I'm gonna look like a truck"..that's a good one.

As for the cabaret shows, well, most of the people go there for fun, it's interesting to see a bunch of men dressed and acting like girls, it's an interesting experience and I'm quite sure that everybody present that evening at that show was in for the same reason, I don't think it has something to do with the demand of ladyboys.

You're right. I meant the demand for 'men dressed up as ladies' as opposed to anything else, and they are great fun. Took my parents to a show last year, loved it. Great dancing, costumes and at times humour. Would recommend it to anyone.

[percy2]

Does anyone have any suggestions about why there are so many ladyboys in Thailand?

Sure, many countries have the occasional one here and there, but they are so much a part of life in Thailand, and on the whole are very much accepted by society. You'll often get no more than a sideways glance and snigger now and then when one is encountered by the locals, and often not even that.

I'm not talking about the hardcore bitches that stalk Sukhumvit and Beach Road - just the ones that hold normal jobs in offices and shops and restaurants.

I hold nothing against them - those I've met are often very nice people. It's just that there are so many of them. There are so many transvestite shows, too, and so many men dressed as women in Thai soap operas and comedy shows.

No doubt I'll have many brainless comments in reply , but I know many of you are able to offer some sensible answers.

GF insists that its the amount of hormones in chicken here.

She said that there had been a study in th US that backed this up. Sorry no reference.

[tourleadersi]

Does anyone have any suggestions about why there are so many ladyboys in Thailand?

Sure, many countries have the occasional one here and there, but they are so much a part of life in Thailand, and on the whole are very much accepted by society. You'll often get no more than a sideways glance and snigger now and then when one is encountered by the locals, and often not even that.

I'm not talking about the hardcore bitches that stalk Sukhumvit and Beach Road - just the ones that hold normal jobs in offices and shops and restaurants.

I hold nothing against them - those I've met are often very nice people. It's just that there are so many of them. There are so many transvestite shows, too, and so many men dressed as women in Thai soap operas and comedy shows.

No doubt I'll have many brainless comments in reply , but I know many of you are able to offer some sensible answers.

GF insists that its the amount of hormones in chicken here.

She said that there had been a study in th US that backed this up. Sorry no reference.

Interesting. I must admit, after a bucket of KFC I do feel kinda fruity!!! Makes me walk funny a couple of hours later too....

[thohts]

Perhaps part of the social acceptance is that so many of them grow up to be "beautiful" (from the Thai perspective).

Ever seen any Western ladyboys? Kind of makes me gag. If Western ladyboys looked more like women, I think there'd be more social acceptance rather than people thinking of their sexual identity as some kind of joke.

[the swagman]

Taught at a private boys school for a short time. The classes range from kindergarten to the last year of high school. There were boys there at the age of 10 -11 who already knew they were different and played up to the fact.

I don't know what it is over here but they start young. I remember when I was 11 I was still pulling the wings off flys. And I hated girls. (Well not that much)

Perhaps the fact that few of the thai yoputh get a chance to excel in any particular skill or art and they watch tv with all the stereotypes and it seems a quick fix to the road of fame. Or at least they get noticed at school.

It is unfortunate that many of them do't grow out of it and it gets reinforced in society.

Mores the pity.

Edited July 25, 2006 by the swagman

[PeaceBlondie]

Good comments. We have several topics in the Gay in Thailand forum, which you're welcome to read and comment upon. Who is a ladyboy, a gay, what kind of gay, whether it's in the brain or it's cultural; a khatoey, cross dressers, transsexuals, etc.

Why not leave this discussion in General Topics for now, because it's not clear yet what we're talking about. Yes, really!

I always enjoy a cabaret (well, no more often than once a month). I assume many tourists during high season don't know that the dancers dressed as female are not females, or at least weren't born with female 'bits' as the Brits say.

For two years, I taught Matayom 1, ages 11 to 13. Yes, even there, perhaps 5% to 10% of the boys, who must dress in male uniform, are acting the role of a femme gay-kathoey.

[Ling Kae]

GF insists that its the amount of hormones in chicken here.

She said that there had been a study in th US that backed this up. Sorry no reference.

Interesting. I must admit, after a bucket of KFC I do feel kinda fruity!!! Makes me walk funny a couple of hours later too....

Oh come on tourleadersi you can come out now, wasn't it you with a couple of mates cross dressing in a photo on another thread

Bangkok Barry, I think it is the tolerance that Thais are famous for that provides for a atmosphere of be who you are and wear what you want to wear without being judged. I have no problems with Katoys, good on em for expressing themselves.

Edited July 25, 2006 by Ling Kae

[tourleadersi]

Interesting. I must admit, after a bucket of KFC I do feel kinda fruity!!! Makes me walk funny a couple of hours later too....

Oh come on tourleadersi you can come out now, wasn't it you with a couple of mates cross dressing in a photo on another thread

Such slander. ooohhhhh, if you were in range I would belt you one across the head with my little handbag!

Sorry to dissapoint you but it wasn't me in those pics, although I did dress up as a lady once for a tarts and vicars evening. I looked like the kind of character that occupies most convicted prisoners nightmares the last night before they go into prison. Bubba in a dress basically. Even I was scared to look in the mirror, I had to sneak up on it from one side. I mean if ugliness were bricks, then I'd have been the Great Wall of China.

[astral]

There is a social acceptance of Ladyboys in Thailand unlike almost any other country. If that was applied to other countries, perhaps there would be similar numbers seen elsewhere?

This exactly right.

I remember seeing a group of teenagers, boys and girls, in a Mall in Korat.

One boy was so effeminate , but he was obviously accepted as part of the group.

Could that happen in your country?

[mittheimp]

One of the reasons Thailand is more tolerant of sexuality than other countries is that unlike other main religions - particularly the three western religions - Buddhism doesn't forbid or even concern itself with 'correct sexual practice' - hence homosexuality / transvestism / transexuality can't be condemned from a religious point of view.

[a2396]

I have wondered the same myself. The ladyboys I see here are not in caberets, but are regular students in high school and college, etc. I think they may find it gives them some added appeal for "nailing" the Thai ladys. A few of them I know (Thai ladies) seem to find the ladyboys appealing. I think the ladies also rationalse that, if they have sex with a ladyboy, they are not having sex with a man, ie " I have no boyfriends" ladyboys don't count as boyfriends. Quite assinine reasoning. I think there is also a lot of hidden lesbianism here. The ladies wouldn't admit it if they were slapped in the face with the facts. To me, it is just another chapter in the amount of untruthfullness in social interactions here.

[jdinasia]

huh?

[mittheimp]

I have wondered the same myself. The ladyboys I see here are not in caberets, but are regular students in high school and college, etc. I think they may find it gives them some added appeal for "nailing" the Thai ladys. A few of them I know (Thai ladies) seem to find the ladyboys appealing. I think the ladies also rationalse that, if they have sex with a ladyboy, they are not having sex with a man, ie " I have no boyfriends" ladyboys don't count as boyfriends. Quite assinine reasoning. I think there is also a lot of hidden lesbianism here. The ladies wouldn't admit it if they were slapped in the face with the facts. To me, it is just another chapter in the amount of untruthfullness in social interactions here.

utter and complete nonsense!

[leftcross]

as has been said before, i think it is because thais look quite androgenous anyway and many men can look very convincing as women.

in a lot of cases you only have a gut feeling everything isnt as your eye is telling you.

they look good and command admiration whereas a western 'ladyboy' often looks like les dawson in drag.

[maerkus]

Ever seen any Western ladyboys? Kind of makes me gag. If Western ladyboys looked more like women, I think there'd be more social acceptance rather than people thinking of their sexual identity as some kind of joke.

Visit Italy, Rome sometime. There are certain areas that are full of really attractive looking girls - until they start to talk with so low sound that many guys would be jealous. Without this male voice you wouldn't notice the difference. Only thing I'd be worry about.. if somebody has also right kind of voice..

[Thaiboxer]

Gays and "khatoeys" are definitely more accepted in society here than they would be in the US or England. An English friend of mine said that if you were gay and let people know, you would either have to be crazy or so tough that nobody would mess with you. I've taught many students since moving here to Thailand and a good number have been gay. Most of the gay guys tended to be very good in English and caused few problems in the classroom.

[Lacoste]

For the guys interested in this why dont you go to {link removed}

This thread should be moved to the gay section out of the way of us good folk.

mod edit; do not post porn sites

Edited July 25, 2006 by Boo

[mittheimp]

Us good prejudiced folk who like to brag about their annual income you mean?

[jdinasia]

For the guys interested in this why dont you go to [link removed]

This thread should be moved to the gay section out of the way of us good folk.

yeah ... pretty sure the gaybaiting just isn't nice ... but posting a porn link .... well ....

[Boo]

This thread should be moved to the gay section out of the way of us good folk.

Hmm, maybe some good folk need to keep their predjudice out of this forum.

[leftcross]

you aint gay if you find a ladyboy attractive <deleted>. some of them look better than 99% of the real thing!

[Heng]

A friend of mine keeps a room to hang out in (mostly to deal with tenants who like to be conveniently "away" on rent day) above Walking Street over one of the properties she lets out in Pattaya. It's a great place to people watch. Either a lot of farangs can't tell the difference, are oriented in whatever way is keen towards ladyboys, or are simply experimenting. I'd suspect that the 'can't tell the difference' crowd usually catch on sooner or later and have to rationalize whether it's "gay" or not.

[OZONE]

I have wondered the same myself. The ladyboys I see here are not in caberets, but are regular students in high school and college, etc. I think they may find it gives them some added appeal for "nailing" the Thai ladys. A few of them I know (Thai ladies) seem to find the ladyboys appealing. I think the ladies also rationalse that, if they have sex with a ladyboy, they are not having sex with a man, ie " I have no boyfriends" ladyboys don't count as boyfriends. Quite assinine reasoning. I think there is also a lot of hidden lesbianism here. The ladies wouldn't admit it if they were slapped in the face with the facts. To me, it is just another chapter in the amount of untruthfullness in social interactions here.

utter and complete nonsense!

Can't agree with you more

Could it be as simple as Thai people in general are more open minded than the rest of the western societies?

[meadish_sweetball]

Take this with a pinch of salt, but I remember reading somewhere that some ladyboys are a result of gender roles of sons and daughters in Thai families, and that if there is no daughter in the family, one of the sons might take on the role in their stead. Has anyone else heard anything similar?

There are a few books in English on the subject as well, I remember seeing them at Asia Books.

[lannarebirth]

Take this with a pinch of salt, but I remember reading somewhere that some ladyboys are a result of gender roles of sons and daughters in Thai families, and that if there is no daughter in the family, one of the sons might take on the role in their stead. Has anyone else heard anything similar?

There are a few books in English on the subject as well, I remember seeing them at Asia Books.

I had not heard that, but I might look for a book on the subject. It sounds fascinating. One thing I think I've observed lately, is what appears to be a growing number of ladyboys joining the monkhood. I'd seen some before, but never as prevalent as I do now. You generally don't see monks looking in mirrors and fawning over each other. Am I the only one that's observed this? Sorry if it's OT.

[JRingo]

No doubt I'll have many brainless comments in reply , but I know many of you are able to offer some sensible answers.

I have a lot of ladyboy friends.

If you are not looking for sex, just good fun, I much prefer to be with katoeys.

If you show them some genuine respect, it has been my experience you get that

in return.

It is not easy being a katoey, they take insults on a daily basis and turn the other

cheek to it. This is a trait I greatly admire and indicates strong character.

Most of the katoeys I know are better educated than the average bargirl, speak better

English and are more fun to go out with.

They don’t whine and they don’t get pissy at the end of the month.

Of course this is my experience up-country, probably not the same in Pattaya.

It is difficult at first to be seen with them, as everyone, Thais and foreigners alike

assume that you are just another kinky sex tourist. I have learned not to care what

people think, it is their problem not mine. If they think I am a some sort of pervert

they are wrong, and they are the pervert for thinking it.

Why are there so many?

I heard it was because their Moms drank coconut milk while they were pregnant.

[sramkok-pratum]

you aint gay if you find a ladyboy attractive <deleted>. some of them look better than 99% of the real thing!

exectly right .. NONG POI she is so pretty .