Murders on Koh Tao: UK, Myanmar 'can observe'

[sweatalot]

JTJ=troll. Don't feed the trolls.

I'm not so sure. Trolls generally have no interest either way & merely stir the sh1t for the sake of it. His posts lead me to believe that he might actually be working for the people he's defending; making him a digital Lord Haw Haw.

In a post in another thread i asked to whose advantage is he posting that toally unlogic stuff always telling the Burmese are guilty, no need to doubt the police.

Who could be interested in posting like him?

The real perp who wants scapegoats to avoid himself being discovered?

Or may be a keyboard merc?

[CapFarmer]

If you just don't trust police and the courts then I am sure the Train rapist and murderer just sentenced to death would love to see some of your advocacy sent his way. He too admitted his guilt and had DNA tests match and police too bungled that case initially and conflicting reports were also put out in the press and numerous unanswered questions there too.

I bet the train murderer wishes his daddy owned an island with his own pocket sized cops and politicians.

[kkup]

JohnThailandJohn is probably employed by Thaivisa to intentionally stir trouble

[sambum]

The BBC just announced that Britain's offer for help has been rejected.

This trial is going to be railroaded through regardless.

What a surprise! Look, but don't touch, and look at what? A bit like having a look at the bonfire after Guy Fawkes Night, but don't try to pick out any hidden/forgotten/lost roast spuds!!!

[kkup]

At the end of the day, these guys are toast. The government will not allow themselves to get embarrassed in front of the world media. It just can't happen. The only chance they have is if they can get a private body to redo the tests after sentencing, with co-operation from the British government to get access to the victims DNA. At least they can then publish the results so the world knows the gov and police fabricated everything. Maybe then the world human rights and a few others will pull their finger out.

[heyexile]

The BBC just announced that Britain's offer for help has been rejected.

This trial is going to be railroaded through regardless.

What a surprise! Look, but don't touch, and look at what? A bit like having a look at the bonfire after Guy Fawkes Night, but don't try to pick out any hidden/forgotten/lost roast spuds!!!

MYOB what the PM really said yesterday is in other press reports.

" don`t forget that what is our business should remain ours! I consider the case reliable."

Check out Andy Hall tweet: Prayut downplays British concerns, rebukes offer of help

http://twitter.com/Atomicalandy

[craigt3365]

Please, per forum rules:

10) Do not discuss moderation publicly in the open forum; this includes individual actions, and specific or general policies and issues. You may send a PM to a moderator to discuss individual actions or email support (at) thaivisa.com to discuss moderation policy.

[stephen terry]

At the end of the day, these guys are toast. The government will not allow themselves to get embarrassed in front of the world media. It just can't happen. The only chance they have is if they can get a private body to redo the tests after sentencing, with co-operation from the British government to get access to the victims DNA. At least they can then publish the results so the world knows the gov and police fabricated everything. Maybe then the world human rights and a few others will pull their finger out.

I agree that no-one should let this matter fade away. If the independent DNA results (if tested) indicate that the condemned are in fact not guilty, then the whole world must be shown. Only way to highlight (to Thailand) what truth means.

Even now, I am incensed that the RTP did NOT consider motive for the brutal slayings (but given the background of rape and murder on Koh Tao, I'm not surprised). A few posters on here have been ignored by the majority - the psychos THAI guys that did this wanted revenge. Naturally, it's only my opinion, and it counts for zero.

I suggest everyone filter in comments here that the ghosts of Hannah and David will haunt Koh Tao until the real perps are brought to justice. Only way to get a result.

[stephen terry]

The BBC just announced that Britain's offer for help has been rejected.

This trial is going to be railroaded through regardless.

What a surprise! Look, but don't touch, and look at what? A bit like having a look at the bonfire after Guy Fawkes Night, but don't try to pick out any hidden/forgotten/lost roast spuds!!!

MYOB what the PM really said yesterday is in other press reports.

" don`t forget that what is our business should remain ours! I consider the case reliable."

Check out Andy Hall tweet: Prayut downplays British concerns, rebukes offer of help

http://twitter.com/Atomicalandy

As he would do. It's about as reliable as snow falling in Koh Tao. If they've got nothing to hide, why would he rebuke offer of help? Don't tell me, I know. But I'm sure that the British government will regard that message as an offer to provide clandestine services. History relates that no-one can f***k with Britain and get away with it.

[balo]

so how are they going to do this ? walking around the island and collecting evidence together with the local police ?

[boomerangutang]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Why is it conspiracy theorists can't grasp the fact that these two admitted murdering rapists have lawyers who can run whatever DNA tests they want including getting the UK involved in the defense.

How do you come to that conclusion? TIT, I very much doubt the lawyer has any right to have more DNA tests run.

You are kidding right? You don't think the defense team is allowed to put on a defense or question evidence?

They without a doubt can submit their own test results to counter prosecution claims just as they can submit evidence to show confession were got illegally. Neither of which I believe will happen as I am fairly certain they will please guilty and show as much remorse as possible to escape the death penalty and have a chance to be able to see freedom again.

Where you been for several days JTJ? If you ask me, I'll say I don't think the defense team is allowed to put up a proper defense. What is it about the word 'frame-up' that you don't understand?

From the OP:

Sek said representatives from both countries would take part in the observation, while the police would assign liaison officers to directly coordinate with both countries. Documents on updates would be handed regularly to both countries during the observation process, he added.

It's called 'control'. Thai officialdom has had control of the proceedings all along, and they will continue to exert control. If I was a builder (who was cutting corners) and inspectors came to inspect the foundation, walls, roofs, etc. If I was able to CONTROL everywhere they looked, then they wouldn't find any flaws with my work. It's the same here. Thai officialdom is continuing to control 100% of what the so-called 'observers' see and hear. It's a continuation of the frame-up of the Burmese scapegoats, nothing less.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Why is it conspiracy theorists can't grasp the fact that these two admitted murdering rapists have lawyers who can run whatever DNA tests they want including getting the UK involved in the defense.

That would be because the only reliable DNA from the victims is in the UK, where the bodies were shipped.

So we would need someone from the UK to come to Thailand, take DNA samples from the accused, then return them to the UK for testing.

Nobody trusts the DNA samples held in Thailand to be 'original' or 'untampered'.

(except you apparently)

[stephen terry]

Re 134.

t's called 'control'. Thai officialdom has had control of the proceedings all along, and they will continue to exert control. If I was a builder (who was cutting corners) and inspectors came to inspect the foundation, walls, roofs, etc. If I was able to CONTROL everywhere they looked, then they wouldn't find any flaws with my work. It's the same here. Thai officialdom is continuing to control 100% of what the so-called 'observers' see and hear. It's a continuation of the frame-up of the Burmese scapegoats, nothing less.

Exactly. And what concerns me that any reasonable man-in-the-street would think the same. So why do the thai authorities still have their blinkers on? Because they couldn't care a toss about anyone outside their country.

Lump it or leave.

[phuketandsee]

We haven't heard much recently about the third DNA sample found on Hannah. JTJ, what are your friends doing about this? And how do you explain it?

[boomerangutang]

The brits are here. The burms are here. The truth has many eyes now.

There are many police who want this cleared too.

Stop complaining and give them all a chance. There comes a time when one must accept.

'The Brits are here' is supposed to instill confidence? Where were the Brits when Hong Kong was being handed over to China. By treaty, HK (the region southward from Boundary Road) should have stayed within the Commonwealth but the 'Pewter Lady' Marge Thatcher didn't hang tough.

RE; Ko Tao: if it comes down to hanging tough to see that justice is done verses allowing Thai officialdom to frame the Burmese men, Brit authorities will choose the latter. Diplomacy and 'not embarrassing one's host is more important than sticking up for justice.'

One end result: the true murderers/rapists will continue to hang out and party with our sisters and daughters.

[boomerangutang]

Why is it conspiracy theorists can't grasp the fact that these two admitted murdering rapists have lawyers who can run whatever DNA tests they want including getting the UK involved in the defense.

That would be because the only reliable DNA from the victims is in the UK, where the bodies were shipped.

So we would need someone from the UK to come to Thailand, take DNA samples from the accused, then return them to the UK for testing.

Nobody trusts the DNA samples held in Thailand to be 'original' or 'untampered'.

(except you apparently)

I agree with your closing sentence. As for JTJ, he's either naive to the 10th degree (to think that lawyers for the Burmese will able to do what lawyers are usually allowed to do), or he's in the hip pocket of Thai officialdom - or possibly buddies with the headman's people.

There have been assumptions that UK authorities harbor DNA samples from the crime victims. We don't really know. The bigger Q is IF they have samples, will they have the testicular fortitude to do independent testing of all suspects (including the headman's friends and family members) and release the findings to the public? If they don't do those things, then they are party to the cover-up.

All indications are the Brits WON'T BE ALLOWED to submit any independent data re; the crime. Thai officialdom has essentially said, "you can look over our shoulders, but don't tangibly interfere with the investigation. We have everything set-up the way we want it, the PM approves, and we don't want any outside data to derail our frame-up."

[Trouble]

It was reported that the advance testimony was supposed to be done today, Wednesday, yet now we are told it was done yesterday.

Were the lawyers present ?

If so were they allowed to cross examine the witnesses ? If not and the witnesses disappear before the trial (the reason given for early testimony was that the witnesses might leave the country) then there will be no chance to challenge their statements in court.

Were the accused present ? It was reported yesterday that they would be there to hear the testimony against them.

Will the witnesses statements be made public ?

All good points. In most countries the prosecutors and defense attorneys file advance motions and the judge sets a date for the trial to begin so that both sides have a chance to prepare. Testimony of witnesses has a chance to be challenged by cross-examination.

Exactly what kind of crazy legal system do they have in Thailand? It sounds like a complete farce. Of course we all know how the hi-so's and wealthy manipulate the system. They seem to never serve time even when convicted.

[jdinasia]

This is good news. Now British observers can examine first hand the DNA evidence and the circumstances surrounding the confessions. Can't wait to hear their report.

Did you read the article?

[jdinasia]

Why is it conspiracy theorists can't grasp the fact that these two admitted murdering rapists have lawyers who can run whatever DNA tests they want including getting the UK involved in the defense.

That would be because the only reliable DNA from the victims is in the UK, where the bodies were shipped.

So we would need someone from the UK to come to Thailand, take DNA samples from the accused, then return them to the UK for testing.

Nobody trusts the DNA samples held in Thailand to be 'original' or 'untampered'.

(except you apparently)

I agree with your closing sentence. As for JTJ, he's either naive to the 10th degree (to think that lawyers for the Burmese will able to do what lawyers are usually allowed to do), or he's in the hip pocket of Thai officialdom - or possibly buddies with the headman's people.

There have been assumptions that UK authorities harbor DNA samples from the crime victims. We don't really know. The bigger Q is IF they have samples, will they have the testicular fortitude to do independent testing of all suspects (including the headman's friends and family members) and release the findings to the public? If they don't do those things, then they are party to the cover-up.

All indications are the Brits WON'T BE ALLOWED to submit any independent data re; the crime. Thai officialdom has essentially said, "you can look over our shoulders, but don't tangibly interfere with the investigation. We have everything set-up the way we want it, the PM approves, and we don't want any outside data to derail our frame-up."

No that is not "essentially what they said" but thanks for the clear example of a straw man fallacy.

[greenchair]

So are the Brits here or not.

[MJP]

So are the Brits here or not.

Probably take a few months to sort the visas out.

[jdinasia]

Months? Do you mean hours?

[Mzungu]

At the end of the day, these guys are toast. The government will not allow themselves to get embarrassed in front of the world media. It just can't happen. The only chance they have is if they can get a private body to redo the tests after sentencing, with co-operation from the British government to get access to the victims DNA. At least they can then publish the results so the world knows the gov and police fabricated everything. Maybe then the world human rights and a few others will pull their finger out.

In a way, yes. It will be done Thai way irrespective how much we jump up and down or who is monitoring.

From one of the old prison stories I read, some rich and powerful guy in town killed somebody. Someone else was framed and jailed. That someone happens to be semi paralyzed and couldn't lift a spoon let alone a heavy hand gun. He was never at crime scene and never left his house.

Was he bitter about that? No. He felt he was a burden to his family that he couldn't contribute and payout was his share to the family. Apparently he was even treated better in prison than at home.

If two Myanmar guys are lucky, they might be released through back door and sent quietly back to home town and told never to return and keep the mouth shut. Possibly with some pocket money. Possibly contributed by some island family... If they are lucky.

Most likely we will never know the final outcome. It will be done Thai way.

[MJP]

Months? Do you mean hours?

I was kidding JD.

[bigjules007]

Does anyone know why the original lawyer for the Burmese has withdrawn his services?

[JohnThailandJohn]

Why is it conspiracy theorists can't grasp the fact that these two admitted murdering rapists have lawyers who can run whatever DNA tests they want including getting the UK involved in the defense.

Anyone that has spent enough time in Thailand knows exactly what is probably going down here. There are no conspiracy theories, just standard operating practice when involving the local constabulary and well connected persons. Scapegoats are found, preferably Burmese, convicted and then disappear, justice is done. Not that Thailand is the only country that has different laws for the rich, look at all the Banksters walking around free.

Agree 100% that the rich often get a different from of justice but in this case there is just overwhelming evidence against this guy and no reasonable reason to believe somebody else committed the crime especially the kid who was in Bangkok at the time of the murders.

Just because police don't share all the details doesn't mean what you don't know should be used to form a conspiracy. While you have people here who have wanted get people to send money to these suspects, you have another thread running now about the Train Killer talking about how they want to see blood... another case where DNA and confession and were conflicting reports were in the press and police made mistakes and a friend turned on the guilty party.

The difference here is a couple things ... police initially made a stupid comment about it being a foreigner and even worse saying something along the lines a Thai couldn't do this. My guess is the cop who said this had some info about the whole blonde hair thing at the scene and decided to use that info to not only form a conclusion but then to add the whole idiotic it couldn't be a Thai comment. Not only did this outrage foreigners but also smelled of a cover-up to pin this on a foreigner. Then they rightly interrogated the UK friend and saw him initially as a suspect ... further upsetting people.

Then of course it did turn out to be foreigners which seemed to confirm in some people's mind it was a cover up but what REALLY got the whole conspiracy thing going to the point of people not letting it go was the whole phone thing that all turned out to be BS. Then the conspiracy theories just got stupider because people couldn't get off that bandwagon as their mind was already set.

Of course the police have to take blame because there is a reason so many are angry and distrustful towards them. But where I can forgive them is that this is not a first world nation of well paid and organized officers who are experienced in keeping their mouth shut when it comes to releasing info. Any tidbits they released combined with translation and reporting issues just became fodder for conspiracy folks.

At some point though people have to realize, it looks like it did turn out to be foreigners in this case and they they likely are going to be pleading guilty just like the train killer.

You forgot to mention that the cops planted bloody shorts in the bag of the foreigner friend. Telling us that they are willing to plant evidence to get someone, anyone.

More nonsense. The pants you are talking about turned out not to even have blood on them, it was some other stain. But am sure in your mind the police planted shorts with a stain on them that wasn't blood.

I guess to continue with the conspiracy talk at this point one would have to ignore reality.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Why is it conspiracy theorists can't grasp the fact that these two admitted murdering rapists have lawyers who can run whatever DNA tests they want including getting the UK involved in the defense.

That would be because the only reliable DNA from the victims is in the UK, where the bodies were shipped.

So we would need someone from the UK to come to Thailand, take DNA samples from the accused, then return them to the UK for testing.

Nobody trusts the DNA samples held in Thailand to be 'original' or 'untampered'.

(except you apparently)

So, in your mind the police likely sent the body back to the UK with semen still in and on it even though they planned to use false DNA evidence.

I am trying to figure out how this would work too since the DNA collected at the scene was sent to multiple labs and likely Singapore who appears to have initially confirmed it came from an Asian(are they all in on the conspiracy too). There were multiple universities in Thailand with many many staff who were involved in comparing the DNA from the scene with those collected by police.

The two suspects are still around and there DNA can be drawn at any time by their legal team and compared with that collected at the scene and they can go to the labs, the universities as well as the UK (as you believe) to have their DNA compared again.

Will they do this, almost surely not because THE SUSPECTS CONFESSED and will almost surely be pleading guilty.

[denkiblue555]

[JohnThailandJohn]

The prosecution lawyer played the footage in which they went into a 7-Eleven shop at 11.10pm on September 14 and bought three bottles of beer. Maung Maung was seen on camera leaving the 7-Eleven to buy cigarettes from a nearby store at 11.12pm.

The three were later caught on another security camera leaving a soi in front of AC Bar, where the two victims were last seen before they were murdered. Zaw Lin was seen driving with Maung Maung and Win Zaw Htun riding pillion on the back of the same motorcycle. Win Zaw Htun carried a guitar.

Maung Maung said he and the two others drank beer and played guitar on Sairee beach that night, about 100 metres from the crime scene. He said he left the others once they finished the beer.

- See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/thais-agree-to-foreign-observers-in-koh-tao-murder-investigation-49138.php#sthash.t2CBlRkQ.dpuf

[englishoak]

Sondhi just blew the roof off everything