Thai PM plays down British offer of help in beach murder probe

[draftvader]

If Britain were to forbid their citizens from visiting Thailand, something maybe would happen to bring justice in this case. Then again, maybe not, as in the case of the blue diamond.

Curiously enough it isn't that difficult for the UK to do that. All they need to do is raise the warnings on the FCO site to a certain level and then suddenly people would find out that they aren't ensured to travel to Thailand unless they pay a further premium on their travel insurance. A considerable premium would certainly help people choose a different country as their destination.

Interestingly the kind of people that check these kind of details make up the majority of what the general describes as "Quality Tourists". I wonder how long, and how hard, he would like his balls squeezed before he kicks certain people out of his life raft to feed the sharks.....

[GAZZPA]

That statement is rather telling and almost threat-like:

"Anyone can come to Thailand, but don't forget that what is our issue, is our issue," he said of British offer of help.

Can you imagine the UK allowing Thai help in their country?

Or what about the US lol

Why not? If an expert is needed and that particular field of expertise is best served by a foreigner then whats the problem? I don't see Englnad having any issues with that.

[Suffinator]

The General is failing to understand that whilst this may be considered an internal matter it was in fact two British nationals who were murdered and therefore in the interest of transparency and indeed finding those responsible Thailand should have granted the UK permission immediately to help with the investigation - should have been a joint effort - period!

The General can thank his lucky stars that the UK Prime Minister is a hapless, spineless moron. He can also thank his lucky stars that I'm not the British PM because I would have made a phone call and I wouldn't have asked for anything - I would have merely pointed out what WAS going to happen and any resistance would result in all diplomatic ties being severed. I would of also addressed the nation and told my countrymen of the issue and strongly advised that no British national travel to Thailand; a step further would have been to ensure that no person deciding to travel would have access to insurance.

Finally the good General can kiss goodbye to any trade agreements... I heard yesterday that some Thai nationalist thinks Thailand can live in isolation; we'll I'd certainly let them do without the UK.

As for me... unlike many others here just moaning about it and calling on tourists to boycott the place I did something about it... I left.

[spidermike007]

General, I've trusted you up to now.

You are making me to change my mind about your way of thinking and acting.

Be the man that you appeared to be at the beginning.

Don't let people stop trusting you and your judgement.

So many of us feel this way. He seemed to have good intentions in the beginning. I started to get skeptical when I saw that although they were doing some very minor clean up of illegal vendors in Phuket and Hua Hin, many of those vendors were back in two weeks. So although they did make an effort to get rid of them, there was no punishment for their crimes, nor enforcement of any kind, nor any follow up of any significance. On Samui, they came in and made the taxi mafia agree to use their meters (a decades old ongoing saga, and disaster), with the caveat that there would be a 50 baht surcharge. It lasted 4 days. You cannot find a taxi on Samui that is willing to use their meter today. Why? No enforcement, no punishment, and no follow up. A friend of mine was talking to a taxi driver the other day, and he was bragging that he earns 250,000 baht per month from one car. Is that necessary? No, of course not. Same goes for the mild, and temporary "crackdown" on the Phuket taxi creeps. It a system that has run amok, is completely broken, and neither the government nor the army seems to have any power or willingness to do anything. The Ark Bar continues to wreak havoc nearly every night, disturbing thousand along the coast of Samui, who paid thousands of baht per night for five star rooms and villas, and deserve silence. But they are getting anything but silence with these goombas cranking their 38 speakers, and 24 subwoofers, out onto the bay nearly every night per week. Is anything being done? No. Why? Well we sort of know the answer to that question. They are also untouchable.

Most people are under the illusion the army is very powerful. But, power is only power when it is used, and when the motivation is there to employ it. There has to be a desire on the part of the Army to really rock the boat. Quite the opposite. They are going after small fish, with no power. There is no interest in going after the big guys. This murder case demonstrates that. Millions know who the perp is. Why have they decided not to pursue him? The term above the law comes to mind. Even the law of the Army. It is as if their motto is: "Don't rock the boat. Don't go after anyone big of powerful. Don't upset the status quo. Go after the little guys, so it looks like we are helping the people." Their intentions may be good, but what good are good intentions without implementation of positive and real policy?

[billd766]

What on Earth would a so called professional soldier know about a criminal investigation and what was reliable or not? The mind boggles.

Equally what would an expat in Thailand know about a criminal investigation and what is reliable or not?

I certainly don't KNOW and I think more than 99% of the expats do either.

Either you accept it or not and you make up your own mind what you think.

That is only your or my opinion and that doesn't count for much over here.

[bendejo]

That statement is rather telling and almost threat-like:

"Anyone can come to Thailand, but don't forget that what is our issue, is our issue," he said of British offer of help.

Can you imagine the UK allowing Thai help in their country?

Or what about the US lol

They would make a movie about it, the Thai guy played by Jackie Chan.

[ParadiseLost]

General, I've trusted you up to now.

You are making me to change my mind about your way of thinking and acting.

Be the man that you appeared to be at the beginning.

Don't let people stop trusting you and your judgement.

So many of us feel this way. He seemed to have good intentions in the beginning. I started to get skeptical when I saw that although they were doing some very minor clean up of illegal vendors in Phuket and Hua Hin, many of those vendors were back in two weeks. So although they did make an effort to get rid of them, there was no punishment for their crimes, nor enforcement of any kind, nor any follow up of any significance. On Samui, they came in and made the taxi mafia agree to use their meters (a decades old ongoing saga, and disaster), with the caveat that there would be a 50 baht surcharge. It lasted 4 days.

To be fair Mike the people who should have ensured the changes were maintained are the police, not the army.

It would certainly not do any good to tourism to have army officers patrolling entertainment areas when there are police whose job it is in the first place. Only being fair, not a big fan of anyone or anything here, anymore.

[Gettingaround]

There's a very old proverb that seems appropriate ‘There is none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know’.

[ParadiseLost]

I have one:

Two flee, or not two flee - that is the question...

[buhi]

I have one:

Two flee, or not two flee - that is the question...

Or three to flee!

[mango66]

Dear Gen. Prim Prayouth !

And it is my thing to come , OR NOT TO COME ;

to Thailand again !!

Amen ;

[Krataiboy]

The Prime Minister has put himself in an untenable position. He praised and rewarded the police for "resolving" the case before it had even been brought to trial and can hardly be expected do an about-face now.

This is what happens when you are used to doing one job and suddenly find yourself in the hot-seat doing another. No professional politician would make be naive enough to make such a gaffe. I predict there will be more.

[CantSpell]

So, how many cheerleaders on here still think that corruption on high levels is gone?

Does anyone think that a certain color of shirt has consistently been favored, and another color of shirt chased down for various things?

Where are those people who think that this is the greatest thing since sliced bread?

Do some people still think there will be fundamental change, or is it becoming apparent that it's just the other side in charge now?

Exactly, I am losing more hope in any actual change on a daily basis.

From Phuket forums, Airport meter taxis now charging more than previous mafia.. Old taxi mafia had to adjust their prices up......

Corruption still seems to be going pretty well.

Koh Tao cases and possible high end cover up...

Same old same old it seems as per this article from The Diplomat website

http://thediplomat.com/2014/10/thai-junta-beset-by-corruption-scandals/

[CapFarmer]

That statement is rather telling and almost threat-like:

"Anyone can come to Thailand, but don't forget that what is our issue, is our issue," he said of British offer of help.

Can you imagine the UK allowing Thai help in their country?

Or what about the US lol

If another country wanted to see the evidence they would be welcome in the US. Can't say about the UK. But the investigation would be transparent, expertly done, and there would be nothing to hide.

This is about something to hide and it's being hidden from Burma who is complaining and from the UK who is complaining. If the Thais really have proof they need to show the world because they are quickly losing all credibility. Period.

Oh????

Gitmo comes to mind.....

Mini-touché; however, prisoners at Gitmo are war prisoners and most of the ones turned in maliciously for reward moneys have been freed by now.

[CapFarmer]

But what if for example a French couple were murdered in the USA? And then 2 poor illegal immigrant Mexicans were arrested and charged with their murders, the police claiming they have all the evidence against them. And then the French Government gives out a hint that they think the United States police force has a dubious reputation or are incompetent and only charged the Mexicans to save face as a cover up for something and probably would not trust the evidence even if the USA police were completely open with it, and then asks if it can send in their own French detectives to investigate the case? How do you think the United States government would respond to that?

This is the stark difference between Thailand and a Western country. In Thailand it's obvious that the government has total control with no transparency.

In the US, the French would bypass the government and contact the defense attorney. The defense attorney has a right to what's called "discovery" which means the prosecutor has to cough up all evidence to be examined before the trial. The defense attorney would have a right to the DNA from all parties and would have it independently collected and tested. If the French could offer any assistance the defense would jump at it.

The Mexicans would have DNA tests done at least twice; at least once by the defense. Everything would be transparent.

In the end, all records would be public records that any of us could go get copies of. The differences are over the moon.

Not sure what the actual law states in Thailand, but I know from experience that Thai prosecutors often do not provide their evidence to the defense either before, during or after any court proceedings and the court will often not release the evidence against an accused at any time, regardless of whether they are required to or not. Often, the accusation is the evidence and the status (read ability to pay bribes) of the accuser determines the validity.

Edited October 15, 2014 by CapFarmer

[CantSpell]

jtj,"no need to beat them, simply tell them the dna matched or WILL MATCH" So how would the police know before hand that the dna will match. Sounds like fit up to me.

Nono, JTJ told you so it must be true: "the DNA match!!"

question would be "which samples"?

Game, Set and MATCH..

[CapFarmer]

Don't forget the DNA tests according to 1 famous Thai, were done by unqualified people.

The test was actually performed by a gifted aroma therapist who has been quoted as saying "yes, smells like an emigrant from a country I will not name in deference to the PM's wishes. In fact, for the right price I will say anything in deference to the PM's wishes" ...

[joebrown]

One aspect of this 'charade' of a murder investigation has troubled and puzzled me from the moment I saw the accused Burmese boys supposedly re-enacting the crime on the beach. The RTP said they were wearing crash helmets and bullet/flak jackets to protect them from any 'lynch mob' seeking revenge.

More likely they were forced to wear the jackets to prevent them from being able to lift their T shirts to reveal any physical harm they may have suffered during their interrogation! I can't for one moment think they were in any danger. More likely is the scenario that the local people of influence would want to protect them, being non-Thai and a quick ready-made answer to the unthinkable consquence of the local tourist baht 'gravy train' being derailed.

[JenniferSG]

They are so afraid that the truth emerges....

Exactly. It is amazing how far in stupidity and insanity they can go, just to avoid the truth and fear to lose face.

2 innocent kids butchered on an island but strictly nobody in Thailand (besides social media), from bottom to top to say "ENOUGH". All, including the PM General, prefer to cover the story, protect the mafia and save the corruption.

This is really hard and sad to believe, but unfortunately the reality.

How can we humanly explain and understand this?

How can we swallow this and continue to look at the Thai smile or Wai in the same way?

Impossible... Something is definitely broken here.

I want to know why, 2 days after the murders, the pub crawl photos online are PACKED with Western boys and grls drunk out of their minds at the AC Bar among others. Why continue to give your money, or risk your life, when so little is thought of the value of your life there?

[belg]

the case is closed

and the quality tourists should come back quickly to spend their dollars & euros

[jdinasia]

That statement is rather telling and almost threat-like:

"Anyone can come to Thailand, but don't forget that what is our issue, is our issue," he said of British offer of help.

Can you imagine the UK allowing Thai help in their country?

Or what about the US lol

If another country wanted to see the evidence they would be welcome in the US. Can't say about the UK. But the investigation would be transparent, expertly done, and there would be nothing to hide.

This is about something to hide and it's being hidden from Burma who is complaining and from the UK who is complaining. If the Thais really have proof they need to show the world because they are quickly losing all credibility. Period.

Oh????

Gitmo comes to mind.....

Mini-touché; however, prisoners at Gitmo are war prisoners and most of the ones turned in maliciously for reward moneys have been freed by now.

Pardon.. But prisoners of war are protected by several international agreements.

Plus "most"?

Plus rendition..

Plus drone strikes...

[spidermike007]

General, I've trusted you up to now.

You are making me to change my mind about your way of thinking and acting.

Be the man that you appeared to be at the beginning.

Don't let people stop trusting you and your judgement.

So many of us feel this way. He seemed to have good intentions in the beginning. I started to get skeptical when I saw that although they were doing some very minor clean up of illegal vendors in Phuket and Hua Hin, many of those vendors were back in two weeks. So although they did make an effort to get rid of them, there was no punishment for their crimes, nor enforcement of any kind, nor any follow up of any significance. On Samui, they came in and made the taxi mafia agree to use their meters (a decades old ongoing saga, and disaster), with the caveat that there would be a 50 baht surcharge. It lasted 4 days.

To be fair Mike the people who should have ensured the changes were maintained are the police, not the army.

It would certainly not do any good to tourism to have army officers patrolling entertainment areas when there are police whose job it is in the first place. Only being fair, not a big fan of anyone or anything here, anymore.

I think the issue here is that the police are too compromised to make these sort of changes. Why were these people there to begin with? Who is profiting from this? Who profits from the hundreds of vendors up and down Sukhumvit who clog up the sidewalk to the point where you can barely walk? Since the army supposedly has more power than the police, we were all sort of hoping they would step in where needed. This has barely happened. They should have stepped in with the Koh Tao murder fiasco. Again, they did not.

[MediaWatcher]

andygunther, on 14 Oct 2014 - 23:10, said:

They are so afraid that the truth emerges....

With good reason, not only this investigation (I use the word lightly) but if it is should to be a cock up then it opens a very big can of worm, it would bring into question many other "investigations."

[ParadiseLost]

General, I've trusted you up to now.

You are making me to change my mind about your way of thinking and acting.

Be the man that you appeared to be at the beginning.

Don't let people stop trusting you and your judgement.

So many of us feel this way. He seemed to have good intentions in the beginning. I started to get skeptical when I saw that although they were doing some very minor clean up of illegal vendors in Phuket and Hua Hin, many of those vendors were back in two weeks. So although they did make an effort to get rid of them, there was no punishment for their crimes, nor enforcement of any kind, nor any follow up of any significance. On Samui, they came in and made the taxi mafia agree to use their meters (a decades old ongoing saga, and disaster), with the caveat that there would be a 50 baht surcharge. It lasted 4 days.

To be fair Mike the people who should have ensured the changes were maintained are the police, not the army.

It would certainly not do any good to tourism to have army officers patrolling entertainment areas when there are police whose job it is in the first place. Only being fair, not a big fan of anyone or anything here, anymore.

I think the issue here is that the police are too compromised to make these sort of changes. Why were these people there to begin with? Who is profiting from this? Who profits from the hundreds of vendors up and down Sukhumvit who clog up the sidewalk to the point where you can barely walk? Since the army supposedly has more power than the police, we were all sort of hoping they would step in where needed. This has barely happened. They should have stepped in with the Koh Tao murder fiasco. Again, they did not.

Giving them enough rope? RTP shortcomings are really being exposed - could be a very good reason to introduce tough reform if things don't improve.

[cbluck58]

Since every person capable of even semi-intelligent and independent thought knows this is a fit up, I would have thought he would appreciate the help of any reasonable outside professional policing - he could hold his hands up in the air , blame some lower echelon police personnel , save face and let the innocent fall guys carry on about their business whilst arresting some seriously unpleasant HISOs.

Still he is an army man and obviously knows all about policing - maybe while he is abroad he could recruit Inspector Morse to sort out the troubles in the South.

[atyclb]

Thailands leading forensic pathologist has already said the forensic aspect was bungled. This in of itself would seem to make the police dna evidence a moot point.

[Beetlejuice]

But what if for example a French couple were murdered in the USA? And then 2 poor illegal immigrant Mexicans were arrested and charged with their murders, the police claiming they have all the evidence against them. And then the French Government gives out a hint that they think the United States police force has a dubious reputation or are incompetent and only charged the Mexicans to save face as a cover up for something and probably would not trust the evidence even if the USA police were completely open with it, and then asks if it can send in their own French detectives to investigate the case? How do you think the United States government would respond to that?

This is the stark difference between Thailand and a Western country. In Thailand it's obvious that the government has total control with no transparency.

In the US, the French would bypass the government and contact the defense attorney. The defense attorney has a right to what's called "discovery" which means the prosecutor has to cough up all evidence to be examined before the trial. The defense attorney would have a right to the DNA from all parties and would have it independently collected and tested. If the French could offer any assistance the defense would jump at it.

The Mexicans would have DNA tests done at least twice; at least once by the defense. Everything would be transparent.

In the end, all records would be public records that any of us could go get copies of. The differences are over the moon.

At this stage I have no idea how much the Thai police have co-operated with the Burmese and British authorities as regards the evidence regarding this case. I don`t know what they have or don`t have unless the Burmese and British Governments make a statement.

Basically this is about the conspiracy theorists, the doubters, some do gooder organisations and those trying to discredit Thailand putting across that they do not trust the Thai police, consider the Thai police are a load of crap, and believe they are too incompetent to be able to investigate the case on their own and refuse to except the statements made by the Thai police as credible and therefore want the British or FBI to analyse the evidence and the investigation, and whatever they conclude will be the only results the conspiracy theorists and doubters may accept.

Well sorry, but this is not going to happen. What will happen is that the guys in custody will go to court and if found guilty will be either given life sentences or the death penalty, the British and Burmese authorities will not officially contest the decision of the Thai court, the sentences will be carried out, the tourists will return as per normal and that will be the end of it. As regarding the doubters, their accusations and crackpot conspiracy theories, these will remain in the social networking sites and officially will be shouting out to deaf ears.

That`s what`s going to happen whether you like it or not and whether the doubters except this or not is totally irrelevant, it won`t change anything or make the slightest difference as to the outcome of this case.

[SiggiCM]

General, I've trusted you up to now.

You are making me to change my mind about your way of thinking and acting.

Be the man that you appeared to be at the beginning.

Don't let people stop trusting you and your judgement.

Are you crazy? This man made the biggest crime in Thailand, he took over the power with weapons, he not respect a elected goverment, he not respect the constitution! He was the Army chief in one of the most corrupted countrys in the world, how he get this position? He and hes family they have assests what are 50 times more what they could ever earned in their job, even when counting they never spent any Baht or ever payed any tax.

Do you think this guy is Ghandi?

This is a criminal and one day he and the other guys from the junta will sit in prison for what they made

Edited October 15, 2014 by SiggiCM

[Beetlejuice]

General, I've trusted you up to now.

You are making me to change my mind about your way of thinking and acting.

Be the man that you appeared to be at the beginning.

Don't let people stop trusting you and your judgement.

Are you crazy? This man made the biggest crime in Thailand, he took over the power with weapons, he not respect a elected goverment, he not respect the constitution! He was the Army chief in one of the most corrupted countrys in the world, how he get this position? He and hes family they have assests what are 50 times more what they could ever earned in their job, even when counting they never spent any Baht or ever payed any tax.

Do you think this guy is Ghandi?

This is a criminal and one day he and the other guys from the junta will sit in prison for what they made

As I thought, most of this is political and just Thailand haters who are trying to use the tragic case of the murdered young British couple as a means to discredit the Thai Government and Thailand.

I would like to ask; are you Thai? Or what nationality are you? Do you stay in Thailand? What are your politics? And why do you bear such grievances against Thailand and in what ways does it affect you? Or in other words; what`s your problem?

[balo]

the P.M might feel he's being right you know, if he think the investigators did a great job why not tell the world ?